WVUforREDSKINS Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Peppers opposite Carter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyvern Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 To be different, I'll say Steve Smith. With Smith, Moss, ARE, and Cooley -- maybe Campbell could start looking like Brady and P. Manning. ...Naturally, either Peyton Manninng and Tom Brady would be great too. I just thought I'd throw out something for folks to consider. Please note -- I went for the upgrade on offense over defense. Until Washington can rely on having great special-teams play, I'd prefer the Redskins to be a high-scoring team, than a defensive powerhouse. I'd prefer sweating out those scoring slug-fests than wind up on the the wrong side of a 9-6 game. (Besides I like having all those free toppings on my pizza!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myzhi Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 13 QB's taken in a 10 year period. There have been a few busts...Collins, Druckenmiller, Tuiasosopo, and a couple of nice finds...Brees, Plummer. The book is still out on a couple...Grossman and Losman. And 6 (almost 50%) have had very average at best careers with multiple years starting. Basically, it's a crapshoot. How is average at best careers worth talking about? If JC is just that, we need another QB. Out of that group, only Brees is a star. 17 QB's taken. Again, there have been a few busts...Leaf, Couch, Akili Smith, & McNown. But there have also been some real prizes...McNair, Manning, McNabb, Palmer, and Rivers. Prize Qbs list: Late 1st / early 2nd = 1/13 (7.6%) vs Top 20 = 5/17 (29.4%). It would be even worse if you look at just Top 10 QB picked. In both groups, the bust factor is about 25%. The hit ratio is higher for a top tier QB in the 2nd group though. Disagree. See above. What does this say about Campbell? Not much. Heck, Tom Brady was a late round pick. According you to, at best, JC will be an "average QB." He has a 7.6% of being a prize QB. That's not great odds. Brady is probably a once in a lifetime lucky shot. It's probably never going to happen again so people should stop using it of possibly of happening again. What odds are against us, meaning we will draft a QB this year? I'm assuming you meant next year but if not you're right! We drafted Jordan Palmer this year. It's not hard to understand. You can't drafting if the draft is already over for this year. Thus, clearly, I meant after this following season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutch44 Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Randel Cunningham didn't and Mcnabb willnot win a SB...Donovan Cunningham and Randel Mcnabb they're interchangble. Game one to game sixteen they're great after that they both are worth about a pound of dog ****...or is it EAGLE ****??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Brady. Duh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Randel Cunningham didn't and Mcnabb willnot win a SB...Donovan Cunningham and Randel Mcnabb they're interchangble. Game one to game sixteen they're great after that they both are worth about a pound of dog ****...or is it EAGLE ****??? Did you watch the 98 playoffs? Cunningham was excellent. It's not his fault Moss dropped a PERFECTLY thrown long ball in the end zone, or that their kicker choked. The 98 Vikes were the best team in football that year and would've beaten the Broncos if Moss weren't a choker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward78 Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Torry Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielbayles Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Drew Brees or Carson Palmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Present players: Julius Peppers. Freak of nature. Past players: Lawrence Taylor. The ultimate Freak of Nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilgamesh Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Dwight Freeney, no question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha Ghost Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 build from the line then back, Julius Peppers all day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsenic Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Champ Bailey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Champ Bailey?Good call. I'd take him back in a minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpheusmeyers Posted July 9, 2007 Author Share Posted July 9, 2007 How is average at best careers worth talking about? If JC is just that, we need another QB. Out of that group, only Brees is a star. Prize Qbs list: Late 1st / early 2nd = 1/13 (7.6%) vs Top 20 = 5/17 (29.4%). It would be even worse if you look at just Top 10 QB picked. Disagree. See above. It's not hard to understand. You can't drafting if the draft is already over for this year. Thus, clearly, I meant after this following season. I don't think Campbell will be average. Obviously it remains to be seen, but I think we're onto a good one. What I was trying to say is that drafting a QB can be a crapshoot, even when drafting one at the top of the 1st round. We won a Super Bowl with a 6th round pick...Mark Rypien. Another Super Bowl winner, Brad Johnson, was drafted in the 9th round. Another, Kurt Warner, wasn't even drafted. Brunell was drafted in the 5th. Trent Green in the 8th. Marc Bulger in the 6th, the same year Brady was drafted. Matt Hasselbeck in the 6th. Tony Romo sits to pee wasn't drafted. Either was Jon Kitna. Or Jake Delhomme. Or Jeff Garcia. My point is, a lot of good QB's, and several Super Bowl winners have come from the bottom end of the draft or weren't drafted at all. Brady isn't a once in a lifetime lucky shot imo. Here is a list of a few recent Super Bowls and where the QB's were selected... 06 Hasselbeck (6th) and Roethlisberger. 05 Brady (6th) and McNabb. 04 Brady (6th) and Delhomme (undrafted). 03 Brad Johnson (9th) and Rich Gannon (4th). 02 Brady (6th) and Kurt Warner (undrafted). 01 Trent Dilfer and Kerry Collins. 00 Kurt Warner (undrafted) and Steve McNair. Sure. But you said the odds are we'll draft a QB this (next) year. Over a 10 year period from 1995-2005, we only drafted 4 QB's, and only 1 in the 1st 3 rounds. Anything is possible, but with Campbell, Bramlet, and Palmer on the team, I doubt we'll draft one next year. Let's hope not anyway. I'm hoping Bramlet and Palmer can develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myzhi Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 I don't think Campbell will be average. Obviously it remains to be seen, but I think we're onto a good one. What I was trying to say is that drafting a QB can be a crapshoot, even when drafting one at the top of the 1st round. Just going by your numbers, in last 10 years, only 1/13 QB, Brees, is a star. Take your personal feelings out of it. Looking at the odds, JC will not be a "GOOD" QB. Thus, I won't be surprise if we draft a another 1st round QB this following year. Sure, drafting QB, even any player, can be a crap shoot, but your odds are much better of getting a prize QB in Top 20 vs any other round in the draft. We won a Super Bowl with a 6th round pick...Mark Rypien. Another Super Bowl winner, Brad Johnson, was drafted in the 9th round. Another, Kurt Warner, wasn't even drafted. Brunell was drafted in the 5th. Trent Green in the 8th. Marc Bulger in the 6th, the same year Brady was drafted. Matt Hasselbeck in the 6th. Tony Romo sits to pee wasn't drafted. Either was Jon Kitna. Or Jake Delhomme. Or Jeff Garcia. My point is, a lot of good QB's, and several Super Bowl winners have come from the bottom end of the draft or weren't drafted at all. Brady isn't a once in a lifetime lucky shot imo. Instead of just picking "Good" ones, but how about you adding all the QB drafted round 2-9 and undrafted that was in the league during last 10 years. I am not going do the dirty work, but pretty sure what was 7.6% prize QB for late 1st / early 2nd would probably drop to <1%. Here is a list of a few recent Super Bowls and where the QB's were selected...06 Hasselbeck (6th) and Roethlisberger. 05 Brady (6th) and McNabb. 04 Brady (6th) and Delhomme (undrafted). 03 Brad Johnson (9th) and Rich Gannon (4th). 02 Brady (6th) and Kurt Warner (undrafted). 01 Trent Dilfer and Kerry Collins. 00 Kurt Warner (undrafted) and Steve McNair. Guess, you are trying to say any QB can make the Super Bowl? Looking deeper. Your list has 5 top 20 1st pick round and 6 4th - undrafted. Clearly, tells me where you should draft a QB that gives you best chance to make the Super Bowl. Also, we don't see any late 1st / early 2nd on the list. JC... Sure. But you said the odds are we'll draft a QB this (next) year. Over a 10 year period from 1995-2005, we only drafted 4 QB's, and only 1 in the 1st 3 rounds. Anything is possible, but with Campbell, Bramlet, and Palmer on the team, I doubt we'll draft one next year. Let's hope not anyway. I'm hoping Bramlet and Palmer can develop. Yeah. If JC sux which leads to bad season, believe, Gibbs will probably retire. The new coach would want to go with his hand pick QBs, draft 1st round and stop gap veteran. As for Bramlet and Palmer, only people high on those guys are us Skins fans. Realistically, they would be lucky become good backups let alone a star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpheusmeyers Posted July 9, 2007 Author Share Posted July 9, 2007 I'm not saying you have a better chance of getting a top QB at the bottom of the draft than the top. My point is that drafting QB's can be a crapshoot. But I do believe we've got a good one in Campbell despite him being drafted in the latter portion of the 1st round and not the top. Time will tell. My point about other Super Bowl QB's being drafted late or undrafted is that Brady being drafted in the 6th round is not a once in a lifetime lucky pick, imo. Plenty of other QB's have had success who got drafted late. e.g. Kurt Warner wasn't drafted and played in two Super Bowls. I'm not saying that QB's drafted late have a better chance of success that ones drafted early. Clearly that's not the case. I'm only saying that Brady isn't the only QB drafted late to do well. What's your opinion of Campbell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myzhi Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 What's your opinion of Campbell? I am going by the odds. He's an average QB at best, and thus far, has shown me nothing to prove otherwise. Felt, same way with PR. Would love to be totally surprise, but I wouldn't hold my breath on it. Unlike many fans here, I am more realistic about the situation. All talk about JC doing X and Y during off season doesn't excited me one bit. It should be expected from him or any QB in the same situation. 1st, he's making millions. 2nd, he gets to play QB in the NFL. 3nd, he's in the 3rd year and this is the year he really needs to prove he's our long term answer. He's pretty much fighting for the long term starting job. Given anyone here the chance, they would put just as much or more effort into it. I'll gladly be at Redskin Park 24/7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilandil Tasardur Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 06 Hasselbeck (6th) and Roethlisberger. 05 Brady (6th) and McNabb. 04 Brady (6th) and Delhomme (undrafted). 03 Brad Johnson (9th) and Rich Gannon (4th). 02 Brady (6th) and Kurt Warner (undrafted). 01 Trent Dilfer and Kerry Collins. 00 Kurt Warner (undrafted) and Steve McNair. Yes, but out of that list the only QBs who have made a case for being "great" the past several years have been Brady, McNabb, Gannon, and Mcnair. All of the rest of those "late round gems" have been more "few season wonders" then gems. Warner played in 2 superbowls, great for him. He's a nice feel god story, but he certainly hasn't been a great QB for the past 5 or 6 seasons. He had a string of a few good years. Brad Johnson, journey man. Dilfer and Collins? Journey men. Delhomme? Solid seasons and good runs with his team but no one ever talks about him like a Manning or a Brady. He's by no means upper echelon. You're right, drafting a QB is a crapshoot. But you can't say that odds of JC being great go up because of the unlikely seasons of Brad Johnson, Kurt Warner, or Trent Dilfer. None of them have been great. As far as I'm concerned, the only QB who helps in the "blank did it so JC can too" argument is Brady, cause none of the others have been great. That being said, I don't think JC needs to be great to win a superbowl (See Dilfer and Johnson.) But I sure would like to see him be great:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalWhizzinator Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Anyone who doesnt answer Manning or Brady looses the thread. You add a HOF qb in thier prime, this team at least reps the NFC in the SB... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfWashington Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 2002 Patrick Ramsey (Future Hall of Famer) 1st round. That made me laugh. :laugh: I might have to go with Shawne Merriman. The guy's a beast at LB. Even playing only 12 games last year, he led the league in sacks. He has already proven himself to be successful and he has all the potential to carry on that success throughout his career. As does another third year man under center on our roster already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySkin21 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Peyton Manning then Tom Brady, but I think Peyton is a better QB even though Brady has more rings, it takes a team to win the SB so it wasnt just Brady. I think Peyton is the best QB in the game, he could step onto the field with ANY NFL team and instantly make them a SB contender. THe reason for me picking Manning over BRady is becuase Manning is a coach on the field, and you can't just get that from any QB. He is so valuable to that team and he as a QB make ssure everyone understands their assignments and everything. (this is a big help to rookies: ie- joseph addai) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySkin21 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 actually, i'd just like to have belechik(sp?) coaching our team, and have peyton as our QB.. we would be a team no one could touch. Hopefully we will be that way with JC and Gibbs, but this is me just saying this on the other side of the fence. ( on the losing side) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs!We!Trust! Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Would you trade Cooley for Vernon Davis? Mark my word Vernon Davis is going to coming back here!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flycoach Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Peyton Manning. Even if JC is the next coming of Peyton Manning, why not take the real thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flycoach Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Would you trade Cooley for Vernon Davis? Mark my word Vernon Davis is going to coming back here!!!! Interesting statement. What do you base it on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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