RUMOR: Brunell TO SEAHAWKS!!!!! (merged)

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I see what part you are talking about now. I saw the first part of pass attempts and believed that was it. How do they now a pass attempt failed was 40+ on a screen play? etc.?

Anyways, let's actually compare Brunell and Campbell, because as I've said, Saunders said his play calling is about getting the ball into the hands of receivers and letting them make the plays.

Brunell: Behind line- 52/70 1-10 yards- 83/119 11-20yards- 15/44 21-30yards- 9/19 31-40yards- 2/7 41+yards- 1/1

JC: Behind line- 23/34 1-10yards- 57/91 11-20yards- 25/51 21-30yards 2/16 31-40yards- 3/7 41+ yards- 0/8

So it appears that just like Brunell, the play calling for JC had most of the passes 10 yards or under. In fact, all starting QBs have the majority of their throws go 10 yards or less. The only area where JC had significantly more success than Brunell was 11-20 yard range. Seeing as Campbell was 0/8 on 40+ yard throws, where did this magical deep threat come from?

Or could it just be that since most of the numbers are similar percentage-wise as far as attempts go, that the playcalling had more to do with it? Could it be that, just like in '05, the o-line performed better in the second half, thus the run game expanded. Brunell was significantly better than Campbell in the 20-30 yard range, so the over the middle and "noodle-arm" arguments don't make a whole lot of sense. Could it be you again are skewing and cherry picking statistics becuase of your bias? (oh and I wasn't because my mentioning Brunell in '05 was in response, again, to SoCal claiming he sucked in '05.)

campbell physically heaved the ball much further than brunell, and defenses knew this. ill never attempt to claim that campbell was extremely accurate with his deep ball or that he got some good receiver breaks in terms of getting open, but he put the ball in the air plenty more than brunell did and defenses had to respect this fact. if youre playing madden with someone, and you know theyre gonna go deep, you adjust. if you know theyre not, say 73% of the time they dont attack past 10 yards, you adjust accordingly. and boonells arm was pretty weak, and teams knew that as well.

brunell threw 260 passes

campbell threw 207 passes

189 of brunells passes were thrown 10 yards or under (73% of all passes)

125 of campbells passes thrown 10 yards or under (60% of all passes)

id say that 64 passes is a big difference. and brunell only played 2 more games.

boonell threw 90 passes behind the line of scrimmage. thats 27% total.

campbell threw 34 passes behind the line of scrimmage. thats 16% total.

big difference.

boonell was 15/44 when throwing 11-20 yards. thats 34% completion.

campbell was 25/51 when throwing 11-20. thats 49% completion

so far we have established that brunell threw more short passes, more passes behind the line of scrimmage, less intermediate passes in more games than campbell, and was less accurate with them than jason was.

brunell threw the ball 40+ yards once, and hit lloyd in the titans game. campbell heaved it that far 8 times. granted he didnt hit any of them, but he was attempting to hit guys deep. the playcalling called for him to go deep. you claim the playcalling was similar, so why was campbell chucking it around deep and boonell throwing 1 pass that far in more games?

campbell was physically throwing the football over 10 yards 40% of the time. its not a shocker that our run game opened up. brunell on the other hand, threw the ball past 10 yards 27% of the time, the same amount he threw behind the line of scrimmage. these percentages are pretty big in difference, yet you claim their playcalling was so similar. just explain why jason was throwing further and brunell wasnt.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

ESPN.com doesn't have the stats availble for 5 yards or below.

Here is another fun fact:

Brunell was 12 of 27 on passes over 21 yards, or 44%.

Peyton Manning was 29 of 75, or 39%.

Would you rather have a QB is more accurate throwing downfield, or just one who hurls the ball downfield?

And there wasn't all of a sudden a deep threat when Campbell stepped in (don't get me wrong, I like JC, I'm just disproving a common misperception).

Campbell was 5 of 31 passes downfield, or 16%. Do you guys honestly believe teams were playing further back for a QB who was only 16% downfield, moreso than a QB who was 44% downfield?

ill take the quarterback who bombs it, because just one pass like that can alter an entire drive/game.

and yes i believe teams were backing up. the threat was there with campbell because he was physically able to do so. brunell wasnt physically able to do it.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Just for fun, here are Peyton Mannings:

Behind: 44/69

1-10: 204/287

11-20: 85/126

21-30: 16/43

31-40: 11/23

41+: 2/9

That's 362/557 total. 356 of Peyton's passes attempted were 10 yards or less (including behind the line) for 64%.

So Brunell threw 10 yards or less pass attempts 73%, JC was 60%, and Peyton 64%. So by your logic JC is a better QB than Peyton was last year.

thats a 10% difference for a guy who threw over double the passes. he was around 50% 31-40, and 67% from 11-20. give me that guy please.

[elkabong82]

Tom Brady completed 22 of 63 passes of 21+ yards. Brunell, again, was 12 of 27. So, on the deeper passes, Brunell was 44%, Brady 35%. Projected out to a full season, Brunell possibly could have been 21 of 46, or 46%.

Tom Brady threw 63 passes of 21+ yards in 16 games, or 4 pass attempts of 21+ yards a game.

Brunell threw 27 passes of 21+ yards in 9 games, or 3 pass attempts of 21+ yards per game.

And Brunell was still more accurate with those 3 per game, than Brady or Manning were with theirs.

So is the difference between the 1st or 2nd best QB in the league and what some of you call the worst QB in the league just one more deep pass attempt per game?

[skinthemboys]

well, Dont **** it up jason. Playoffs or bust

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Tom Brady completed 22 of 63 passes of 21+ yards. Brunell, again, was 12 of 27. So, on the deeper passes, Brunell was 44%, Brady 35%. Projected out to a full season, Brunell possibly could have been 21 of 46, or 46%.

Tom Brady threw 63 passes of 21+ yards in 16 games, or 4 pass attempts of 21+ yards a game.

Brunell threw 27 passes of 21+ yards in 9 games, or 3 pass attempts of 21+ yards per game.

And Brunell was still more accurate with those 3 per game, than Brady or Manning were with theirs.

So is the difference between the 1st or 2nd best QB in the league and what some of you call the worst QB in the league just one more deep pass attempt per game?

you cant compare them because manning and brady played full seasons, whereas boonell played 9 games. so your "projects to a full season" nonsense is out the window. oh, the big difference is those other guys are going to the hall of fame, whereas boonell gets to go to oregon.

[elkabong82]

thats a 10% difference for a guy who threw over double the passes. he was around 50% 31-40, and 67% from 11-20. give me that guy please.

But I never said Brunell was better than Manning, just that he wasn't as bad as a lot of you make him out to be. Nice try. Care to explain Brady's 72% vs. Brunell's 73%?

Oh, and I saw below you tried to justify JC inaccuracy. You really think defenses are more afraid of a deep ball coming from a guy who completes it 16% of the time; more so than a guy who averages not even one less pass per game over 20 yards and completes them 44% of the time?

Just noticed, post 2000!

[elkabong82]

you cant compare them because manning and brady played full seasons, whereas boonell played 9 games. so your "projects to a full season" nonsense is out the window. oh, the big difference is those other guys are going to the hall of fame, whereas boonell gets to go to oregon.

Funny, you have no problem spitting out stats of Brunell, despite an incomplete season. But when I show one of the best QBs in the league is doing the same thing you are bashing Brunell for, then they are incomparable?

Face it, your 75% thing is BS.

You have repeatedly said our run game opened up because we had a deep pass threat from Campbell all of a sudden. I showed you that 16% completion rate isn't a threat. Some fewer deep pass attempts, but at 44% completion rate is more of a threat. Again, I reassert it was the O-line performing better in the second half of the season(just like in '05) opened up the run game, which in turn opened up the pass game over the middle for JC (you know, that 11-20 yard range).

Stats show Brunell was more accurate on passes over 20 yards than Manning or Brady. And I'm not saying he's better than they are, he isn't. What I am saying is he is better than you, and other haters, give him credit for. That has been proven now, no matter how much you want to deny it, cherry pick stats, and name call.

[jaxskinsville]

But I never said Brunell was better than Manning, just that he wasn't as bad as a lot of you make him out to be. Nice try. Care to explain Brady's 72% vs. Brunell's 73%?

Oh, and I saw below you tried to justify JC inaccuracy. You really think defenses are more afraid of a deep ball coming from a guy who completes it 16% of the time; more so than a guy who averages not even one less pass per game over 20 yards and completes them 44% of the time?

Love what your doing. Unfortunately, using logic, intelligence, truth, stats and common sense with a Brunell Basher is a waste of good space. Only a professional therapist can help them back to reality. :hammer:

[SnyderMustGo]

There's no trade though.

Yeah. Well, I am happy if this trade goes through. Where there is smoke there is fire. I would happy if it works out.

(I don't trust Gibbs' statements anymore. He has lied too many times. "Archuleta is not going anywhere...")

[elkabong82]

snydermustgo mustgo :laugh:

though I'm pretty sure I'm on your ignore list, so I guess you'll never get this. Too bad.

[Ingtar]

snydermustgo mustgo :laugh:

though I'm pretty sure I'm on your ignore list, so I guess you'll never get this. Too bad.

Well, if you are, maybe he will see it quoted in my entry :cool: So what if Gibbs has "lied"? It is just the way the player personell game is played. All coaches do it.

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing Brunell traded. We only need one old back up QB. If we had to resort to a 3rd string guy, we are doomed anyway.

[81tothehall]

Whoever thinks that the threat of the deep pass doesent't change a defensive game plan has never played football and is a complete moron. Watch the games and you'll see how different the defense reacts to the QB's. With jason in the game you didn't see all 11 defensive players on the t.v. screen on 1st down. Cooley finally came alive. The rushing numbers don't lie. I like Mark, think he was a helluva QB in Jacksonville, love the Dallas Monday night game, but come on everybody, it is a SMART football move.

[elkabong82]

Whoever thinks that the threat of the deep pass doesent't change a defensive game plan has never played football and is a complete moron. Watch the games and you'll see how different the defense reacts to the QB's. With jason in the game you didn't see all 11 defensive players on the t.v. screen on 1st down. Cooley finally came alive. The rushing numbers don't lie. I like Mark, think he was a helluva QB in Jacksonville, love the Dallas Monday night game, but come on everybody, it is a SMART football move.

Nobody is saying the threat of a deep pass doesn't change the D's game plan. What I've been saying is Brunell isn't as bad as so many on here claim. Others started saying our run game didn't open up until we had a deep pass threat from JC. I said the O-line played better in the second half just like they did in '05, which opened up the run game, which in turn opened up the pass game, NOT the other way around as the haters claim.

I also pointed out Brunell, while throwing less than one deep pass per game than JC, was completing those passes over 20 yards 44% of the time. JC was doing it 16% of the time. Do you think defenses are more afraid of a QB who only completes it deep 16% of the time?

JC did better on passes 11-20 yards, and I know it seems like the result would be because defenders were playing back more. But JC only had 4 more deep passes than Brunell. JC did play 2 less games, so if you factor in the average of 4 deep per game, then Campbell throws 12 more deep over 9 games than Brunell. That's not a big difference.

I would venture to say the defenses were backing up because Betts wasn't the threat Portis was, and the D was willing to gamble more with Betts than they were JC. This is also why Betts was open on a lot of third down passing.

The fact Brunell was completing 44% of his passes over 20 yards, which was a better rate than Manning or Brady in '06, also makes me tend to believe Ds were backing off because they viewed Moss and Randle El more as threats than they did Betts running. This would also explain why El didn't have as many after-the-catch big plays last season.

[monkforhall]

Just because the announcer said it should have been picked, doesn't mean that is what happened. The ball hit the receivers hands, and the guy who the announcer said should have picked the ball off, was actually busy hitting the receiver in the back and drawing a pass-interference penalty.

What the hell, who cares what the announcer said, I thought it should have been picked because I have two working eyeballs. I'm pretty sure Brunell held his breath on that stupid pass.

[elkabong82]

What the hell, who cares what the announcer said, I thought it should have been picked because I have two working eyeballs. I'm pretty sure Brunell held his breath on that stupid pass.

And I'm pretty sure if it wasn't for the defensive pass interference the receiver would have come down with the ball.

And I care what the announcer says when you or whoever repeat them almost ver batem, eventhough looking at the play and replay, the ball hits the receiver in the hands before it gets near either defender.

If you're going to say that pass should have been picked, despite there being a receiver in the way, then you can say JCs TD pass should have been picked had the defender looked. In either case, both perceptions are wrong, and both passes were good.

Like I pointed out a while ago, care to explain away the TD pass Brunell had in the same game?

[elkabong82]

Atlanta, Seattle, and now the Jaguars apparently are expressing interest in Brunell. So I guess as a back-up, Brunell is better than most other back-up QBs in the league (as I've said before), AND Brunell isn't as bad as many of you claim (again, as I've said before).

[Drex]

I got two words to explain Brunell's favorable percentage of completed deep passes and how it compares to the likes of Manning and Brady: Santana Moss.

Moss is a guy who doesn't require a qb to make a perfect throw: as a result of his superior ball skills, he has the ability to react to even underthrown balls while still making the grab. I wouldn't be shocked to see a significant amount of those deep passes completed by Brunell ended up in the hands of Moss.

[monkforhall]

Brunell is a bad teammate. He sets a bad example, he acts like he doesn't care, he makes excuses.

I've seen Brunell fall to the ground because the thought he was going to get hit. I've seen Brunell try and run for a first and a huge 3rd down and just hit the dirt. He is scared now. Brunell never stands up like a leader, and says he is the one that needs to play better. Instead he even blames the other team for playing a cover two. He's such a class act, stand up guy, why didn't he admit that he was hurt last year, instead he hurt his team. Why does he laugh on the sidelines when we are losing. What kind of leader is that? Why do people say he can manage the game when he can't even manage the clock. How many times did we get delay of games with Brunell? Didn't seem to happen much when he came out.

Plus he can't play football anymore.

[monkforhall]

And I'm pretty sure if it wasn't for the defensive pass interference the receiver would have come down with the ball.

And I care what the announcer says when you or whoever repeat them almost ver batem, eventhough looking at the play and replay, the ball hits the receiver in the hands before it gets near either defender.

Do you think it's a good idea to float a pass to a receiver that is double covered?

[skinner6775]

MB was gone next year anyway........glad we'll get something for him....anything would be good!! i like it

shoudn't of let Bramlett go!

[elkabong82]

I got two words to explain Brunell's favorable percentage of completed deep passes and how it compares to the likes of Manning and Brady: Santana Moss.

Moss is a guy who doesn't require a qb to make a perfect throw: as a result of his superior ball skills, he has the ability to react to even underthrown balls while still making the grab. I wouldn't be shocked to see a significant amount of those deep passes completed by Brunell ended up in the hands of Moss.

Which means as long as Moss is on the team, Brunell can do well enough. It also means teams were more afraid of Moss last year than they were Betts.

[Drex]

Which means as long as Moss is on the team, Brunell can do well enough. It also means teams were more afraid of Moss last year than they were Betts.

As they should be: Moss was one of the game's premier gamebreakers in 2005 whereas Betts was a guy who took advantage of alot of poor run defenses in a 5 or 6 game timeframe.

A guy like Moss makes any qb's job easier, and hopefully Campbell will have him as an option to throw to for 16 games this season.

[monkforhall]

Elkabong congrats on 2000 posts.

Mark Brunell's touchdown was very nice, great pass. Can't you admit that with two guys there and the ball floating like it was it should have been picked off? Maybe the receiver would have come down with the ball, but it was a jump ball.

[elkabong82]

Brunell is a bad teammate. He sets a bad example, he acts like he doesn't care, he makes excuses.

I've seen Brunell fall to the ground because the thought he was going to get hit. I've seen Brunell try and run for a first and a huge 3rd down and just hit the dirt. He is scared now. Brunell never stands up like a leader, and says he is the one that needs to play better. Instead he even blames the other team for playing a cover two. He's such a class act, stand up guy, why didn't he admit that he was hurt last year, instead he hurt his team. Why does he laugh on the sidelines when we are losing. What kind of leader is that? Why do people say he can manage the game when he can't even manage the clock. How many times did we get delay of games with Brunell? Didn't seem to happen much when he came out.

Plus he can't play football anymore.

Dude, give it up. Unless you have stats, which you don't, then don't bother because your hating opinions don't count for ****. Brunell sets a good example to his teammates by staying positive, by restructuring his contract and pushing money into later years he'll never see. Do you honestly think making absurd statements and stupid judgment calls about a man you don't know give any credence to your argument?

I've seen Brunell run for a first on 4th down in Dallas on Monday Night. I also realize Brunell's scrambling skills aren't necessary in a back-up role. His game-managing ability and smart play (i.e. lack of turnovers) is a much more valuable asset in a BACK-UP. The rest of your post is unsupported opinion, and really doesn't even deserve a response.

And if you think Brunell can't play football anymore, than you better start scouting for the Falcons, Seahawks, and Jaguars, because all are expressing interest in him right now.

Face it, as a back-up, Brunell can still contribute to this team, and is better than more than half of the back-up QBs in the league.