Best Coach of ALL time ?

[Jeremiah_Johnson]

Everyone has their opinion. I just really value what Parcells has done wherever he's gone. He has taken Horrid teams to contenders. Over and over again. You can't deny what he's done.

I'm not dogging Gibbs, but lets face it, he had one good 10 year run. He built a team, especially the Oline that was probably the most dominant in NFL history, and he rode that wave to 3 titles. Good for him. He deserved it, but 2 of those SB's were in strike years too, which has to take at least some of th shine off them.

I'm not going to get into a debate about the worth of the supebowl trophies during the strike years, outside of saying this.......if it were any other team (especially the cowboys), you'd be dogging the trophies a little.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

I'm not here to say that Gibbs is the best of all time, but he's certainly better than Parcells. It's nice that he took a few teams and made them better, but ultimately he didn't win SB's.

Gibbs was a hell of a coach and is definitly one of the greatest of all time and in my book before and after Bill Parcells tenure at Dallas he is better then The Tuna as an all time great.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Everyone has their opinion. I just really value what Parcells has done wherever he's gone. He has taken Horrid teams to contenders. Over and over again. You can't deny what he's done.

I'm not dogging Gibbs, but lets face it, he had one good 10 year run. He built a team, especially the Oline that was probably the most dominant in NFL history, and he rode that wave to 3 titles. Good for him. He deserved it, but 2 of those SB's were in strike years too, which has to take at least some of th shine off them.

I'm not going to get into a debate about the worth of the supebowl trophies during the strike years, outside of saying this.......if it were any other team (especially the cowboys), you'd be dogging the trophies a little.

\

Nope. Not considering the strike team Gibbs fielded beat the likes of Dorsett and White and a few other starters. Not considering every team in the first strike season had exactly the same chance and the playoffs were even extended.

I like how you ignored what I posted about the success besides just the 3 Lombardi's he had with his offense.

A good ten year run is nothing to sneeze at when we were contenders just about every year and we brought home hardware three times. Ask the Eagles how hard that is.

[Birdlives]

Gibbs is a good coach, but I don't think he belongs in the top 5.

Landry to me was the best. 20 straight winning seasons. Teams were always in contention. Very inventive, invented many things that are still used today.

Shula. Very similar to Landry, always in contention over a very long period. Also very inventive

Lombardi was obviously great, but short lived. Had 10 great years. Very inventive a when you think "tough coaching" you think of Lombardi

Walsh. Well, its Walsh, incredible coach.

Parcells. What he did to rebuild horrific teams is incredible. He didn't just do it once, or twice, but 3 times. Giants, Jets, New England, and no doubt he made Dallas better too, but not to the degree of the other teams.

Gibbs basically had a real good 10 year run. He had the hogs. If you have the hogs, you can basically plug in any qb or rb there and your going to win period. See Timmy Smith or Doug Williams.

A great 10 year period of coaching, but how inventive was he? He's not the only person to have a great 10 years but not be on the list. Chuck Noll, Madden, Belechick.

I can see where you're coming from but I dont think you've taken everything into consideration. If longevity is important to you, then I would think Halas would be #1 over Landry.

Halas coached the Bears for 40 seasons, taking time off to serve in WWII among other things. He won 6 titles as Bears HC, had more wins than Landry and was an innovator in his own right, creating an off-season program, daily practices, and studying film of opposing teams. He had streaks of 9 straight and then 16 straight winning seasons. One losing season in 26.

Lombardi may not have coached as long a time, but to win as much as he did, never have a losing season, and win more titles than Landry in a shorter time frame, not to mention winning 3 titles in a row, (no one else's teams have done that) would place him in the argument.

Noll won four Superbowls in six years and had only a slightly worse winning percentage.

I see the argument for Landry, but I dont buy it. All three coaches above were better. Of course, all this is opinion based and you're welcome to yours, me, I just dont see it.

Someone else already answered the inventive part on Gibbs. If you didn't know how inventive he was, you're missing a major part of NFL history.

Dont even go there with Parcells. Definitely a HOF coach, but he's not in the top 5 argument. He lacks consistentcy and titles in his resume. Also, he did not pick the players in New England so giving him credit for rebuilding that franchise wouldn't be accurate. His whole reason for leaving was the infamous "chef who doesnt get to pick the groceries line".

Anyways, :2cents:

[doncherry]

1.Walsh

1b. Lombardi

2. Noll

3. Shula

4. Landry

5. Belichik

6. Gibbs

7. Jimmy Johnson

[Riggo#44]

Everyone has their opinion. I just really value what Parcells has done wherever he's gone. He has taken Horrid teams to contenders. Over and over again. You can't deny what he's done.

I'm not dogging Gibbs, but lets face it, he had one good 10 year run. He built a team, especially the Oline that was probably the most dominant in NFL history, and he rode that wave to 3 titles. Good for him. He deserved it, but 2 of those SB's were in strike years too, which has to take at least some of th shine off them.

I'm not going to get into a debate about the worth of the supebowl trophies during the strike years, outside of saying this.......if it were any other team (especially the cowboys), you'd be dogging the trophies a little.

Shocker - JJ downplaying Gibbs accomplishments.

So just having a good offensive line is what it takes to win three Super Bowls - with three different QBs? And three different RBs? How many HOFers are currently in the HOF from Gibbs tenure?

Not saying Gibbs is the greatest - I voted for Lomdardi. But he is certainly better than what you give him credit for.

Let me guess you voted for Landry...

[skinsfan44]

I voted for Lombardi.

George Halas should have been included in this poll. :2cents:

My top 5 are...

1) Lombardi

2) Halas

3) Walsh

4) Gibbs

5) Landry

Who ever voted for Turner must have been a Cowboys fan. :doh:

[pjfootballer]

[=Jeremiah_Johnson]

Gibbs basically had a real good 10 year run. He had the hogs. If you have the hogs, you can basically plug in any qb or rb there and your going to win period. See Timmy Smith or Doug Williams.

That's what made him so great. That he took non HOF QB's and won the SB 3 SEPERATE times. Lombardi always had Starr, Landry had Staubach, JJ had Aikman, Noll had Bradshaw, Walsh had Montana and Shula had Greise/Marino. Seems like a great coach wouldn't have to rely on a HOFer. Gibbs didn't rely on one.

A great 10 year period of coaching, but how inventive was he? He's not the only person to have a great 10 years but not be on the list. Chuck Noll, Madden, Belechick.

How many coaches have actually HAD a 10 year run of greatness. And have you ever heard of the H-back? How about the 3 TE set? They weren't around before he got there. Counter Trey? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

[pjfootballer]

Everyone has their opinion. I just really value what Parcells has done wherever he's gone. He has taken Horrid teams to contenders. Over and over again. You can't deny what he's done.

I'm not dogging Gibbs, but lets face it, he had one good 10 year run. He built a team, especially the Oline that was probably the most dominant in NFL history, and he rode that wave to 3 titles. Good for him. He deserved it, but 2 of those SB's were in strike years too, which has to take at least some of th shine off them.

I'm not going to get into a debate about the worth of the supebowl trophies during the strike years, outside of saying this.......if it were any other team (especially the cowboys), you'd be dogging the trophies a little.

This is a bunch of BS that I hate to hear from any fan when talking about our strike year wins. In 1982, 27 other teams had the same chance. They didn't do it. Again in 1987, 27 other teams had a chance. Again, they didn't do it. Everyone had the same number of games and the same number of chances to win it. We got it done when it mattered.

In 1982 they played 9 regular season games, so whose to say what would have happened in the other 7 games. We got on a roll and stayed on one.

In 1987 they played 15 games. We had New England cancelled. Ok, so instead of 11-4 we would've been 12-4. New England sucked then. It would've probably turned out the same.

Does the Raiders in 1981 or the Steelers in 2005 get tarnished because they barely made it in as a wild card? It should if ours is tarnished.

Sorry, JJ, but that just really chaps my ass when people say we weren't legit in either year. Load of crap. The other teams didn't get it done. Plain and simple.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Not going to be popular, once again, but it's Paul Brown. 43 is Paul Browns defense. It's the base defense that is prevenlent in vertually all levels of football, anywhere in the world. The basic priciples of the 34 and the cover2 were also Paul Browns idea but perfected later by others. The WC, Run and Shoot, or really any multiple receiver offense is a dirivative of Paul Browns Ohio offense. Paul Brown taught it to Walsh when Walsh was with the Bengals and now everybody calls it Walsh's WC but it's not. It's Paul Browns Ohio offense that was run so succesfully by Graham. Flooding zones, pick routes, WR routes that are predicated on how the defense reacts to your first move is Paul Browns. Calling plays from the sideline was Paul Browns.

The first coach to hire a coaching staff full time is Paul Browns. The first scouting system for Pro players was Paul Browns. Intelligance testing was Paul Browns idea. Play books and class room education was Paul Brown. Film to study players and break down games was Paul Browns. Scouting teams you played was Paul Browns. Heck, teams eating and sleeping in the same hotels were Paul Browns.

This list goes on but all you really have to do is look at his record, Win/Loss, championships etc. Even in college, he was extremely succesful. The guy litterally built two franchises, the Bengals and the Browns.

Lastly, but certainly not least, is Paul Brown's influence on sports, all sports, due to his minority policy. Paul Brown was the first person in pro sports to hire black athletes to compete on his teams. In 1946, Paul Brown hired Marion Motley and Bill Willis to play football for him. This was a full year before Jackie Robinson was hired by O'Malley and the Dodgers. This changed the face of sports for ever, not to mention everyone's life in America, as we know it. The significance of this single act is more important then all of the football related accomplishments IMO. For this alone, he should be recognized as the greatest football coach of all time.

Paul Brown, and everybody else is really a distant second in my book. In fact, I would go so far as to say that Paul Brown may be the best coach of all time in any sport.

JMO of course and understand that I am a Cowboy fan down to the ground. Landry, Johnson and even Parcells could all be on the list if I wanted to be a homer but it wouldn't be true IMO. I would have to say Paul Brown is the best there ever was.

[Birdlives]

Not going to be popular, once again, but it's Paul Brown. 43 is Paul Browns defense. It's the base defense that is prevenlent in vertually all levels of football, anywhere in the world. The basic priciples of the 34 and the cover2 were also Paul Browns idea but perfected later by others. The WC, Run and Shoot, or really any multiple receiver offense is a dirivative of Paul Browns Ohio offense. Paul Brown taught it to Walsh when Walsh was with the Bengals and now everybody calls it Walsh's WC but it's not. It's Paul Browns Ohio offense that was run so succesfully by Graham. Flooding zones, pick routes, WR routes that are predicated on how the defense reacts to your first move is Paul Browns. Calling plays from the sideline was Paul Browns.

The first coach to hire a coaching staff full time is Paul Browns. The first scouting system for Pro players was Paul Browns. Intelligance testing was Paul Browns idea. Play books and class room education was Paul Brown. Film to study players and break down games was Paul Browns. Scouting teams you played was Paul Browns. Heck, teams eating and sleeping in the same hotels were Paul Browns.

This list goes on but all you really have to do is look at his record, Win/Loss, championships etc. Even in college, he was extremely succesful. The guy litterally built two franchises, the Bengals and the Browns.

Lastly, but certainly not least, is Paul Brown's influence on sports, all sports, due to his minority policy. Paul Brown was the first person in pro sports to hire black athletes to compete on his teams. In 1946, Paul Brown hired Marion Motley and Bill Willis to play football for him. This was a full year before Jackie Robinson was hired by O'Malley and the Dodgers. This changed the face of sports for ever, not to mention everyone's life in America, as we know it. The significance of this single act is more important then all of the football related accomplishments IMO. For this alone, he should be recognized as the greatest football coach of all time.

Paul Brown, and everybody else is really a distant second in my book. In fact, I would go so far as to say that Paul Brown may be the best coach of all time in any sport.

JMO of course and understand that I am a Cowboy fan down to the ground. Landry, Johnson and even Parcells could all be on the list if I wanted to be a homer but it wouldn't be true IMO. I would have to say Paul Brown is the best there ever was.

Excellent post. You give credit to the cowboys fans with this type of in depth information.

Halas, however, was the first coach to employ film study. Tha's really the only thing I can find wrong with your reasoning.

[bubba9497]

Gibbs, Lombardi, Brown, Knoll, Halas

are the top 5

[ArmchairRedskin]

I learned about Paul Brown today. Sweet! Never even really heard of the guy before.

Apparently he experimented with helmet radios way back then?

[DarkLadyRaven]

I learned about Paul Brown today. Sweet! Never even really heard of the guy before.

Apparently he experimented with helmet radios way back then?

If you were a ravens fan posting on our board many cleveland browns fans would tell you about him.

a little off topic

Genius Guy, but a little dodgey to me, the way he calls out the ravens founder as greedy was totally classless and way out of line :mad:

Fun Fact: Paul Brown was fired for the fact he made a trade with the Redskins behind the browns owners back, the trade ended up (for no ones fault really) being a MASSIVE bust. Thats not the way he spinned it in his autobio.

[Warhead36]

Steve Spurrier

[Jeremiah_Johnson]

Shocker - JJ downplaying Gibbs accomplishments.

So just having a good offensive line is what it takes to win three Super Bowls - with three different QBs? And three different RBs? How many HOFers are currently in the HOF from Gibbs tenure?

Not saying Gibbs is the greatest - I voted for Lomdardi. But he is certainly better than what you give him credit for.

Let me guess you voted for Landry...

Who's downplaying? Gibbs isn't in my top 5. You think if you did a poll on Espn you'd see Gibbs as a top 5 coach? Not even close pal.

He had a very good run for 10 years, thats it. So did madden, so did knoll. I'm not saying the guy isn't a very good coach, not by a longshot, but he's not top 5. He just ain't.

When you keep talking about 3 qb's to superbowls, you simply make my point for me. The offensive line won those championships, not your qb's.

Need I remind you Trent Dilfer has a ring? If he can do it, most pro qb's can do it if there is enough talent around them. The Hogs were in my opinion the best Oline ever assembled. They carried that team for years. Most everyone else was interchangeable with that line.

Remember Timmy Smith's big game in the SB? Are you going to say Gibbs had something to do with that? Did he "coach em up"? Or was it the 30 foot gaping holes you coulda drove a Peterbuilt through? Or was Timmy Smith really that good? Duh.

And yes, I vote for Landry.... read up about him.

The Cowboys under Landry had their first winning season and their first NFL Eastern Conference championship in 1966. They didn't fall below .500 again until 1986. During that period, Landry's teams had 20 straight winning seasons, 13 divisional championship, five NFC titles and victories in Super Bowls VI and XII. The Cowboys also played in Super Bowls V, IX and XIII.

His regular season career record is 250-162-6 and his record counting playoffs is 270-178-6. Only Halas and Don Shula top his 270 career wins. Landry gained a reputation as a great technical innovator, as well as an inspirational leader. He introduced the "flex defense" and "multiple offense" in the 1960s. In the 1970s, he restructured the "shotgun" or "spread" offense and, in the 1980s, he embraced and helped develop the "situation substitution" concept of handling his player talent.

[bedlamVR]

1. Landry

2. Shula

3. Lombardi

4. Walsh

5. Parcells

And you say Redskins fans are biased... these are your top 5 ? .... I am not saying Gibbs is the best of all time but you are certanly down playing his achievements .... you even took a shot at the strike shortened seasons despite every team was under the same conditions.

Landry has some great years but also great players 12 HOF players in his 29 year career.

How many does Gibbs have from his ten year (actually 12 years) run .... 1 and he (Riggins) retired just 3 years into the Gibbs run.

Landry has some great stats but why doesn't he get labelled with the compiler tag which ESPN and cowboys fans always want to attach to Redskins players like Art Monk, Russ Grimm, Joe Jacoby suffer from.

Just for the record

In 1996, Gibbs was enshrined in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. He was one of the winningest coaches in NFL history, at that time having a record of 124 wins and 60 losses, and a post-season record of 16 wins and five losses. His combined winning percentage of .683 was third all-time (behind Vince Lombardi and John Madden). In his 12 seasons, the Redskins won 4 NFC East titles, reached the playoffs 8 times, and finished with a losing record only once (7-9 in 1988). Gibbs is also the only NFL coach to ever win three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks and three different starting running backs.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

Brown

Lombardi

Landry

Gibbs

Shula/Walsh

[Siven]

Brown

Lombardi

Landry

Gibbs

Shula/Walsh

:applause:

I'm 19, and I've only been watching football for 14 year, and only really knowledgeable about it for a few, but I agree, from what I've read about Paul Brown in books and of course, wikipedia, I couldn't agree more.

I also think, it is sort of silly to post a top 5 coaches of all time. We'll never come to an agreement because of personal biases, not even team biases, some people just think certain people had more of an impact on the game then others. All of these men were great coaches, great doesn't even do them justice, the edge these coaches gave their teams made it seem like they were always playing 12 on 11.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

:applause:

I'm 19, and I've only been watching football for 14 year, and only really knowledgeable about it for a few, but I agree, from what I've read about Paul Brown in books and of course, wikipedia, I couldn't agree more.

I also think, it is sort of silly to post a top 5 coaches of all time. We'll never come to an agreement because of personal biases, not even team biases, some people just think certain people had more of an impact on the game then others. All of these men were great coaches, great doesn't even do them justice, the edge these coaches gave their teams made it seem like they were always playing 12 on 11.

EXACTLY...I love the way Gibbs dominated in the playoffs (his record speaks for itself) yet i love the fact that Shula can coach for 600 years...and Landry coached 20 straight winning seasons.....

Good post Siven, at your age, this is a great point and very mature!

Some Dallas fans, came out and said Parcells was better then Gibbs when he signed with Dalls (not me) and prolly feel like they would be flip flopping if they went the otherway...but to me Parcells is not on Gibbs level...and Jimmy Johnson is not even on Parcells level....and Norv...:laugh: that is just funny.

[Birdlives]

in the 1980s, he embraced and helped develop the "situation substitution" concept of handling his player talent.

A concept he got from George Allen who pioneered this type of specialization.

Sorry, but even cowboys fans disagree.

Halas, Lombardi, and Brown are head and shoulders above Landry.

[bubba9497]

Landry is in the top 10, but not ahead of

Lombardi, Gibbs, Brown, Knoll, Halas, Shula, Belichick and I would have to say Walsh is ahead of him as well

but he is ahead of Parcells

[HeHateMe]

The poll should have two answers.

Choice 1 - Lombardi

Choice 2 - All of the above.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

Landry is in the top 10, but not ahead of

Lombardi, Gibbs, Brown, Knoll, Halas, Shula, Belichick and I would have to say Walsh is ahead of him as well

but he is ahead of Parcells

with all due respect to Gibbs, who i happen to respect greatly, Why would you say Landry would not be ahead of Gibbs?

[ABQCOWBOY]

A concept he got from George Allen who pioneered this type of specialization.

Sorry, but even cowboys fans disagree.

Halas, Lombardi, and Brown are head and shoulders above Landry.

I would not say head and shoulders. I believe Landry belongs in the group behind Brown. I don't know that I would call him the best or second. In fact, I don't know that I could even say where he fits but he was very inovative in his own right. The truth is, all of these coaches were great. I mean, there are a lot of really good coaches that aren't even mentioned here. Sid Gillman changed the game on the offensive side of the house as much as anybody ever. Curly Lambo, Hank Strahm and his short passing game, Bud Grant, Weeb Eubank and Belichik is right there IMO. I'd hate to have to live off the difference between these coaches.