Memo to Joe

[Loxley]

I

Questioning with the intent of actually getting to the truth leads to enlightenment. Not all questions are such. As for the belief in a flat earth prior to westward exploration by Europeans, that is still a debated topic.

It was widely believed to be true hence Columbus was commissioned to prove or disprove the theory. However where the hell is the eastern hemisphere? Is that where Elvis lives these days? :laugh:

[JMac]

Each year since Gibbs has been back we start the season with high hopes. Each new year has brought even higher hopes of the season before because every one of us have read all the articles and heard first hand reports about how much we are progressing. We are all pumped up for game 1 every year.

This year we have heard nothing but praise for our young QB, how the defense may be back to form, etc etc. We all believe that this year both the offense and defense click and we are the team we have been praying for.

We as Redskins fans deserve better. After the Giants game almost everyone of us who watched the game started viewing this team as they were last year and I think its fair to do that after three games. Gibbs comment about how we are not a team that can put anyone away was a slap in the face to our own players. How can you field an offense with players like we have and not expect to be able to put teams away.

Every offseason we are set to believe that this is the year. For 15+ years now I have had high hopes. This year has been kinda easy for me, simply because I decided in my mind that we are a bad team. For 15 years I have hated the media for their negative slant on my Redskins, but this year I said to myself " For 15 years or so they have been right about my team".

It is not like we are a team like the Cardinals or Bengals or Lions of old. We have one of the largest payrolls in the NFL each year. We have a dream team of coaches. We have a fan base that loves the Redskins to the very core of our bones. Why then can we not put it all together? What as a team is it that we are missing to finaly get back to respectability and our old winning ways? Thats the million $ question that nobody can answer.

There are 13 regular season games left for us and we could possibly win them all, but just as easily lose them all which is easier for me to believe. Prove me wrong Redskins, prove me wrong!

[Piledriven]

For the past week or so Ive tried not to harp on the old ball coach, as hard as its been. But I cant help thinking of what could have been if he had it in him to call a game like New Englands coach, 'The Jerk'. ( I cant stand the guy so I wont give him the respect of using his name.) New England is sitting on a 2 touchdown lead and what do they do? Drive in the dagger, thats what they do! And thats why they win. They continue to mix it up and pass while the defense surely expects them to run the clock out.

And for those of you who still think its not Joe Gibbs making the conservative calls, think again.

As much as I hope Gibbs has learned his lesson, im afraid Im only dreaming.

Yes, unfortunately....you are absolutely RIGHT!

[pjfootballer]

Have you watched and evaluated the individual plays, or just their descriptions? Were these plays called in response to a particular defensive alignment? Was execution the problem? Was the Giants defense just good enough to stop the 'Skins when they needed to?

Actually I did evaluate them and the conclusion I came up with is, the playcalling was conservative. By that I don't mean that we should have heaved the ball downfield for 50 yards every play. By conservative, I mean we didn't attack their weekness. Over the middle. One slant, on crossing route or anything besides off guard runs and dumpoffs to RB's would be better than what we did. Face it, when they came out and made it 17-10, the team played scared.

[Beauty is Only]

absolutely right! let's wait another 15 years to develop a competitive team! afterall...that's what the NFL is all about these days! ostriches apparently don't change either!

The Redskins aren't currently competitive? Even in the loss with arguably conservative playcalling, the 'Skins lost by a touchdown in the waning seconds of the game against a division rival. This team is 2-1 with a green quarterback and a patchwork offensive line.

How long did it take the Pats to get to where they are now? They used to be the laughing stock of the league. After YEARS of playing together in the same system, they have it all together.

Wouldn't you agree the 'Skins are at least back on the right track after so many years of disappointment?

[Beauty is Only]

Actually I did evaluate them and the conclusion I came up with is, the playcalling was conservative. By that I don't mean that we should have heaved the ball downfield for 50 yards every play. By conservative, I mean we didn't attack their weekness. Over the middle. One slant, on crossing route or anything besides off guard runs and dumpoffs to RB's would be better than what we did. Face it, when they came out and made it 17-10, the team played scared.

Others evaluated and came up with different conclusions.

[Beauty is Only]

you're absolutely right. guess we shouldn't expect the Skins to win either...like the Pats.

Actually, so far, the 'Skins have won more than they've lost this season. Why do you want to win "like the Pats"? Why can't the Redskins win like the Redskins? A win is a win, whether its by Gibbs or Belichick.

[Beauty is Only]

Well, isn't blindly questioning someone's football knowledge just as bad? You simply assumed the OP had no knowledge of the game whatsoever. Yes, I will whole-heartedly agree that he or she may not have the same bank of knowledge as JG, but that doesn't necessarily mean the OP is wrong.

Please note that I did say “relatively little football knowledge”. I don’t think that’s ‘blindly questioning someone’s football knowledge’ especially when I’m comparing someone’s level of football knowledge with Gibbs’ level of football knowledge. Isn’t it reasonable to assume that most people who have that level of knowledge wouldn’t be posting on this board?

You seem to imply that I am calling the original poster an idiot. I am not. I’m just saying that, in comparison to Gibbs we are all relative idiots when it comes to knowing football and this team. In other words, our knowledge is limited compared to the knowledge of the Redskins coaching staff.

After all, I think we can all agree that JG has been coaching very conservatively during his second tenure with the Redskins.

Depends on who you ask.

There have been threads (like this one: http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213885) devoted to just the opposite line of reasoning, at least in respect to last week’s Giants game. Could be that conservatism is the overarching theme in Gibbs II’s play calling, maybe not. As for the most recent Giants game, if you claim that conservative play calling is the culprit, you may have a fight on your hands from other members of this board.

Simply because someone doesn't have the same amount of knowledge as someone else, doesn't mean they can't draw their own conclusions and have valid opinions, or else there's no point to this forum or any job for that matter, as there will always be a more knowledgeable person than you in that field.

I agree that no one is above criticism. But, if you’re going to accuse someone of something, get your facts straight first. Don’t let your emotions and first impressions be the basis for your argument. Gather facts, do research, think things through and then present your case. I realize it’s idealistic to assume that posters on this board will always follow this process when posting. Some use this board as a way of blowing off steam, hence emotion-based posts that call for the firing of the coach or trading/benching of a player (this type of posting goes the other way too, such as when a player has a few good games and people anoint that player as a hall of famer, etc.).

Now, we may not know exactly what is going on with the organization, but when you boil football down, it's a simple game. This is not rocket science or brain surgery, folks. Yes, schemes can be complicated, but Xs and Os do not make up for or hide a coach's personality and the way he calls plays. Bottom line for the Giants game: Gibbs admitted taking over calling plays in the second half for the offense, and we gained 9 total yards until our last drive and score zero points in the second half. In the first half, we scored 17 points and were moving the ball with efficiency. Cause and effect, it's as simple as that.

It’s a simple game when you draw it up on paper. On the field, it’s a totally different matter. Execution becomes critical. The defense is trying to stop the offense. The expected quickly becomes the unexpected. I’m really not the person to argue Xs and Os. I’ll leave that to more qualified individuals. But, I will say that some who have evaluated the 2nd half of the Giants game are convinced that poor execution, not conservative play calling, is to blame for the loss.

By the way, it seems you are questioning our intent in questioning Gibbs. Don't you think we want the same result as you, a fan who does not question Gibbs? We are simply asking for wins, so I guess if we're not becoming enlightened than neither are you.

Because I am, in a roundabout way, defending Gibbs doesn’t mean I don’t question him or his methods. But, I do realize that I am a relative idiot when it comes to football. I grow weary of those who think they know more football than this man, or at least give that impression.

[Piledriven]

Others evaluated and came up with different conclusions.

If others came up with a different conclusion then there must not be that many others...

The only other conclusion that I have is that pjfootballer is absolutely right and you are nothing more than a HOMER to even realize that this team played scared. It does not take a rocket scientist to realize that. We had this game in our grasp, ripe for the taking...and the coaching staff BLEW it. When we had the chance to stick the dagger in their heart and finish them, the coaching staff gave them a break.

The head coach gets down on his knees with his head down....to beg, to pray, to do whatever... Its just pathetic...even you know it!

:2cents:

[EersSkins05]

BREAKING NEWS: Joe Gibbs is a different coach than Bill Belichick.

And in other news, there is more than one way to win a football game...

[Beauty is Only]

If others came up with a different conclusion then there must not be that many others...

The only other conclusion that I have is that pjfootballer is absolutely right and you are nothing more than a HOMER to even realize that this team played scared. It does not take a rocket scientist to realize that. We had this game in our grasp, ripe for the taking...and the coaching staff BLEW it. When we had the chance to stick the dagger in their heart and finish them, the coaching staff gave them a break.

The head coach gets down on his knees with his head down....to beg, to pray, to do whatever... Its just pathetic...even you know it!

:2cents:

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213885)

[Piledriven]

Actually, so far, the 'Skins have won more than they've lost this season. Why do you want to win "like the Pats"? Why can't the Redskins win like the Redskins? A win is a win, whether its by Gibbs or Belichick.

We are 2-1...whoopity doo! Big deal... 3 games into the season and you make it sound like we are far and ahead of where we were last season. And to think, we BARELY won those 2 games...

You have got to be kidding me man

[Piledriven]

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213885)

What point exactly are you trying to prove...? You know you question Joe Gibbs playcalling in the second half of that game, and in the late part of most games...why even try to defend the man...? You didnt make the coaching mistakes, so why defend a guy who CLEARLY made the mistakes?

[Beauty is Only]

What point exactly are you trying to prove...? You know you question Joe Gibbs playcalling in the second half of that game, and in the late part of most games...why even try to defend the man...? You didnt make the coaching mistakes, so why defend a guy who CLEARLY made the mistakes?

You said Gibbs is coaching scared. I said there were others who disagreed. I posted the link to the thread where others who disagreed had posted.

For the record, I haven't defended Gibbs coaching decisions, nor have I openly disagreed with them. All I'm trying to say is this: compile facts and process them before you accuse someone. Don't let your 'gut feeling' or first impressions keep you from finding the truth. Make sure you know as much as you can know before you say someone CLEARLY made mistakes.

[Beauty is Only]

We are 2-1...whoopity doo! Big deal... 3 games into the season and you make it sound like we are far and ahead of where we were last season. And to think, we BARELY won those 2 games...

You have got to be kidding me man

So, you're saying you don't just want wins, you want blowout wins? You're not satisfied with a 'W', you want to win by at least 3 touchdowns? So, the Patriots Super Bowl wins don't count because they only won by 3 points in each of them? Those aren't 'really' wins?

This team lost several close games last year. So far, they've won two close ones and were a touchdown away from sending the third one into overtime. Is that not progress?

[Beauty is Only]

BREAKING NEWS: Joe Gibbs is a different coach than Bill Belichick.

And in other news, there is more than one way to win a football game...

Logic and sarcasm...two great tastes that taste great together.

[Piledriven]

You said Gibbs is coaching scared. I said there were others who disagreed. I posted the link to the thread where others who disagreed had posted.

For the record, I haven't defended Gibbs coaching decisions, nor have I openly disagreed with them. All I'm trying to say is this: compile facts and process them before you accuse someone. Don't let your 'gut feeling' or first impressions keep you from finding the truth. Make sure you know as much as you can know before you say someone CLEARLY made mistakes.

I DO know what I know...GIBBS SCREWED THE GAME! He has NO SWAGGER and it reflects in his team. Even his own players know and admit openly that hhe coaches the game to go down to the wire...he does not coach a game to just plain BEAT someone.

Its pathetic

[Piledriven]

So, you're saying you don't just want wins, you want blowout wins? You're not satisfied with a 'W', you want to win by at least 3 touchdowns? So, the Patriots Super Bowl wins don't count because they only won by 3 points in each of them? Those aren't 'really' wins?

This team lost several close games last year. So far, they've won two close ones and were a touchdown away from sending the third one into overtime. Is that not progress?

I like wins, yes. But I am not satisfied with the direction this team is going when we BARELY won those games... You wait and see...by the end week 17 we will be all disappointed again...talking about next year this and that.

Trust.

[Beauty is Only]

I DO know what I know...GIBBS SCREWED THE GAME! He has NO SWAGGER and it reflects in his team. Even his own players know and admit openly that hhe coaches the game to go down to the wire...he does not coach a game to just plain BEAT someone.

Its pathetic

Please provide links where players have publicly stated that Gibbs coaches in such a manner.

Do you seriously believe that Gibbs and his coaching staff try to come up with a game plan in which the 'Skins just squeak by each game? Do you think Gibbs feels sorry for other teams? Is he trying to build up the opponents' self-esteem by making them believe (just before he wins the game in the late fourth quarter or overtime) they can hang with the Redskins?

It appears to me that you are far more worried about this coach/team's public image as opposed to what this coach/team actually is. There are hotly-debated gray areas in football, but this much is true: a win is a win, a loss is a loss. You are your record.

I like wins, yes. But I am not satisfied with the direction this team is going when we BARELY won those games... You wait and see...by the end week 17 we will be all disappointed again...talking about next year this and that.

Trust.

Teams don't BARELY win. They either you win or they don't. Would you prefer the 'Skins lose every game and LOOK good, or win?

[Piledriven]

Please provide links where players have publicly stated that Gibbs coaches in such a manner.

Last week, Chris Cooley came out and said it straight up on the John Riggins radio show...I heard him and so did everyone else listening to the show that day...

[Piledriven]

Do you seriously believe that Gibbs and his coaching staff try to come up with a game plan in which the 'Skins just squeak by each game? Do you think Gibbs feels sorry for other teams? Is he trying to build up the opponents' self-esteem by making them believe (just before he wins the game in the late fourth quarter or overtime) they can hang with the Redskins?

YES! I do believe that Gibbs coaches EVERY game to just SQUEAK by opponents. His coaching, his calls, his poor time management all reflect on how he is trying to dictate the ball game. In fact, he, HIMSELF, Joe Gibbs, said it himself on NBC4 monday evening to Sonny and George Michael that "this game is going to come down to the final play in fact EVERY game is going to come down to the wire." He said it himself man, I do not need to sit here and think that up, its the FACTS!

I do not think he feels sorry for other teams, no. But at times it seems like he feels sorry FOR HIS OWN TEAM! The way he always talks about "how good the opponent is" does not seem to show me ANY confidence in his own team. It shows me that he does not have faith in his team/players to be able to tell people/media that he is confident that they will come out victorious. He builds these other teams up, so when we lose a close one the team/players can just say "well coach said they were a good football team and we would have to play mistake-free football in order to win."

Why not just build their confience and your own confidence and let them go out there and just play. Let them beat an opponent so bad that every time another team comes into FedEx field, they will be intimidated b/c of what the Skins did to the last team there.

Here is a stat for you...look it up. The Redskins have lost 6 of their last 8 games at home when they lead at halftime. What does that tell you...? It tells me that Gibbs has accepted this style of coaching and that he will continue to find ways to lose when we have the opportunity to put games away.

I hope you are ready to continue to deal with another losing season. That is where we are headed...even sitting at 2-1 right now.

:2cents:

[Piledriven]

Teams don't BARELY win. They either you win or they don't. Would you prefer the 'Skins lose every game and LOOK good, or win?

I would rather see them win... dont get that mixed up.

But when they lose I would much rather see them just get beat...not see them gain a comfortable lead and then blow it in the second half. Especially when it is due to poor coaching. I am NOT a Joe Gibbs fan at all and I will not stand behind a guy who consistantly makes poor coaching decisions when the game is on the line.

Every Sunday though, I expect to see the Redskins look good. Maybe I am looking too hard, but I find it hard to find much GOOD in the way they have played so far this season...with the exception of moments in the Philly game. The fact of the matter is that we have got the talent on this team but the coaching staff puts a poor product on the field IMO. It is a reflection of the way they run this team. The coaching staff is too soft on these guys and training camp is run like some three ring circus...

We are WAY too soft. (Except for Sean Taylor)

:2cents:

[pjfootballer]

Others evaluated and came up with different conclusions.

And that's why this is a message board. We all can state our opinions and views, whether someone thinks it's right or not.

[pjfootballer]

Last week, Chris Cooley came out and said it straight up on the John Riggins radio show...I heard him and so did everyone else listening to the show that day...

Also, Portis on 980 radio and Randle El on NFL Network.

[illone]

Ah screw it...you chicken littles will never change.

Best post in the history of ES.

:applause: