AsburySkinsFan Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 I get it. It's more of a "New World Order" worry for me, being anti-religion myself. A world wide order? I'm not sure that I really see that happening, just to many differences, between the nations and people's the only thing that could make it happen is an Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 I have to admit, there was no way I thought a national ID card conversation would turn to religion. That makes it a little scarier than I thought. Michael_33 pops in every 6 months or so with his, uh, interesting brand of newspaper eschatology. It was his goal all along to spur this discussion. And AsburySkinsFan, you could have included R.C. Sproul's picture. The other 3 are fairly obscure, especially to those of us who have never attended Asbury Theological Sminary . (Though Hannegraff does have a fair bit of exposure). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 A world wide order? I'm not sure that I really see that happening, just to many differences, between the nations and people's the only thing that could make it happen is an Empire. I'm not trying to start an arguement about religion with you ASF, but there are a lot of us out there who think the thought of a NWO or even aliens for that matter, are the things that are the furthest stretch from a fairy tail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Michael_33 pops in every 6 months or so with his, uh, interesting brand of newspaper eschatology. It was his goal all along to spur this discussion.And AsburySkinsFan, you could have included R.C. Sproul's picture. The other 3 are fairly obscure, especially to those of us who have never attended Asbury Theological Sminary . (Though Hannegraff does have a fair bit of exposure). Hey Craiq Koester is a Lutheran, he teaches a Luther Seminary. As for Sproul, I personally haven't read enough of his stuff to include him being that he's an Amillenialist guy we tend to not run in the same circles. But I do understand that he should be included in the non-Dispensational discussions, as I think the Amill arguments are very helpful in this whole discussion. Happy now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70th Week Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 So not only are you going to proof text the Bible but now you're going to proof text some obscure text that was written somewhere between 374-627, by Lord only knows who, as evidence for rapture? sorry to chime in so late, but I've been busy at work the last couple days, but you wouldn't know anything about that, would you preacher? You work 1 hour a week and if you work overtime everyone gets mad :laugh: (that was a joke) And I'm not claiming this is clear evidence for a rapture, I'm just showing you evidence of its mentioning before Darby.Revelation clearly shows the imprint of a rapturing of the church.The verses themselves (in Revelation) equate the vials of God's wrath to the 10 plagues of Moses's era. The people of God, (both Israel and the saints), will be kept safe from the vials, while the wicked will without a doubt suffer the plagues found in those vials. Look at Rev 16:2. Who receives the vial? That's right, those "whose has the mark of the beast". Look at the other vials as well. They all seem to affect the wicked. Look at verse 6. The first three vials are poured upon the earth, and the seas and the rivers became blood, and every living soul in the sea dies. No more fish, no more whales, no more sealife. Look at the reason why God did this. "Because they have shed the blood of the saints and prophets". Look at the fourth vial. Whom is affected? It is the ones who curse God because of the sores and the sun. That's the wicked. The fifth vial is poured directly onto the kingdom of the beast itself. So everyone that is a part of that kingdom will suffer from the chaos that the kingdom of the beast will suffer. The sixth vial is poured on the Euphrates, why? Because the kings of the east will go by that way to get to Israel, to fight with the beast against the Lord. And the Seventh vial is poured on the city Babylon, when God remembers the sins of that city. everything that happens to that city afterwards wil be because of that vial. Also, as a result of that vial, every mountain and island is leveled. Who is affected? The wicked. Many of the wicked that live in the cities that are set on mountains will be destroyed when the Lord levels their mountains. Again, all of the plagues will affect the wicked in one way or another. Look at it like this. All of the seas being turned into blood, do you think that the kings of the east will want to sail over dead seas? I know I wouldn't especially if I was wicked and have these darn sores over my body and the sun beaming down on me like I was in an eternal desert. To say that the saints would be in any danger when the vials are poured, that just shows me the utter lack of understanding of the vials and their contents. Moreover, the only vial that could possibly harm the saints is the last one, when the mountains and islands are leveled. But look at Verse 15. Many can say with this one that before the seventh vial is poured, the Lord Himself takes us out of this world, and we would meet Him in the air then. So, that vial wouldn't affect us either. Just look at Revelation as a whole.When is the last time the church is even mentioned in the book? chapter 4:1 when he tells John to "come up hither" and then the church isn't mentioned not one time after that. Why? because we have been called out. Why is there a need for the 144 thousand witnessing Jews if the saints are still here? Are God's saints appointed unto wrath? Was Lot's family saved from destruction? Noah's family? To say we (the saints) will be on earth during tribulation is either ludicrous or you haven't read the terrible things that are going to take place on earth at this time period. This world will be in utter chaos at this time and Jesus said Himself to count yourself worthy to escape the things that are coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70th Week Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Daniel is not Revelation. And Daniel was not talking about the entire book, he was talking about the timing of such things, and the fact that God didn't give him the timing could indicate that it was yet to come or it was happening very soon in Daniel's time (i.e. its already in our past). Daniel's prophecy is already past? wow..... Ah, yes, whenever there is a lack of reasoning for something just toss out the "divine hand" argument, because that is supposedly an irrefutable argument. When the much more plausible argument is that the readers understood what the likes of Daniel and John were talking about and valued their words as such. You of all people should leave room for faith,no? I mean haven't you ever seen anything that was unexplained by no other reason but by the hand of God? And John's reader's? He was exiled on island....His words were given from GOD, he wasn't writing a term paper for his seminary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 EPIC Report: "REAL ID Implementation Review: Few Benefits, Staggering Costs." At a REAL ID workshop at the Berkman Center, EPIC today released a new report on the Department of Homeland Security’s national identification proposal, the REAL ID system. "May 11, 2008 is the statutory deadline for implementation of the REAL ID system. Yet on this date, not one State is in compliance with the federal law creating a national identification system. In fact, 19 States have passed resolutions or laws rejecting the national ID program. The Department of Homeland Security has faced so many obstacles with the REAL ID system that the agency now plans an implementation deadline of 2017." http://epic.org/privacy/id-cards/ So much for those National ID Cards. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Preface, I haven't read this thread... What exactly is the point of these cards, I have heard tidbits about them, but I really don't know the purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Preface, I haven't read this thread...What exactly is the point of these cards, I have heard tidbits about them, but I really don't know the purpose? basically, you are the first person to post in this thread after it was bumped. It was originally written before the date stated in the title and now it is after that date with nothing having happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 http://epic.org/privacy/id-cards/So much for those National ID Cards. :laugh: you should have waited one or two days to post so it would seem like it wasn't a different year. instead, no, you posted 1 day before the anniversary of the last post in the thread. i hope you're happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 http://epic.org/privacy/id-cards/So much for those National ID Cards. :laugh: But, but, but ... this was one of the definite signs for the end times were imminent.:doh: I never understood how a standard driving license format within the USA was the same as having the mark of the beast engraved on the forehead of the entire world's population, but as we're not experts in prophecy interpretation, perhaps it's just a little tricky for us to understand. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 basically, you are the first person to post in this thread after it was bumped. It was originally written before the date stated in the title and now it is after that date with nothing having happened. So you offer nothing to my question... I realize it was a bumped thread. I was just asking a general question. Maybe I should have read the thread to avoid confusion (Perhaps the answer lies within). My apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Preface, I haven't read this thread...What exactly is the point of these cards, I have heard tidbits about them, but I really don't know the purpose? A brief summary ... DHS thinks it is too easy to get a state driver's license ... an ID that we all treat as reliable. There are no consistent standards on what proof of identity you need to get a driver's license. The REAL ID program would require states to only issue licenses to people based on certain documents, and also require those licenses to have a consistent format which is machine readable. That format would be a 2-D barcode which is already used in most state licenses. Privacy advocates said this was an invasion of privacy. States complain because changing their current policies and systems will cost lots of cash which the Feds aren't offering. The end-time delusionists took a national ID card to be the fulfilment of a prophecy that the mark of the beast will be engraved on everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_33 Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 People don't truly understand the significants and the affects of a "national id card" I don't believe... Sure...at first it will be like any other credit card I'm sure,where some have one and others don't...Then as policies and requirements are made,it will become impossible to live without one... Eventually,you will probably need one for every goods and services that society provides us,much like our drivers license... Does that mean it's the "mark of the beast"?Absolutely not....Not at all. But it will be a path to that direction..I believe in my heart... In the bible...It is said that those who do not wear the "mark of the beast" or the "number of his name" will not be able to buy,sell or trade unless he has it... Unless he has the mark on his "right hand" or his "forehead"... Does that mean we are all going to have 3 HUGE numbers that say 666 written along those areas...?No..not at all! But those numbers represent the devil or Satan if you will..Or in this case...The number of the Anti-christ. Now since I could toos my "ID" card or even drivers License right out the window...then I doubt it's a form of paper or plastic...that I could just toss away at any given moment.. So that means,it most likely is a tattoo or a micro-chip...or anything really...It could be a barcode....It could read "United states" to keep an eye on all the immigrants crossing the border...It could be a stamp of "Obamas presidential seal" maybe...who knows?(Just using Obama as an example on this issue) The point is...What are YOU going to do about it?Not eat?Not live?"When" this becomes in affect and the Antichrist is in power...(and your still on this earth)the point is,you will have two options! You can wear it and go to hell! Or you can deny it and flee to the mountains and live a life as a criminal on this planet and eventually die.... Then you will be in the kingdom of heaven for showing your true loyalty to GOD! (I'm personally not sure how the rapture will work)Some say before the tribulation...some say after the tribulation....Some say in the middle of the 3 1/2 year tribulation period...(tribulation being 7 years by the way..!)the period a treaty is signed to not attack Isreal and have peace in the world! 3 1/2 years into the tribulation,the antichrist will move to attack Isreal...Don't think it can happen...?UH...Just watch the news everyday... Point is...?It will happen!But nobody knows the day nor the hour of that day! Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 People don't truly understand the significants and the affects of a "national id card" I don't believe... You have this exactly backwards. You believe in end-times prophecies, one of which is everyone having the mark of the beast. You twist anything and everything you see to fit your view. Taking a US plan to have a consistent format for driving licenses within the USA and extrapolating that to everyone worldwide requiring them to transact any business is silly beyond any belief. Retailers will not be using the government issued REAL ID to determine who can buy their products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeSkin Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 This thread is an... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_33 Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 You have this exactly backwards.You believe in end-times prophecies, one of which is everyone having the mark of the beast. You twist anything and everything you see to fit your view. Taking a US plan to have a consistent format for driving licenses within the USA and extrapolating that to everyone worldwide requiring them to transact any business is silly beyond any belief. Retailers will not be using the government issued REAL ID to determine who can buy their products. Oh..so you mean it won't happen,like it already has with the Euro's...? Lets see...The real "ID" act will have your medical history,criminal record,how many times you go shopping in a week.... Your saying with the power of Technology,that the Government won't and can't keep tabs on you? Buddy...They already started with the Patriot act my friend....All they need to do now,is upgrade when they want too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_33 Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 This thread is an... Epic fail to a thread that has 91 replies...? That's like saying the Giants epicly failed in the Superbowl.....Duh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUforREDSKINS Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 you beat me to the fail pic. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I've been thinking a lot about this. And while I don't want to be seen as crazy I also can't deny the truth. I'm with you Brother Michael. It's coming. I can see it and I can feel it. We need to make a stand. NOW!!! Are you with me Brother? Are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Oh..so you mean it won't happen,like it already has with the Euro's...? WTF are you talking about? Lets see...The real "ID" act will have your medical history,criminal record,how many times you go shopping in a week.... REAL ID means a VA driving license will have a similar format to a CA driving license. It stores no information on you. How does this reveal my shopping habits?:laugh: Your saying with the power of Technology,that the Government won't and can't keep tabs on you? No I'm not, but that has nothing to do with REAL ID. Buddy...They already started with the Patriot act my friend....All they need to do now,is upgrade when they want too... Buddy ... I've been involved with information technology and privacy for years, thanks for your concern. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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