jivelikenice Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Going back to 2002 here are the number of takeaways that Gregg Williams defenses have caused: 2007- 24 2006- 12 2005- 22 2004- 26 2003- 18 2002- 19 Avg:20.1 Its not an aberration for his teams to struggle creating turnovers, its what his defenses do. They don't create turnovers and his teams will always struggle in the +/- turnover category. Here's what Rex Ryan has done in 3 seasons with B-More Rex Ryan 2007- 23 2006- 37 2005- 23 Avg: 27.6 Rex has had three top 6 defenses in three season and on another note, he might actually know the importance of a pass rushing line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0mega Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Going back to 2002 here are the number of takeaways that Gregg Williams defenses have caused:2007- 24 2006- 12 2005- 22 2004- 26 2003- 18 2002- 19 Avg:20.1 Its not an aberration for his teams to struggle creating turnovers, its what his defenses do. They don't create turnovers and his teams will always struggle in the +/- turnover category. Here's what Rex Ryan has done in 3 seasons with B-More Rex Ryan 2007- 23 2006- 37 2005- 23 Avg: 27.6 Rex has had three top 6 defenses in three season and on another note, he might actually know the importance of a pass rushing line. We don't have the personnel that Baltimore has. Look at their front four: Pryce/Gregg/Ngata/Suggs Pryce still plays at a PB level. Gregg is probably the most underated DT in the NFL. Ngata is a straight up monster. Suggs is an all-pro. Now look at our front 4. Rex Ryan is not going to happen. He's expected to stay on as DC in Baltimore if he doesn't get the HC gig in ATL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf85 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 We don't have the personnel that Baltimore has. Look at their front four:Pryce/Gregg/Ngata/Suggs Pryce still plays at a PB level. Gregg is probably the most underated DT in the NFL. Ngata is a straight up monster. Suggs is an all-pro. Now look at our front 4. Rex Ryan is not going to happen. He's expected to stay on as DC in Baltimore if he doesn't get the HC gig in ATL. Lets not forget they also had Adalius Thomas two of those three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0mega Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Lets not forget they also had Adalius Thomas two of those three years. And what has Thomas done with the Pats? Nothing. The man has completely disappeared. Meamwhile Jarrett Johnson has filled in very well in his stead. I like Rex Ryan, and I love his style of defense (as opposed to Williams), but bringing him in would mean starting from scratch on the defensive side of the ball. I'm not hot for the idea of rebuilding, when we appear to already have a capable coach waiting, with a team (defense) he's already BUILT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Rex Ryan has had some much better players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEavyJumbo85 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Here's what Rex Ryan has done in 3 seasons with B-More Rex Ryan 2007- 23 2006- 37 2005- 23 Avg: 27.6 Rex has had three top 6 defenses in three season and on another note, he might actually know the importance of a pass rushing line. Give me Baltimore's turnover statistics the last 7 years. It comes down to personell, the ravens have had a great defense for 8-9 years now, anycoordinator would look great with those guys. Heck, Mike freakin Nolan(the guy that coached our 30th ranked defense in 99) had Baltimore at the top of the league every year that he was the coordinator there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantor Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Turnovers don't tell the whole story. The Ravens defense got their ass kicked many games this season by average offenses. Our defense was competitive throughout the season against much better teams and only got whooped once, mainly because it was on the field for 40+ minutes. You might also want to consider strength of schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jivelikenice Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 You can argue that the Ravens have had better talent but where have we spent all of our dollars and draft picks recently; THE DEFENSE!!! GW's philosophy is to build the back 7. I would be thrilled to have a defensive coordinator in here who might actually realize that the front four also matters. In addition, you can argue the talent level between the Ravens D and the Skins D (although the Skins D had 5 top 10 picks on it at one point), but you can't argue with Gregg Williams long track record of defenses that can't produce turnovers. The stats bear out that this has been a constant under his defenses. No matter how great you think he or this defense has been, you can't be a great defense if you can't create turnovers. The great defenses are defenses that get their hands on the ball and even put some points up. That has never been a characteristic of a Gregg Williams defense in DC or in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamcal00 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Well...if you add the drops Carlos Rogers had each of the last 3 years, Williams defensive takeaways would have averaged 25-26. Just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel2 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Going back to 2002 here are the number of takeaways that Gregg Williams defenses have caused:2007- 24 2006- 12 2005- 22 2004- 26 2003- 18 2002- 19 Avg:20.1 Its not an aberration for his teams to struggle creating turnovers, its what his defenses do. They don't create turnovers and his teams will always struggle in the +/- turnover category. Here's what Rex Ryan has done in 3 seasons with B-More Rex Ryan 2007- 23 2006- 37 2005- 23 Avg: 27.6 Rex has had three top 6 defenses in three season and on another note, he might actually know the importance of a pass rushing line. So, what's your point? Williams' defenses on the whole have faired well considering they didn't have the personel that Ryan's defense had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustinwhylee Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 You can argue that the Ravens have had better talent but where have we spent all of our dollars and draft picks recently; THE DEFENSE!!!GW's philosophy is to build the back 7. I would be thrilled to have a defensive coordinator in here who might actually realize that the front four also matters. In addition, you can argue the talent level between the Ravens D and the Skins D (although the Skins D had 5 top 10 picks on it at one point), but you can't argue with Gregg Williams long track record of defenses that can't produce turnovers. The stats bear out that this has been a constant under his defenses. No matter how great you think he or this defense has been, you can't be a great defense if you can't create turnovers. The great defenses are defenses that get their hands on the ball and even put some points up. That has never been a characteristic of a Gregg Williams defense in DC or in Buffalo. I was actually going to bring this point up but you covered it pretty well. Someone stated that the Ravens' front four were monsterous. Well, we could have a monstrous front four as well had Gregg ever decided to draft a pass rushing defensive lineman and a huge DT that will collapse the pocket. Rather, we draft two DTs late in the rounds, sign Andre Carter who's coming into form at his 3rd (?) year... and we're still starting Phillip Daniels who is fine against the rush but that's about it. Though, Williams made Archie the richest safety (at the time) only to bench him in his first year with the Redskins and release him the following year (great on cap btw), drafted two safeties with first rounders (though these two weren't wasted at least), drafted Carlos-no-hands and often injured with another 1st rounder, and signed Springs who's often injured as well and is hit or miss (performance-wise) on game day. Williams seems perplexed by the fact that his DBs are looking bad but he doesn't address the fact that they're stranded way too long with the QB chilling in the pocket, never to be knocked down or even flushed out of the pocket. Instead, he makes Landry play center field (which isn't horrible but it gives up the short passing lanes, especially with the space our CBs give opposing WRs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 My worry with Gregg is that his defense always seems to do much worse in the second half. It was excuseable in 2005 when we were the king's of 3 and outs, but this year and even last year we were around middle of the pack on offense. William's D is just not that good at getting stops when they're needed. More, if the Redskins have a 5 point lead with 2 minutes on the board and the opponents have the ball... do you really trust him? How often has he given up the game ending drive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raub Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 mainly because it was on the field for 40+ minutes. Which is a product of playing that crappy "bend but don't break, then bend some more, and some more" defense that Williams loves. No pass rush, 10 yard CB cushions, and giving up 3rd and longs like they're 3rd and inches will keep your defense out there for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan31 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Well...if you add the drops Carlos Rogers had each of the last 3 years, Williams defensive takeaways would have averaged 25-26. Just sayin. great point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bu7ch Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Here's what Rex Ryan has done in 3 seasons with B-More Rex Ryan 2007- 23 2006- 37 2005- 23 Avg: 27.6 Rex has had three top 6 defenses in three season and on another note, he might actually know the importance of a pass rushing line. That average is really skewed with one good year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 If you throw out the high and the low there isn't a lot of difference between the two, so Why switch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyKilmer Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 sign Andre Carter who's coming into form at his 3rd (?) year... ). Second year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piledriven Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 What are you smoking man? And what is your point?? Williams is a spectacular coach and the players WANT HIM HERE! What more could you ask for? He is a great fit for success...a very structured coach and the players LOVE him! Why go ANYWHERE else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I agree, GW has always really struggled to create turnovers, and that in my opinion is far more important than allowing yards. I would like to have Rex Ryan here, but Im just not a fan of how things are being done right now. You can talk and talk about the Ravens personel is superior in that front 7(particularly front 4), but theres a reason for that. They drafted those guys, and we chose to draft DB's. How many 1st round draft picks have we used the past 7 years on DB's? Taylor, Landry, Rogers, is the way we went instead of drafting any DLinemen. Yes, Baltimore has the talent we dont have, because WE decided against drafting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
box8276 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Go find another DC that took a horrible D 27th or worse and turned them into top ten 3 out of 4 years. Its GW that turned the Skins around. Take the blinders off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raub Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Go find another DC that took a horrible D 27th or worse and turned them into top ten 3 out of 4 years. Its GW that turned the Skins around. Take the blinders off. Our defense was 5th in 2002, 10th in 2001, and 4th in 2000. He didn't have far to go. Yes, it was bad in 2003....just like it was bad last year...when he was the DC. Everyone thinking he performed some miracle really needs to "take the blinders off." Our defense was just as good before he got here, minus the one bad year in 2003....and with 3 different coordinators. He hasn't done anything unique or awe-inspiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDALERT Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 My worry with Gregg is that his defense always seems to do much worse in the second half. It was excuseable in 2005 when we were the king's of 3 and outs, but this year and even last year we were around middle of the pack on offense. William's D is just not that good at getting stops when they're needed.More, if the Redskins have a 5 point lead with 2 minutes on the board and the opponents have the ball... do you really trust him? How often has he given up the game ending drive? BINGO, Williams is stuck on building from the outs in, not from the trenches. And to add insult to injury, I read somewhere he would draft a CB first this year if given the opportunity. Burgold makes a good point in saying..do you really trust him, I certainly don't and never have. Sure, we've had some good defenses. But IMO, it all comes down to coaching and knowing how to dismantle a GW ran defense and the good coaches that no X's and O's did (See Patriots game). Yes the patriots game and I don't wanna hear the Patyriots dismantled everybody. They didn't just dismantle us, they made us look like a high school team and GW sat on the sidelines clueless. The first Cowboys game. The entire game we shut the boys down playing man-to-man. But 2nd half GW decides to start playing cover2 and we know how that ended. On many occassions GW was just out coached and never seem to have an answer or make proper adjustment. Ok, sometimes he decides to blitz and this seems to help. But for the life of me if you have no front for that can constantly apply pressure or accumulate sacks, why stick to a cover2 scheme when blitzing is your strong point? I'm not saying that Fassell is the answer in no shape or form. But IMO neither is GW. Forget the emotinal hype and all the player/coaches feelings. We need a adequate coach that know young talent and can adjust during game time along with recognizing descent coaching assistants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruggala Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Gregg Williams is 17-31 as a Head Coach. Why does everyone think he is the answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinem Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I keep hearing the players love him, and I wonder how much that has to do with coaching and how much that has to do with the ST situation, considering the fact that bad mouthing the current DC when you had to really bond as an organization due to crisis is not viewed as such a hot idea and you might still have to play for him, "might". I remember not to long ago when he was not so beloved with the players, during situations like Lavar, Antionio Pierce and Ryan Clark to name a few which seperated the locker room. When he left Buffalo I heard comments like the players really disliked his "scheme" talk over talent. Overall he has done a decent job but I'm just not buying the mumbo, I like Ryans Intensity. I'm cool with the change if it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dictator Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Turnovers don't tell the whole story. The Ravens defense got their ass kicked many games this season by average offenses. Kicked? that might be too strong a word. They were missing their two starting CB's for a majority of the season. Plus Trevor Pryce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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