RUMOR: Brunell TO SEAHAWKS!!!!! (merged)

[ncr2h]

Wow, 2 more TDs. Yeah, good argument there. Oh, except the Skins o-line was doing well when when Campbell was in, and we actually had a run game because Betts was able to hit the giant holes being opened. That ties directly in with my run-game argument, but keep trying.

How pathetic is it that whenever Brunell's name is mentioned, you come in trumpeting how much he sucks, and how he has a "noodle-arm" etc. It's overkill, it's unneccesary, and shows in your character that you are an *******. I don't like to call people names on here because I believe you can get a point across without doing so. You, on the other hand, can never get your point across without slandering the man. I'd like to see if you had the balls to actually say half the insults to Brunell's face.

And Brunell's record with us last year was better than Campbell's, so what are you trying to say there? See, I can skew stats also.

Horrendous in preseason? Put your bias aside and actually watch the game. His passes have been efficient, he led a drive against the Ravens that was only halted by his receivers dropping balls. Last night he looked sharp also, and the TD pass he had was a downfield pass. Perhaps if you weren't so bust pretending name-calling equals a valid argument you could actually watch a game without having temper-tantrums about Brunell.

Oh, and let's look at this 75% stat you spew in every Brunell thread. I know your source is ESPN, and I know your source is the "splits" category under stats,

Brunell in '06: 1-10 yards: 59 of 90 11-20 yards: 50 of 90 21-30 yards: 46 of 70 31-40 yards: 7 of 10

Equaling: 162 out of 260 completed, and 90 of 260 attempted were 10 yards or less. I'm no mathemetician, but 90 out of 260 isn't 75%.

Campbell in '06: 1-10 yards: 37 of 70 11-20: 38 of 70 21-30: 29 of 54 31-40: 6 of 13

Equaling: 110 out of 207 completed, and 70 out of 207 were 10 yards or less.

So, JC had only 3 more pass attempts of 31 yards or more. 34.6% of MBs pass attempts were 10 yards or less, 33.8% of JCs pass attempts were 10 yards or less.

Oh, and it's not that he threw the ball 2 yards and the receiver took it 20 yards, because then you couldn't calcualte attempts over 10 yards that were unsuccesful because you'd have no idea how far an unsuccesful play was intended to go.

Care to actually explain where you got 75% from?

I didn't know preseason play meant proof one QB who hasn't thrown an NFL pass in awhile was better than a QB who has.

This is an example of powerful posting.

[[[ghost]]]

A draft pick coming our way? I forget what that is like.

Watch is be a 7th rounder in 2032. Its Brunell after all.

If he is gone, I'll miss him. He was good while he was here, and he did his best with his aging arm. All of us will still remember 2005 because of him.

[pjfootballer]

I just got here. Man, my head is spinning after seeing this. Why would they move Seneca Wallace to TE? Isn't he a little small? WR maybe.

[elkabong82]

This is an example of powerful posting.

Thanks. He and I had this argument before, and I showed these stats. He ignore them then, I'm hoping he won't this time, and will actually show me where he got 75% from.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

And despite all this, he had a better winning % than Campbell as starter. And he completed more 20 yard passes per game than Campbell. He is a backup, dude..

oh wow, he won one more game, exciting.

and a "20 yard pass" for brunell consists of him throwing to moss in the flats and juking everyone out. he only completed 12 passes thrown 20 yards or more.

Campbell sucks worse than Brunell, then. His record last year says so.

I agree, his record in road games against division rivals sucks, and is an area that needs to be improved.

campbell throwing more touchdowns in less games is why hes better. campbell moving the ball and hitting the middle of the field is why hes better. him throwing a touchdown in every single game he started is why hes better. sure, campbells completion percentage was worse, he wasnt throwing dumpoffs all day long.

Just admit that you hate him personally and can't be objective while watching him, and keep it moving. It's kind of sad how worked up we're all getting about a backup QB. Are you getting this upset about how Montgomery is outplaying Golston in the preseason, and yet Golston will probably be the #2 DT going into the season? Nobody gives a **** about that. And yet that battle will have a lot more impact than the "battle" for backup QB..

why would i hate brunell?? i have no reason to hate a player other than judging his performance. watching him suck makes me not like him, because he sucks. i dont care how classy he is, he cant get it done anymore. and as a backup he'd be good for dump offs and short passes. thats about it.

As for Brunell's numbers during the preseason...he has been hamstrung by his scrub receivers' inablity to hold onto the ball. He's been throwing to receivers that won't even make the REDSKINS as a RECEIVER. Think about that for a second. Our STARTING receivers are pretty bad. Our #4 receiver is James Thrash, and he looks like Art Monk compared to some of these guys. The fact of the matter is that Brunell has consistently hit his receivers in the hands throughout the preseason, they just have not been holding onto the ball. Brunell has been holding up his end of the bargain, as far as I'm concerned..

oh right, its the receivers now. so his 9/23 and an INT is our receivers fault. care to blame anyone else?

And finally, Brunell's TD pass yesterday was quite possibly the best throw we've had during the entire preseason.

wrong, collins pass to lloyd in the back of the endzone was the best pass of the preseason.

[elkabong82]

]']Watch is be a 7th rounder in 2032. Its Brunell after all.

If he is gone' date=' I'll miss him. He was good while he was here, and he did his best with his aging arm. All of us will still remember 2005 because of him.[/quote']

I was wondering that too. Last season the Seahawks won games with Seneca as QB, and without Alexander in to boot. NFL.com has him listed at 5'11" and 196 lbs.

[turbodiesel#44]

His INT-TD ratio is good because he NEVER throws risky passes. He never takes calculated risks, and he never gambles. This is the main reason why he never throws deep, why we never have long pass plays, and why we NEVER CONVERT 3rd DOWNS. Sure he avoids throwing INTs like the plague, but the risks that he fails to take - the risks that most NFL QBs are willing and physically able to take - cost us a large number of potentially scored points in every game. THIS is one of the main reasons why we lose. You wanna quote his LOW INTs, you can't ignore the LOW amount of points he generates for this team. It's a miracle when we break 20 points under Brunell. When the game is on the line, like in the Tennesee game, he can't drive the ball down the field, and he can't run a 2-minute offense, because he is physically incapable of making the necessary throws. A smart vet QB shouldn't throw to a triple covered santana moss, effectively ending our season. He can't make things happen.

Unless we're up by 14, any game he comes in as a backup can be chalked up as a Loss. There is nothing he can do that someone else on our roster can't do. If we can get trade value for him - TAKE IT.

I think that is a good summary. MB is a servicable #2, but Collins has outplayed him for that spot. MB is not a #3. It is too much load on the cap for a #3 to make anything over minumum because he will never see the ball. He will take a valuable roster spot that the team could use on a player who might actually see the field and contribute. ARE can be an emergency QB if needed, then we would probably find somebody other than pulling Palmer off the PS to finish the season. Palmer looked horrible, but a #3 seeing the field means we are toast anyway, so who cares.

We get nothing if MB gets cut or retires next year. If we can get any value for him, we should take it.

[elkabong82]

oh wow, he won one more game, exciting.

and a "20 yard pass" for brunell consists of him throwing to moss in the flats and juking everyone out. he only completed 12 passes thrown 20 yards or more.

campbell throwing more touchdowns in less games is why hes better. campbell moving the ball and hitting the middle of the field is why hes better. him throwing a touchdown in every single game he started is why hes better. sure, campbells completion percentage was worse, he wasnt throwing dumpoffs all day long.

why would i hate brunell?? i have no reason to hate a player other than judging his performance. watching him suck makes me not like him, because he sucks. i dont care how classy he is, he cant get it done anymore. and as a backup he'd be good for dump offs and short passes. thats about it.

oh right, its the receivers now. so his 9/23 and an INT is our receivers fault. care to blame anyone else?

wrong, collins pass to lloyd in the back of the endzone was the best pass of the preseason.

So you bash Brunell for winning one more game, but praise JC for throwing 2 more TDs?

And if they were screen passes, then how do they know if a pass attempt failed is over 20, 30, and 40 yards? I thought I already pointed that out.

Still waiting to hear where you got 75% from. My stats show Brunell completed53 of 80 passes of 21+ yards, where did you get your stats from then?

And Campbell's TD pass to Randle El was the nicest.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

from espn splits:

passes thrown behind line: 70 attempts, 52 completions

passes thrown 1-10 yards: 119 attempts, 83 completions

119+70= 189

he threw 260 total passes

189/260 = 72.6% so id round to 73%. my 75% was two off, my apologies.

again, this is PASSES THROWN THROUGH THE AIR, im not talking about passes where he throws to portis in the backfield who runs for 78 yards and brunell gets credit for a pass, thats all the dude can do.

[jaxskinsville]

The real story of the Redskins this year is all the Brunell talk. I would be willing to bet that 40% or more of all threads and posts this pre-season were about MB and he's never been considered to be #1 this year.

The poor souls who want to blame MB for everything try to use stats for their arguments but, the stats show otherwise. Then they constantly say he doesn't throw further than 10 yrds and yet the highlights show he does when the opportunity is there. He doesn't commit turnovers because he doesn't take risks, they say and yet, anyone who knows anything about the game knows that the teams that win regularly do two things: Manage the clock and keep the ball (no turnovers).

All of this negative response to Brunell is emotional. Do you hate him because he is a good guy? How about because he's a Christian? It is unknown why you Brunell Bashers continue in your absurd quest but, it is quite clear that it is not realistic and fact driven. Sub-consciously blaming MB for all the troubles you have in your life isn't going to make those troubles go away. This team needs MB right now and it's a shame you are to emotionally unstable to see that.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

So you bash Brunell for winning one more game, but praise JC for throwing 2 more TDs?

And if they were screen passes, then how do they know if a pass attempt failed is over 20, 30, and 40 yards? I thought I already pointed that out.

Still waiting to hear where you got 75% from. My stats show Brunell completed53 of 80 passes of 21+ yards, where did you get your stats from then?

And Campbell's TD pass to Randle El was the nicest.

i honestly dont think wins for a QB are legit with our defense being so bad, so we can get off that wagon. but 8 TDs in 9 games vs 10 tds in 7 games is a difference. a TD every game is a big difference, mark had 4 starts without a TD. the guy just wasnt good man, youre literally the only person on this board who loves defending him, this other dude with you came out of the woodwork, hes probably brunells neighbor because boonell lives in great falls as well haha (kidding, lets not get worked up).

im pretty sure the numbers youre posting take into account where brunell dumped the ball off, and a guy made a nice play and gained yards. again, his pass to portis was for 78 yards, but he threw the ball backwards. it was considered a "pass" but it was all portis. brunell doesnt hit guys deep like he did in 05, probably because he cant. he tried to last year in the second dallas game, it was painful to watch.

[elkabong82]

from espn splits:

passes thrown behind line: 70 attempts, 52 completions

passes thrown 1-10 yards: 119 attempts, 83 completions

119+70= 189

he threw 260 total passes

189/260 = 72.6% so id round to 73%. my 75% was two off, my apologies.

again, this is PASSES THROWN THROUGH THE AIR, im not talking about passes where he throws to portis in the backfield who runs for 78 yards and brunell gets credit for a pass, thats all the dude can do.

I see what part you are talking about now. I saw the first part of pass attempts and believed that was it. How do they now a pass attempt failed was 40+ on a screen play? etc.?

Anyways, let's actually compare Brunell and Campbell, because as I've said, Saunders said his play calling is about getting the ball into the hands of receivers and letting them make the plays.

Brunell: Behind line- 52/70 1-10 yards- 83/119 11-20yards- 15/44 21-30yards- 9/19 31-40yards- 2/7 41+yards- 1/1

JC: Behind line- 23/34 1-10yards- 57/91 11-20yards- 25/51 21-30yards 2/16 31-40yards- 3/7 41+ yards- 0/8

So it appears that just like Brunell, the play calling for JC had most of the passes 10 yards or under. In fact, all starting QBs have the majority of their throws go 10 yards or less. The only area where JC had significantly more success than Brunell was 11-20 yard range. Seeing as Campbell was 0/8 on 40+ yard throws, where did this magical deep threat come from?

Or could it just be that since most of the numbers are similar percentage-wise as far as attempts go, that the playcalling had more to do with it? Could it be that, just like in '05, the o-line performed better in the second half, thus the run game expanded. Brunell was significantly better than Campbell in the 20-30 yard range, so the over the middle and "noodle-arm" arguments don't make a whole lot of sense. Could it be you again are skewing and cherry picking statistics becuase of your bias? (oh and I wasn't because my mentioning Brunell in '05 was in response, again, to SoCal claiming he sucked in '05.)

[Peregrine]

Its funny how the biggest news on this board, the headline of headlines, that gets everyone talking, and excited, is us trading away our 3rd string QB, irregardless of what we get in return.

LOL

[elkabong82]

Just for fun, here are Peyton Mannings:

Behind: 44/69

1-10: 204/287

11-20: 85/126

21-30: 16/43

31-40: 11/23

41+: 2/9

That's 362/557 total. 356 of Peyton's passes attempted were 10 yards or less (including behind the line) for 64%.

So Brunell threw 10 yards or less pass attempts 73%, JC was 60%, and Peyton 64%. So by your logic JC is a better QB than Peyton was last year.

[jaxskinsville]

Just because I live in Jax doesn't mean I automatically support Brunell. I have never cared for the Jagwads. I have been a Skins fan all my life, it is a family tradition. Our cars are Burgandy and Gold. Our garage is decorated in B&G. I can't remember ever having a family get-together without long discussions about the Skins even in the middle of summer. Our obsession with our team rivals any one else on this board. Don't discount us just because we live where MB lives. Don't know the guy, never met him, and singularly, could care less about him. I don't support Brunell, I support our team. Right now, this teams needs him.

[elkabong82]

i honestly dont think wins for a QB are legit with our defense being so bad, so we can get off that wagon. but 8 TDs in 9 games vs 10 tds in 7 games is a difference. a TD every game is a big difference, mark had 4 starts without a TD. the guy just wasnt good man, youre literally the only person on this board who loves defending him, this other dude with you came out of the woodwork, hes probably brunells neighbor because boonell lives in great falls as well haha (kidding, lets not get worked up).

im pretty sure the numbers youre posting take into account where brunell dumped the ball off, and a guy made a nice play and gained yards. again, his pass to portis was for 78 yards, but he threw the ball backwards. it was considered a "pass" but it was all portis. brunell doesnt hit guys deep like he did in 05, probably because he cant. he tried to last year in the second dallas game, it was painful to watch.

And that's what Saunders said he does, is get the ball in the hands of playmakers, and let them make plays. That is what the playcalling had them do. I believe the fact JC had less passes behind the line is more proof that Saunders realized the screens weren't working effectively and that Betts couldn't do with the ball what Portis can.

And by your argument, it was all Westbrook last year, not Garcia.

I was at the Dallas game, and it was actually pretyy fun to watch. I can tell you Dallas was pass-interfering all day long, and got called on it more than a few times. Our D and Novak missing field goals let Dallas back in the game, not Brunell.

And thanks for admitting he was hitting guys deep in '05, becuase many posters on here won't admit that and act like he never has been able to throw a deep ball. If you saw the probowl skill competition after the '04 season, Brunell was actually throwing the ball deeper than all but 3 of the QBs in that competition. (I believe Carson Palmer won it)

[elkabong82]

This is even better:

Let's compare Brunell to actual other starting QBs. You know, instead of just showing one stat to try and give off the perception Brunell is bad.

Passes of 1-10 yards and behind the line are included, thus, all pass attempts of 10 yards or less are accounted for. This takes care of your claim that Brunell threw 75% of his passes 10 yards or less. We will then compare that number to the total number of passes attempted to get our percentage. Duh.

Brunell: 189 of 260 passes attempted were 10 yards or less.

Jason Campbell: 125 of 207 passes attempted were 10 yards or less.

Peyton Manning: 356 of 557 passes attempted were 10 yards or less.

Carson Palmer: 337 of 520 passes attempted were 10 yards or less.

Tom Brady: 372 of 516 passes attempted were 10 yards or less.

This means:

Brunell: 73%

Jason Campbell: 60%

Peyton Manning: 64%

Carson Palmer: 65%

Tom Brady: 72%

I guess Belichick better trade Tom Brady and get whatever he can take too. Look out for old noodle armed Tom Brady.

[praise_gibbs]

This is even better:

...........

I guess Belichick better trade Tom Brady and get whatever he can take too. Look out for old noodle armed Tom Brady.

LOL! :rotflmao:

That is a nice post.

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

don't feel like readint through 30 pages. So what's the news on this? Just a dead rumor? Substance?

If this comes true I'm not participating in the vulture like feedfest that would most likely happen here. Brunnell was a solid QB for us in possibly our best season(2005) since 1991 He had great numbers and everything clicked for him until he was finally beaten down late in the season. I thank him for his service and wish him all the luck in Seattle if it happens.

[bulldog]

Gibbs isn't going to trade Brunell unless some team steps up and offers a first day pick, which ain't gonna happen.

Would you trade Brunell for a #7 pick when we just saw what Jordan Palmer is capable of as the #3 qb?

I was REALLY disappointed in Palmer. I expected some rust based on his lack of time in the other preseason games, but he doesn't appear to have any instincts in playing the quarterback position.

His footwork is awful. He doesn't see the field. He throws off the wrong foot. Not to mention that he is wildly inaccurate when he IS able to set up.

I really can't see how Sam Hollenbach was THAT bad as a UDFA that he couldn't supplant Palmer here as the developmental quarterback.

[jivelikenice]

This is even better:

Let's compare Brunell to actual other starting QBs. You know, instead of just showing one stat to try and give off the perception Brunell is bad.

Passes of 1-10 yards and behind the line are included, thus, all pass attempts of 10 yards or less are accounted for. This takes care of your claim that Brunell threw 75% of his passes 10 yards or less. We will then compare that number to the total number of passes attempted to get our percentage. Duh.

Brunell: 189 of 260 passes attempted were 10 yards or less.

Jason Campbell: 125 of 207 passes attempted were 10 yards or less.

Peyton Manning: 356 of 557 passes attempted were 10 yards or less.

Carson Palmer: 337 of 520 passes attempted were 10 yards or less.

Tom Brady: 372 of 516 passes attempted were 10 yards or less.

This means:

Brunell: 73%

Jason Campbell: 60%

Peyton Manning: 64%

Carson Palmer: 65%

Tom Brady: 72%

I guess Belichick better trade Tom Brady and get whatever he can take too. Look out for old noodle armed Tom Brady.

The difference is Brady along with everyone else here has the ability to throw beyond 10-yards. Mark doesnt......Also ,WHy don't you break it down to below 5-yards. 10 is too generous...

I think Mark is probably a good guy and have nothing against aside from the fact that he is unwilling to stay in the pcoket and take chances downfield. He tries to run around and just doesn't have the legs to get outside of the pressure.

[SnyderMustGo]

I'm happy with this trade. Brunell was old and past due. His presence didn't build for the future at all.

This team is 100% about JC and dependent on him. Who cares who is playing if JC goes down? If he goes down, we might as well make a race for the #1 draft pick next year and build more.

I'm happy with old players for draft picks.

[bulldog]

what trade?

[jnhay]

I'm happy with this trade. Brunell was old and past due. His presence didn't build for the future at all.

This team is 100% about JC and dependent on him. Who cares who is playing if JC goes down? If he goes down, we might as well make a race for the #1 draft pick next year and build more.

I'm happy with old players for draft picks.

There's no trade though.

[elkabong82]

The difference is Brady along with everyone else here has the ability to throw beyond 10-yards. Mark doesnt......Also ,WHy don't you break it down to below 5-yards. 10 is too generous...

I think Mark is probably a good guy and have nothing against aside from the fact that he is unwilling to stay in the pcoket and take chances downfield. He tries to run around and just doesn't have the legs to get outside of the pressure.

ESPN.com doesn't have the stats availble for 5 yards or below.

Here is another fun fact:

Brunell was 12 of 27 on passes over 21 yards, or 44%.

Peyton Manning was 29 of 75, or 39%.

Would you rather have a QB is more accurate throwing downfield, or just one who hurls the ball downfield?

And there wasn't all of a sudden a deep threat when Campbell stepped in (don't get me wrong, I like JC, I'm just disproving a common misperception).

Campbell was 5 of 31 passes downfield, or 16%. Do you guys honestly believe teams were playing further back for a QB who was only 16% downfield, moreso than a QB who was 44% downfield?