NFC focus: Ranking the safeties

[bigyim]

...I believe that at this time last year, many of us here had our safeties ranked #1 in the NFC by a substantial margin.

We all know how that turned out.

[cphil006]

let's prove our worth as a team starting in August then through February.

[Audible_Red40]

Let Landry play and prove his worth, then we'll move up the list. I am sure many thought with Archuleta we should have been ranked very high too. Well that went down the drian quickly.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

...I believe that at this time last year, many of us here had our safeties ranked #1 in the NFC by a substantial margin.

We all know how that turned out.

But Landry doesn't have a workout video.

And you can't deny that we were #1 in the NFC at the personal punt protector position for a good portion of the year.

[SkinsFTW]

...I believe that at this time last year, many of us here had our safeties ranked #1 in the NFC by a substantial margin.

We all know how that turned out.

Yep, but people already have Landry in the Pro Bowl next year.

Didn't some fans even make t-shirts about our safetys last year? :laugh:

[willmb5]

well Landry has never played a down in the NFL, so 5 is fair. I just think that havin the pukes at 2 is absurd

haha that sig is ridiculous man

[GroundNPound]

Ditto on Cowboys being overated.

Bears should be #1 anyways. They have the beast that is AA.

[jrockster21]

Adrian Wilson is a stud, gotta give the Cards credit.

Wilson is indeed a stud, and definitely one of the more underrated guys in the league, but Terrence Holt is garbage. He was AWFUL in San Diego, and that was with a monster pass-rush. If this list is best tandems, then they should not be a top 5 NFC tandem by any stretch of the imagination.

Here's my list:

1) Vikings - Darren Sharper and Dwight Smith are a very nice safety combo. It doesn't hurt that they've got two all-world DTs and a couple of nice pass-rushers up front, either.

2) Eagles - Considine is garbage, but Dawkins is still good enough to make up for it.

3) Skins - Taylor is all-world, despite struggling somewhat last season. He still made some incredible plays last season. Landry is a rook, but Taylor + anyone with a heartbeat not named Archuleta is a top 5 safety combo in the NFC. If Landry plays up to expectations, Skins will rocket up to #1 with no problems.

4) 4-10 is pretty much a crapshoot.

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

I have a couple problems with this.

Adrian Wilson < Sean Taylor

Terrence Holt < Pierson Prioleau or LaRon Landry

I think some people have forgotten just how well Pierson played for us in 2005.

Taylor is a bigger hitter, intimidator and will have a great coverage year IMO.

I hope Pierson starts and LaRon plays a role and if Pierson starts he is great in coverage and LaRon can cover and deliver big hits IMO.

Roy Williams can't cover. Ken Hamlin is just garbage.

Sharper is old and still good and Smith is solid.

Dawkins is very good (hate to say it) and Consodine is pretty good.

Taylor is a physical freak and monster who will have a big year and Pierson/Landry are both VERY solid #2's to ST.

My rankings:

1. Redskins

2. Iggles

3. Vikings

4. Cardinals

5. Ravens

[Riggo-toni]

Neither the Boys nor the Skins should be on this list, though hopefully Landry/Taylor will be enough to earn the Skins a top spot. Just goes to show highlight reels and hype count for more amongst pro-bowl voters and mediots than consistently solid play.

[Aston]

1: CARDINALS Adrian Wilson is one of the most versatile players in the league; he can cover slot receivers and play back in coverage or near the line of scrimmage. Terrence Holt should be adept at directing coverage from the free safety spot.

2: COWBOYS The team insists it will play Roy Williams close to the line of scrimmage to let him be a playmaker without having so many coverage responsibilities. In turn, Ken Hamlin will make sure everyone gets lined up properly.

3: VIKINGS Darren Sharper still is one of the NFL's smartest players and takes chances to make big plays. Dwight Smith plays with emotion and hits hard but must work on his tackling technique.

4: EAGLES Brian Dawkins still plays at an elite level. Sean Considine has put on weight in order to get better near the line of scrimmage.

5: REDSKINS Sean Taylor has elite speed and delivers massive hits but gambles too much. Rookie LaRon Landry also is a big hitter but will take time to adjust.

Out of sheer curiosity, I did a quick lookup to see how this list of "best safety tandems" correlates to passing defense. As expected, I discovered that having a good safety tandem (as defined by these guys), didn't do much to help the overall pass defense in 2006:

Team -- NFL Ranking -- Yards Per Game

Oakland -- 1st -- 150.8

Indianapolis -- 2nd -- 159.2

New Orleans -- 3rd -- 178.4

Carolina -- 4th -- 187.5

Miami -- 5th -- 187.9

...

Eagles -- 9th -- 191.7

...

Skins -- 23rd -- 218.2 (w/o Landry but with a Pro Bowler)

Cowboys -- 24th -- 219.1

...

Cardinals -- 30th -- 230.9

...

Vikings -- 32nd -- 238.6

Interpret these stats as you may, but I see this as evidence that having the best safety tandem in the league doesn't do jack :pooh: for stopping the pass. Looking at the top 5, I say our passing defense this season will hinge upon the performance of Jason Campbell (to provide us leads and thus make things incredibly easier for GW to call), and Andre Carter (who will be first team All-Pro with 17 sacks ).

Not to suggest the safeties aren't important, they certainly are, especially the way GW uses them. But having the "best safety tandem" in the league, something we're all getting giddy about coming into ownership of, may not be all it's cracked up to be.

Course that's just opinion, I could be wrong. And in this case, I hope I am.

[ntotoro]

People have said that Brunell will be coming off the Cap next year for 2-3 years now already, lol.

It's not guaranteed. He's just too super-smart.

He essentially only has a one-year deal since re-working his contract this offseason.

[#98QBKiller]

Most of this is probably because LL hasn't played in an NFL game yet. Give him next season and watch us shoot to the top of that list.

[Ant15fromNJ]

I guess we will see at the end of the season who has the best safties.

[trez]

I think the cowboys were a bit high, but I don't have a major beef with the rest of this. ST regressed last year and LL hasn't taken a snap yet.

[Habib1852]

as much as i want to say that we have the best safety tandem. we have to look at some facts. Sean Taylor was a beast last year but did slack a little bit in pass coverage. I think that he will do a lot better this year but based on last year's production the skins should not be warranted anything better than 4th best especially since Landry hasn't played a down.

At the end of the season. they will have the skins ranked with the best safety tandem hands down.

[SKINS FAN #56]

Theyre all haters, **** DALLAS!

[BurgundyMalaise]

I think in the end, we'll be able to keep our players, easily enough. Right now, we're $5 million under the cap. The cap goes up I think $7 million each year. We have vets like Brunell, Wynn, Daniels, and probably Springs coming off the cap after this year. Those four are some of our highest cap eaters.

Unfortunately, we have a number of players whose cap figures balloon for the 2008 year. Griffin makes $6 million plus this year and counts for $6.16 million again next year. Jon Jansen's cap hit balloons from $3.4 million this year to $8.8 million next year. Brandon Lloyd goes from $2.4 million this year to $4.2 million next year, and I'm sure that he'll be a prime candidate to get cut. Santana Moss goes from $3.2 million this year to $5.8 million, and Portis goes from $4 million to $8.9 million. Chris Samuels is set to count for $8.25 million against the cap, and Randy Thomas is set to count for $8.8 million against the cap (quite a crapload too our offensive line). And Marcus Washington is set to count for $6.4 million against the cap.

So, Griffin, Jansen, Lloyd, Moss, Portis, Samuels, Thomas, and Washington are set to amount for $57.3+ million of our cap next year (the number is actually higher because I rounded down on all of the figures). That being said, we have the best captologist in the league, and many have predicted "salary cap hell" for the Redskins for the past 5, 6, 7 years, and it's never come. Landry's contract and Cooley and Taylor's extensions will most likely be heavily backloaded, and I'm sure that there will be a good amount of negotiation and salary turned to bonuses so as to lower individual cap numbers.

However, the good news is that we have a lot of players who don't make a lot too. Jason Campbell, in terms of starting quarterback salary, makes a pittance, and he's signed on for a while. Key contributers like Rocky McIntosh, Kedrick Golston, and Taylor all make very little, and of course, our depth guys pretty much all make the vet min or thereabouts. And with the salary cap ballooning, I don't think that there will be very many top free agents available in future, as teams will all have the ability to sign their guys. And anyone that does hit the open market will command an extraordinary salary, i.e. Nate Clements. I think it's safe to say that our free agency dominance is at an end, in terms of signing the highest profile players. We'll probably see offseasons like the one we had this year, in which we signed a couple key guys for moderate salaries, keep our draft picks, and remain pretty quiet.

I think we'll be fine in regards to the cap

also, all my cap figures came from thehogs.net's terrific compilation, which can be found here: http://www.thehogs.net/washington-redskins/salary.php

Well I def. appreciate your facts. I was feeling much better until you highlighted all the players whose salaries will blow up next year lol. But hopefully we'll find a way to get it done. I'm sure Brunell and some of those guys will give us some space so we'll see what happens.

[BurgundyMalaise]

as much as i want to say that we have the best safety tandem. we have to look at some facts. Sean Taylor was a beast last year but did slack a little bit in pass coverage. I think that he will do a lot better this year but based on last year's production the skins should not be warranted anything better than 4th best especially since Landry hasn't played a down.

At the end of the season. they will have the skins ranked with the best safety tandem hands down.

The best safety tandem in mankinds history more like it.

[Fred288156]

Out of sheer curiosity, I did a quick lookup to see how this list of "best safety tandems" correlates to passing defense. As expected, I discovered that having a good safety tandem (as defined by these guys), didn't do much to help the overall pass defense in 2006:

Team -- NFL Ranking -- Yards Per Game

Oakland -- 1st -- 150.8

Indianapolis -- 2nd -- 159.2

New Orleans -- 3rd -- 178.4

Carolina -- 4th -- 187.5

Miami -- 5th -- 187.9

...

Eagles -- 9th -- 191.7

...

Skins -- 23rd -- 218.2 (w/o Landry but with a Pro Bowler)

Cowboys -- 24th -- 219.1

...

Cardinals -- 30th -- 230.9

...

Vikings -- 32nd -- 238.6

Interpret these stats as you may, but I see this as evidence that having the best safety tandem in the league doesn't do jack :pooh: for stopping the pass. Looking at the top 5, I say our passing defense this season will hinge upon the performance of Jason Campbell (to provide us leads and thus make things incredibly easier for GW to call), and Andre Carter (who will be first team All-Pro with 17 sacks ).

Not to suggest the safeties aren't important, they certainly are, especially the way GW uses them. But having the "best safety tandem" in the league, something we're all getting giddy about coming into ownership of, may not be all it's cracked up to be.

Course that's just opinion, I could be wrong. And in this case, I hope I am.

Don't be coming around here with all that research and factual observation and whatnot. Nobody here pays any attention to that. I think the point of the thread was to get ppl up in arms over the fact that the Cowboys were ranked higher than the Skins.

Seriously, you make some good points. I didn't realize that 5th out of 16, despite starting a rookie was so disrespectful.

Either way, I hear from other threads that we build defenses from "the outside, in" (I'm not sure I buy that logic) so hopefully the addition of guys like Landry will improve not just the pass defense, but make us a little more stout against the run.

Here's hopin'

[taylorcoreskin]

How could we be below the eagles and the cowboys? Considine isn't good by any means. And the cowboys had a terrible pass defense despite great corner play.

[Taylor 36]

The Cardinals actually have a decent pair of safeties. Wilson's one of the most underrated guys in the league, he's an incredible athlete. And Sharper still is one of the best coverage safeties in atleast the NFC, he's on the verge of hitting the wall age-wise though, but anyone doubting him just needs to remember that nasty hit he timed perfectly on Moss in the back of the endzone in our opener on MNF against Minnesota last season.

The only thing I'd really openly argue against is the Cowboys' ranking, that's based purely on the flash of the two big names. Williams stinks, everyone who actually watches football knows this, and Hamlin isn't the greatest at coverage either. If Pat Watkins mans up and takes on some more leadership, bulks up a little, and works on his ball-skills, I wouldn't be surprised to see him take Hamlin's place within a couple seasons. Seattle had one of the lesser pass defenses in the league last year, and they still let Hamlin walk.

Can't argue against the Skins' ranking too much- if Landry pans out like he's advertised, we'll undoubtedly be #1 by the end of the season, but until then it's Taylor coming off a mediocre year and an NFL unproven rookie. #5 ain't so bad when you look at it that way.

:applause: I have to agree with this, because it makes the most non-biased sense of any post I have seen in awhile.

[Petey_Crack]

I think that you gotta put Eagles at 1, Cards at 2, Redskins/Vikings 3, and cowboys maybe 5 or off the list.

Eagles at #1? Besides Dawkins who do they have at safety? Cards at 1, Vikings 2, Us at 3 (until next year when Landry has proven himself), and then Eagles at 4

[deejaydana]

Is anyone in the entire NFL more over-rated than Roy Williams? Sure he does hit hard but the guy stinks in coverage and gets burned consistently.

[D-Day]

I think in the end, we'll be able to keep our players, easily enough. Right now, we're $5 million under the cap. The cap goes up I think $7 million each year. We have vets like Brunell, Wynn, Daniels, and probably Springs coming off the cap after this year. Those four are some of our highest cap eaters.

Unfortunately, we have a number of players whose cap figures balloon for the 2008 year. Griffin makes $6 million plus this year and counts for $6.16 million again next year. Jon Jansen's cap hit balloons from $3.4 million this year to $8.8 million next year. Brandon Lloyd goes from $2.4 million this year to $4.2 million next year, and I'm sure that he'll be a prime candidate to get cut. Santana Moss goes from $3.2 million this year to $5.8 million, and Portis goes from $4 million to $8.9 million. Chris Samuels is set to count for $8.25 million against the cap, and Randy Thomas is set to count for $8.8 million against the cap (quite a crapload too our offensive line). And Marcus Washington is set to count for $6.4 million against the cap.

So, Griffin, Jansen, Lloyd, Moss, Portis, Samuels, Thomas, and Washington are set to amount for $57.3+ million of our cap next year (the number is actually higher because I rounded down on all of the figures). That being said, we have the best captologist in the league, and many have predicted "salary cap hell" for the Redskins for the past 5, 6, 7 years, and it's never come. Landry's contract and Cooley and Taylor's extensions will most likely be heavily backloaded, and I'm sure that there will be a good amount of negotiation and salary turned to bonuses so as to lower individual cap numbers.

However, the good news is that we have a lot of players who don't make a lot too. Jason Campbell, in terms of starting quarterback salary, makes a pittance, and he's signed on for a while. Key contributers like Rocky McIntosh, Kedrick Golston, and Taylor all make very little, and of course, our depth guys pretty much all make the vet min or thereabouts. And with the salary cap ballooning, I don't think that there will be very many top free agents available in future, as teams will all have the ability to sign their guys. And anyone that does hit the open market will command an extraordinary salary, i.e. Nate Clements. I think it's safe to say that our free agency dominance is at an end, in terms of signing the highest profile players. We'll probably see offseasons like the one we had this year, in which we signed a couple key guys for moderate salaries, keep our draft picks, and remain pretty quiet.

I think we'll be fine in regards to the cap

also, all my cap figures came from thehogs.net's terrific compilation, which can be found here: http://www.thehogs.net/washington-redskins/salary.php

Restructure is the key word,

The skins are actually looking better next year cap wise then they have in years before the contract shuffling begins.