Memo to Joe

[Potato Sack]

Edit: Oops, double post...see above.

[RDSKNfaithfull]

Was the play calling conservative in the Giants game? http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213885

How well do you know the personnel/abilities on this team? As well as Joe Gibbs? How many hours do you spend watching the players practice and talking with position coaches? Is the current version of the Redskins as talented and experienced and successful as the current version of the New England Patriots? Is Jason Campbell just as good as Tom Brady? Should Joe Gibbs emulate the play calling of Bill Belichick with his current cast of characters?

Just askin'.

You could say the same thing for Bill Parcells a future HOF coach. He thought his team didn't have it in them but one year later they look like the 2nd best offense in the league.

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

For the past week or so Ive tried not to harp on the old ball coach,

Nobody cares, go post it on a South Carolina board.

Just kidding.

[pimpumd]

I dont understand why people are saying JG didnt call the right game..or was being too conservative.

I'm going to try to answer your question with my OPINION. If you actually look at the play-by-play of the second half of the Giants game, up until we were down by seven, it was about a 50/50 run to pass ratio. That is fine, however, when you look at the passes that were called (with the exception of one deep attempt to Moss), it was all very short stuff, even behind the line of scrimmage type stuff (i.e. very conservative). The running was what is was, and that wasn't much.

The weakness of the Giants, at least in my opinion, was their pass defense. We did not attack it in the second half until we were down seven, and look what happened....we actually managed to move the ball.

That is my take on JG's conservative play calling, at least in the Giants game. Everyone who is claiming that we were not conservative because we passed more than we ran, well, we had to pass basically every down once we were down seven. Also, look what happened when we were forced to pass downfield (none of the short stuff that absolutely did not work). We actually moved the ball.

[kingfish50]

I think it was bad execution and conservative play calling that lost it for us. I've been thru all of JG's coaching career.

Back in his first tenure, he'd do the same thing with a lead, sit on it. We had the best O-line and RB's back then. Other teams knew what we were going to do but couldn't stop us. We could run the ball and still score points. That's how good this team was back then. Unfortunately, those days are gone. We don't have that talent on this team and our defense is like Jekyll and Hyde.

The Redskins need to play aggressive football for all 4 quarters, even when they are ahead by 2 TD's or more. This team isn't that good and they need to take advantage of every opportunity.

This team doesn't dominate like the good teams in this league do. Look at dallASS! Can anybody on this board tell me that the Redskins are playing anywhere near the football game that they are?

This team better step up or we can kiss this season goodbye and watch the cowBOYS representing our division in the playoffs while we say "maybe next year" again.

[smoke-n-mirrors]

I might add Joe is on crack if Thrash is in there for Moss!

[gortiz]

they call their offense the same way I play madden ... LET ME EXPLAIN!

When I play madden, I have so many offensive formations right at my fingertips, so what do I do? I'll call anything at anytime, that means 4 WR formations on 1st down, double reverses, going into a jumbo package and then throwing to the only WR on the field, etc. thats how the pats call the game.

anyone notice how they came out slinging all over the field, then they came out the next drive and ran 10 out of 12 plays. its amazing, their offense is so fluid - it seems that they can mold it anyway they want, on a drop of a dime.

sure brady has a lot to do with it, but if brady was in our offense, he would be so restricted and confined.

[Geoff_K]

theres too many long posts in this thread :doh: too tired to read them :munchout: so i'll just watch

Next time just do a ... "+1" instead. It still ups your post count and saves you typing time. :laugh:

Back on topic ...

While there were some bad plays by players, it did appear to me that the playcalling was less kill-them than in the beginning. Shorter passes and such.

No clue how it should have been called, it just looked like a eat the clock type of playcalling to this unenlightened fan.

[ThomasRoane]

For the past week or so Ive tried not to harp on the old ball coach, as hard as its been. But I cant help thinking of what could have been if he had it in him to call a game like New Englands coach, 'The Jerk'. ( I cant stand the guy so I wont give him the respect of using his name.) New England is sitting on a 2 touchdown lead and what do they do? Drive in the dagger, thats what they do! And thats why they win. They continue to mix it up and pass while the defense surely expects them to run the clock out.

And for those of you who still think its not Joe Gibbs making the conservative calls, think again.

As much as I hope Gibbs has learned his lesson, im afraid Im only dreaming.

Why send a memo? Man up and go tell him that to his face. Bet you won't ;p

And the comparison with New England is quite naieve. How many games has Tom Brady won? Didn't that guy win 3 Super Bowls? And how many starts does JC have to his name? Oh yeah, TEN!!!

You're a GD genius though! Let's let JC call his own plays! That should do it. Run veritcals (all go) every play! Yeah! Stretch the field. That's what we need to do. Go for the throat.

Ah screw it...you chicken littles will never change.

[pimpumd]

Why send a memo? Man up and go tell him that to his face. Bet you won't ;p

And the comparison with New England is quite naieve. How many games has Tom Brady won? Didn't that guy win 3 Super Bowls? And how many starts does JC have to his name? Oh yeah, TEN!!!

You're a GD genius though! Let's let JC call his own plays! That should do it. Run veritcals (all go) every play! Yeah! Stretch the field. That's what we need to do. Go for the throat.

Ah screw it...you chicken littles will never change.

Taking things to the extreme there, aren't you? The OP wasn't saying we should expect JC to perform like Brady, or our team to perform like the Pats. He was simply comparing the play-calling. And the part about JC calling his own plays, I don't know where you're coming from with that.

[cmc]

I love Joe Gibbs but he needs to light it up like the old days. This stat is misleading but dropping the strike year he averaged 387 points a year and now after three years he has averaged 268 points. 283 if you drop 2004. Gibbs two is not as fired up and I understand that due to age and health issues. We keep adding wide receivers but whats the point if the coaches are to scared to throw the ball. I would much rather see us take chances then go so conservative we don't know if we will win or lose until the last minute of the game. Plus on a side note, I want a coach that will watch and see if we make that last second field goal instead of not looking. Could you imagine the players on the field all turning away while the kicker is approaching the ball? Sure we don't have Manning and Brady but we could still losen up. This is just my :2cents: to add to the memo to Joe. But I still love ya Joe!!

[fansince62]

Was the play calling conservative in the Giants game? http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213885

How well do you know the personnel/abilities on this team? As well as Joe Gibbs? How many hours do you spend watching the players practice and talking with position coaches? Is the current version of the Redskins as talented and experienced and successful as the current version of the New England Patriots? Is Jason Campbell just as good as Tom Brady? Should Joe Gibbs emulate the play calling of Bill Belichick with his current cast of characters?

Just askin'.

you're absolutely right. guess we shouldn't expect the Skins to win either...like the Pats.

[fansince62]

Why send a memo? Man up and go tell him that to his face. Bet you won't ;p

And the comparison with New England is quite naieve. How many games has Tom Brady won? Didn't that guy win 3 Super Bowls? And how many starts does JC have to his name? Oh yeah, TEN!!!

You're a GD genius though! Let's let JC call his own plays! That should do it. Run veritcals (all go) every play! Yeah! Stretch the field. That's what we need to do. Go for the throat.

Ah screw it...you chicken littles will never change.

absolutely right! let's wait another 15 years to develop a competitive team! afterall...that's what the NFL is all about these days! ostriches apparently don't change either!

[youngestson]

While the second half play calling was conservative, the same sorts of calls had, in the first half, lead to a big lead.

Joe doesn't run the ball, pass the ball, catch the ball, or block. All three areas broke down in the second half. The three series in the third quarter were all geared to move the ball effeciently (which has been Joes MO since 1982) but if the runner is stuffed each and every time, the passer has three players in his face, and the right guard and tackle are being whipped..... there are not many plays drawn up to take care of that situation.

Am I totally thrilled with the coaching? No, but as another poster pointed out Gibbs does know the game and has some sort of plan. As one of those "give em' four years to see what the coach can do" guys, I have to let him coach the ways he sees fit.

[Bryan81]

As far as I am concerned Joe Gibbs can call anything he wants - the Redskins organization is much further ahead with him at the helm then it was a few years ago with Spurrier.

[Taylor 36]

So it is your opinion that we called the second half of the game much like we called the first half? Or are you knit picking?

It is not called knit-picking, it is called proving his point. You don't know what you are talking about, that is in "black and white." Go back and actually use the link provided to OM's thread. We were no where near as conservative in the second half as you try to make us believe. We were also no where near as good as executing plays as we were in the first half.

Last, but not least, one of those touchdowns that we were up by at the half was a gift from our defense causing a turn over inside the redzone. We played just as conservately in the first half as we did in the second. The only thing that changed was that our players forget they had to catch and tackle.

[Taylor 36]

Taking things to the extreme there, aren't you? The OP wasn't saying we should expect JC to perform like Brady, or our team to perform like the Pats. He was simply comparing the play-calling. And the part about JC calling his own plays, I don't know where you're coming from with that.

You can't compare the play calling of two completely different teams. They have different players with different strengths and weaknesses. It is absurd to think that some one would try to make this comparison.

[RedskinzOwnU]

Joe Gibbs is a bad coach. I don't care what he WAS. He IS a bad coach, and he is hurting this team. Is this team more talented than it was when he came here? Yes. And despite a horde of wasted draft picks, he has brought some good players here. My overall impression of his personnel management of the organization is mixed, but as a coach, he is terrible, and he is proving it for the 4th year in a row. It would really be nice to have someone who really analyzes the game of football, breaks it down, attacks the defense's weakness, and uses our strengths, like Belichick. Unfortunately, I don't think Gibbs is going to do it. If we don't beat detroit our season will be in jeopardy, and I don't have faith in Gibbs to make the adjustments necessary to increase our chances of beating them.

[ThomasRoane]

Taking things to the extreme there, aren't you? The OP wasn't saying we should expect JC to perform like Brady, or our team to perform like the Pats. He was simply comparing the play-calling. And the part about JC calling his own plays, I don't know where you're coming from with that.

The point is, you can't expect Gibbs and Saunders to call plays for Campbell like he's a seasoned vet. A QB needs to grow into the position. Otherwise, you'll ruin him like Spurrier did to Ramsey.

[pimpumd]

You can't compare the play calling of two completely different teams. They have different players with different strengths and weaknesses. It is absurd to think that some one would try to make this comparison.

Let me clarify my previous post. You can certainly make a comparison as to how two different teams approach similar situations, which is what I think the OP was attempting to do. He was comparing how one team (the Pats) continues to attack the opposition after getting a lead, while another team (the Skins) takes a conservative approach. That comparison can definitely be made.

[youngestson]

Joe Gibbs is a bad coach. I don't care what he WAS. He IS a bad coach, and he is hurting this team. Is this team more talented than it was when he came here? Yes. And despite a horde of wasted draft picks, he has brought some good players here. My overall impression of his personnel management of the organization is mixed, but as a coach, he is terrible, and he is proving it for the 4th year in a row. It would really be nice to have someone who really analyzes the game of football, breaks it down, attacks the defense's weakness, and uses our strengths, like Belichick. Unfortunately, I don't think Gibbs is going to do it. If we don't beat detroit our season will be in jeopardy, and I don't have faith in Gibbs to make the adjustments necessary to increase our chances of beating them.

No, Steve Spurrier is a bad (pro) coach. Norv Turner is a bad coach. Art Shell II is a bad coach.

Joe is showing the effect of being out of the game so many years.

[RedskinzOwnU]

No, Steve Spurrier is a bad (pro) coach. Norv Turner is a bad coach. Art Shell II is a bad coach.

Joe is showing the effect of being out of the game so many years.

You can't be serious. I gave him the "rusty old fart" pass in year 1. Just how many years does it take to "get back into the game?" You do realize he only has 1 more year left on his contract. If it was going to take him 5 years to get back into things, how many people would have actually wanted him to come back? And why sign him to only a 5 year contract? No. It doesn't take a good coach this long to get back into the swing of things. There is no excuse for his poor coaching and assessment of talent (MARK BRUNELL) in years 2, 3, and 4.

[Uno Mas]

I think it was bad execution and conservative play calling that lost it for us. I've been thru all of JG's coaching career.

Back in his first tenure, he'd do the same thing with a lead, sit on it. We had the best O-line and RB's back then. Other teams knew what we were going to do but couldn't stop us. We could run the ball and still score points. That's how good this team was back then. Unfortunately, those days are gone. We don't have that talent on this team and our defense is like Jekyll and Hyde.

The Redskins need to play aggressive football for all 4 quarters, even when they are ahead by 2 TD's or more. This team isn't that good and they need to take advantage of every opportunity.

This team doesn't dominate like the good teams in this league do. Look at dallASS! Can anybody on this board tell me that the Redskins are playing anywhere near the football game that they are?

This team better step up or we can kiss this season goodbye and watch the cowBOYS representing our division in the playoffs while we say "maybe next year" again.

:applause: Thank you. Ive been waiting for someone whos watched Joe's entire career to step up with this statement.

The point, again people, is that Joe Gibbs coaches scared. Coaches not to lose. All the cliches are true.

Im not saying the players dont get any blame, but they werent given the best chance to succeed, plain and simple.

I grew up watching and literally worshipping Joe Gibbs. When we resigned him in '04, my eyes welled up. It came at a time when I thought there was no hope for this franchise. Since Gibbs' return though, we've seen much of the same as we saw thr previous ten years. Then comes this year, we know we have some players. We start off 2-0 and were up by two touchdowns at halftime on our divisional opponent, who by the way is 0-2.

Now, its been a long time since this team has gone 3-0. With a 3-0 record coming out of a bye comes confidence. Confidence can do wonders for a rookie QB, see; 10 career starts.

Instead, what we have is a team that is less confident than it could be coming off an embarassing loss about to play a team that scores points at will. And how can we as fans expect these guys to be confident when the Head Coach doesnt have the confidence in them to go out there and let them play the game?

I believe Joe Gibbs has set this team up to fail miserably. Its obvious he lacks confidence and Im sure the players pick up on that. That being said, team moral will be at a familiar low point with a loss to Detriot. :2cents:

[pjfootballer]

Dont be so pessimistic. Joe is also known for his adjustments. I think we see something wild on Sunday. Gibbs can unload, dont think he cant. Its going to depend on the front four, without heavy blitzing to get pressure. Its a big game for Monty and Golston, they need to step up this week and take control of their position. No worries here, I think we are going to go right at Detroit, I hope we get the ball first.

Sad thing is, JG I would make the best halftime adjustments. Now, other coaches are schooling him at halftime.

[pjfootballer]

Was the play calling conservative in the Giants game? http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213885

How well do you know the personnel/abilities on this team? As well as Joe Gibbs? How many hours do you spend watching the players practice and talking with position coaches? Is the current version of the Redskins as talented and experienced and successful as the current version of the New England Patriots? Is Jason Campbell just as good as Tom Brady? Should Joe Gibbs emulate the play calling of Bill Belichick with his current cast of characters?

Just askin'.

Same thing I've said the last 2 weeks, I'll say to you. In OM's thread, don't look at the words PASS or RUN. Look at the possessions.

First 4 possessions of the 2nd half- 4 passes, 7 runs, 3 punts and a turnover

Last 2 possessions trailing- 17 passes and 3 runs, 1 punt and 1 turnover on downs.

YES WE WERE CONSERVATIVE when we led 17-3, 17-10 and when the game was tied 17-17. Joe HAD to throw to get back to even. A monkey could see that.