DCsportsfan53 Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Thank God they didn't get it but the prosecutors orginally sought the death penalty for this man. Funny that they're not for the real criminal. 19 years for something you didn't do, man that's rough. No matter how much investigative techniques improve, there's still never 100% certainty you have the right guy. I, for one, am not willing to accept the possibility of people dying for crimes they didn't commit. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/10/nyregion/10dna.html?_r=1&oref=slogin ELIZABETH, N.J., July 9 — The Union County prosecutor’s office dismissed all charges on Monday against a Plainfield man who served 19 years in prison for the murders of the two children he was raising.The man, Byron Halsey, 46, was released from prison in May after DNA testing that was not available at the time of his conviction implicated Clifton Hall, 49, a neighbor who had testified against Mr. Halsey Mr. Hall, who is serving time for three sexual assaults that took place after Mr. Halsey was imprisoned, was charged on April 24 with the 1985 murders of the two children, Tyrone Urquhart, 8, and his sister, Tina, 7, and with the aggravated sexual assault of Tina. ....... Prosecutors had originally sought the death penalty for Mr. Halsey, in part because the crimes were so brutal. Tyrone died after nails were hammered into his skull with a brick. click link for full article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stwasm Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Even though he's finally out of prison, he'll never really be a "free man." He lost a good 19 years of his life and, most likely, he'll spend the rest of it trying to catch up and trying to get over the anger of being treated like a caged animal. He'll always be haunted by those lost years. I can't even imagine what's going on in his mind right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skindogger47 Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 That article just changed my opinion on the death penalty. I used to be all for it. Child molesters are the worst people in the world and should be castrated though if DNA evidence proved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 I'm not against the death penalty. I am against streamlining the appeals process though, and stuff like this is the reason why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 No matter how much investigative techniques improve, there's still never 100% certainty you have the right guy. I, for one, am not willing to accept the possibility of people dying for crimes they didn't commit. See, that's the difference between us. I'll take my chances with cases like this to ensure that I get as many of the truly guilty people as humanly possible put into the ground. I understand most people disagree with that philosophy, and that's fine. I won't even bother to try and change your minds. I just feel that the number of these people wrongly convicted and executed would be very small compared to the number of truly guilty wastes of flesh and oxygen that we'd get rid of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Sassy Molassy Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 See, that's the difference between us. I'll take my chances with cases like this to ensure that I get as many of the truly guilty people as humanly possible put into the ground. I understand most people disagree with that philosophy, and that's fine. I won't even bother to try and change your minds. I just feel that the number of these people wrongly convicted and executed would be very small compared to the number of truly guilty wastes of flesh and oxygen that we'd get rid of. So you're saying that risking innocent lives to condemn one guilty one is worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stwasm Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 See, that's the difference between us. I'll take my chances with cases like this to ensure that I get as many of the truly guilty people as humanly possible put into the ground. I understand most people disagree with that philosophy, and that's fine. I won't even bother to try and change your minds. I just feel that the number of these people wrongly convicted and executed would be very small compared to the number of truly guilty wastes of flesh and oxygen that we'd get rid of. I hear what you're saying. But, because that possibility of a mistake does exist, no matter how small, I'd rather see them get it right instead of sacrificing "these peple wrongly convicted and executed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 So you're saying that risking innocent lives to condemn one guilty one is worth it? In a single word... YES. So far as I'm concerned, and I've voiced this previously here at ES, if you're in a position to not be able to prove you are innocence of a crime like this, you were probably doing something you shouldn't have been doing anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 if you're in a position to not be able to prove you are innocence of a crime like this, you were probably doing something you shouldn't have been doing anyway. That's insane. You're home alone innocently watching "The Sound of Music". No one can vouch for you and a murder happens in which you're implicated. No one can corroborate your innocence. What if that one is you, Mass? I'm not against the death penalty, but in order to impose it, they better be 110% sure they have the right guy. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 While I am on the fence about the death penalty. http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201755&highlight=SKINHEAD This sort of thing reminds me that perhaps there is good use for it. I cannot justify allowing this guy to live and subject anyone around him to his ideals. He has proven to be MORE dangerous in Prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Even though he's finally out of prison, he'll never really be a "free man." He lost a good 19 years of his life and, most likely, he'll spend the rest of it trying to catch up and trying to get over the anger of being treated like a caged animal. He'll always be haunted by those lost years. I can't even imagine what's going on in his mind right now.That is such a long time and almost half of his life. I don't know if he will ever be able to be a normal member of society again. It's such a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 That's insane.You'r home alone, no one can vouch for you and a murder happens in which you're implicated. No one can corroborate your innocence. What if that one is you, Mass? If that one is me, then more than likely I've screwed up massively in some way, shape, manner or form. If I cannot vouch for my whereabouts, my actions, or my activities, and have placed myself in a position where I could be considered a suspect in a murder, more than likely I've already done something that I should probably be punished for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 See, that's the difference between us. I'll take my chances with cases like this to ensure that I get as many of the truly guilty people as humanly possible put into the ground. I understand most people disagree with that philosophy, and that's fine. I won't even bother to try and change your minds. I just feel that the number of these people wrongly convicted and executed would be very small compared to the number of truly guilty wastes of flesh and oxygen that we'd get rid of. To me, human life is more valuable than that. To me, that's entirely against every principle this country was founded on and believes in. I find it outrageously ironic that the constitutional right to bear arms is to be defended at all costs but the constitutional right to LIFE should be cast aside that easily. "It is better that 10 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man go to jail." That is one of the core principles of our justice system. I believe in that wholeheartedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 To me, human life is more valuable than that. To me, that's entirely against every principle this country was founded on and believes in. I find it outrageously ironic that the constitutional right to bear arms is to be defended at all costs but the constitutional right to LIFE should be cast aside that easily. "It is better that 10 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man go to jail." That is one of the core principles of our justice system. I believe in that wholeheartedly. Two things to remember, DC.... First, I don't see much value in ANY human life at this point in time. Second, I've repeatedly commented that I think our justice system is an absolute joke and completely broken beyond repair. Want to try a third point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. S Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 I am on the fence with death penalty too. I do think that if there was planned intent to kill, then that person deserves to die. Of course that can still be misconstrued. If one person admits he/she is guilty for planning a murder and executing that plan, they deserve to die. Guys like Saddam, Osama, or Timothy McVeigh would be of this category, people who planned out a murder and somehow performed it. I heard one story of a guy in prison for life because he killed his neighbor. He did it cause his neighbor raped his daughter. While he should have called the cops, I don't feel he deserves to serve a life sentence for that either. Obviously most people won't admit they are guilty though, so that's when it becomes vague as it always leaves the doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 See, that's the difference between us. I'll take my chances with cases like this to ensure that I get as many of the truly guilty people as humanly possible put into the ground. I understand most people disagree with that philosophy, and that's fine. I won't even bother to try and change your minds. I just feel that the number of these people wrongly convicted and executed would be very small compared to the number of truly guilty wastes of flesh and oxygen that we'd get rid of. This is a nice romantic concept, but you really didn't think it through. I think you are forgetting that this will give some people the power to do bad things to other people. This would require processes that will inevitably get abused. These kinds of things are philosophies that have to be implemented as processes. You did not go past the philosophy part in your analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 Two things to remember, DC....First, I don't see much value in ANY human life at this point in time. Second, I've repeatedly commented that I think our justice system is an absolute joke and completely broken beyond repair. Want to try a third point? On your first point, whatever you say boss. On the second point, I completely agree with although for 180 degree opposite reasons. I think we lock people up far too easily, the system is biased against minorities and innocent until proven guilty rings a lot less true than it should. I think it's a part of the miltarization of the police force to the point where they don't consider themselves part of "civilian society" anymore. I think it's part of the commercialized and profit based prison system which has strong motivation to keep as many people in prison as possible. Yeah, the justice system is pretty ****ed up right now but not because they don't off people at first accusation like you'd like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 I think the death penalty shouldn't be available simply because of the crime but tied to the evidence. In other words not all murders/rapes/etc should have a death penalty option. If however the evidence is amazingly strong then the death penalty could be made available as an option by the jury. BTW - why was this case not revisited when the witness against him was convicted of attacking children? Shouldn't that have set off some alarms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Let's put it this way: It's great that NJ didn't put Halsey to death, but it's too bad they won't be putting Hall to death. I am still for the death penalty, but it needs to be used very carefully. EDIT: Pretty much what Destino said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 I'm 100% for the death penalty. However, IMO, I'd rather let 10 criminals go free than to lock up one innocent person. Maybe we'll bet lucky and MSF will get wrongly accused of something.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 If that one is me, then more than likely I've screwed up massively in some way, shape, manner or form. If I cannot vouch for my whereabouts, my actions, or my activities, and have placed myself in a position where I could be considered a suspect in a murder, more than likely I've already done something that I should probably be punished for. But you know better than that. YOU aren't going to be doing anything that warrants punishment anyway, and you know it. You won't even drink a beer or even coast thru a stop sign, for pete's sake, you aren't going to be making that major screw up. But let's just say on the way off chance that they arrest you for a murder you didn't commit. You'd be willing to allow yourself to be executed? Now, you've GOT to give a little on that point, and as such you've got to be able to at least agree that they should make every effort humanly possible to assure that the condemned is actually the guilty party. You can't just "kill em all and let God sort them out" as it is. Because you never know,, it COULD be you. It doesn't happen very often, but it does happen. And if we are going to be a society who uses the ultimate punishment, we should strive to be as sure as we can be before we pass that particular sentence. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Maybe we'll bet lucky and MSF will get wrongly accused of something.... Just wait about 4 years. Once either Hillary or Obama get elected, and the Democrats still control Congress you'll be rid of me as soon as they start coming for my firearms. That should make you happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 I support the death penalty, but only for people that have been convited of seperate crimes multiple times. Kind of like a 3 strike rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Just wait about 4 years. Once either Hillary or Obama get elected, and the Democrats still control Congress you'll be rid of me as soon as they start coming for my firearms. That should make you happy. :laugh: :laugh: I actually do agree with one thing you said... in most cases, if you stay out of trouble, you will not have to worry about getting arrested for a serious crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 I once used to be for the death penalty but cases like this have made me reconsider my position I think execution should be reserved for convicted terrorist masterminds and thats about it. Death is too easy for many of the scum bags that we execute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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