NFC: Who's Calling the Shots for Each Team?

[PCS]

Can you site a fact that proves Gibbs is the sole maker of football decisions? I can't find anything out of his mouth or Snyder's that would support that. Everything I have read indicates that Snyder is heavily involved and holds final say. Also, Gibbs has admitted on a number of occasions that Snyder negotiates with player agents and approves contracts. In the era of the salary cap, this area is what matters the most.

I'll quote this but direct it to others with similar thoughts or statements. First of all, Coach Gibbs has said many time that in essence the buck stops with him. Art has already stated what he has been told by those with the team about the front office set up. That right there is much more than most anything you have read in the past from most media outlets because it comes from the Redskins themselves. If you don't believe that head to the ES Chats Archives. You'll find direct quotes from several coaches,(including Coach Gibbs), Cerrato, and even Dan Snyder himself that will tell you how things work in the front office. For example.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114733

From ES Staff

Two questions we’ve asked Vinny Cerrato and Karl Swanson in previous chats we’d like to ask you as well. First, why no general manager?

Quote:

Dan Snyder

Many teams in the NFL are structured similar to us, with the head coach having the full authority to make the personnel decisions in every single area. Its Coach Gibbs team and I think he's doing an unbelievable job on the roster, building the roster and building the depth. It's a shame because people look purely at our 6-10 record last year and they don't look at our off-season acquisitions last year and this year. If you do, I think you can see quite clearly that we are building a solid team very quickly.

From ES Staff

Can you describe as precisely as you can your role in personnel decisions?

Quote:

Dan Snyder

My role is to sign the check, pay whatever is required for players to end up on the best side of getting a deal done for the sake of the organization.

----------------------------

[bubba9497]

PCS now you know logic isn't a valid argument with some of these posters :laugh:

[PCS]

PCS now you know logic isn't a valid argument with some of these posters :laugh:

:laugh: Whoops. Damn. Sorry bubba. I forgot. Silly me. Won't let that happen again.

[bubba9497]

:laugh: Whoops. Damn. Sorry bubba. I forgot. Silly me. Won't let that happen again.

that's better

I mean, Snyder has stated Gibbs in charge, Gibbs has said he was in charge, Vinny has said Gibbs in charge, many reports have stated Gibs was the boss, or was the one pulling the strings...........

why wouldn't anyone believe some guy at ESPN, who has never even talked to anyone in the Redskins organization, much less been at Redskin Park and done any real research?

[#1AZRedskinfan]

I knew you'd have fun with that :laugh:

i planned on having more fun before the quick edit.

Thanks for the visual. :puke:

[isle-hawg]

I agree -- to a point. If you take Glazer at his word, and Snyder never denied it I believe, he witnessed Snyder making the offer to the bears via Rosenhaus and THEN Gibbs was brought in to discuss. Now Gibbs could then still veto the deal of course, but I was under the impression that Danny had nothing to do with football matters anymore -- outside of the financial aspects. The Briggs story clearly disproves this.

Not necessarily, is it inconceivable for many to consider that Gibbs and Snyder actually talk to each other? If they do is it possible during conversation Gibbs actually shares with the owner his current draft board including potential trades up and down and for vets (especially disgruntled franchised Pro-Bowl players)? It doesn't seem too far of a stretch to me since I share with co-workers (most of which not even skins fans) potential trades I would and would not want the skins to make during the offseason. Why in the world would the team president and owner who pays the bills not at least have similar discussions with each other :whoknows:

Maybe they do which is why DS had the conversation with Rosenhaus in the first place;)

[PCS]

that's better

I mean, Snyder has stated Gibbs in charge, Gibbs has said he was in charge, Vinny has said Gibbs in charge, many reports have stated Gibs was the boss, or was the one pulling the strings...........

why wouldn't anyone believe some guy at ESPN, who has never even talked to anyone in the Redskins organization, much less been at Redskin Park and done any real research?

:laugh: You're right again and I have no idea why anyone wouldn't believe something like the recycled article from ESPN instead of something like..well...... this.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114278

Follow question

ESPN Insider wrote the other day how teams come about their decisions. One of the things written was that pretty much was that Dan and you are the overriding people making decisions, so if Joe Gibbs wanted a player, he'd really have to sell you on it, and if he couldn't sell you on it, you guys would say yes or no. Or does Joe Gibbs have the final say? Or does Dan Snyder have the final say?

Quote:

Vinny Cerrato

That's totally false.

The coach has the final say. We'll go through the whole process. We'll put everybody in an order. Then it will come down to the coach saying this is what I need or this is what I don't need.

Dan takes no say so in the player moves. He gives it all to Coach Gibbs. We all work together to come up with an answer and then the coach makes the final call. Like he says, somebody has to make the final call. He does.

He takes all the information and the thing that he does that's great is we go over it and over it and he asks everybody's opinion and everybody's opinion counts, from the trainers, to the strength coaches, to the scouts, to everybody.

He wants every opinion, every bit of information, then we'll make a good decision and he'll make the final call.

So, the Insider is totally wrong.

[PCS]

I consider this to be a fair descrition of how things have worked for the Skins. But I have faith that Joe will have more input starting with this up coming draft and future drafts.

What is? All of it? The part about the Redskins? What about the part about the Cowboys?

Check out the earlier quotes provided plus this one.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131358

Hi Joe,

During the off season, does the "D" staff get your input on potential FA D-linemen? considering you have to study them for their weakness.

Thanks Joe!!

Joe Bugel

Quote:

That’s a great question. We sure do sit down and compare notes, because, especially Greg Blache, our defensive line coach. He’ll tell me who the best offensive linemen that they had to face all year and vice-versa, we’ll tell them who the best defensive lineman were. But we exchange ideas. That’s one of the big things we do when the season ends. We make up scouting reports on the people that we’ve played against and that’s been very very helpful in the selection of free agents.

[McD5]

that's better

I mean, Snyder has stated Gibbs in charge, Gibbs has said he was in charge, Vinny has said Gibbs in charge, many reports have stated Gibs was the boss, or was the one pulling the strings...........

why wouldn't anyone believe some guy at ESPN, who has never even talked to anyone in the Redskins organization, much less been at Redskin Park and done any real research?

Who was in charge on the Briggs proposal?

[redman]

completely wrong

Yep, a single sentence devoted to Gibbs out of the entire paragraph. Yes, Snyder has final say (doesn't every owner?) but that doesn't require him to be involved throughout the process, does it?

[Jumbo]

[/i]

Thanks for the visual. :puke:

AZ, if you got any kind of puke-inducing visual out of that exchange it's time for rehab or the pscyh ward :laugh:

[Art]

Who was in charge on the Briggs proposal?

As the situation showed and the reporting indicated, Joe Gibbs. Gibbs made the call to the Bears after evaluating the idea with input from the relevant people, which, include the owner who pays the contract, the personnel chief who pulls the evaluations in, the defensive coaches who identify if it's someone they can use and then you make an official offer if all that comes together, though, to be fair, we didn't ACTUALLY make an official offer. We floated a possible idea for the Bears to consider. Had they said, "Yes," we would have said, "Ok, let us look over this and see how it fits." But, that's a different story .

[McD5]

LOL. Right. Snyder made the offer, Snyder chose exactly what we were going to offer, our 6th pick. Then, after doing so, he paid Joe lip service, and said we would run it by him too before signing the papers.

After apparently locating Joe at a Nascar track somewhere in the country, and filling in Joe on what was about to happen, the conditions Snyder offered remained exactly the same. Our 6th for Briggs.

I know in other threads, those that still thought or now still think that Gibbs is making the calls also believed the the trade offer for Gibbs was some posturing. It had to either be just a rumor, or it had to be to help out Drew's client. Certainly Snyder wasn't serious about it. And certainly Snyder doesn't pull the strings. Joe would stop this the second he heard of it. They were completely wrong.

It was real, Snyder picked exactly what we would offer, and he offered it.

:logo:

[MRMADD]

PCS now you know logic isn't a valid argument with some of these posters :laugh:

Logic? You mean blindly, unquestioningly believing anything Vinnie Cerrato or Danny Snyder says is logical?

I don't think you know what "logic" is.

Here's the deal: When Danny Snyder bought the team, he personally micromanaged the personnel decisions -- with disastrous consequences. Are you with me so far? Nod 'yes' if you agree. Good.

When Danny fired Marty, it was so he could get back to micromanaging personnel decisions. When Spurrier asked for a GM, Danny hired back Vinnie Cerrato instead, and the two of them went back to work playing fantasy football. Still with me?

Now, when Gibbs was hired, we were told a different story: that Danny and Vinny would take a back seat, and Joe Gibbs would have full control. We all rejoiced.

But there's a problem with that. It doesn't appear that anything has changed. The team is still throwing away draft picks (think Duckett or McIntosh). They're still chasing big-name free agents (think AA). And they're bringing in players that just don't fit the Gibbs 'character' mold (think Lloyd). And the negotiations with Chicago over Briggs looked just like the bad old days.

So what's really happening? There is the possibility that Joe Gibbs actually thinks just like Danny and Vinny, and he's the one making all the stupid decisions. And then there's the slightly more likely possibility -- and the one supported by the media that all you Snyder-lovers hate -- that Snyder still has his grubby little hands in the cookie jar.

If you look solely at what Vinny and Danny say (and what Joe Gibbs, ever the good soldier, supports), then you're right. But if you look at the teams' actions and their results, it looks suspiciously like you're completely deluded. But believe what you want...

[cphil006]

apparently extremeksins is calling the shots this season...

[McD5]

Logic? You mean blindly, unquestioningly believing anything Vinnie Cerrato or Danny Snyder says is logical?

I don't think you know what "logic" is.

Here's the deal: When Danny Snyder bought the team, he personally micromanaged the personnel decisions -- with disastrous consequences. Are you with me so far? Nod 'yes' if you agree. Good.

When Danny fired Marty, it was so he could get back to micromanaging personnel decisions. When Spurrier asked for a GM, Danny hired back Vinnie Cerrato instead, and the two of them went back to work playing fantasy football. Still with me?

Now, when Gibbs was hired, we were told a different story: that Danny and Vinny would take a back seat, and Joe Gibbs would have full control. We all rejoiced.

But there's a problem with that. It doesn't appear that anything has changed. The team is still throwing away draft picks (think Duckett or McIntosh). They're still chasing big-name free agents (think AA). And they're bringing in players that just don't fit the Gibbs 'character' mold (think Lloyd). And the negotiations with Chicago over Briggs looked just like the bad old days.

So what's really happening? There is the possibility that Joe Gibbs actually thinks just like Danny and Vinny, and he's the one making all the stupid decisions. And then there's the slightly more likely possibility -- and the one supported by the media that all you Snyder-lovers hate -- that Snyder still has his grubby little hands in the cookie jar.

If you look solely at what Vinny and Danny say (and what Joe Gibbs, ever the good soldier, supports), then you're right. But if you look at the teams' actions and their results, it looks suspiciously like you're completely deluded. But believe what you want...

well said. :applause:

[TheLongshot]

Logic? You mean blindly, unquestioningly believing anything Vinnie Cerrato or Danny Snyder says is logical?

I don't think you know what "logic" is.

I guess in your world, logic is only what you happen to agree with, not with the actual evidence presented.

Here's the deal: When Danny Snyder bought the team, he personally micromanaged the personnel decisions -- with disastrous consequences. Are you with me so far? Nod 'yes' if you agree. Good.

You could argue that, tho you don't have a lot of evidence on who made those decisions. But, I will give you that one without an argument.

When Danny fired Marty, it was so he could get back to micromanaging personnel decisions. When Spurrier asked for a GM, Danny hired back Vinnie Cerrato instead, and the two of them went back to work playing fantasy football. Still with me?

Nope, sorry, you lost me here. It certainly looks like Spurrier made a good many of those decisions, with all the Florida State players that came in. Also pretty obvious that the defensive coaches got the players that they wanted. Marvin Lewis is on record as to wanting Trotter and that he felt that he could turn him into the next Ray Lewis.

The only time Snyder came up in conversation with personnel was as a tiebreaker between Spurrier and Ceratto. I don't see much evidence at all that he was trying to play fantasy football with the team, but to build the team that Spurrier wanted.

But there's a problem with that. It doesn't appear that anything has changed. The team is still throwing away draft picks (think Duckett or McIntosh). They're still chasing big-name free agents (think AA). And they're bringing in players that just don't fit the Gibbs 'character' mold (think Lloyd). And the negotiations with Chicago over Briggs looked just like the bad old days.

So what's really happening? There is the possibility that Joe Gibbs actually thinks just like Danny and Vinny, and he's the one making all the stupid decisions. And then there's the slightly more likely possibility -- and the one supported by the media that all you Snyder-lovers hate -- that Snyder still has his grubby little hands in the cookie jar.

If you look solely at what Vinny and Danny say (and what Joe Gibbs, ever the good soldier, supports), then you're right. But if you look at the teams' actions and their results, it looks suspiciously like you're completely deluded. But believe what you want...

And you can continue to ignore all the good moves that Gibbs has made while he has been here. For example, Arch is the only big name FA who hasn't worked out here with Gibbs in charge. Duckett is the only time which they "threw away" draft picks.

Yes, your first guess was correct. Gibbs has bought into what the Skins do here, that you get good players however you can get them, whether by trade, FA or the draft. Sounds like what a good Team President should do.

So, who is being delusional?

Jason

[McD5]

Nope, sorry, you lost me here. It certainly looks like Spurrier made a good many of those decisions, with all the Florida State players that came in. Also pretty obvious that the defensive coaches got the players that they wanted. Marvin Lewis is on record as to wanting Trotter and that he felt that he could turn him into the next Ray Lewis.

Florida State? Are we watching the same team? Spurrier didn't bring in Florida State players. He coached for, and brought in University of Florida players.

The message you quote from is one of the best I have seen on these forums....but it forgot to mention one more example where Gibbs had little or no input on the personnel decisions--the release of Arch.

Gibbs didn't ask for Arch to be released. Had Gibbs had even one iota of weight on the defensive decisions, first of all, Arch would have played. You don't make someone the highest paid player ever in a position, then let him ride the bench. Gibbs isn't that stupid. Only Williams is. And even though it was obvious regardless of whatever Gibbs tried to say in his pressers, "Arch is an important part of this team, Arch is key for us on special teams," Arch was on his way out of here--regardless of what Gibbs thought or felt.

Snyder and Williams made the decision to dump Arch. Williams made the decision to bench him rather than to adapt to his defensive strengths. And if Arch supposedly sucked, why didn't Williams coach him up? Isn't that what we pay him for? To actually coach someone? It was a disgrace, and clearly showed who was making the decisions.

When it came time to pay his bonus....do you really think Gibbs demanded he be let go? Of course not. That was Snyder stepping in, not wanting to pay him anymore money...and telling him to hit the bricks. It didn't matter if Gibbs liked him on special teams or not--Snyder and Williams made the call.

I would think anyone still delusional enough to believe that Gibbs has any say in this team will finally come to their senses after we make a strong run at signing Calvin Johnson. On draft day, when the camera focuses in on both Gibbs and Snyder sitting next to each other.....and Snyder has a huge smile on his face as they interview them about the decision to trade away next years picks for CJ--hopefully the final few posters living in dreamland will finally wake up. More likely than not, they will then claim that Gibbs pushed for CJ--and that once again, Snyder had nothing to do with it.

Gibbs business card should say "Head Mentor." A Head Coach he is not.

[bubba9497]

Gibbs business card should say "Head Mentor." A Head Coach he is not.

:laugh: what a crock of ****

I like how you make an unsubstaintated assumption, and expect us to take it as fact

The Reason Arch is gone is because Gibbs wanted him gone, when he leaked the info to the press he was out of here, same with Coles, Coles started ****ing... Gibbs got rid of him... end of story. Snyer did the contract work to make the cap space, Gibbs made the deal for Moss.

Briggs is the perfect exanple Gibbs is in charge, If Snyder was making the deals, we would have given Chicago the extra compensation (the FO, MO before Gibbs return)... Gibbs said NO... no trade. It was wisely reported in every major newspaper and websight, that Snyder went TO GIBBS to okay a trade, and the Skins didn't talk to Chicago until Gibbs reasearch a deal.

[TheLongshot]

Florida State? Are we watching the same team? Spurrier didn't bring in Florida State players. He coached for, and brought in University of Florida players.

Sorry, you are right. It is late.

The message you quote from is one of the best I have seen on these forums....but it forgot to mention one more example where Gibbs had little or no input on the personnel decisions--the release of Arch.

Gibbs didn't ask for Arch to be released. Had Gibbs had even one iota of weight on the defensive decisions, first of all, Arch would have played. You don't make someone the highest paid player ever in a position, then let him ride the bench. Gibbs isn't that stupid. Only Williams is. And even though it was obvious regardless of whatever Gibbs tried to say in his pressers, "Arch is an important part of this team, Arch is key for us on special teams," Arch was on his way out of here--regardless of what Gibbs thought or felt.

You don't keep playing a guy who just isn't working for you in what you are trying to do. Williams thought that to fix some of the issues that the defense had, that they needed more of a cover guy back there. Arch is obviously not that type of player, and was benched after giving up a key pass in the Dallas game. Personally, I think it takes a lot of balls to bench a guy you just spent millions on, and pretty much admit to everyone that you made a mistake.

Snyder and Williams made the decision to dump Arch. Williams made the decision to bench him rather than to adapt to his defensive strengths. And if Arch supposedly sucked, why didn't Williams coach him up? Isn't that what we pay him for? To actually coach someone? It was a disgrace, and clearly showed who was making the decisions.

When it came time to pay his bonus....do you really think Gibbs demanded he be let go? Of course not. That was Snyder stepping in, not wanting to pay him anymore money...and telling him to hit the bricks. It didn't matter if Gibbs liked him on special teams or not--Snyder and Williams made the call.

It is pretty well established that if a player wants out that Gibbs will accomodate the player. That happened with Coles, Lavar and Ramsey. How is this any different? Becuase Arch wasn't very public with his dissatisfaction?

No, it is pretty obvious that Arch wanted out, and Gibbs let him out by making a deal with Chicago, which is a team that actually wants him.

I'm still waiting for those who say that Snyder is making the calls to present hard evidence.

Jason

[bubba9497]

Logic? You mean blindly, unquestioningly believing anything Vinnie Cerrato or Danny Snyder says is logical?

I don't think you know what "logic" is.

If you look solely at what Vinny and Danny say (and what Joe Gibbs, ever the good soldier, supports), then you're right. But if you look at the teams' actions and their results, it looks suspiciously like you're completely deluded. But believe what you want...

:rotflmao: yeah you're the logical one, you change facts, and ignore anything that doesn't fit the little picture you want :thumbsup:

Vinny, and Dan didn't deny calling the shots before Gibbs, why suddenly lie about it?

And not only Dan, and Vinny have said Gibbs makes all football desions, Gibbs says it (and anyone who has followed Gibbs knows his hinesty has time and time again been proved) other coaches have said Gibbs was in charge, News reports by actual reporters who have talked with the Skins FO, and been to Redskin Park have reported Gibbs is in charge, other NFL people who have dealt with The Redskins on football matters have said Gibbs is in charge. Giving up a third for Duckett as an insurance back isn't nothing, Gibbs gave two first rounders for Wilbur Marshall, he gave up a first rounder for George Rogers to be a short yardage back. Gibbs has aways felt the player he wanted was worth more than a draft pick maybe.

Snyder drafted Ramsey, yet we traded for Brunell, drafted Campbell, and traded away Ramsey. Hmmmmm yeah Snyder is calling the shots

[bubba9497]

I'm still waiting for those who say that Snyder is making the calls to present hard evidence.

Jason

you'll be waiting a looooooooooonnnnnnggggggg time

[TheLongshot]

you'll be waiting a looooooooooonnnnnnggggggg time

Hell, I'm waiting for some decent circumstantial evidence and they can't even reach that level.

Jason

[McD5]

Hell, I'm waiting for some decent circumstantial evidence and they can't even reach that level.

Jason

If our owner going out before talking to Joe Gibbs, and making a hard offer to trade our first round pick for Briggs doesn't raise questions in your mind--then nothing will. Then after filling Gibbs in, the deal stayed exactly as Snyder had offered it--change first round picks for Briggs.

What other NFL owner would do such a thing? Only Jerry Jones.

Arch getting released is another example. How many times did Gibbs try to convince the fans late in the season that Arch was important to the team? That Arch wasn't going anywhere? That Arch was our special teams captain, and that on defense, we thought of him highly? That whenever the defensive set was appropriate, that Arch of course was going to play?

So either you think he was lying the entire time, you think that he had a sudden change of heart in the offseason, or you yet again, see Snyder continues to call the shots.

So was Gibbs lying? Or was he telling the truth, and Snyder took control?

It isn't brain surgery.

:logo:

[TheLongshot]

If our owner going out before talking to Joe Gibbs, and making a hard offer to trade our first round pick for Briggs doesn't raise questions in your mind--then nothing will. Then after filling Gibbs in, the deal stayed exactly as Snyder had offered it--change first round picks for Briggs.

Snyder never made a hard offer to the Bears. The whole conversation was between him and Rosenhaus. Rosenhaus suggested a trade value for Briggs, and Snyder agreed with him. But, no trade offer was made until Gibbs was consunted. Obviously, Gibbs thought it was a good offer and decided to go with it.

Now, if it was such an awful offer, why didn't the Bears jump all over it?

Arch getting released is another example. How many times did Gibbs try to convince the fans late in the season that Arch was important to the team? That Arch wasn't going anywhere? That Arch was our special teams captain, and that on defense, we thought of him highly? That whenever the defensive set was appropriate, that Arch of course was going to play?

So either you think he was lying the entire time, you think that he had a sudden change of heart in the offseason, or you yet again, see Snyder continues to call the shots.

So was Gibbs lying? Or was he telling the truth, and Snyder took control?

Or was it that they were still having conversations about what to do about Arch, and said such things because Arch was still a member of this team. A deal with Chicago was not nessicarily a slam dunk. In that case, you have to be prepared for all options. Hell, it could have been just posturing to force a trade by Chicago, saying that we were willing to keep him if they didn't trade for him. It also wouldn't surprise me if Arch asked to be traded.

In the end, we are all speculating, because we don't know what the thinking was in the original statement or in the trade. But, there is absolutely no evidence that Danny wanted him traded because he didn't want to pay his bonus.

I mean, if that was true, wouldn't he be asking a similar thing for Lloyd? Yet, Lloyd is still here, despite the fact that he did have a poor season last year.

Jason