What is a CORE REDSKIN?

[DWinzit]

Is your biggoted arse suggesting that Dexter was somehow not football smart?

You're just a troll, go away.

DON'T FEED THE TROLL!

Reevaluate please, you are way off base!

During Gibbs 1 a core Redskin was a die hard do anything for the team good player. They often stayed a Redskin for multiple contracts spanning at least 5-10 years.

With Gibbs 2 a core Redskin is a good player and character guy who signs a contract with the team. Player and organization loyalty and greed come into the play once the contract expires.

[RFKFedEx]

Is your biggoted arse suggesting that Dexter was somehow not football smart?

You're just a troll, go away.

DON'T FEED THE TROLL!

Gigantor, you RE to a poster for whom you call a troll, yet you suggest to others not to feed him. Get your priorities straight bro.

[NoItAllRS]

A core Redskin is someone that the organization wants and that player wants to be a Redskin. Willing to do what ever for the good of the team and not the money. They (may) sign for good money but are willing to restructure their contracts when needed to help out the team. Also having all of the other good stuff like smarts, character, ect. What #26 said.

[dfbovey]

A core Redskin is made of red hot lava.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

There is no such thing as a "Core Redskin." This is nonsense coach speak.

First of all, I find it insane that skill comes last in the order of importance. I don't believe for a second Gibbs believes that. If he did, he would have never won a game. If somehow in recent years, he has come to believe that, he should be institutionalized.

Secondly, I find it amusing that people actual believe that other teams actively seek dumb criminals. (Okay, maybe the Bengals).

There are good football players and bad football players. If you have a lot of good football players, you are - 95 percent of the time - going to have a good team. Occasionally, good teams come completely off the rails (like - okay - the Bengals).

This whole concept is gobbedlygook. And Gibbs knows it too. It just sounds great in the paper.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

It would have to be a player who:

- sincerely feels honored to wear burgundy & gold

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. By this definition, we should only draft players from the 703 and 301 area codes. Because I have no idea why Chris Cooley should feel any more honored to be a Redskin then, say, a Bronco.

understands the proud tradition of this franchise

Because winning here is important, not like those towns that honor losers like Green Bay and Pittsburgh and Dallas.

has upstanding character and refuses to embarrass the team and the city

Unless you happen to be a really good running back, in which case it is perfectly cool to have a stripper pole in your home.

I actually agree that this is important because if you can't get players on the field, they are worthless to you. I just find it amazing that fans actually think that most teams don't care about these things.

has "football" smarts and is a student of the game.

Knowing how to play football is important to a football player.

gives his all for his team and his teammates, never taking a play off, even in practice.

I would have to guess that every player in history has occasionally taken a play off. This sounds like something a pee-wee football coach thinks is extremely important but probably isn't.

is reliable, dependable, and takes responsibility for his performance

I think that is in the description of every job I have ever applied for.

feels it's truly a priviledge to play this game.

Do a lot of players really consider it a burden? Aside from maybe Terrell Owens.

[Die Hard]

There is no such thing as a "Core Redskin." This is nonsense coach speak.

First of all' date=' I find it insane that skill comes last in the order of importance. I don't believe for a second Gibbs believes that. If he did, he would have never won a game. If somehow in recent years, he has come to believe that, he should be institutionalized.

Secondly, I find it amusing that people actual believe that other teams actively seek dumb criminals. (Okay, maybe the Bengals).

There are good football players and bad football players. If you have a lot of good football players, you are - 95 percent of the time - going to have a good team. Occasionally, good teams come completely off the rails (like - okay - the Bengals).

This whole concept is gobbedlygook. And Gibbs knows it too. It just sounds great in the paper.[/quote']

Quoted for emphasis.

[MRMADD]

There is no such thing as a "Core Redskin." This is nonsense coach speak.

First of all' date=' I find it insane that skill comes last in the order of importance. I don't believe for a second Gibbs believes that. If he did, he would have never won a game. If somehow in recent years, he has come to believe that, he should be institutionalized....

This whole concept is gobbedlygook. And Gibbs knows it too. It just sounds great in the paper.[/quote']

How long have you been a Redskins fan?

Here's a little history lesson for you: during the strike year, Joe Gibbs took a bunch of scab players and, in their final game, beat the Cowboys regulars in Dallas. Talent trumps heart? NEVER.

I can cite a hundred examples of brilliantly talented players who can't win. Take Jeff George, for example. He was a great football talent. Probably one of the best arms in football history. And a lousy football player because he had no concept of team play. Tom Brady has nowhere near the physical talents that Jeff George had. Would you take George over Brady?

Things like coaching, teamwork, desire, discipline, hard work, and leadership matter a great deal in football. More so than pure talent. I'd give you Jeff George and TO and I'll take Tom Brady and Jerry Rice (both of them were viewed as lacking the physical skills to play at this level). I'll beat you every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Remember, we won a Superbowl with a quarterback that no one wanted -- Doug Williams -- over the best quarterback in football -- John Elway. And we did it through the air. Did talent win? Or heart?

I can't believe this "talent trumps heart" nonsense is coming from a supposed Skins fan. History proves otherwise.

[21 always]

"core" = gUYS WHO ARE WILLING TO GIVE IT THERE ALL ... Now every now and then you get a guy like manley or riggo yet none the less they did not poision the team and hurt the Orginization. He wants players that will play there ehart out for him and trust the coaching staff. We are not the bungles. Heck Legally Sean Taylor is the only one who sticks out and he made a mistake and lets be honest . If some one steals your stuff (atv's$$$) Youre gonna be pist off! Also its about putting the team first ie why Lavar neevr got took by this coaching staff because he likes to free lance way too much. Yet all comes down to one thing for gibbs..... Will this guy give me his all and will do what ever is best for this team with out being a liablity.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

One more thought, because this kind of thing annoys me. It is inarguable that the greatest "team-builder" in the history of pro sports is Red Auerbach. I don't see how you could argue otherwise. He dominated in the 50s, 60s, won two titles in the 70s, and dominated the 80s. He probably would have domianted the 90s as well if he didn't have two potential all-time greats, you know, die.

And how did he do this? By acquiring really really good basketball players and turning them into "Core Celtics." He did not acquire "Core Celtics."

These are the players Auerbach acquired over his career. I don't count Bob Cousy, because Cousy was there when Red arrived. And Red actually didn't like Cousy very much at first. He thought he was all flash no substance. Of course, Cousy now has roads and bridges named after him in Boston. He became a "Core Celtic."

Bill Russell - a surly, difficult player who absolutely hated practice. Auerbach has told dozens of stories that revolve around the fact that Russell did not want to practice. He also didn't like to follow any rules or listen to coaches. In fact, the reason he became player-coach after Red retired is because Red knew that no one else could coach him. He is the most important "Core Celtic" in history.

Sam Jones - a player Red drafted without ever having seen play.

Tom Heinsohn - a lunatic who smoked at halftime. He's been with the team 60 years and swears on the radio now.

John Havlicek - actually, Hondo may have been the most perfect player in NBA history. But it should be noted that he actually tried to play for the Cleveland Browns at one point. So, maybe, he didn't feel totally "honored" to be a Celtic.

Dave Cowens - Cowens may actually been insane in retrospect. Anyone who wins two titles and then decides to take some time off to drive a cab is a little odd, wouldn't you say?

(I actually know next to nothing about Paul Silas and JoJo White. But they played in the NBA during the 70s so God only knows what kind of madness they were into).

Kermit Washington - actually never won anything in Boston. But the fact remains that Red acquired him AFTER he punched and nearly killed Rudy T. Why? Because he was a good player and Red knew him personally. And he did play his ass off for him in '78.

Larry Bird - Bird was not exactly a safe pick in '79. First of all, he wasn't going to play for a year. He thought so much of the Celtic mystique that he chose to stay in Terre Haute. Secondly, he was a slow white guy who demanded the biggest rookie contract in NBA history and sent his pit bull of an agent after it. It would have been very easy for Larry to never play in Boston and simply re-enter the draft. In fact, it very nearly happened. Thirdly, he crapped out at Indiana because he could not handle the "big city" of Bloomington; Larry in Boston was a tad risky. He was no "sure thing," but he became a "core Celtic."

Robert Parish - a surly, marijuana-smoking wife beater who nearly was flushed out of the league in the 70s. He was an add-in basically in the McHale-Joe Barry Carrol deal. He only played something like 9000 games in Boston.

Dennis Johnson - possibly the least-liked, least-coachable player in the NBA in the early 80s. Came to Boston and became Larry Bird's all-time favorite teammate.

[MRMADD]

And how did he do this? By acquiring really really good basketball players and turning them into "Core Celtics." He did not acquire "Core Celtics.".

So you're saying coaching trumps talent too?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

How long have you been a Redskins fan?

Here's a little history lesson for you: during the strike year, Joe Gibbs took a bunch of scab players and, in their final game, beat the Cowboys regulars in Dallas. Talent trumps heart? NEVER.

I can cite a hundred examples of brilliantly talented players who can't win. Take Jeff George, for example. He was a great football talent. Probably one of the best arms in football history. And a lousy football player because he had no concept of team play. Tom Brady has nowhere near the physical talents that Jeff George had. Would you take George over Brady?

Things like coaching, teamwork, desire, discipline, hard work, and leadership matter a great deal in football. More so than pure talent. I'd give you Jeff George and TO and I'll take Tom Brady and Jerry Rice (both of them were viewed as lacking the physical skills to play at this level). I'll beat you every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Remember, we won a Superbowl with a quarterback that no one wanted -- Doug Williams -- over the best quarterback in football -- John Elway. And we did it through the air. Did talent win? Or heart?

I can't believe this "talent trumps heart" nonsense is coming from a supposed Skins fan. History proves otherwise.

Talent is more important than heart. A team of 9 Alex Rodriguezes would beat a team of 9 David Ecksteins 95 times out of 100.

But, I have news for you: Jerry Rice and Tom Brady are insanely talented football players. Brady is a better QB than George in every area other than arm strength probably. Jerry Rice is probably one of the most perfect athletic machines to ever play pro football. He simply ran a 40 time once about .1 of second slower than people who care about the 40 would like. (And don't get me started on the fact that every 40 time in the NFL is bogus anyway).

And Doug Williams did not, like, indian-wrestle John Elway to win the Super Bowl. He was on a team filled with All-Pros and potential Hall of Famers. The Broncos had Ricky Nattiel in a prominent role. Williams was a pretty good QB who played a few excellent games in 1987.

Football is a team sport. You need lots of good players in order to win games. And "heart" - whatever that is - is nice too.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

So you're saying coaching trumps talent too?

No, talent trumps everything. Do you honestly believe that talent is not the most important thing for a pro athlete to have? Are you an 8-year old with a particularly bombastic Little League coach?

Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Donovan McNabb are excellent QBs. Why? Because they have a lot of talent.

Going back to an earlier post. How can anyone even make the argument that Terrell Owens lacks "heart" when he pulled a Jack Youngblood and played a game on a broken leg. Owens' problem is not talent or heart. His problem is that he is quite possibly mentally ill.

If I had to rate the factors that matter in the NFL, I would say:

1. Talent - 55 percent

2. Coaching - 25 percent

3. Luck (Injuries) - 15 percent

4. Heart - 5 percent

[Arsenic]

Core Redskins SHOULD be good players that we DRAFT or sign as rookie FA's that bust their asses to make and start on the team. Like in 1981 when the team got about 10 starter ROOKIES in the same year. Most of those guys started for a decade or more.

Pierce and Smoot prove that even "CORE REDSKINS" run off when money calls. So maybe the term is obsolete. Or maybe players are only "CORE REDSKINS" as long as they take the low-ball home team contract offer. That makes Betts the only "CORE REDSKINS" for as long as I can remember.

Many Redskins, if not close to all, have restructured their contracts to help the team aquire additional talent.

"god damn bo, everyone knows that" -waterboy

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Many Redskins, if not close to all, have restructured their contracts to help the team aquire additional talent.

"god damn bo, everyone knows that" -waterboy

I have never understood why players are applauded for re-structuring. Probably because people confuse re-restructuring with pay-cut.

In most re-structures, the player has salary converted into bonus money. Bonus money is better because you get it now as opposed to later. Chris Samuels has - by my count - received 125 roster bonuses worth $1.1 Billion in his Redskins career. He counts approximately $750 million against the 2024 cap as a result.

Mark Brunell did not restructure. His choices were 1) get cut and try the open market or 2) get cut and sign a more reasonable contract here. There was no choice 3 for him.

Springs was asked to take a pay-cut. Springs is not an idiot so he declined.

[redskins2redskins]

It would have to be a player who:

- sincerely feels honored to wear burgundy & gold

- understands the proud tradition of this franchise

- has upstanding character and refuses to embarrass the team and the city

- has "football" smarts and is a student of the game

- gives his all for his team and his teammates, never taking a play off, even in practice

- is reliable, dependable, and takes responsibility for his performance

- feels it's truly a priviledge to play this game

These about sum it up.....although I would add that I think a player could make A mistake in his personal life or even on the field and still be a CORE Redskin....

And then there are alot of good football players with the skill and talent to play the game,who carry ALOT of baggage.......they just don't make good TEAM players,most teams have had a few of those at some point.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Let me get this straight. The criteria for "Core Redskin" does not include "being a good football player."

So...D Green is apparently not a "Core Redskin" because he was arguably the sickest athlete in the NFL for about 20 years. He just had too much natural talent. The only way he could be a "Core Redskin" is if he had walked with a limp or something.

[redskins2redskins]

Let me get this straight. The criteria for "Core Redskin" does not include "being a good football player."

So...D Green is apparently not a "Core Redskin" because he was arguably the sickest athlete in the NFL for about 20 years. He just had too much natural talent. The only way he could be a "Core Redskin" is if he had walked with a limp or something.

Of course it includes being a good football player......:doh: that's not what I meant.

I'm just saying it's important to have those other things also.

The way I would have ranked the 4 things would have been

Skill,character and smarts a tie... then toughness.

I liked the way that person summed everything up thou,and skill made his list....when he said .....a student of football......or at least that's the way I took it.

I don't think anyone here believes that skill is totally unimportant.

Does anyone get what I'm saying???

[Dan T.]

One more thought' date=' because this kind of thing annoys me. It is inarguable that the greatest "team-builder" in the history of pro sports is Red Auerbach. I don't see how you could argue otherwise. He dominated in the 50s, 60s, won two titles in the 70s, and dominated the 80s. He probably would have domianted the 90s as well if he didn't have two potential all-time greats, you know, die.

And how did he do this? By acquiring really really good basketball players and turning them into "Core Celtics." He did not acquire "Core Celtics."

These are the players Auerbach acquired over his career. I don't count Bob Cousy, because Cousy was there when Red arrived. And Red actually didn't like Cousy very much at first. He thought he was all flash no substance. Of course, Cousy now has roads and bridges named after him in Boston. He became a "Core Celtic."

Bill Russell - a surly, difficult player who absolutely hated practice. Auerbach has told dozens of stories that revolve around the fact that Russell did not want to practice. He also didn't like to follow any rules or listen to coaches. In fact, the reason he became player-coach after Red retired is because Red knew that no one else could coach him. He is the most important "Core Celtic" in history.

Sam Jones - a player Red drafted without ever having seen play.

Tom Heinsohn - a lunatic who smoked at halftime. He's been with the team 60 years and swears on the radio now.

John Havlicek - actually, Hondo may have been the most perfect player in NBA history. But it should be noted that he actually tried to play for the Cleveland Browns at one point. So, maybe, he didn't feel totally "honored" to be a Celtic.

Dave Cowens - Cowens may actually been insane in retrospect. Anyone who wins two titles and then decides to take some time off to drive a cab is a little odd, wouldn't you say?

(I actually know next to nothing about Paul Silas and JoJo White. But they played in the NBA during the 70s so God only knows what kind of madness they were into).

Kermit Washington - actually never won anything in Boston. But the fact remains that Red acquired him AFTER he punched and nearly killed Rudy T. Why? Because he was a good player and Red knew him personally. And he did play his ass off for him in '78.

Larry Bird - Bird was not exactly a safe pick in '79. First of all, he wasn't going to play for a year. He thought so much of the Celtic mystique that he chose to stay in Terre Haute. Secondly, he was a slow white guy who demanded the biggest rookie contract in NBA history and sent his pit bull of an agent after it. It would have been very easy for Larry to never play in Boston and simply re-enter the draft. In fact, it very nearly happened. Thirdly, he crapped out at Indiana because he could not handle the "big city" of Bloomington; Larry in Boston was a tad risky. He was no "sure thing," but he became a "core Celtic."

Robert Parish - a surly, marijuana-smoking wife beater who nearly was flushed out of the league in the 70s. He was an add-in basically in the McHale-Joe Barry Carrol deal. He only played something like 9000 games in Boston.

Dennis Johnson - possibly the least-liked, least-coachable player in the NBA in the early 80s. Came to Boston and became Larry Bird's all-time favorite teammate.[/quote']

:rotflmao: They should hire you to write the history section of the 2008 Celtics' Press Guide.

And, BTW, point taken.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. By this definition' date=' we should only draft players from the 703 and 301 area codes. Because I have no idea why Chris Cooley should feel any more honored to be a Redskin then, say, a Bronco.[/quote']

As a player, I would feel far more honored to wear the Skins colors than the Cardinals colors. So what it means is someone who's proud to represent the team, the city, and it's long history. Viewing the Skins no differently than you'd view the Texans is NOT a good thing for ANY player to have. Same thing with the Steelers, the Packers, the Bears...I'd be more proud to wear their uniforms than the Texans or the Bucs, based solely on franchise history alone.

Because winning here is important, not like those towns that honor losers like Green Bay and Pittsburgh and Dallas.

Huh? Doesn't even begin to make sense or address what I said.

Unless you happen to be a really good running back, in which case it is perfectly cool to have a stripper pole in your home.

I actually agree that this is important because if you can't get players on the field, they are worthless to you. I just find it amazing that fans actually think that most teams don't care about these things.

Where does it say anywhere that the qualities of a "core Redskin" are NOT held with the same importance by other teams? Why argue topics that aren't even being debated or brought up?

Knowing how to play football is important to a football player.

You don't understand what "student of the game" means, obviously. It's not simply knowing how to play football. There are fans who have never played football at any organized level who are better students of the game than many NFL players. You lost a ****load of credibility there.

I would have to guess that every player in history has occasionally taken a play off. This sounds like something a pee-wee football coach thinks is extremely important but probably isn't.

If your only response is to take the comment 1,000% literally in order to dismiss it, then you're indirectly proving my point to be correct. Anyone who didn't already have an agenda to ridicule the concept of "core Redskin" understood what I meant. YOU understood what I meant. Your response does little more than display some rather weak debating skills.

I think that is in the description of every job I have ever applied for.

Might be in the job description, but ask any employer anywhere how many workers actually live up to it.

Do a lot of players really consider it a burden? Aside from maybe Terrell Owens.

No, many consider it a birthright, not a priviledge.

[Mania]

Players that played in the 80's and early 90's for Joe Gibbs.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Let me get this straight. The criteria for "Core Redskin" does not include "being a good football player."

So...D Green is apparently not a "Core Redskin" because he was arguably the sickest athlete in the NFL for about 20 years. He just had too much natural talent. The only way he could be a "Core Redskin" is if he had walked with a limp or something.

Your logic is ridiculously out of whack here...

Saying a "core Redskins" does not have to be a good football player is NOT the same as saying good football players can not be "core Redskins". That's something you'd learn in the first class of Logic 101.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

No' date=' talent trumps everything. Do you honestly believe that talent is not the most important thing for a pro athlete to have? Are you an 8-year old with a particularly bombastic Little League coach?[/quote']

Randy Moss may have more talent than Santana Moss...

Santana Moss has more desire, drive, character, maturity and determination than Randy Moss.

If Randy Moss had all those qualities right now, he'd be dominating the NFL like he's never dominated before. He would be insane.

Talent alone will only get you about half the way there, IF you're lucky enough to be surrounded by other talented teammates. Heart, drive, and determination will maximize your talent and even bring out talent you didn't realize you had. Only in Madden does talent alone trump everything else.

[illone]

Very interesting. Would you rate them in that order? And how would John Riggins or Dexter Manley qualify on that list? What happens to Sean Taylor?

You have to know what Joe's definition of character is before commenting on it.

So, why don't you post what your definition is, and what you consider Joe's might be. Obviously there is a disconnect there. Big surprise:rolleyes:

To me, character as a football player is much more scritinuzed than you, or me. Players are humans, too, and make mistakes just like you and I do. Drinking and partying off the field (Riggins and Manley) has nothing to do with playing hard and sticking up for the football team or showing up to work on time. Practicing all week counts, too. Is Taylor any less of a character guy because of what happened off the field? From what I can tell Taylor has never missed practice, and never missed a game. He made one mistake, and since then hasn't even made a headline except for a gruesome hit in the Pro Bowl.

Point is, everyone makes mistakes. It's making a habit of them that becomes a character issue. These are two seperate issues, and I think you need to seperate the two before you claim a player might have a character issue.

That said, Riggins and Manley can't be categorized as character issues simply because they made mistakes, or partied hard when not at work.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Randy Moss may have more talent than Santana Moss...

Santana Moss has more desire, drive, character, maturity and determination than Randy Moss.

If Randy Moss had all those qualities right now, he'd be dominating the NFL like he's never dominated before. He would be insane.

Talent alone will only get you about half the way there, IF you're lucky enough to be surrounded by other talented teammates. Heart, drive, and determination will maximize your talent and even bring out talent you didn't realize you had. Only in Madden does talent alone trump everything else.

I think Randy Moss' biggest issue right now is simply that he has played pro football for ten years. I think his body has broken down, and he's simply not the kind of player who is going to get by on "grit."

And, for the record, if you could give me the best five years of Randy's career with all his nonsense versus the best five of Santana's, with all his "desire and maturity," I would take Randy every day. People that say otherwise are idiots like Mark Schlereth.