ESPN/AP:Williams, Saunders Dismissed-Byner Related News

[mcees4life]

amen to that.

amen to that again

[CommishDC]

We cheered for the TEAM because Jack Kent Cooke was also classy person

You don't cheer for Snyder's team. You cheer for your team. I didn't cheer for Marshall's, Williams', or Cooke's team. I don't cheer for Snyder's team. When he's gone the Redskins will remain.

[ECU-ALUM]

I not only liked Byner because he was a good coach and a link to the Glory Days...but hey the guy went to ECU as well.

God-Speed to you Coach Byner.

[DCsportsfan53]

We cheered for the TEAM because Jack Kent Cooke was also classy person

Not according to his former players......

Now we were eating lunch -- just me, May, Jacoby and Starke (Walker and Warren couldn't stay) -- at Alpine's Ristorante in Arlington. As I was mulling over this "Man, sports sucks now" stuff and having an epiphany, the Snyder conversation gave way to an extended discussion about Washington's legendary billionaire owner Jack Kent Cooke (by all accounts, a character straight out of the old TV show "Dynasty"). "He was so mean, he never even had anyone to eat with, much less be friends with," Starke said. "Just a mean, vindictive, evil person. If you played for the Redskins, he loved you. If you ever tried to cross him, he'd go out of his way to screw you."

Cooke was the kind of guy who fired an employee just because they accidentally parked in his parking space. And as the Hogs talked about him, that triggered an extended tale about how most of the Redskins received little performance bonuses ($100 for a sack, $100 for 100 yards rushing, etc.) except for the offensive lineman (whose contributions were much more difficult to quantify). Feeling a little underappreciated -- mainly because, as Starke said, "Dexter Manley would take 90 percent of the game off, fall into a sack and suddenly make himself $100" -- they decided to treat themselves to a lavish champagne/steak/lobster dinner at the Palm (a chic restaurant in D.C.). Of course, Starke made the mistake of signing Cooke's name to the check, nearly getting himself, Gibbs and Bugel fired in the process.

http://espn.go.com/page2/wash/s/simmons/020314.html

[Larry Brown #43]

If Byner goes, it will be a big loss. A good, smart coach and a GREAT person (yes, I have met him). When it became clear that GW wasn't getting the job, I began hoping that Byner would be considered for the HC position.

He's "welcome to return," but if he's talking with Tampa, that should give us an idea of how badly he wants to come back here.

But if I was Dan, and I read the stuff said every day on here the last five years, I'm not sure I'd give a flying **** with these yahoos thought, whether they were "right" about football or not. (putting myself in that place, if you follow me)

And the "good will" of who then? If not the media and not us, the league?

Jumbo, as to your question above...I would answer that Snyder should be concerned about his players and existing coaches. And I just get the feeling that a lot of them are hurt, upset and angry this morning. Partly because GW wasn't hired, but partly because of the way the whole mess went down.

[chipwhich]

If Byner goes, it will be a big loss.

We have been playing below .500 football for 4 years. Big loss?

[Larry Brown #43]

We have been playing below .500 football for 4 years. Big loss?

Great logic. I guess we should just release all the coaches and players then, since we've been playing below .500. By your logic, there is absolutely nothing on this team worth salvaging. Wow.

[toba347]

Well, at least Jumbo's still humble.

Personally, I'm on the record as saying it's not who we pick or don't pick that's upset me, it's the way it's been handled which, at least from all outward appearances, appears to have been in an unprofessional and disrespectful manner with regards to many of the coaches still on the payroll. That may just be me but that's what has had me up in arms, that and the seeming aimlessness of it. You just don't get the feeling they're going about this as effectively or competently as other teams around the league would, you know?

To the public it seems what you say is true but we do not know what Danny and Vinnie have communicated to the coaches "off the record". Lets see what happens and be patient with the process. Been a 'Skins fan since 1952 and have endured alot of change with several owners. patience is needed and we will be alright in the end.

[jnhay]

The whole 10 men on the field thing seems a little ridiculous to be true. Many, if not most of the fans wanted to see it while the team wanted to do it.

Maybe Snyder can be that ruthless and heartless considering the latest turn of events though?

We have been playing below .500 football for 4 years. Big loss?

A good coach is a good coach.

[chipwhich]

Great logic. I guess we should just release all the coaches and players then, since we've been playing below .500. By your logic, there is absolutely nothing on this team worth salvaging. Wow.

We have an old roster.

Our offense in the last 4 years has been almost putrid. There were a couple games I don't know if I have watched worse offensive production.

Our high priced bloated coaching staff didn't impress many people outside of Redskins country.

I don't know if Byner should remain or not. I do know our coaching ranks were a mess the last 4 years.

[JoeSkins]

Somthing smells real rotten in Denmark with the moves the Skins have made.

Something wicked this way comes...

[Stadium-Armory]

I've read conflicting things, in another thread here. Were they "released" (as in fired) or granted permission to pursue other opportunities?

[Skins-in-CT]

Good to know Coach Byner is welcome back. I sort of figured he might want out at this point.

The cynic in me says - it is good to know they want him back, but does HE want to return? And on top of that, although he is welcome, that doesn't necessarily mean they WANT him to come back. It sounds more indifferent to me than anything else. I suppose we will see how bad they want him during his contract negotiations. I for one would like to see him return.

[cjbrown]

I'm not so sure I believe williams was the right guy to succed Gibbs. He had the Arlington, and Pierce incidents. He allowed them to go on. He did not know or let continue the secondary not talking. He appeared to treat Arch. (sp?) badly. He is accused of being deceptive about Rodgers. We had so many 2nd half defensive failures. Our D- Line never was very strong in the pass rush. We almost always had worst defensive second halfs than first and he never appeared to make adjustments as well as Pedibone (sp?) (who was a master).

I for one welcome some change on both sides of the ball and yet some continuity. I would prefer Meeks to Fassel, but either may work.

Hopefully, Blanche is a bit more open and fairer with players. As far as players backing; they want success and fear change like anyone else. They don't want to move their families and possibly get pay cuts, so I take their backing with a "grain of salt."

Synder has been interviewing as many times as he needs to learn what he has to. He has only had to go through this process with Marty and Spurrier, so he should learn as much as he can interviewing as many people as possible while not loosing his candidates.

So even though I would like to know more and am not enamored with Fassel, Meeks presents to me a better history with winning organizations, and a fresh vision and drive to win that Fassel may lack.

But I think with blanch and Zorn we will be fine and if Fassel does not work, Zorn and/or Blanche may be able to continue after him.

So I think the process is going fairly well considering he was surprised with the news, and is making the best of a moderately bad situation.

[cjbrown]

PS - i WOULD LOVE bYNER BACK, HE AND pORTIS WORKED TOGETHER TO BE PRODUCTIVE AND REDUCE FUMBLE DESPITE THE LINE PROBLEMS.

[ThomasRoane]

Agreed, that detail on Byner is the first I have heard of it. I think of all the flailing and spazzing and how no matter who is named HC, Snyder will experience no boycott. People will not leave ES (unfortunately in many cases).

They haven't locked up Byner yet. But that would be a great move for the team and it's fans. The RB's play tough for him and do a lot of the dirty work most backs won't. And I'll hang around to poke sticks into danny's eye if he hires Fizzle. Now, if he were to do the smart thing and go with Grimm then I will reserve judgement. We KNOW that Fizzle is a has been (since no one but us even cares about hiring him). Grimm could be a bust but could be a Jack Del Rio.

A new Zorn will be more productive with JC than a 2nd year of Al with JC.

We know JC played some WCO at Auburn. But what about his team mates? Cooley and the receiving corps? He has to have someone who knows the system as well as he does. Otherwise, he'll be dropping balls in places that receivers aren't going to be. That's IF Zorn can teach him to put more touch on the ball. Just look at how much more productive the swing pass to RB's was with TC as compared to JC.

Blache will retain many of the strengths of the D and maybe jettison some weaknesses.

Hopefully, they are grooming KO to be the man for the future.

Eventually, this same board will be pointing out how the new staff will likely be an improvement--no longer too many chiefs and no more 700 page playbooks. People will remember how critical they were of our last HC most of the time, and the downside of the last four seasons. They'll start to accept the new guy and get excited about the future and the draft and our existing young talent.

Don't think for a second that many of us who appreciated Gibbs and took a lot of crap for it won't heap some back on the people who are already fawning over Fizzle.

But whether you call what transpires here on EmoteSkins venting or simply unleashing your inner drama queen, the ES staff will remain ever-present to guide you through it all, like beacons of reason and stability in the frightful and tumultuous night.

Ranting and raving here does help to relieve the stress. I know my dog appreciates the outlet

[King Rhabuf]

DC, to them it may not seem the grief some of us think it should be. Dan has given evidence that he's not too worried what the media think. ES often does the same. Many here say Dan could give a **** about the fans all season long. Maybe yes maybe no. But if I was Dan, and I read the stuff said every day on here the last five years, I'm not sure I'd give a flying **** with these yahoos thought, whether they were "right" about football or not. (putting myself in that place, if you follow me)

And the "good will" of who then? If not the media and not us, the league?

I don't think Dan's likely to be callously unconcerned with all these things, but if he was would it be wierd? If he was as callous towards us as we are to him, would that be wierd?

So maybe the things he's troubled by are entirely different from the things we think should be troubling him.

What the hell are you talking about? All your posts are are a mess.

[bulldog]

the process is important because it does in fact have an impact on the candidates that this team may target.

not everyone is so enamored with Snyder's dollar bills that they are going to come here if the perception is it's a return to the Zoo mentality of a few years ago.

in fact the BEST candidates whether for HC or the best players available in FA will likely pass this team by if that perception becomes the reality for them.

[vacanechaser]

Unless of course, the spiteful **** takes us all with him.......

lol... thats a good one... looks like "24" ... you know, it really looks like thats what he is trying to do... i just dont know anymore...

[ManleyMann7271]

Saunders needed to go and take that never has been QB with him. And Williams had to go if he did not get the HC job, which he obviously did not. I will not shed a tear or lose any sleep for either of those guys.

[SearchHorizon]

I think of all the flailing and spazzing and how no matter who is named HC, Snyder will experience no boycott. People will not leave ES (unfortunately in many cases). Most of the specific positions taken about what will happen with various upcoming changes will turn out to be misinformed or just wrong. Continuity will be arguably maintained. A new Zorn will be more productive with JC than a 2nd year of Al with JC. Blache will retain many of the strengths of the D and maybe jettison some weaknesses.

Eventually, this same board will be pointing out how the new staff will likely be an improvement--no longer too many chiefs and no more 700 page playbooks. People will remember how critical they were of our last HC most of the time, and the downside of the last four seasons. They'll start to accept the new guy and get excited about the future and the draft and our existing young talent.

Things can unfold as described. Chances are pretty slim, though.

[Gregpeck99]

Snyder realized his worst nightmare ... if I bring Gibbs back ... what if he falls on his face? Of course, this is what happened ... I give Snyder applause for biting the bullet and making the necessary corrective moves. The process of cutting out the deseased tissue may be painful ... but it is not disrespecful as many of the posters on this Board have stated. Jumbo is right: In a few very short months, after FA and the Draft ... Skins mania will default to its normal optimistic self and all the whining (trans: resistance to change) will be a distant memory.

[fpickering]

But if I was Dan, and I read the stuff said every day on here the last five years, I'm not sure I'd give a flying **** with these yahoos thought, whether they were "right" about football or not. (putting myself in that place, if you follow me)

I don't know how Snyder feels but he absolutely should be concerned with the thoughts and feelings of his customers. The fact is, he has not been a successful owner. He has gone against the grain to a fault and continues to do so. I have always given him the benefit of the doubt and remained on his side but after this botched coaching search, I am beginning to grow sour on him.

This is not rocket science and it is baffling to me considering that a proven methodology exists. Hire a GM, the GM hires a head coach and the head coach goes out and hires a staff that he can work well with and whose philosophies are a a good fit.

Or, we can continue with the current dysfunctional organization where a group of people in undefined roles come together and make decisions that they are not qualified to make.

[Peregrine]

Being serious, DC, I think it was handled in much the way Hannibal Lector would handle performing a liver transplant.

But I agreed with VGJ in the "the latest" thread, that such a cluster **** is becoming de rigeur in the league lately.

I add that regarding plans for next year, I believe it likely that Gibbs departure left major turbulence for everyone's paper airplane.

That said, a top notch executive should be cool and steady under crisis and project control in my model. But it would be appropropriate to point out that while I am very competent in my chosen fields to date, my model has left me somewhat shy of semi-billionaire status. So, yes, I am humble.

True, I think Snyder's kind of thinking does permeate a bit around the league, and has in recent years. However, I think we saw through this process that many teams are taking just the opposite approach. How many teams denied us access to personel, because they were grooming that person from within the organization, for HC and coordinator jobs in the future? I know there were a lot of them. The good organizations have succession plans, and dont go searching far and wide for replacements, once the HC leaves. They already have them on staff, and they make every effort to ensure it stays that way. Its something we might want to start thinking about... homegrown talent and a succession plan, rather than this fiasco.

[Jumbo]

We cheered for the TEAM because Jack Kent Cooke was also classy person

I was illustrating that the perspective that when you root for a team you are including the owner was a choice, not a given. You are free to make your own choice, Commish. As to Cooke, not everyone thought he was "classy" in his day, either.

Not according to his former players......

http://espn.go.com/page2/wash/s/simmons/020314.html

Ah, one example, thank you, DC, I have heard more. I had no problem with Cooke when rooting for the Redskins, either. My feelings about Dan have varied between very positive and fairly negative, but they never limited me in rooting for the Redskins come gametime.

If Byner goes, it will be a big loss. A good, smart coach and a GREAT person (yes, I have met him). <edited>

Jumbo, as to your question above...I would answer that Snyder should be concerned about his players and existing coaches. And I just get the feeling that a lot of them are hurt, upset and angry this morning. Partly because GW wasn't hired, but partly because of the way the whole mess went down.

I would miss Byner as well, but like the idea of his moving up career-wise if the opportunity is there for him. I agree with you about the players--it's a good point and whatever the real story behind how all this unfolded, Dan needs to hope, and should be focusing on, smoothing that dynamic out.

Several articles have mentioned some particulars on the GW side that may help, and I allow for the fact that many of the players have been around and if they're still getting paid will make their own adjustments, but with this group I think it will be trickier than most.

If it is Fassel, a lot will be riding on his reported people skills, if it is someone esle, we will just have to hope they bring something to the table in way of work structure and atmosphere that shifts things away from disturbed feelings. The thing is, even with what we have had in plaxce the last four years, it seems we have had as much player/organization turmoil half the time, as if we were changing everything every year (we kinda were in ways).

Aside the team's abilitry to regularly rally around some crisis-environment, there has been a fair degree of reported coach/player, coach/coach, player/player, and owner/anyone discord as a regular feature off season and during the season since Gibbs returned (not a Gibbs criticism, just using him as the most relevant time-marker).

So this may bring some more of the same, or worse, or who knows, but it does matter. :laugh: