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Memo to Joe


Uno Mas

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I know we've harped on this already. But as we face another season of mediocrity we have to ask the question why? Has Gibbs lost it (possibly) or would any coach be handicapped by personnel mistakes? Every team makes mistakes but the Skins seem to have more than their share especially with trades/free agents.

When Gibbs first came back he gave up an extra second rounder to get Portis in the trade with Denver. He gave up $10million for AA who couldn't even crack the starting lineup. He gave up a 3rd and 4th round pick for TJ Duckett who couldn't crack the starting lineup. He gave up another 3rd and 4th round pick for Brandon Lloyd another player that can't get into the starting lineup. These four personnel mistakes alone cost the team $20 million plus one second round pick, two third round picks and two fourth round picks.

That's five potential starters that the Skins missed out on. You only have to go back over the drafts of the last few years to see the quality of players that were available for the Skins.

So when the starter goes down the Skins have to go scrambling into the cast off bin for new players - see most recently the OL and WRs for the Skins. The worst thing is that there is little basis for hope in the future. Skins lack sufficient talent at many positions, e.g., WR, DE and to a lesser extent DT. But, many of the quality players are getting too old or are entering the contract escalation years, e.g., Griffin, Springs, Portis (contract), Samuels (contract), Jansen (career ending injury?). Skins don't have enough draft picks to address current weakness let alone replace departing players or create depth.

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2-1 is mediocre?

Hindsight is 50/50 and isn't a valid reason at all.

And the only reason it appears the Skins make more mistakes, is because you follow them a lot more closely than you do any other team.

God forbid we take into account that Gibbs has done pretty good with the draft picks available.

Arch. was a bad move, it happens. However, I can't fault Gibbs and Co. for going after Lloyd. Lack of receivers cost us in the playoffs the season before we brought in Lloyd. Now the reports are Lloyd is inconsistent and doesn't fully partcipate or practice. The coaches probably thought they could change that. They got Montgomery to focus, same with Taylor and other players. Missing one time I can't fault them for.

Enough with the Champ Bailey crap. The argument is old and tired, and those who think we "got robbed" never will understand that Champ WANTED OUT. He wasn't as good then as he is now, and CP has set a franchise record with us, gotten us to the playoffs, and so far has a rushing TD in every game this season.

Duckett came in before the Betts extension was done. My reasoning is that up until that point, Betts hadn't done jack. Duckett, IMO, was brought in to be the back-up to CP for the future. Betts wasn't going to be re-signed. Then, CP goes down, Betts is in trouble of losing his job, and Betts finally stepped up. Duckett, though limited in opportunities, didn't really step up when given the chance. TJ hasn't done jack in Detroit either.

Extra draft picks doesn't guarantee starters, nor does it guarantee good players. Gibbs way already got us a winning season and the playoffs. So his way can be succesful, and hopefully will be this season. Also, pointing out 3 mistakes doesn't mean the team is full of them. Look at the Jets draft history, and you'll get a good example of why the draft isn't the end-all be-all to success in the NFL, why there are no guarantees in the draft, and also you'll get a good example of true ineptness.

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I know we've harped on this already. But as we face another season of mediocrity we have to ask the question why?

1. The fact that you admitted this has already been talked about before and you still started a thread means in my opinion the MODs should make an example of you

2. Going into our 4th game of the season having only lost 1 and our record puts us in the top 10 in the NFL does not mean we are Mediocre. Just because we lost a game to the Giants by playing conservative doesn't prove we are mediocre either.

3. What kind of Redskins fan are you anyways? a TRUE redskins fan doesn't abandon the ship after 1 loss. There has been 32 years since the Dolphins went undefeated and no other team has managed to do the same, so what does that say. EVEN THE BEST TEAMS LOSE GAMES, and I will even go out on a limb and say some of the best teams ever have lost a game they shouldn't have.

Now Sit back and have a beer and enoy the rest of the season and let's not talk about how the team is doing in a negative way until we have lost more than 5 games. 11-5 in the NFC is still a guaranteed playoff spot.

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I know we've harped on this already. But as we face another season of mediocrity we have to ask the question why? Has Gibbs lost it (possibly) or would any coach be handicapped by personnel mistakes? Every team makes mistakes but the Skins seem to have more than their share especially with trades/free agents.

When Gibbs first came back he gave up an extra second rounder to get Portis in the trade with Denver. He gave up $10million for AA who couldn't even crack the starting lineup. He gave up a 3rd and 4th round pick for TJ Duckett who couldn't crack the starting lineup. He gave up another 3rd and 4th round pick for Brandon Lloyd another player that can't get into the starting lineup. These four personnel mistakes alone cost the team $20 million plus one second round pick, two third round picks and two fourth round picks.

That's five potential starters that the Skins missed out on. You only have to go back over the drafts of the last few years to see the quality of players that were available for the Skins.

So when the starter goes down the Skins have to go scrambling into the cast off bin for new players - see most recently the OL and WRs for the Skins. The worst thing is that there is little basis for hope in the future. Skins lack sufficient talent at many positions, e.g., WR, DE and to a lesser extent DT. But, many of the quality players are getting too old or are entering the contract escalation years, e.g., Griffin, Springs, Portis (contract), Samuels (contract), Jansen (career ending injury?). Skins don't have enough draft picks to address current weakness let alone replace departing players or create depth.

Given the fact the Redskins are signing veteran castoff receivers shows me that they have no confidence in the intact receiving corps.

C'mon, Keenan Mcardell? Reche Caldwell? Draft well = strong depth but the Skins don't have decent depth on the offense. For crying out loud, we wasted a 5th and 7th rounders THIS YEAR (Sartz and Palmer). Maurice Colston was a 7th rounder!

Yeah, I'm not happy either. . .

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2-1 is mediocre?

Hindsight is 50/50 and isn't a valid reason at all.

QUOTE]

Then stop beating a dead horse. We lose one game then have to endure two weeks of commotion as everyone jumps off the bandwagon.
1. The fact that you admitted this has already been talked about before and you still started a thread means in my opinion the MODs should make an example of you

2. Going into our 4th game of the season having only lost 1 and our record puts us in the top 10 in the NFL does not mean we are Mediocre. Just because we lost a game to the Giants by playing conservative doesn't prove we are mediocre either.

3. What kind of Redskins fan are you anyways? a TRUE redskins fan doesn't abandon the ship after 1 loss. There has been 32 years since the Dolphins went undefeated and no other team has managed to do the same, so what does that say. EVEN THE BEST TEAMS LOSE GAMES, and I will even go out on a limb and say some of the best teams ever have lost a game they shouldn't have.

Now Sit back and have a beer and enoy the rest of the season and let's not talk about how the team is doing in a negative way until we have lost more than 5 games. 11-5 in the NFC is still a guaranteed playoff spot.

Open your eyes people! This team is damn lucky its not 0-3.

We were a coinflip away from losing in overtime to the 0-4 Dolphins.

If Andy Reid doesnt give us a gift of a timeout in the second quarter of the Eagles game, Dumbass Joe would have kicked a fieldgoal rather than give Campbell an opportunity to score. That one play, it turns out, was a difference maker. Thank you Andy Reid.

And we all know about the Giants game.

The OP has very good points, you people are just a bunch of cows, blindly following the Snyder/Gibbs herd. :puke:

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2-1 is mediocre?

Hindsight is 50/50 and isn't a valid reason at all.

QUOTE]

Open your eyes people! This team is damn lucky its not 0-3.

We were a coinflip away from losing in overtime to the 0-4 Dolphins.

If Andy Reid doesnt give us a gift of a timeout in the second quarter of the Eagles game, Dumbass Joe would have kicked a fieldgoal rather than give Campbell an opportunity to score. That one play, it turns out, was a difference maker. Thank you Andy Reid.

And we all know about the Giants game.

The OP has very good points, you people are just a bunch of cows, blindly following the Snyder/Gibbs herd. :puke:

Thank god you are here to wake us all up?

Maybe you forgot that we LOST every close situation last season.

For every bad move JG has made personel wise he has made 4 good ones. Anyone notice our LB corps, 1 draft and 2 FA's. Anyone notice our Starting left guard. Anyone notice our slot receiver and QB and TE and

ooo I am sick of trying.

Here is what it comes down to. Money means nothing to our franchise.

Have faith in Gibbs.

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If Andy Reid doesnt give us a gift of a timeout in the second quarter of the Eagles game, Dumbass Joe would have kicked a fieldgoal rather than give Campbell an opportunity to score.

If we don't tolerate this kind of ignorant crap from others why should we have to from someone claiming to be a Skins fan? Dude, you need to be tazed.

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1. The fact that you admitted this has already been talked about before and you still started a thread means in my opinion the MODs should make an example of you. Huzza

2. Going into our 4th game of the season having only lost 1 and our record puts us in the top 10 in the NFL does not mean we are Mediocre. Just because we lost a game to the Giants by playing conservative doesn't prove we are mediocre either. Losing one doesn't make the team mediocre. They are mediocre despit the wins. Think back to when you watched the games. They won two games by a very thin margin. Last year the Skins had a terrible record but established a dominant running game toward the end of the season. This year 60% of the previous starters on the OL are gone and Skins can't let Betts get enough carries to get him in the groove. They rarely scored 21 points last year and haven't yet this year

3. What kind of Redskins fan are you anyways? a TRUE redskins fan doesn't abandon the ship after 1 loss. There has been 32 years since the Dolphins went undefeated and no other team has managed to do the same, so what does that say. EVEN THE BEST TEAMS LOSE GAMES, and I will even go out on a limb and say some of the best teams ever have lost a game they shouldn't have. I've been a Skins fan for longer than you have been alive. But I'm not drinking the kool aid and neither do former Skins players!

Now Sit back and have a beer and enoy the rest of the season and let's not talk about how the team is doing in a negative way until we have lost more than 5 games. 11-5 in the NFC is still a guaranteed playoff spot. I intend to sit back and enjoy my beer this Sunday. I, like many fans, will root for the Skins to win throughout the season. But I'm tired of seeing the Skins make the same mistakes over and over again and have to rely upon blind hope for things to get better.QUOTE]

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The 2007 Patriots have 2 Rookies on their 53 man roster and 1 on their Practice squad out of 9 picks from last year. Oh, and 1 of the 2 on the active roster was an undrafted rookie.

The draft doesn't guarantee starters. Don't even state that the redskins missed out on 5 starters from those picks. Even first round picks have become BUSTS.

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This is the exact reason why this team (DESPERATELY!) needs a real GM. This is also what happens when you try to hit the home run in free agency while steadily ignoring the draft instead of building through the draft and grooming those selections, and using free agency as a complimentary tool.

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Thank god you are here to wake us all up?

Maybe you forgot that we LOST every close situation last season. That's encouraging?

For every bad move JG has made personel wise he has made 4 good ones. Anyone notice our LB corps, 1 draft and 2 FA's. Anyone notice our Starting left guard. Anyone notice our slot receiver and QB and TE and

ooo I am sick of trying. 4 good decisions? Please. The Skins LB core was so bad that they changed 2/3 of the starters. But they didn't get around to fixing the problem until the season was already over. The Skins starting LG is a short term solution but he was a major factor in the Skins not being able to get into the end zone on the last plays against the Giants. It's not Betts' fault that the OL was pushed back on two running plays.

Our TE was a great pickup. The jury is still out on Randel El - is he a legitimate #2? Is he worth the money compared with other WRs on other teams? He had one non-productive year so hopefully this year he'll continue his progression. Unfortunately, even the players that they pick that do succeed come at an outrageous price. Skins traded extra picks to get both McIntosh and Campbell. I like the Skins QB but if you asked a personnel director whether you should have a first round pick sit for three years they would say no. A better value would have been in the second or even third rounds.

Here is what it comes down to. Money means nothing to our franchise. We can agree on that.

Have faith in Gibbs. When does your faith run out? He's in year four. They still can't get to 21 points per game. Norv Turner had a better record for the Skins than Gibbs!!!!! Stop living in the past.

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2-1 is mediocre?

Hindsight is 50/50 and isn't a valid reason at all.

And the only reason it appears the Skins make more mistakes, is because you follow them a lot more closely than you do any other team.

God forbid we take into account that Gibbs has done pretty good with the draft picks available.

Arch. was a bad move, it happens. However, I can't fault Gibbs and Co. for going after Lloyd. Lack of receivers cost us in the playoffs the season before we brought in Lloyd. Now the reports are Lloyd is inconsistent and doesn't fully partcipate or practice. The coaches probably thought they could change that. They got Montgomery to focus, same with Taylor and other players. Missing one time I can't fault them for.

Enough with the Champ Bailey crap. The argument is old and tired, and those who think we "got robbed" never will understand that Champ WANTED OUT. He wasn't as good then as he is now, and CP has set a franchise record with us, gotten us to the playoffs, and so far has a rushing TD in every game this season.

Duckett came in before the Betts extension was done. My reasoning is that up until that point, Betts hadn't done jack. Duckett, IMO, was brought in to be the back-up to CP for the future. Betts wasn't going to be re-signed. Then, CP goes down, Betts is in trouble of losing his job, and Betts finally stepped up. Duckett, though limited in opportunities, didn't really step up when given the chance. TJ hasn't done jack in Detroit either.

Extra draft picks doesn't guarantee starters, nor does it guarantee good players. Gibbs way already got us a winning season and the playoffs. So his way can be succesful, and hopefully will be this season. Also, pointing out 3 mistakes doesn't mean the team is full of them. Look at the Jets draft history, and you'll get a good example of why the draft isn't the end-all be-all to success in the NFL, why there are no guarantees in the draft, and also you'll get a good example of true ineptness.

Excellent post!!!!:applause:
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1. The fact that you admitted this has already been talked about before and you still started a thread means in my opinion the MODs should make an example of you.

:applause: I agree wholeheartedly! The OP should receive a NNT. There are a million Gibbs Sucks threads already. It's the same crap over and over.

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Huzza
:whoknows:
Losing one doesn't make the team mediocre. They are mediocre despit the wins. Think back to when you watched the games. They won two games by a very thin margin. Last year the Skins had a terrible record but established a dominant running game toward the end of the season. This year 60% of the previous starters on the OL are gone and Skins can't let Betts get enough carries to get him in the groove. They rarely scored 21 points last year and haven't yet this year
Since win did the rules say we have to score 21 points to win. The last time I checked the way to win is to just score more points that your opponent has and if our Defense can keep them from scoring then we do not need to score often.
I've been a Skins fan for longer than you have been alive. But I'm not drinking the kool aid and neither do former Skins players!

Nobody said you have to drink the Kool Aid but you also do not need to yell fire in a crowded theater either.

I intend to sit back and enjoy my beer this Sunday. I, like many fans, will root for the Skins to win throughout the season. But I'm tired of seeing the Skins make the same mistakes over and over again and have to rely upon blind hope for things to get better.

Well I hate that you think redskins rely on blind hope, because I actually feel they rely on the talent of the team. The only thing that has really killed us this year on offense is the dropped passes but looking around the league it seems to be a bunch of that happening.

QUOTE]

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2-1 is mediocre?

Hindsight is 50/50 and isn't a valid reason at all.

QUOTE]

Open your eyes people! This team is damn lucky its not 0-3.

We were a coinflip away from losing in overtime to the 0-4 Dolphins.

If Andy Reid doesnt give us a gift of a timeout in the second quarter of the Eagles game, Dumbass Joe would have kicked a fieldgoal rather than give Campbell an opportunity to score. That one play, it turns out, was a difference maker. Thank you Andy Reid.

And we all know about the Giants game.

The OP has very good points, you people are just a bunch of cows, blindly following the Snyder/Gibbs herd. :puke:

If you say we could easily be 0-3, I can just as easily say we could be 3-0, with decisive wins. If Smoot holds on to that INT against Miami, if Santana hauls in the long bomb against Philly, if Rogers makes that tackle on Burress, if Betts gets across the goal line against NY. If and buts aren't a determining factor, so quit pretending they are.

You don't know what Joe Gibbs would have done, and making assumptions (and adding insult to a great coach) means that rule about assumptions is exactly true in your case. But go ahead and give thanks to Reid, instead of the D for not allowing a single TD, or to Cooley for that great TD catch, or to CP for his TD run. The OP has rehashed points that have been argued non-stop even before the season began. Of course giving praise to Reid and insulting Gibbs, it's quite easy to see where your loyalties lie. Look for me on here at the end of the season when we make the playoffs. I'll be the one saying I told you so to all you supposed "realists." Which, by the way, I don't understand how you are being "real" when most of the "realists" operate on hindsight and gross assumptions.

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If you say we could easily be 0-3, I can just as easily say we could be 3-0, with decisive wins. You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

If Smoot holds on to that INT against Miami,

No Overtime & questions about a field goal on 1st down.

if Santana hauls in the long bomb against Philly,

BLOWOUT VICTORY

if Betts gets across the goal line against NY.

UNDEFEATED BABY!

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Elkabong82 writes "If you say we could easily be 0-3, I can just as easily say we could be 3-0, with decisive wins. If Smoot holds on to that INT against Miami, if Santana hauls in the long bomb against Philly, if Rogers makes that tackle on Burress, if Betts gets across the goal line against NY. If and buts aren't a determining factor, so quit pretending they are."

No one's arguing about ifs and buts. The Skins didn't blow anyone away in the 2 wins and they weren't blown away in the loss. The Defense appears better than last year while the Offense may be worse (Campbell better, OL worse, WRs same). The Skins had a losing season last year. Have you seen anything yet that indicates that the Skins are likely to be better than 8:8 or 9:7? That record would be mediocre and exactly my point. The Skins are what they are. If they don't improve on execution/playcalling whatever you aren't going to be looking at 11:5 and playoffs. I just don't think they've got the talent to execute.

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Given the fact the Redskins are signing veteran castoff receivers shows me that they have no confidence in the intact receiving corps.

C'mon, Keenan Mcardell? Reche Caldwell? Draft well = strong depth but the Skins don't have decent depth on the offense. For crying out loud, we wasted a 5th and 7th rounders THIS YEAR (Sartz and Palmer). Maurice Colston was a 7th rounder!

Yeah, I'm not happy either. . .

Why don't you research how many teams have their 5th and 7th rounders work out for them in a decade. Obviously, since you're showing your ignorance quite brillantly here, you will be shocked to find that for every Tom Brady that is taken in the late rounds of the draft, there are over 1000 busts that never even make the roster. And that is only counting the past ten drafts.:doh:
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2-1 is mediocre?

2-1 means nothing. When you get further into the season is when you see the true colors of the team. San Fran went 2-1 and I don't think anyone here can really can consider them contenders yet. We're not contenders...at least not yet. I personally don't think we are a mediocre team this year, but one more injury anywhere would definitely make us one.

His point is that we lack true solid depth because we keep signing high dollar, under performing FA's. But I'm sure no one agrees that Portis is one of them..he was worth it since we were going to lose Champ anyways. But if you look at the Snyder tenure as a whole, yes, the Skins have been uber-mediocre.

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