NFC: Who's Calling the Shots for Each Team?

[Taylor 36]

Picking coaches to relieve him of any duties, yes. Coaching anything, no.

I think it is clear who initiated the trade for Briggs. Who started it, who picked out EXACTLY what we would be willing to trade for him, and who pressed the situation.

The....hey, let's run it by Joe comment was simply lip service out of respect. Notice how after they "ran it by Joe" none of the details of the offer changed? If Gibbs were making the personnel decisions, Snyder wouldn't have had the cahones to go about trying to get Briggs in the manner that he did. He made it clear that Briggs was who he wanted, what he as the owner was going to give up for him, and force fed it to Joe.

The title "Head Coach" in this situation is absurd. He isn't coaching anything. "Head Coach Picker" might be more apt.

:logo:

Take a look at most NFL teams. Most have a HC that makes final calls on the field (go for it on fourth, try the long FG, throw the challenge flag, etc.) while their OC and DC make all of the play calls during the games. How is that any different from our current situation, except that it has been reported here months ago that Gibbs actually does call plays in certain situations. Hell, in Dallas, Jerruh calls the plays and makes all the game day decisions too. Mr. I'll walk the side lines.:doh:

[Art]

Technically, all owners make the "final call" on player moves... because they own the business. I see nothing wrong with Mr. Snyder having authority to "make the final call" on the team that he owns.

No. No one does. Some have just twisted that reality into an untidy knot of garbage they can't seem to get themselves away from.

[Ernie5]

What? But... but... all the homers promised us that Danny just negotiates contracts! Must be those damn media liars and haters again...

So, this thing says that Snyder makes all the final decisions and it's true? Just because it fits in with your love of hate doesn't make it true. Everything I've read & heard up to this point has made it perfectly clear that Gibbs is the final word & that Snyder, like JKC before him, plays a role, has a powerful voice, writes the checks, is the final word on most non-coaching/personnel decisions, but that this is Joe Gibbs' football team. It isn't complicated & it's pretty dang clear.

There is also this bizarre assumption that because of the team's record under Snyder's ownership is lame, (1) the front office is a bunch of boozing idiots and (2) Snyder transformed what was a winning organization into clown college. Neither conclusion follows. On the latter, the Skins' number of wins since Snyder purchased the team 8 years ago is exactly the same as the 8 years that preceded it. On the former, decent, good & able front offices lose, too. Throughout the 90s, the Rams were considered, under Georgia Frontiere (although easy target), an incompetant organization that didn't draft well & made poor personnel decisions. Did they all of a sudden get brilliant when Dick Vermeil became head coach? Did the Titans' well-respected front office of the late 90s, early 00s become morons?

We've made a number of good decisions and bad decisions over the years -- like most teams & I don't always agree with the going philosophy, which includes Gibbs' lifelong despair of trusting rookies. I think ultimately it's fair to praise and criticize Gibbs, Williams, Cerrato, Snyder when it's warranted. Problem is: Snyder has a target on his back and it's so much more satisfying blaming all of the world's ills on one scapegoat than it is to recognize the balance of events and personalities that lead to success or failure.

[Loxley]

There are quite a few teams in this league that at one time or another have had their O/D coordinators doing the play calling (iirc Gibbs had GW do it like ALL the time he has been back here). That doesnt mean the coach is not coaching. How do you know he didnt take a look at things in the FO and think "OMG Vinny what the F are you doing" quietly to himself and install himself in there to try to limit the problems.

For all we know he might be thinking this guy is going to kill MY team and so hes taken on the extra responsibility just to get hated on by a few folks here. I think some of you guys might want to try to running your own business some time and see how it feels to be at the top and yet place ALL your trust into someone else with your money. Its hard to do even with small amounts. Now multiply that by a couple of million times and you see why Snyder has SOME input into his team, they are after all HIS team.

[Hooper]

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Gibbs calls the final shots, but as proven by the Briggs deal, where Glazer witnessed and reported on Snyder trying to make a trade, Snyder is still heavily involved in football matters.

Can't blame the guy. As I've said before, if I owned the Skins, I'd be playing qb.

[Art]

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Gibbs calls the final shots, but as proven by the Briggs deal, where Glazer witnessed and reported on Snyder trying to make a trade, Snyder is still heavily involved in football matters.

Can't blame the guy. As I've said before, if I owned the Skins, I'd be playing qb.

If anything, Hooper, the Briggs deal shows Gibbs' control as he directly reported the escalation process for prospective trades within the organization (i.e. going to Gibbs) but, beyond that, there are elements of that story you don't know and I don't know fully. The thing you probably do know and I certainly do know is there was more to that story than meets the eye. Much of what the Skins -- as all teams -- do this time of year is to deflect or accomplish something down the road.

Snyder is involved in football matters as he makes the big deals himself. That's the area he deserves his greatest praise. He's asked to deliver players the coaching staff and personnel people want, and he always gets those guys by finding a way to make it happen. They aren't always wise decisions, but, more often than not, the last three years, the player choices have been.

[monkforhall]

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Gibbs calls the final shots, but as proven by the Briggs deal, where Glazer witnessed and reported on Snyder trying to make a trade, Snyder is still heavily involved in football matters.

Can't blame the guy. As I've said before, if I owned the Skins, I'd be playing qb.

I agree with that. Only Snyder, Gibbs, and Cerrato, and maybe a couple others, really can know how decisions are made or how it works. I it's very possible that Dan makes more decisions then he wants known to the public. So they tell the media, Art or whoever, what they want us to think. If Joe Gibbs personally told me he makes all the decisions, I would not believe him . Because I think he would protect Dan on that.

[Art]

I agree with that. Only Snyder, Gibbs, and Cerrato, and maybe a couple others, really can know how decisions are made or how it works. I it's very possible that Dan makes more decisions then he wants known to the public. So they tell the media, Art or whoever, what they want us to think. If Joe Gibbs personally told me he makes all the decisions, I would not believe him . Because I think he would protect Dan on that.

At least your honest.

"I won't listen to the truth because I don't want to."

I can respect that open nature because at least everyone knows you're simply unwilling to be at all reasonable on this issue. At least you don't try to deny the consistent message exists and the layout is well known as some have tortured themselves into trying.

[monkforhall]

At least your honest.

"I won't listen to the truth because I don't want to."

I can respect that open nature because at least everyone knows you're simply unwilling to be at all reasonable on this issue. At least you don't try to deny the consistent message exists and the layout is well known as some have tortured themselves into trying.

Art it's not that I don't listen to it. It's that I take what I hear from the Skins with a grain of salt. It very well maybe the truth. And I really, really, wish it was the truth. I just believe that it works differently then anyone knows.

[Hooper]

If anything, Hooper, the Briggs deal shows Gibbs' control as he directly reported the escalation process for prospective trades within the organization (i.e. going to Gibbs) but, beyond that, there are elements of that story you don't know and I don't know fully. The thing you probably do know and I certainly do know is there was more to that story than meets the eye. Much of what the Skins -- as all teams -- do this time of year is to deflect or accomplish something down the road.

Snyder is involved in football matters as he makes the big deals himself. That's the area he deserves his greatest praise. He's asked to deliver players the coaching staff and personnel people want, and he always gets those guys by finding a way to make it happen. They aren't always wise decisions, but, more often than not, the last three years, the player choices have been.

I agree -- to a point. If you take Glazer at his word, and Snyder never denied it I believe, he witnessed Snyder making the offer to the bears via Rosenhaus and THEN Gibbs was brought in to discuss. Now Gibbs could then still veto the deal of course, but I was under the impression that Danny had nothing to do with football matters anymore -- outside of the financial aspects. The Briggs story clearly disproves this.

[Ernie5]

it's very possible that Dan makes more decisions then he wants known to the public.

This is beginning to morph into Conspiracy Central now. First, why would Snyder, who owns the team and isn't accountable to anyone, want to hide that he makes decisions? Second, why would Gibbs go along with such a charade? What is his motivation? He's a Hall of Fame head coach who knows well that he's betting his own reputation and legacy on what happens during this 5-year contract; why on earth would he defer to a 42-year old non-football guy to make personnel and football decisions and then say "It was all me!!!"

That point-of-view really does show an open disregard -- if not hostility -- to plain facts, as well as plain logic. In other words, Snyder makes the calls because you want him to (so you can attack). Good work.

[Ernie5]

I don't believe Glazer said he witnessed Snyder making an offer to Rosenhaus. I believe he said he was aware that Rosenhaus pitched an offer to Snyder and Snyder said he'd have to talk to Gibbs about it. No one says Synder "has nothing to do with football matters" but that he's not the final word -- big difference. If you load the deck that way, you can disprove pretty much anything.

[TheLongshot]

Certainly, the view that the buck stops with Snyder as a bit of validity. In the end, it is Snyder who pays the bills, so ultimately, everything would need his approval.

At the same time, tho, can you really name an instance where Gibbs didn't get what he wanted? Can you name an instance where Snyder signed a guy that Gibbs didn't want?

While it is the perogative of the owner to have final say, it seems to be that his final say is that Gibbs gets whatever he asks for.

Jason

[monkforhall]

it's very possible that Dan makes more decisions then he wants known to the public.

This is beginning to morph into Conspiracy Central now. First, why would Snyder, who owns the team and isn't accountable to anyone, want to hide that he makes decisions? Second, why would Gibbs go along with such a charade? What is his motivation? He's a Hall of Fame head coach who knows well that he's betting his own reputation and legacy on what happens during this 5-year contract; why on earth would he defer to a 42-year old non-football guy to make personnel and football decisions and then say "It was all me!!!"

That point-of-view really does show an open disregard -- if not hostility -- to plain facts, as well as plain logic. In other words, Snyder makes the calls because you want him to (so you can attack). Good work.

Snyder has taken a lot of critism in the past for being too involved in Football decisions. Gibbs has always told everyone to put all the blame on him. That is the kind of great guy he is. He shields his boss from any critisism, by saying he makes all the decisions and Dan just signs the checks. He's just being Gibbs. You don't think it's possible that Snyder makes more decisions then he wants people to know about?

[Ernie5]

You don't think it's possible that Snyder makes more decisions then he wants people to know about?

No, not really.

I think that scenario makes sense in the context of a message board. I don't believe such paranoia exists at Redskin Park b/c there's no business rationale or football rationale for creating such an illusion. Synder may or may not care what the national media says about him, but to use a Hall of Fame coach as a shield? I think Snyder, like most of us, has bigger fish to fry (like making money) and that Gibbs went into this with the assurance that the decisions were his. He quarrelled often with Beathard and to some extent Casserly and, I think, wanted to know that the personnel desires and decisions of his coaching staff would be given A#1 priority.

[monkforhall]

You don't think it's possible that Snyder makes more decisions then he wants people to know about?

No, not really.

I think that scenario makes sense in the context of a message board. I don't believe such paranoia exists at Redskin Park b/c there's no business rationale or football rationale for creating such an illusion. Synder may or may not care what the national media says about him, but to use a Hall of Fame coach as a shield? I think Snyder, like most of us, has bigger fish to fry (like making money) and that Gibbs went into this with the assurance that the decisions were his. He quarrelled often with Beathard and to some extent Casserly and, I think, wanted to know that the personnel desires and decisions of his coaching staff would be given A#1 priority.

Gibbs never tells the whole truth. When we win, or are winning, he gives all the credit to ownership, players, d coordinators. He deflects all credit to others. We know better. He did a lot. When we are losing, he does the exact opposite, that is when he excepts full blame for every single thing. Every mistake. I like that about him. But we know it's not entirely true. Somewhere in the middle.

[BKSkinsFan]

Unless we are in the room while the decisions are made, nobody here honestly without question knows exactly how everything goes down.

We know the setup, some may think that that's a smokescreen and that Danny is still running things. I tend to believe he maybe, just may be willing to let Coach Gibbs, someone that he personally looks up to, do what he does best and make the football decisions for this team. Sure haters can say that was Beathard doing it in the past, but do you think that Gibbs wasn't talking to Bobby then telling him what he wanted? I know people here love to hate on us just as much as the media does, but I truly don't think Snyder goes out of his way to try to acquire players behind Gibbs' back. I see it more along the lines of Coach telling Danny what he wants, and Danny working his butt off trying to deliver.

Sure not all of our acquisitions are great ones, but that happens with every team. It's just much more amplified with us due to some of the huge misses we've had in the past. AA didn't help our case any but we are getting better with it. I truly do believe the team has gotten better, and if you don't see any improvement in the way we now over how we played under Norv and Spurrier, I guess you're just turning off your TV after you don't see us scoring a TD within 5 minutes.

This team will always be criticized over every decision made, even when we do start winning. It's just how people are, and this message board along with the media proves it.

[Ernie5]

That Gibbs deflects praise and accepts blame is absolutely true, but that's different than outright lying and saying, in effect, "Dan Snyder gives me the resources to do what I want to do." It also doesn't explain what Snyder or Gibbs have to gain by playing such a charade. It doesn't make any sense.

And remember: I'm not saying that Snyder has nothing to do with any football decisions; he'd be crazy not to. All I'm saying is that he brought in a football guy to make the ultimate football decisions. And Beathard wasn't really as in control as some would have you believe: Gibbs ran his arse outta town when he got sick of arguing with him. Gibbs ran the routine.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I guess the real issue is that I - and apparently many others - simply stopped believing any statement out of Redskins Park a long time ago.

I honestly don't know how the decision-making process works. I think I mostly choose to believe that Snyder has a big say and still has a big say because it's the only way everything that has happened since '99 makes sense.

[Ernie5]

Gibbs' pressers are exactly the same as they were in the 80s, except that he giggles more now. What has happened since 1999 that hasn't been happening since 1993?

[monkforhall]

Gibbs' pressers are exactly the same as they were in the 80s, except that he giggles more now. What has happened since 1999 that hasn't been happening since 1993?

Winning is different. Some people blame that on Dan and some on Joe. For me, I don't even have an opinion on who is at fault. Cause I know i'll never know the whole truth. I do think Dan and Joe together can get it done. I expect a great season.

[Art]

I guess the real issue is that I - and apparently many others - simply stopped believing any statement out of Redskins Park a long time ago.

I honestly don't know how the decision-making process works. I think I mostly choose to believe that Snyder has a big say and still has a big say because it's the only way everything that has happened since '99 makes sense.

At least I now better understand Oliver Stone's audience.

[barry wilburn]

That point-of-view really does show an open disregard -- if not hostility -- to plain facts, as well as plain logic. In other words, Snyder makes the calls because you want him to (so you can attack). Good work.

Can you site a fact that proves Gibbs is the sole maker of football decisions? I can't find anything out of his mouth or Snyder's that would support that. Everything I have read indicates that Snyder is heavily involved and holds final say. Also, Gibbs has admitted on a number of occasions that Snyder negotiates with player agents and approves contracts. In the era of the salary cap, this area is what matters the most.

[bubba9497]

Yeah, the damn, dirty media is out to get Washington and coach Gibbs again :laugh:

Seriously, stop acting like you know how the Redskins front office operates. Daniel Snyder has as much say as Jerruh in personel decisions, no matter how hard you deny it.

for anyone with a brain. who pays attentions... the chain of command is quite obvious in DC, Gibbs runs the show... except when it's time to write checks

and yes I have contacts with inside information

his name is Art. you may have heard of him

BTW if anyone read this same article last year.. it is almost word for word the same drival as they wrote last year. Wrong then, wrong now :laugh:

[SkinFanRoanoke]

I believe that Joe would not have stuck around this long if Snyder is as involved as most people seem to think he is, I don't believe that Joe would simply coach a roster filled by Snyder and Vinny with no say so reguarding personnel. That being said Snyder certainly must have a voice in personnel, but to the weight that voice carries will probably stay between the two. Again i don't believe if Snyders' hand was as heavy as alot of people speculate that Gibbs would put up with it.

However I also believe, reguardless of however arrogant Snyder may be, that he is accountable to the fans to some extent. Alot of the younger fans are not as loyal to the team as the fans of the 80's, (see rest of message board) and eventually the consequences of too many more losing seasons will be financial, something Snyder understands. Its hard to imagine if Gibbs second tenure is a failure and the skins go into the next decade as a losing franchise that FedEx will continue to draw the crowds it does now, even after 15 years fo losing we still have better attendance than most of the NFL but i don't see that trend continuing if we continue to lose.