Who do you hold responsible?

[missionwild_10]

Gibbs for failing to prepare the offense and calling a terrible offensive gameplan, especially in the first half. The D did everything they could to win the game. The blame is squarely on the offense. It's not on the offensive line, because Gibbs didn't call plays that go to their strengths. If they aren't run-blocking well - stop running so much... Until the passing game got desperate when we were down 14 it was very effective. It would have never gotten desperate if we called a spread and controlled aerial attack from the beginning.

To say that the lin didn't completly blow is just crazy. Fabini and Heyer looked awful. You do realize that the reason we have been throwing the ball is because our right side cannot run block. Gibbs did a great job with this team this year, show some respect because you will be crying for him to come back 5 years from now.

[jimster]

The Seahawks. The better team won and that's the way it's supposed to be.

:helmet:

but how do we complain about that until August? :laugh:

[Siven]

This might sound dumb, but I think a lot of us are to blame.

We were all in here acting like retards saying how we were going to crush the puny Seahawks cause they in a weak division and don't have any big name good players.

Fact is, we got our asses handed to us and then because we set ourselves up for disappointment and now we want to point fingers at why we lost?

Pretty simple. It's the playoffs and the teams are all good and don't have many weaknesses and have good QBs and good coaches and they simple wanted the game more than our guys and as a result we got an old fashioned ass whuppin.

[abdcskins]

Shawn Suisham. He ***t the bed. He lost it for us.

*I realize that one play never determines the outcome of a game, but c'mon. That play was gigantic, momentum was just handed back. It is obvious that was the decider to me.*

[cowboys22]

Shawn Suisham. He ***t the bed. He lost it for us.

*I realize that one play never determines the outcome of a game, but c'mon. That play was gigantic, momentum was just handed back. It is obvious that was the decider to me.*

Funny how an ex-cowboy kicker ruined your playoffs. That was his plan all along.

[jimster]

Funny how an ex-cowboy kicker ruined your playoffs. That was his plan all along.

yeah, it was his plan to help the team that cut him in favor of Vanderjact who was also cut. :insane:

[Redzone Offense]

We as fans and maybe the Skins coaches, underestimated Seattle's defensive line. Gosh, they were incredible. Imagine having that line for the Skins. Wow!!

Also, the playcalling and execution on the offensive series after the kickoff turnover. No points after that?!?!?

How could you not give the ball to Moss or Portis after the turnover? Sellers (bad game overalll) and Cooley (invisible all game)? WTF?

[section 130]

Brunell just waived his hand when the kick was in the air. It was his plan all along.

He has that kind of power.

[Potato Sack]

The O'line let us down. Grow some balls.

[JMS]

I don't see how anyone could claim Collins had a "great" game. He didn't do much of anything most of the day, a couple of the drops people are complaining about were short passes thrown too hard with no touch, he apparently forgot to wind the "internal clock" that people have been saying he has, got bailed out on a fumble, and threw two bad picks to end the game.

two bad interceptions? One of those picks was in the air when Moss gave up on the play. I don't care if John Elway, Joe Montana, or Sonny were throwing the ball if you reciever doesn't even attempt to contest the throw most are going to be picks.

Tod was hurried more in that game than any QB I've seen in years. That was the worst protection game I've ever seen. And yet Todd was still hitting his recievers right in their hands. Maybe I'm old school, out of the Bear Bryant philosophy. But if it hits your recievers what eight or nine times and they consistantly drop it, it aint the QB's fault.

It frusterated me that in the second half when the chips were down the offense started to come alive. It's like they can't be bothered to show up until the game is almost lost.

I stand by my statement. Todd didn't have a bad game considering his recievers stunk, and his O-Line never showed up.

Cambell will be the QB next year cause we can't commit to a 36 year old QB. We aren't a verteran team trying to win one more superbowl. We're a mediocre team with a lot of talent which needs many more pieces until we're good. We shouldn't burn our bridges with a young upcoming potentially franchise QB and go for the guy who's played the best this season but who is 36 years old.

[Tarhog]

TC, take away the drops, played solid, especially given the constant pressure he was under. He had a couple wounded ducks in there, but overall, he put the ball in spots where the receivers had a chance to bring them in. We just failed to do that for the most part. Not to mention, as on the pass to Caldwell, their D played very well. It wasn't just OUR performance. They gave us very little.

[JMS]

Ahhhhhh another blamestorming thread.

Folks............ we win as a team, and lose as a team. No one individule is to blame for the loss.

I disagree. You must look at your team and see what is working and what isn't working. If you can't do that after a medocre seahawks team made us look like a JV team in the biggest game in years, then you have no hope in improving.

I know Gibbs loves to take responsibility for everybody's faults. That frusterates me too. How many times do these players just have to fail to show up to teach everyone that if the coach doesn't hold someone responsible; the player won't either.

I'll give you one point. We have more than one hole on this team.

[InsaneBoost]

The ENTIRE Team

They played as a team

They lost as a team

.

[PCS]

Tell you what. I can watch that game again, (which I may do anyway). And in doing so, I'm betting I can find something that a good percentage of the players on that field did, that made them responsible, in one way or the other, for the Redskins losing. I will also find that the Seahawks were responsible as well.

[Tarhog]

I disagree. You must look at your team and see what is working and what isn't working. If you can't do that after a medocre seahawks team made us look like a JV team in the biggest game in years, then you have no hope in improving.

I know Gibbs loves to take responsibility for everybody's faults. That frusterates me too. How many times do these players just have to fail to show up to teach everyone that if the coach doesn't hold someone responsible; the player won't either.

I'll give you one point. We have more than one hole on this team.

What you see from Gibbs is for public consumption only. Do you really think they don't hold players accountable for their play behind closed doors and on the practice field? There are a lot of styles of coaching. I don't want a coach who guts his players, lays blame on individuals publically. You might win short-term with that approach, but I think its the wrong thing to do if you really want to grow long-term success.

I think the reason we lost this game is obvious. We had to give super-human effort over an extended period to turn the season around and get into the playoffs. We didn't have anything left, and the odds are against being able to sustain that kind of overachievement for an extended period. We'd been beating the odds for awhile, and it finally caught up with us on the road in a hostile environment against a very good team.

[fansince62]

I must say, Todd Collins had a great game. For a guy playing with almost no offensive line I thought he was terrific.

you evidently have low standards.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

Low standards for what? The offensive line having 2 starters out of 5? Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, or anyone else you put back there wouldn't have faired any better.

[JMS]

i dont know why u even lookin at portis.. he shed blood sweat and tears out for this team all season long... he slipped between the smallest gaps to give us from what would have been a 3 yrd gain to a 8 yrd gain.. he took on every blocks he could have... what i thought they should have done with portis is use him like b-west over in philly. let him get out one on one with a lb.. give him the open field which could lead us larges amounts but thats done with dont want to go into it..

Clinton portis rushed for 52 yards on 20 carries for a 2.6 yard average. Clinton has had 4 100 yard games all year. This fiction we subscribe too saying he's a premier back is wearing thin. He's had a couple of good games this year. He's matched that with a couple of very very poor games where he was responsible for multiple turnovers and cost us the game. Generally he's just been extreamly average.

I wouldn't be so down on him except he wasn't hitting the hole hard. If the hole isn't there, hit it anyway and it will clear. Portis sometimes just lies down.

I'm not saying we scrap Portis, he's still our best runner and poor O-Line play is definitely part of his problem. But we still need a good power back who we could feature in big games and Sellers isn't it. Portis has never been it.

moss, could have played better... but do u think hes the fault for our loss. . u think he would want to go out not giving 110 percent for sean.. dont think so...

Thinking has nothing to do with it. Moss has been forgetable all season. This is statistically his worst season with the team getting only 3 touchdowns and averaging a career low 13.3 yards per catch. That's not even considering the turn overs he's responsible for this season.

Yeah Moss is the largest reason we lost this game. #1 He's the top reciever and should be our best weapon. Once again that wasn't true. Worse still Moss was responsible for several drive stopping drops, and one game changing turnover. Paying this guy like a #1 doesn't make him a number one. He's a very fast streaky player who doesn't even show up to the game the majority of the time.

so next time u start point fingers at sean taylors two best friends, u need to go elsewhere. become a fan of pats or something. cause we dont need this kind of stuff at extremeskins.com

If you can't take a critical eye to your own team, then you have no hope of improving. Fact is taylor's two best friends are paid to take control of close games. Fact is Portis played terrible in this game, and Moss literally did more than any other player to loose it.

[Rufus T Firefly]

two bad interceptions? One of those picks was in the air when Moss gave up on the play. I don't care if John Elway, Joe Montana, or Sonny were throwing the ball if you reciever doesn't even attempt to contest the throw most are going to be picks.

Tod was hurried more in that game than any QB I've seen in years. That was the worst protection game I've ever seen. And yet Todd was still hitting his recievers right in their hands. Maybe I'm old school, out of the Bear Bryant philosophy. But if it hits your recievers what eight or nine times and they consistantly drop it, it aint the QB's fault.

It frusterated me that in the second half when the chips were down the offense started to come alive. It's like they can't be bothered to show up until the game is almost lost.

I stand by my statement. Todd didn't have a bad game considering his recievers stunk, and his O-Line never showed up.

Cambell will be the QB next year cause we can't commit to a 36 year old QB. We aren't a verteran team trying to win one more superbowl. We're a mediocre team with a lot of talent which needs many more pieces until we're good. We shouldn't burn our bridges with a young upcoming potentially franchise QB and go for the guy who's played the best this season but who is 36 years old.

Yes, he threw two bad INTs. Moss didn't see the ball and gave up on the play, and it's fine to criticize him for that. But it was still a bad decision and a bad throw by Collins.

And your statement was that he played "great" not that he "wasn't bad". Those are two different statements, obviously. I would say he was mediocre, at best. Certainly far from "great". And there weren't "8 or 9" drops that I saw. There were a few, some on balls that weren't particularly well thrown but that receivers maybe should have held. The Cooley play, for example (in retrospect maybe the biggest play of the game), is a catch that Cooley often makes but it wasn't a good throw, either.

And all the talk about how much pressure Collins was under, and the plays that receivers didn't make, were the same things people refused to consider when they were looking at Campbell. And, of course, Campbell was constantly torn apart on this board for not bringing the team from behind late. Collins was at his worst the first time he was put in that situation.

[skinsince72]

I must say, Todd Collins had a great game. For a guy playing with almost no offensive line I thought he was terrific. How many balls can our recievers drop thrown right into their hands?

Everybody but Randle-El was dropping the ball. Even sure handed Cooly dropped what would have been a big gain.

It's hard for me to get totally down on Stephon Heyer. It would be a major accomplishment for a first year first round draftpick to block the starting NFC probowl defensive end. Heyer's play all year has been miraculous. Well reality cought up to us on Saterday. Not only did Heyer's play come back down to earth, but the assistance he was given to accomplish his imposible task was comically ineffective too.

What was Boswell thinking in his column Friday calling the Seattle defense among the worst in the league. They've got four probowlers. Think he could have enunciated the fact we had an undrafted rookie free agent, Teams #3 right tackle going against the starting NFC probowl end? Again Heyer may still be a good pro. Most pro linemen don't start their rookie year. It was one notable battle that we lost in an embarressing fassion.

So who do we hold responsible. I hold Moss responsible first, and I hold Clinton Portis responsible second. Simple fact of the matter is these guys aren't leaders. They're clowns. Their guys who this year showed up every third outing and posture the rest of the time. Moss was horrable all game. He was horrable all season except for a handful of games where he was average. Portis was caught from behind by a defensive tackle in the backfield. Clinton is our best runner, but he fumbles, he's injury prown, and he's eccentially a speed third down back on a team which needs a power back.

Our stars not only didn't take over that game, they didn't show up. It's easy to forgive Stephon Heyer who was put in an impossible situation. It's impossible to forgive Moss and Portis who get paid the big bucks to be leaders on this team and just don't seem to be able to intelectually will themselves to be motivated in any consistant fashion regardless of how big the game is.

Joe Gibbs has transformed the franchise. We were a very bad team before gibs came back. Now we are a mediocre team. We aren't a good team. Clearly the four game winning streak has been exposed as playing against other teams who were just dialing it in.

The hard facts are the skins never scared anybody. We lost and were dominated by a mediocre Seattle team who defeated one winning franchise all season. We're closer to bad, than we are too good.

Who do I hold responsible for getting to the playoffs? Gibbs, Saunders, Williams, the assistant coaches, and all the players.

[SkinsNumberOne]

Ahhhhhh another blamestorming thread.

Folks............ we win as a team, and lose as a team. No one individule is to blame for the loss.

I find I agree with a lot of points you make, Pete, and this is no different; the team wins and loses together. The point of that, is that it's the onus on every player to look at themselves and say "What could I have done to help out more?" and be critical, and try to improve. That's all one can ask.

As a fan, though, I don't see anything wrong with looking at the game and thinking about some of these issues. I know I have in the past 20 hours.

That said--

Clearly the four game winning streak has been exposed as playing against other teams who were just dialing it in.

A ridiculously stupid comment. The Vikings were "dialing it in" with their playoff destiny very much on the line? When we played the Bears, it was the same. The Giants had not clinched when we played them, and given how they played the Pats with NOTHING to play for, this makes your position even more ludicrous. The Cowboys are the only potential proof, and 1/4 isn't going to give you the evidence you need to prove the streak a fluke. Let's be intellectually honest here.

The hard facts are the skins never scared anybody. We lost and were dominated by a mediocre Seattle team who defeated one winning franchise all season. We're closer to bad, than we are too good.

What is "bad" and what is "good?" People use words like this as if they are absolutes. I can tell you, the one team that is absolutely proven as good this year is the Patriots; their record says that they are undeniably good. Beyond that, it's all perspective and how you relate to others. So, how do the Redskins fare? Top 6 in the conference I guess? Not mediocre, sorry. Leading in the fourth quarter of this mistake, and lost a close one despite the final score (the final score of games can be misleading; this one falls in that category).

[clskinsfan]

I don't see how anyone could claim Collins had a "great" game. He didn't do much of anything most of the day, a couple of the drops people are complaining about were short passes thrown too hard with no touch, he apparently forgot to wind the "internal clock" that people have been saying he has, got bailed out on a fumble, and threw two bad picks to end the game.

I agree and they wer not just picks but pick 6's. Collins lost this game.

[JMS]

what are you all ultimately suggesting, that we'd be better off without Cooley, Moss, Portis, 1/2 the team? If you're not suggesting that, then whats the point? Are you just venting? I really want to know....

I think we would be better off without Moss.

Cooley dropped a big ball, but that is really and exception to how Cooley plays. How Cooley has played all season. Poor play, turn-overs, and dropped balls has become the norm for Moss. Mosses first year here he caught 9 td's. Last year he had six. This season he's had 3. Moss is an ok player. He's a potential game breaker ( rare occassion ). But consistantly he's not performed well, he lives off his potential and rep and we can't afford that in a #1 reciever/

Portis, depending upon what we pay for him next season might need to go too. He is not a premire back. He's not a consistant threat. He's never been a good short yardage guy. He's still our best runner, but he needs more structure and needs to be held accountable for his poor play. If we can't assemble a good competent offensive line which stays healthy all year, Portis shouldn't be our featured rushing attack next year. He's not big enought, he's not strong enough, and he doesn't run hard consistantly enough.

[Displaced Fan]

Collins proved why he's a career backup

[Tarhog]

I think we would be better off without Moss.

Cooley dropped a big ball, but that is really and exception to how Cooley plays. How Cooley has played all season. Poor play, turn-overs, and dropped balls has become the norm for Moss. Mosses first year here he caught 9 td's. Last year he had six. This season he's had 3. Moss is an ok player. He's a potential game breaker ( rare occassion ). But consistantly he's not performed well, he lives off his potential and rep and we can't afford that in a #1 reciever/

Portis, depending upon what we pay for him next season might need to go too. He is not a premire back. He's not a consistant threat. He's never been a good short yardage guy. He's still our best runner, but he needs more structure and needs to be held accountable for his poor play. If we can't assemble a good competent offensive line which stays healthy all year, Portis shouldn't be our featured rushing attack next year. He's not big enought, he's not strong enough, and he doesn't run hard consistantly enough.

I think you're missing the bigger picture - the play of the O-line. Losing one of our best lineman to start the season, and the other injuries we've experienced there, plus putting a new starting QB in there. Moss has had a sub-par year, and thats probably putting it mildly, but I think a lot of that is tied to our O-line situation. Moss runs more deep routes than any other WR. When your QB isn't getting enough time to set up, and when he's less-inclined to release the ball before the WR is open, your going to see productivity of a player like Moss drop. Ditto Clinton Portis - the holes haven't been there this season like they have previous years. And truthfully, I think both Portis and Moss have played through injuries all year long. None of that is unique to our team, those are things all NFL clubs work through. But I think it gives some perspective to why both Moss and Portis could have turn around and have Pro Bowl seasons next year, if we return to the kind of O-line play we've had previously, and if JC continues to develop and learns to get rid of the ball earlier.