*The Official Apologetic Thread To Om*

[CMonster]

John, think about the quality of the individuals you are addressing. Is it really worth it?

Think about everything you've done for this site for the past 5 years.... and then think about the quality of individuals that question your "integrity" or motivation. Get to the heart of the core in figuring what the hell they're arguing about and why... and move on.

These aren't the people you sacrifice for. It's evident the majority gets it... and that's why you continue on. Forget the trash.

Excuse me, sir, but for you to refer to me as "trash" is simply classless and I think you'll be embarassed to find out, way out of line.

Had you read my posts in this thread, you'd see that I have been quite clear in not calling the integrity of the mods into question. I've been very clear about the level of respect I've held for the moderators here and the community that I've seen built from the early days (note my member #). The integrity of the reporting on this site and the integrity of the mods are very different things. When ES makes false claims, it puts its own integrity in question....I didn't do it so don't blame me.

The reality is that in business there is a very blurry line between neogtiations and integrity and the reality is that ES deciced to take money and become a part of the Redskins organization. The WP called that relationship into question today and no one here is saying he's right or wrong. Just assure the folks that there's nothing to it rather than spend so much effort denying that anything happened. This is a community and the most important aspect of a community is trust.

If this is the "not noteworthy", minor semantic nonentity that shouldn't register as you suggest than why are the mods here being so defensive? Calling members of the community "trash" is certainly not becoming of mods who demand an extraordinary level of respect and latitiude. Goodness. All of this because of a reluctance to say what Om basically said anyway, which is, "my bad". As much as we like to portray the mods here as omnipotent and infallable it's ok to have a minor screw up once in a decade.

A mistake was made yesterday. Why has that generated all this hoopla? As long as we (the mods and the rest of the community) acknowledge it and make sure it doesn't happen again, there shouldn't be a problem. As I've said repeatedly in this thread.

[smitty71]

Give me your address. I'll put the next one in a FedEx envelope to ya.

1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Washinton, DC.

LOL! I am glad the humor is always here during the battles.

[JimmiJo]

How? If it's a quote from the player himself, how could you be more inside?

That's all I'm getting at--say what you know to be true (e.g. "It appears from everything we can glean that Smoot will be signed") and avoid saying what you don't know to be true, and you won't be questioned on matters of integrity, because there will be no grounds to do so. And you'll be giving people the kind of inside information they look for when they come here.

I think a mistake was made in this case, and so long as it's recognized and avoided in the future, I can't see why anybody would have a problem with that.

Newshog, come now, let's be sensible.

You can get much more inside information than simply speaking with a player. The player himself may not wish to concede an agreement is in place for a host of reasons - and these reasons may not concern you or I. The player could know he is going to sign, but trying to leverage a better deal. The team and the player could have agreed to give another signed player room to be announced and introduced. The team may be awaiting results from the physical. The team could be making sure their cap numbers are legit before agreeing to the deal. The team could be having to finalize another deal to make it work cap-wise before agreeing to the deal. The player could be making sure his spouse agrees with the deal.

And the thing is, none of the parties are under ANY obligation to share this with you or I. Just as ES staff are under no obligation to share sources with you or I.

I understand that you believe a mistake was made in this. If anything it was a mistake a semantics, not substance. To demand source information as a result is not only unjustified, it is unreasonable.

In terms of integrity, I'll leave that for you to decide. However, in my opinion you are owed nothing in terms of an explaination.

[Tarhog]

When ES makes false claims, it puts its own integrity in question....

The reality is that in business there is a very blurry line between neogtiations and integrity and the reality is that ES deciced to take money and become a part of the Redskins organization.

Calling members of the community "trash" is certainly not becoming of mods who demand an extraordinary level of respect and latitiude.

Since you're so concerned with 'accuracy' and 'integrity', I'll politely point out that we didn't take a cent from the Redskins when we agreed to this deal. Most of us have SPENT money during the past several years, not earned any. So thats patently untrue.

Secondly, no 'mod' said anything to you (other than Om) - I'm not a moderator, nor is Die Hard.

Facts can be fuzzy things, can't they?

[TK]

The integrity of the reporting on this site and the integrity of the mods are very different things. When ES makes false claims, it puts its own integrity in question....I didn't do it so don't blame me.

The reality is that in business there is a very blurry line between neogtiations and integrity and the reality is that ES deciced to take money and become a part of the Redskins organization.

Couple of things here.

1) No one is a reporter. ES isn't a news outlet. It's a message board. Going by your member #, you should know this. That you don't is mindboggling.

2) ES didn't take any money. It was a merger. NONE of us are on Snyder's payroll. That is reality.

3) YOUR false claims that have been shown now calls your integrity into question. And you seem to be lacking.

[praise_gibbs]

I can understand why some are getting POd about how big of a deal the whole thing turned into. It was way too much. A few people, like myself, were commenting on how the thread title could have been more accurate, and some were taking it beyond that and questioning the mods integrity and fairness. And then there was praise_gibbs who was Om's personal webtegrityguard. Personally, I think it would've been a lot more informative to say "Smoot Has Agreed in Principle", or something along those lines, because many took "Signs" to mean it was done and he had no way to back out of it. But that's the last I'll say on it because this is already too much. Amazing how much like a family a web board is - dysfunctionality and all.

:kungfu:

It's about what's right. Not about any person in particular.

[newshog]

Well, there you have it. YOU think it's a mistake.

ATTENTION ES MODS.... the ExtremeSkins community would appreciate it if you would avoid mistakes in the future.

Yes--that, and wash my windows, dammit.

[Art]

We do not do windows, Newshog .

[thinker]

Die Hard - Perhaps you remeber me. We've PM'd. Look at my posts over the last years. Look at my posts in this thread. I really doubt that you'll find much of anything that I've ever written that was mean in tone, personal, or written wrecklessly or thoughtlessly. I think you've done a disservice to yourself, the board, and to me by referring to me as trash. I think that I have made several fair, carefully thought out, and worded posts here that should give you all something to consider. If sometimes questioning the actions of Snyder, Gibbs, or anybody else with the team is acceptable - how is it that questioning OM makes me trash. You guys set yourselves up for this by transfering ownership of the board to the Redskins. You had to understand that your integrity would be called into question - running an independent board owned by Dan Snyder. But I didn't question anyone's integrity - JLC did. Again, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. But my concerns are still valid and your name calling and extreme defensiveness makes me question whether I have given you all more credit than you desrve in this instance.

[newshog]

Newshog, come now, let's be sensible.

You can get much more inside information than simply speaking with a player.

At the same time, JJ, I'd think you'd concur that when reporting on negotiations, a direct quote from one of the principles is pretty "insider," wouldn't you say? That was my only point there--we as fans and news lunatics had good reason to think that negotiations weren't concluded (that is, that Smoot hadn't signed) because he himself said so. That's not too far-fetched a conclusion, in my opinion.

And the thing is, none of the parties are under ANY obligation to share this with you or I. Just as ES staff are under no obligation to share sources with you or I.

I'm not at all expecting them to share sources--I understand that they can't, and know that they have inside sources. But what I do hope for when I come here--and I've come here for a long time, so I'm well aware of the particular relationship between the site and the team--is as much accuracy as they can muster.

I understand that you believe a mistake was made in this. If anything it was a mistake a semantics, not substance. To demand source information as a result is not only unjustified, it is unreasonable.

That's just the thing--when dealing with the specific issue of whether a player has signed or not, precision is key. I think it was pretty clear that both Smoot and the Redskins were interested in each other. But a lot of folks came here trying to find out if they'd done the dirty deed; so the consternation at the conflicting reports is understandable in my mind. In essence, it was a mistake of substance rather than semantics--not a huge one, not an end-of-times, Earth-plummeting-into-the-Sun variety--but such a mistake nevertheless.

In terms of integrity, I'll leave that for you to decide. However, in my opinion you are owed nothing in terms of an explaination.

Nor am I seeking one, to be sure. I'd just like to have confidence that more care will be exercised in the future. And I do think it will be the case--if only to keep people like me from bogging this place down.

That certainly wasn't my intention either--I just wanted to explain myself after coming out a little more high-horsedly than I'm meant to. So for the bogging and the high horse, you all have my apologies!

But not for my main point.

[newshog]

We do not do windows, Newshog .

And you call yourselves a full-service operation. Bah!

[CMonster]

Since you're so concerned with 'accuracy' and 'integrity', I'll politely point out that we didn't take a cent from the Redskins when we agreed to this deal. Most of us have SPENT money during the past several years, not earned any. So thats patently untrue.

Secondly, no 'mod' said anything to you (other than Om) - I'm not a moderator, nor is Die Hard.

Facts can be fuzzy things, can't they?

Point taken, but that doesn't change my point. Die Hard is afforded a level of respect here that I am not an his incorrectly calling me trash remains out of line.

Couple of things here.

1) No one is a reporter. ES isn't a news outlet. It's a message board. Going by your member #, you should know this. That you don't is mindboggling.

2) ES didn't take any money. It was a merger. NONE of us are on Snyder's payroll. That is reality.

3) YOUR false claims that have been shown now calls your integrity into question. And you seem to be lacking.

1) Righteous indignation aside, a mistake was made regardless of how ES is classified. When it became common knowledge through insiders that Fletcher would become a Redskin it was not labeled "Signed" and made a sticky.

2) Not sure that I'd give ownership of something of mine for nothing but I admire and salute this being a labor of love for you and others. That doesn't change the fact that this site is, at least partially, owned by the Redskins. And yes I've been here long enough to know that when a custom made post is made a sticky labeled "signed" that it is considered fact not insight or speculation. I know very well what would happen if I claimed to have inside info and labeled it incorrectly or did not provide a link. Why is that up for debate?

3) While I was incorrect about who does have the current title of mod and the details of a private business deal...that makes me uninformed but in no way calls my integrity into question.

How many others are going to impugn me? I've insulted no one (other than the 22 year old admittedly looking to start internet fights) and merely pointed out that an error was made, a point that should not be in question.

This continues to be bizarre.

[JimmiJo]

At the same time, JJ, I'd think you'd concur that when reporting on negotiations, a direct quote from one of the principles is pretty "insider," wouldn't you say? That was my only point there--we as fans and news lunatics had good reason to think that negotiations weren't concluded (that is, that Smoot hadn't signed) because he himself said so. That's not too far-fetched a conclusion, in my opinion.

I'm not at all expecting them to share sources--I understand that they can't, and know that they have inside sources. But what I do hope for when I come here--and I've come here for a long time, so I'm well aware of the particular relationship between the site and the team--is as much accuracy as they can muster.

That's just the thing--when dealing with the specific issue of whether a player has signed or not, precision is key. I think it was pretty clear that both Smoot and the Redskins were interested in each other. But a lot of folks came here trying to find out if they'd done the dirty deed; so the consternation at the conflicting reports is understandable in my mind. In essence, it was a mistake of substance rather than semantics--not a huge one, not an end-of-times, Earth-plummeting-into-the-Sun variety--but such a mistake nevertheless.

Nor am I seeking one, to be sure. I'd just like to have confidence that more care will be exercised in the future. And I do think it will be the case--if only to keep people like me from bogging this place down.

That certainly wasn't my intention either--I just wanted to explain myself after coming out a little more high-horsedly than I'm meant to. So for the bogging and the high horse, you all have my apologies!

But not for my main point.

I think Om's news was accurate in spirit, albiet not "precise."

But he was so far ahead of the curve that it left the 'Skins fan in all of us with blue-balls for a day...

[richard saunders]

Semi-related story

a couple of years ago, I was given a bit of a news nugget by someone with inside knowledge of the Coles/Moss trade

told it was a done deal.... even when all news sources where clamoring the deal was off, not going to happen, etc.... took some heat over it, but I stuck to my guns because I trusted the source... and he later explained that the hold up wasn't that no one agreed but it was some contractual things that need to be worked out and approved before they could legally announce it was a done deal... but the deal was agreed upon and going to happen

even though respected reporters with excellent source were 100% positive it had feel through.

I remember that thread and all the heat you took. Kudos good sir.

I'm coming into this thread really late. I only have a few questions now though?

Is JLC at Nunyo level yet? Because I couldn't believe his punk ass would write that basura in his blog.

Seriously, why put that out there?

If your going to put it out there, then at least have the cojones to put it in ink. He's simply hiding behind his blog.

I seriously have more respect for Nunyo now. At least he put his name and inaccuracies out on the line.

[newshog]

I remember that thread and all the heat you took. Kudos good sir.

I'm coming into this thread really late. I only have a few questions now though?

Is JLC at Nunyo level yet? Because I couldn't believe his punk ass would write that basura in his blog.

Seriously, why put that out there?

If your going to put it out there, then at least have the cojones to put it in ink. He's simply hiding behind his blog.

I seriously have more respect for Nunyo now. At least he put his name and inaccuracies out on the line.

I hope we can ALL agree that Jason La Canfora is an embarrassment to Redskins reportage. He's so enamored of his blog and the opinion-making that it affords him that he's letting it slip into his (putatively) factual reporting--and that's the death-knell of a beat reporter, in my opinion.

[JimmiJo]

Point taken, but that doesn't change my point. Die Hard is afforded a level of respect here that I am not an his incorrectly calling me trash remains out of line.

Actually he was speaking of me, and he was quite correct.

I tell you, thanks to your determined approach, this is the thread that keeps on giving...

[Tarhog]

How many others are going to impugn me? I've insulted no one (other than the 22 year old admittedly looking to start internet fights) and merely pointed out that an error was made, a point that should not be in question.

Just for the record, you've made strong arguments - I don't so much disagree about the fact that the language was imprecise as that it was all that significant.

Anyway, my jumping into the fray has a lot to do with my incredibly high regard for brother Om. The man is incapable of purposeful deceit, obfuscation, or deviousness.

No intent on my part to impugn your character - I recognize you simply felt this was a big deal.

[Never21Forgotten36]

Is there a way that I can lock my own thread? This is getting ridiculous. I did NOT mean for this to turn into everyone turning on each other over something like this. I made this thread as sort of a light hearted gesture to clear the air of the stuff I was reading in the JLC thread earlier today. That was Bush League compared to what this thread has turned into.

I would like to politely ask whoever runs the show to lock this thread and for everyone to shut up and get on with life. I have never seen any of you guys act like this before. Obviously, some nerves were hit the wrong way, feelings were hurt, and respect has been lost. This was not my intention, and I am tired of reading all of this garbage.

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, everyone chill and let this thing go. Please.

[pjfootballer]

I'm sorry everyone treated you bad OM. They were wrong.

[Om]

I'm sorry everyone treated you bad OM. They were wrong.

No worries, brother. Strange thing is I seem to be one of a very few NOT upset one way or the other.

[Om]

And with that ... off to bed. Maybe tomorrow we'll have some real fun.

'night internets.

[Jumbo]

I think your comments are fine, newshog, but here is my hope:

I hope that many of the posters who were so adamant in expressing their concern for high standards of conduct and the following of rules for the moderators will apply the same to themselves.

If they do, the fact that some of the most vocal have multiple rule-breaking incidents in their user notes will lose some of its irony for me.

Plus it will make the modding go much smoother. :cool:

[robotfire]

To me the disturbing thing about the whole thing is the accusation made by JLC that the Skins may have used OM to chase away other suitors for Smoot.

The game of football is built on the idea of tricking your opponent. I see nothing wrong with that (even though it's a pretty absurd accusation).

[Killerbo]

John, think about the quality of the individuals you are addressing. Is it really worth it?

Think about everything you've done for this site for the past 5 years.... and then think about the quality of individuals that question your "integrity" or motivation. Get to the heart of the core in figuring what the hell they're arguing about and why... and move on.

These aren't the people you sacrifice for. It's evident the majority gets it... and that's why you continue on. Forget the trash.

That isn't right Diehard to call people "trash" just because they have a difference in opinion or don't believe a Mod or anyone with a track record of have credible insider info. They are all entitled to their opinons however right or wrong. So in my opinion, you are wrong in insulting folks on this board by calling them trash.

[TheGift]

Maybe tomorrow we'll have some real fun.