(Long) Draft Pics Are Most Important Part of Building a Team

[JRAB]

Drafting is so important to a football team, even in the time of free agency... maybe moreso because of the salary cap.

We have almost all our picks this year and I hope Snyder continues to keep all or almost all our picks.

Just look at the #1 playoff seed in the AFC and the NFC and you can determine just how important drafting is in becoming a good team. Both New England and Dallas has hit on early, mid and late round picks. Both have stockpiled picks, not trading many, and both have had young, good, cheap talent because of it.

In looking at both team's drafts in the last 5 years, I listed any player that is still currently on their roster or players that left in free agency or trade (Deion Branch for example).

New England:

It's easy to see why New England has become a dominant team when looking at some of their recent drafts:

2006 - 2002 drafts:

* = This Years Pro Bowl

1. RB Laurence Maroney 2006 1st

2. K Stephen Gostkowski 2006 4th

3. G Logan Mankins 2005 1st *

4. CB Ellis Hobbs 2005 3rd

5. OT Nick Kaczur 2005 3rd

6. QB Matt Cassel 2005 7th

7. DT Vince Wilfork 2004 1st *

8. TE Ben Watson 2004 1st

9. DE Marquise Hill 2004 2nd (deceased)

10. DE Ty Warren 2003 1st

11. FS Eugene Wilson 2003 2nd

12. DT Dan Kleco 2003 4th

13. CB Asante Samuel 2003 4th *

14. C Dan Koppen 2003 5th *

15. LB Tully Banta-Cain 2003 7th

16. TE Dan Graham 2002 1st

17. WR Deion Branch 2002 2nd

18. DE Jarvis Green 2002 4th

Note: The prior two drafts they got Richard Seymore and Tom Brady. That is quite a run of good drafting there. That is the foundation or their 16-0 team this year.

That is 18 players that stuck and many of them are starters or key reserves.

The Tally:

4 of the 18 are in this year's Pro Bowl.

11 of the 18 are starters.

1 is a key reserve.

for 12 key contributors to the #1 playoff seed in the AFC.

9 of the 18 are what I would consider to be top 10 at their position.

In this year's draft, they had 3 of 9 drafted players make their roster. None of those three became starters but Meriweather has played a decent amount. Ironically, Justin Rogers, drafted in the 6th round this year was put on the practice squad and signed by Dallas to their active roster... so you could say that 4 draft picks made NFL rosters.

Dallas:

Surprisingly, Dallas had about as good a draft run in that time as New England did, if not better.

2006 - 2002 drafts:

* = This Years Pro Bowl

1. LB Bobby Carpenter 2006 1st

2. TE Anthony Fasano 2006 2nd

3. DE Jason Hatcher 2006 3rd

4. FS Pat Watkins 2006 5th

5. OT Pat McQuistan 2006 7th

6. LB DeMarcus Ware 2005 1st *

7. DE Marcus Spears 2005 1st

8. LB Kevin Burnett 2005 2nd

9. RB Marion Barber 2005 4th *

10. DE Chris Canty 2005 4th

11. NT Jay Ratliff 2005 7th

12. RB Julius Jones 2004 2nd

13. OG Stephen Peterman 2004 3rd

14. CB Nate Jones 2004 7th

15. WR Patrick Crayton 2004 7th

16. CB Jacques Reeves 2004 7th

17. CB Terence Newman 2003 1st *

18. C Al Johnson 2003 2nd

19. TE Jason Witten 2003 3rd *

20. LB Bradie James 2003 4th

21. S Roy Williams 2002 1st *

22. C Andre Gurode 2002 2nd *

Note: In 2003 they also picked up Tony Romo sits to pee as an UDFA.

That is 22 players that stuck and many of them are starters or key reserves.

The Tally:

6 of the 22 are in this year's Pro Bowl.

11 of the 22 are starters.

7 are key reserves.

for 18 key contributors to the #1 playoff seed in the NFC.

9 of the 22 are what I would consider to be top 10 at their position.

In this year's draft they had 8 of 8 drafted players make their roster. Three of those 8 became starters. OLB Anthony Spencer (although he now is a highly used reserve behind Greg Ellis), K Nick Folk and FB Dieon Anderson before he went on injured reserve. Dallas also signed the 6th round pick of the New England Patriots off of NE's practice squad... so they had 9 draft picks make their active roster.

A very good draft again for Dallas.

On the other hand, from our last 5 drafts, here are the players that were keepers:

Washington:

* = This year's Pro Bowl

1. LB Rocky McIntosh 2006 1st

2. DT Anthony Montgomery 2006 5th

3. S Reed Doughty 2006 6th

4. DT Kedric Golston 2006 6th

5. CB Carlos Rogers 2005 1st

6. QB Jason Campbell 2005 1st

7. RB Nehemiah Broughton 2005 7th

8. S Sean Taylor 2004 1st *

9. TE Chris Cooley 2004 3rd *

10. OG Derrick Dockery 2003 3rd

11. QB Patrick Ramsey 2002 1st

12. RB Ladell Betts 2002 2nd

13. TE Robert Royal 2002 5th

14. RB Rock Cartwright 2002 7th

That is 14 players that stuck. Only one of them (Sean Taylor) made this years pro bowl. Edit: How did I miss Cooley? *Sorry, it was late* :doh:

The Tally:

2 of the 14 are in this year's Pro Bowl.

6 of the 14 are starters.

2 are key reserves.

for 8 key contributors to the #6 playoff seed in the NFC.

3 of the 14 are what I would consider to be top 10 at their position.

So... over the same period of time:

Draft picks that stuck:

New England - 18

Dallas - 22

Washington - 14

Not too bad for us. But...

How many are starters?

New England - 11

Dallas - 11

Washington - 6

Roughly half as many starters from 2002 - 2006

How many are key reserves?

New England - 1

Dallas - 7

Washington - 2

So, how many key contributors (starters + key reserves) came out of 2002 - 2006 for these teams?

New England - 12

Dallas - 18

Washington - 8

And finally...

How many are top ten talent at their positions?

New England - 9

Dallas - 9

Washington - 3

Now, this is far from scientific but it does illustrate how we're behind the top teams in terms of number of picks and the benefits (good players) that come from having full drafts and picking wisely.

My top ten players are subjective but I did try to be fair when choosing who I thought was a top 10 player and who wasn't. And the results aren't pretty for us. Both NE and Dallas got two-thirds more top ten type players than we did in the same number of drafts. Those are the types of players that make a difference and they both found three times as many as we did.

We didn't fare too badly in the number of picks that made the cut... particularly considering we had fewer picks to begin with than them... but in the case of both NE and Dallas, making their rosters was considerably more difficult. Particularly NE's.

The number of starters and picks that made the squad doesn't look that bad but when you look at the players themselves, you see that players who made our roster and became starters likely wouldn't have made those rosters... or if they did, might not have become starters like they did in Washington.

For instance, Montgomery and Campbell both wouldn't be starting for either one of those teams, yet they're listed as starters here. Looking at the DL rosters for those two teams, it is easy to see that Montgomery wouldn't have even made it on the roster... and he's a starter here.

McIntosh probably wouldn't start for either team but that's more because he doesn't fit their system as well as he does our 4-3. He's a good player for us but wouldn't start in either NE or Dallas.

Looking at it this way, it's easy to see that we need to not only be stingy with our picks... but we need to use the picks wisely. Having a good pro personnel department is one of the key ingredients to a successful franchise and I hope Snyder really looks hard at how we've been running things there and makes some adjustments. If not in the people doing it, then at least in how the people we have approach things.

Good young players reinvigorate a roster, cost less, and really help when the inevitable injuries start to happen. Plus, you just never know when you might hit on a mid to lower round pick. Look at Tom Brady and Romo sits to pee (free agent). Look at Kaczur, Hobbs and Samuel for NE. Look at Barber, Canty, Ratliff and Crayton for Dallas. Those are very key players for those teams and they came in the 4th or later.

Having a lot of picks is critical for many reasons... and now is the time for us to start re-stocking our roster with good, solid players from full drafts. I really hope Snyder holds the course and keeps all our picks from now on. It could make our team... just like it can break it if he doesn't.

[Shilsu]

Amazingly enough, when we did draft, we seemed to draft great players. Yet we still threw away draft picks for Brandon Lloyd and TJ Duckett. Thankfully, this upcoming draft is intact minus one or two late round picks.

[SkinSabbath]

WOW IMPRESSIVE RESEARCH DUDE

I agree that the draft is crucial to building a team... HOWEVER, I also point out that the Redskins MOST SUCCESSFUL ERA (IMO between 1969 and 1990) They only had 3 first round picks in a 23-year span...

Granted, those 3 picks were Art Monk, Mark May, and Darrell Green... (So we did pretty well anyways), But we built successful teams without the draft...

See for yourself: http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/teambyteam?team=Washington+Redskins

[RedskinsSuperBowl21]

If we had more of those pics we would have had drafts almost in the same ballpark as them.

[illone]

Good draft picks are the most important part of building a team;).

[Oldfan]

WOW IMPRESSIVE RESEARCH DUDE

I agree that the draft is crucial to building a team... HOWEVER, I also point out that the Redskins MOST SUCCESSFUL ERA (IMO between 1969 and 1990) They only had 3 first round picks in a 23-year span...

Granted, those 3 picks were Art Monk, Mark May, and Darrell Green... (So we did pretty well anyways), But we built successful teams without the draft...

See for yourself: http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/teambyteam?team=Washington+Redskins

George Allen traded away draft picks for veterans. His teams won games but never seriously challenged for a Superbowl. In the 1972 loss to Miami, our offense never crossed the 50 yard line. Our only score was the Mike Bass interception of Garo Yepremian's (sp) stupid pass attempt. When his key players aged and his string ran out George left town and left the cupboard bare.

Bobby Beathard built the team with draft choices. The 1981 draft was huge. It produced six starters, including May, Grimm and added Joe Jacoby out of free agency. It was only after the team had a grade A roster that Beathard traded their #1 pick for veterans who could fill gaps. We kept 11 of 12 picks in those years.

[Oldfan]

Back in January of 2007, I did a study and published it here.

Drew Brees, Lorenzo Neal, Champ Bailey, Steve Hutchinson......only four of the 56 players selected to the 2006 All-Pro Team were not drafted by their current team.

I think this stat not only shows that the draft is the best way to acquire talent, but it also shows that teams can hold onto their best talent even in this era of free agency.

[redskins59]

I see only three guys on the Cowboys roster that are really top 10: Terrence Newman, Demarcus Ware and Tony Romo sits to pee(who could be a one hit wonder). Marion Barber is just not good. He gets most of his yards in garbage time when the other team's defense is already tired. Guys like Carpenter(first round), Marcus Spears(first round) have been mediocre at best. And guess what, they're both first round picks. However, I agree that we should focus on drafting quality players. Also, you don't really know how Montgomery would perform at Dallas. Ratliff their NT was a 7th round pick. Montgomery has been solid for us. Golston is pretty solid too. Don't be surprised if we cut Griffin this year. Our 2006 draft was pretty solid: McIntosh(who is 100% starter material. He's a great linebacker), Montgomery, Doughty(who is pretty good), Golston. Let's all remember that our defense is in the top 10, and all these guys contributed for us.

Also, 2007 was good too. Now, many of them were free agents even though they are young. We acquired Laron Landry(he'll be a top 5 if not the best player in the future),HB Blades, Heyer, Lorenzo Alexander, Wilson, etc.

[redfreak57]

need to put a * by Cooley's name and take one away from Lawurence Maroney, but otherwise I couldn't agree more that the draft is where it is at for talent

[JRAB]

need to put a * by Cooley's name and take one away from Lawurence Maroney, but otherwise I couldn't agree more that the draft is where it is at for talent

Done. I don't know htf I did that... other than it was pretty late and I was tired. I had initially started doing (*) for starter and (**) for this years pro bowl... so I guess I just missed it in the editing.

Thanks for the correction.

[Skinsfor4]

Apparently we pick good players when we actually have picks to do so with.This years draft could help us reach the next level if we dont trade em away to overpay(pretty good rhyme too)another teams star.

[the krabber]

WOW IMPRESSIVE RESEARCH DUDE

I agree that the draft is crucial to building a team... HOWEVER, I also point out that the Redskins MOST SUCCESSFUL ERA (IMO between 1969 and 1990) They only had 3 first round picks in a 23-year span...

Granted, those 3 picks were Art Monk, Mark May, and Darrell Green... (So we did pretty well anyways), But we built successful teams without the draft...

See for yourself: http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/teambyteam?team=Washington+Redskins

One critical thing you must remember about that, though, is that was before the salary cap. The draft is more important now than it was then, because now you have to keep your salary under a specific number. Draft choices (especially good finds in the lower rounds), help you get players who can contribute, but won't put a strain on your salary number. Free Agents can kill your salary.

[skinfan2k]

The Colts 22 starters have never played for a different team.

Randy Moss would have never worked in DC, because of the structure in place.

It starts from the top and goes to the coaches

When you have a coach who is also team president, there are conflicting views on what to do. A coach wants to win now while a GM looks to the health of the franchise. Gibbs was both.

I am not sure what we are going to have in the future, but i believe that a full draft both this year and next year will help us immensely because we usually get correct our top picks

[CRobi21]

So what your saying is we should keep our draft picks from now on?

[bulldog]

the Redskins 1981 draft was one of the best in NFL history and set the team up for the 1980's. don't let the lack of #1 picks in the decade fool you, Beathard built this team on draft picks and undrafted FAs. he then supplemented with the vets coming out of the WFL (Williams, Clark, Sanders, Bryant).

Monk, Grimm, Green, Mann, Manley, etc. were all Redskins draft picks.

this organization could have found MUCH better players than Archuleta, Lloyd and others in the DRAFT if they had the patience to keep the picks.

in the case of Duckett, the Redskins could have used that #3 pick to find a real nice younger tailback or wide receiver who right now would be pushing guys for time on the field.

instead we have NOTHING to show for those moves.

[CapitalDefense]

So what your saying is we should keep our draft picks from now on?

I think you are on to something.....

[CRobi21]

I think you are on to something.....

I really know how to read between the lines. Unlike some people.

:cool:

[tml6157]

Why i do think the draft is important, its just as important as free agency. It comes down to being smart with who you go after in FA verses who your drafting. Take a look at our last FA spending spree:

Andre Carter - had a down year the previous year and was playing OLB in a 3-4 scheme. He had played well in a 4-3 but we were unsure how he would transition back.

Adam Archuleta - workout warrior. Played very well against the run at the LOS but was very lacking in coverage. we knew GW would have to use him right.

Antwaan Randle El - was not a #1 WR. Great PR ability but he was a #3 or maybe even #2 WR but thats pushing it

Brandon Lloyd - Was making great catches but was known to disappear sometimes and be a total non factor

Christian Fauia - he was old and a backup in NE. we weren't getting anything other then a blocking TE and he wasn't that great at it either.

now compare those names to lets say:

TO, Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Lance Briggs, Asante Samuel, Terrell Suggs, Nnamdi Asomugha, Marcus Trufant, Jared Allen, Julius Peppers.

These guys are playmakers. pure grade A NFL talent. Not question marks like we bought with our last FA spending spree.

My point is that for example Chad Johnson wants out of Cincy. We all hate trading draft picks and spending big money on FAs but our mistakes in the past have been that we do it for suspect players. not playmakers. you have to make a move to get a talent like Chad. sure he can be ****y but im tired of being a 9-7 team with players who drop balls constantly or dont even wanna play. im tired of seeing us struggle but having a locker room full of guys who like to go to eat together. team chemistry is important but not the most important thing. it comes down to pure talent. If we are winning no one is gonna be mad if we dont have the BEST of character guys in the locker room. Its time for money to be spent on the right kind of players. ones who are going to play and play well, not suspect question mark players. I'm not saying that Carter and Randle El didnt work out for us because they did. But look at what we lost with Archuleta and Lloyd. Huge money and they were and are god awful for us. Id rather spend it on players who we all KNOW can perform. ex. Johnson, Moss, TO.

[HEavyJumbo85]

But we built successful teams without the draft...

See for yourself: http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/teambyteam?team=Washington+Redskins

I think that saying "because we didn't have 1st round picks, we didn't build through the draft" is a little rediculous. Those teams were absolutely built through the draft in every way, usually with late round picks. Beathard would trade future 1st round picks for current 2nd rounders if there was a guy there he coveted. Beathard got value with his late rounders, while often missing on or trading away 1st rounders. The number of picks doesn't matter, where the picks come doesn't matter, it's all about drafting starters wherever you happen to pick. Gibbs took a page out of Beathard's book in 2004 when he traded his future 2nd round choice for a 2004 3rd rounder which ended up being Chris Cooley.

[JRAB]

I see only three guys on the Cowboys roster that are really top 10: Terrence Newman, Demarcus Ware and Tony Romo sits to pee(who could be a one hit wonder). Marion Barber is just not good. He gets most of his yards in garbage time when the other team's defense is already tired. Guys like Carpenter(first round), Marcus Spears(first round) have been mediocre at best. And guess what, they're both first round picks.

Also, you don't really know how Montgomery would perform at Dallas. Ratliff their NT was a 7th round pick. Montgomery has been solid for us. Golston is pretty solid too.

While I do agree on the 1. Newman, 2. Ware and 3. Romo sits to pee part, I disagree with the top 10 part.

4. Marion Barber: I really, really like his style of play and frankly, I'd have trouble finding 10 backs I'd rather have right now than him.

5. Chris Canty: If I were running a 3-4 defense, there aren't 10 other DE's I'd rather have than him.

6. Jay Ratliff: DL is my pet position, meaning it is my favorite position in the NFL. I follow those guys closely, not only on our team but also on other NFL teams and in the draft... particularly our division rivals. I don't know if you paid that much attention this year to Ratliff, but he did one heck of a job moving in at NT for their injured starter. He's probably the best pass rushing NT in the league (he's lightning quick for a 300 lb guy) and he surprisingly holds up against the run as well as some guys 30-40 pounds heavier than him. Put him in a Tampa 2 defense playing Warren Sapp's old position and he'd be a superstar. He's that good.

7. Jason Witten: I think almost everyone would put Witten in the top 10 of TE's in the NFL. Probably the top 3 actually.

8. Bradie James: Again, I would have trouble finding 10 ILB's that I'd rather have if I were playing a 3-4 defense. He excels at just about every aspect except for coverage and he's not as bad as many make him out to be in that area. He was bad in coverage last year when he was playing with a lot of extra weight... but normally, he's not bad.

9. Roy Williams: While he wasn't close to Sean Taylor and that argument had been put to rest (finally!)... Williams is at least in the top 10 in the NFL at SS.

10. Andre Gurode: There are not 10 centers in the NFL playing better than Gurode. He is a road grater and has really solidified the Dallas OL. He did have the missed snaps in the game against us, but that's about the only time he's had that trouble, except for a couple of times in the rest of the season.

Like I said in my original post... it isn't scientific and is open to debate, for sure... but that's how I judged if they were top 10 at their position. I did the same thing for us and New England, so it was even enough to get my point across.

And really, that was the thought process behind ranking them like that. I needed a way to pick difference makers that were drafted by the teams and since that is a subjective process, I did it as fairley as I could.

If you don't agree with it, then using the draft picks that made the rosters... try to use your own meathod to find the difference makers.

IAlso, you don't really know how Montgomery would perform at Dallas. Ratliff their NT was a 7th round pick. Montgomery has been solid for us. Golston is pretty solid too.

Like I mentioned already... DL is the position that I watch and study the most. The following is still just my opinion though:

While Montgomery played better than I expected him to, he isn't in the same catagory as the two (three) NT's that Dallas has.

Jay Ratliff, Tank Johnson and Jason Ferguson (IR) are all three very good players. Ratliff is hands down the best, but Tank and Ferguson are both good players. Tank is a penetrating DT like Ratliff, but unlike Ratliff, Tank initially would overrun things and take himself out of the play. Now that he's stopped that tendency, he's turning into a starting caliber NT in the NFL. He's very powerful, low and can really bottle things up against the run... and just like Ratliff, he can really penetrate and collaps the pocket.

Montgomery is definately 4th out of those four guys and since most 3-4 teams usually keep 2 NT's and never more than 3 (if that) then it's safe to say that Montgomery wouldn't make that team.

If Montgomery couldn't do it, I know Golston wouldn't.

Our 2006 draft was pretty solid: McIntosh(who is 100% starter material. He's a great linebacker), Montgomery, Doughty(who is pretty good), Golston. Let's all remember that our defense is in the top 10, and all these guys contributed for us.

Our 2006 draft was pretty decent. That's more proof that we need to keep our picks and use them.

Whoever said if we had as many picks as NE and Dallas through the 2002 - 2006 seasons... we would have done as well, was probably correct. We didn't pick badly really... we just didn't have enough picks.

Still, just because we have players from that draft contributing on our DL and at S, doesn't neccessarily mean those guys are that good though.

We've been wanting the front office to draft DL for so long now and our DL got so old and devoid of talent that it really isn't a surprise that Montgomery and Golston made the team and that Montgomery is starting. There wasn't that much in front of them to challenge them.

I'm not saying they aren't good... but I've shown how Mont would not make the DL in Dallas... nor would he in NE either, IMO. Golston for sure wouldn't. So them being here and contributing is more a function of us having a weak DL instead of them being great players, IMO.

And let's face it... while Doughty played above expectations, if the Taylor tragedy didn't happen, no way Doughty is making any kind of an impact here... much less in NE or Dallas.

That leaves Rocky, who is a very nice OLB in our 4-3. He's a keeper. However, I said it during the draft and I'll say it now... safeties and 4-3 LB's just don't make that much of an impact on defense as DL do. A dominant DL will impact the game and be much more catalytic than a LB every time. We need to spend some of our high picks on the DL (and OL too... fix the trenches!) instead of on the back 7 players. Until we do that, there's no way we'll have a dominant defensive unit.

Look at the draft lists again. Here are the number of picks each of the three teams used on OL or DL:

NE: 8

Dallas: 8

Washington: 2

Since both NE and Dallas run a 3-4 and the OLB's are basically DE's for them... if you count LB's too as catalytic players, then here is the numbers:

NE: 9

Dallas: 12

Washington: 2

So, as you can see... not only has both #1 seeds in the playoffs had way more picks than us... not only have that acquired way more impact players in their drafts... but the players they did pick were much more along the trenches than the players we picked.

I hope that someone in our front office does something like this and realizes that not only do we need to keep all our picks and make good picks... but we need much more along the trenches to solidify the areas of the team that matter most (except for QB of course).

Stop with the glamour picks and please choose the big guys up front who can take over a game.

One final thought: When we do have to get free agents on defense... the one's who always end up costing so much are the DL and corners. The LB's and safeties usually don't get as much money as the DL and corners. Just look at how good Fletcher is and how comparatively little he cost.

So, if we have to get some through the draft and some through FA... it would make more sense to get the DL and corners in the draft and look at S and LB's in FA so we don't have to spend as much.

Sorry for the length (again)

[bedlamVR]

And there are 116 undrafted free agents in the championship round of the playoffs including guys like Jeff Saturday, Ryan Grant, Antonio Gates, Antonio Pierce, Tony Romeo, Adam Vinatari, Atari Bigby and there are grounds to say you could put together a great team out of them .

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story?id=09000d5d805e2fdc&template=with-video&confirm=true

Also you could say the Pats have been phenomenal this year but who represented the AFC last year? How about the year before that ? The argument does go that they put their foundations in the draft BUT Wes Welker, Randy Moss, Dante Stallworth, Adaluis Thomas, Junior Seau, Rodny Harrison all play a huge part in their success.

There is a thread like this every year and everyone jumps on the band wagon and says yes we suck because we don't draft enough BUT putting a team together is not just the question of how you get the players it is what you do with them getting the right players for your system, having a little luck and avoiding the injury bug.

This is not high school this is a league on which any team can beat any other on their day..

[Riggo-toni]

HOWEVER, I also point out that the Redskins MOST SUCCESSFUL ERA (IMO between 1969 and 1990) They only had 3 first round picks in a 23-year span...

Granted, those 3 picks were Art Monk, Mark May, and Darrell Green... (So we did pretty well anyways), But we built successful teams without the draft...

Not so fast - Beathard's great talent was finding picks in the late round. Here are a few names of guys we drafted:

Russ Grimm, Dexter Manley, Charles Mann, Brian Mitchell (a Casserly pick), Charlie Brown...plenty of others if you look into it. Beathard typically traded 1st rounders for lower rond draft picks. His favorite deal was trading the following year's #1 for a second rounder he wanted. We may not have had alot of 1sts, but we built the team largely on guys picked in the later rounds.

[JRAB]

And there are 116 undrafted free agents in the championship round of the playoffs including guys like Jeff Saturday, Ryan Grant, Antonio Gates, Antonio Pierce, Tony Romeo, Adam Vinatari, Atari Bigby and there are grounds to say you could put together a great team out of them .

UDFA's are all over the NFL. Dallas in particular has been successful with undrafted players. Romo sits to pee, Hurd, Austin, Davis, and probably more that I don't know about made that team and are contributing. I look at the undrafted players as being part of the draft process though. Good scouting and knowing who fits your system are important. As your post shows, there is some real talent to be found after the draft ends... we just need to do a better job of finding the one's who can make the team.

The thing about UDFA's is that it isn't how many picks you have... it's simply a money issue. They go where the signing bonus is the largest, usually and it seems like Danny could compete for any of those guys that he wanted to. I just don't know why we haven't been able to find more after the draft is over.

Also you could say the Pats have been phenomenal this year but who represented the AFC last year?

Indy, who has done a great job drafting and finding talent. They keep their picks too.

How about the year before that ?

Pittsburgh, who has done a great job drafting and finding talent. They keep their picks too.

The argument does go that they put their foundations in the draft BUT Wes Welker, Randy Moss, Dante Stallworth, Adaluis Thomas, Junior Seau, Rodny Harrison all play a huge part in their success.

Right. I never said don't use free agency too. Problem is that they were in great cap shape and have managed the cap well and so could afford to get those guys, while we are consistently the highest cap figure BY FAR when the season ends. That is in part the problem here... how we manage the cap and continually move money forward into the next season... perpetuating the Redskin tradition of starting out the offseason 20 million over the cap.

Also, because they had a surplus of picks, they were able to trade picks (low one's... not high one's) for Welker and Moss, and still have a full draft to pick players. Not to mention that they do a MUCH better job of determining which players can help them in free agency and we don't. You don't see NE spending big dollars (and/or picks) for someone who doesn't hardly even play like Lloyd, Arch, Duckett, etc.

All of that is all the more reason to keep our picks and spend money in the draft more and FA less. We drafted pretty well considering we had very few picks... we compete with NE's success in the draft. We absolutely suck at finding vet's compared to them. Use the draft more and FA less (but still use it).

There is a thread like this every year and everyone jumps on the band wagon and says yes we suck because we don't draft enough BUT putting a team together is not just the question of how you get the players it is what you do with them getting the right players for your system, having a little luck and avoiding the injury bug.

Nobody is saying don't use free agency and nobody is for sure saying don't look for undrafted free agents... we're just saying put a renewed emphasis on the draft and UDFA's and rely less on unrestricted free agents.

This is not high school this is a league on which any team can beat any other on their day..

The hell you say?

[Thoth]

Note also that NE and Dallas have starters on their OL/DL that were first day, but not first round, picks. They fortify the trenches regularly.

AND when players like Samuels leave, they will get compensatory picks, continuing their habit of having extra draft picks, and stocking roster with low priced talent.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Hold onto picks as well as sign FAs, which can both be done. I think that was JRAB's point, and I agree with him. Don't trade picks for players unless it is a great deal.