DieselPwr44 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I agree with the sentiment that the rebuilding of the D is going to take 3 years. or so. Once again, what was our defense ranked before Williams got here and where did it rank after his first season here? Since no one wants to step up, here you go.... 2003- 25th in the league 2004- 3rd in the league This whole business that it's going to take three years to get a stout defense back is just plain silly. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 we had good personnel in place though, I'm not convinced we have all the pieces right now. Then again we had an insane amount of bad luck last season too. Any improvement would likely get us at least to middle tier of defenses in the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Pressure Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Man I like that size on Mr. Trannon. Lets draft him and see what happens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. S Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 anyone know about Courtney Taylor of Auburn? He didn't really have any great stat lines, or even standout games, but he's got a good size and speed. Not sure of the numbers off the top of my head. Im not trying to push all Auburn players, but Courtney Taylor was definitely in the posession mold. Auburn's passing attack sucked last year, but Taylor was the guy thrown to in 3rd and 10 situations. Plus playing in the SEC against some darn good defenses has to merit for something. He aint fast or a worldbeater, but he could become a solid complementary/slot receiver in the league, especially for our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 we had good personnel in place though, I'm not convinced we have all the pieces right now.Then again we had an insane amount of bad luck last season too. Any improvement would likely get us at least to middle tier of defenses in the league Insane amount of bad luck? Like what? Loosing a situational player on the first play of the season? Springs bring hurt for alot of the season wasnt really a huge shock was it? Griff not being healthy for a full 16 games, like he ever has been? Daneils looking 34 at age 34? Brunell not getting a offence in 6 months that takes a year to learn? A converted saftey playing MLB looking small and getting beat up? A converted OLB playing saftey not being able to cover WRs? There were not a huge amount of injuries on this team and not really alot of bad luck. Once again, what was our defense ranked before Williams got here and where did it rank after his first season here?Since no one wants to step up, here you go.... 2003- 25th in the league 2004- 3rd in the league This whole business that it's going to take three years to get a stout defense back is just plain silly. :2cents: Made alot of FA moves to get the D in place in that offseason, something we cant do now. For one thing, there isnt the players we neede avaliable in FA, most that would have had a large impact have been franchised. And then there is the cap issue. It wont happen in 1 year at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[[ghost]] Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 we've been down this road before...go back and look at the actual statistics of passing to running in the past 7 SBs. they are intersting and tell a different story form the one you relate.not having a fabulous tandem is no argument against having one...oh btw. and, as you well know, NE and Balt have been laboring to upgrade the quality fo their receiveing corps for years...as did NO...as will San Diego & Chicago most likely. they aren't standing still...contrary to the implications you intend to draw out.... Well, duh. The only "weakness" if you can call it that on any of those teams is there WR tandems. But as they've Clearly demonstrated, you don't need to have good WRs to have less than 5 losses in a season. Those teams were so successful, that they have no other weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 three numbers I'd like you all to ponder: #31 12 19 For those of you that don't know what they mean-- 31st ranked defense, 12 total turnovers gained by the defense and 19 total sacks by the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Spoken like a man who has not seen a Georgia Tech game the last 3 years. Not that I would blame you for that. But living in Atlanta, with a lot of friends who graduated GT, I'm saying CJ is a guaranteed stud based on my own observation. To hell with KC Joyner and the rest. Guy is an absolute human highlight reel. It's not all YouTube's smoke and mirrors. Just so you know, nothing in life is guaranteed, even so called stud college WR's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDane Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 The NFL is littered with the wasted, useless corpses of college human highlight reels who made as much of an impact on professional football as I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bliz Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 The NFL is littered with the wasted, useless corpses of college human highlight reels who made as much of an impact on professional football as I did. Oh I'm well aware. When I was 15 or so, the Redskins drafted a helluva college player named Desmond Howard. I remember being pretty excited. It's just so hard to imagine. How does a guy with Excellent size, excellent hands, excellent vertical, excellent character, and decent-good speed not make an impact? I guess we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 This is a player we might want to play chess with. There are teams out there who desperately need this WR in the draft. If they don't want to trade up to get him, then we should draft him and force them to trade their 1st round pick along with their 2nd round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 Oh I'm well aware. When I was 15 or so, the Redskins drafted a helluva college player named Desmond Howard. I remember being pretty excited. It's just so hard to imagine. How does a guy with Excellent size, excellent hands, excellent vertical, excellent character, and decent-good speed not make an impact? I guess we'll see. I was against howard because he won the heisman... the Heisman has a habbit of jinxing folks in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDane Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Jinxes are dumb. No such thing. The Heismann Trophy simply awards people for college excellence. As we know, college excellence does not necessarily equal professional excellence for several reasons, most notably the differential in talent in college and the caliber of implemented playcalling systems. There's also the psychological element, I'm sure, where flawed characters view the Heismann as the peak and rest on those laurels thereafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lzeis24 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 CJ reminds me too much of Mike Williams from USC and Charles Rogers from Mich State. Great in college, dominating games and making tremendous plays, but equaling a Keyshawn Johnson in the pros. Big, not that fast, and not much seperation. Good, solid possesion receiver. I agree that both Williams and Rogers were dominant in college and have not done much in the pros...but when you watch Johnson - he is on another level. He has great speed. Reminds me more of a bigger Reggie Wayne type of WR at the NFL level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 With Cleveland winning the coin toss ... the chances of getting a shot at CJ have improved. here's how: Raiders take Russell ... Lions go for Thomas ... Cleveland then selects Adrien Peterson (unless they swap picks and trade with the Cowboys ... a real risk). Tampa must then pick BQuinn. Arizona being receiver rich takes Branch or Adams or Anderson and CJ falls into the Skins' lap. Alternatively, the Skins can clinch the deal by trading Portis to Cleveland and flipping spots in the first round. Cleveland would love this deal beacuse it would give them the RB they need plus a top Defensive Draftee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bliz Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 With Cleveland winning the coin toss ... the chances of getting a shot at CJ have improved. here's how: Raiders take Russell ... Lions go for Thomas ... Cleveland then selects Adrien Peterson (unless they swap picks and trade with the Cowboys ... a real risk). Tampa must then pick BQuinn. Arizona being receiver rich takes Branch or Adams or Anderson and CJ falls into the Skins' lap. Alternatively, the Skins can clinch the deal by trading Portis to Cleveland and flipping spots in the first round. Cleveland would love this deal beacuse it would give them the RB they need plus a top Defensive Draftee. I really don't see how the coin toss changed anything in your summary above. Tampa wasn't going to take Peterson anyway, having Cadillac and much more pressing needs elsewhere. Also, that would be the most horrible trade ever. I love CJ's potential, but frankly think if he falls to us the best move is to trade the pick for a goldmine. But trading up to get him? No. Trading Portis to get him? Not a chance. :logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 With Cleveland winning the coin toss ... the chances of getting a shot at CJ have improved. here's how: Raiders take Russell ... Lions go for Thomas ... Cleveland then selects Adrien Peterson (unless they swap picks and trade with the Cowboys ... a real risk). Tampa must then pick BQuinn. Arizona being receiver rich takes Branch or Adams or Anderson and CJ falls into the Skins' lap. Alternatively, the Skins can clinch the deal by trading Portis to Cleveland and flipping spots in the first round. Cleveland would love this deal beacuse it would give them the RB they need plus a top Defensive Draftee. I thought i was seeing double, or clicked on the another thread when I read this here. We're not getting CJ, just suck it up and deal with it. Not to mention this would be a moronic move for us. You sure you're a 'Skins fan? This would be a great way to really hurt the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 With Cleveland winning the coin toss ... the chances of getting a shot at CJ have improved. here's how: Raiders take Russell ... Lions go for Thomas ... Cleveland then selects Adrien Peterson (unless they swap picks and trade with the Cowboys ... a real risk). Tampa must then pick BQuinn. Arizona being receiver rich takes Branch or Adams or Anderson and CJ falls into the Skins' lap. Alternatively, the Skins can clinch the deal by trading Portis to Cleveland and flipping spots in the first round. Cleveland would love this deal beacuse it would give them the RB they need plus a top Defensive Draftee. Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. TB just resigned Chris Simms to a 2 year extension. They have issues at the WR position. Galloway is 35, David Boston is over 30 and is pretty much washed up and Michael Clayton is injury prone. They don't even have a decent TE to throw to, so CJ is the obvious pick here. Then they will go Defense in the later round as their best players on D are WAY over 30 (D. Brooks, R. Barber, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 I thought i was seeing double, or clicked on the another thread when I read this here. We're not getting CJ, just suck it up and deal with it. Not to mention this would be a moronic move for us. You sure you're a 'Skins fan? This would be a great way to really hurt the team. Are you going to cry come april when CJ is introduced as our #1 pick? Get used to it man if CJ is there for us to get, we snag him no questions asked. And Cadillac was hurt last year, which made things all the worse for TB. Peterson would be a good addition, but I think if TB picked first they would try to shop their pick for additional picks. from my other thread With Cleveland winning the coin toss ... the chances of getting a shot at CJ have improved. here's how: Raiders take Russell ... Lions go for Thomas ... Cleveland then selects Adrien Peterson (unless they swap picks and trade with the Cowboys ... a real risk). Tampa must then pick BQuinn. Arizona being receiver rich takes Branch or Adams or Anderson and CJ falls into the Skins' lap. Alternatively, the Skins can clinch the deal by trading Portis to Cleveland and flipping spots in the first round. Cleveland would love this deal beacuse it would give them the RB they need plus a top Defensive Draftee. I can see some of this happening, but I don't see us trading portis, thus mitigating the likelihood of CJ falling to us, although it is more likely then it was yesterday. Tampa won't take Quinn. They just resigned Simms. They need CJ more than they need Quinn.and ps - Sorry about posting the Big Board under the name of Mock Draft. I hadnt had my coffee yet. And I was on my way to a meeting. My bad. Tampa "must" take Quinn?! Tampa resigned Simms. The also have a 35 year old WR and a off-injured WR. The coin flip did nothing to make Galloway 25 instead of 35. They are taking CJ. Good Morning...Blade ... all I said was that chances have "improved' ... have another cup of coffee. The talk down here is that the Bucs will never get another opportunity like this to solve their "QB" problem ... and all the talk show hosts are arguing for the BQuinn pick! It is guaranteed? Nah ... but stranger things have happened on Draft day! If I were GM ... I'd take Quinn over CJ in a heartbeat .... especially if I did not have a franchise QB. Okay for those of you That think Simms signing is a committment it is not. QBs On TBs roster: Bruce Gradkowski Luke McCown Tim Rattay Chris Simms Of those guys Chris Simms is the only real starter they have. Simms was hurt badly last year, and we don't know the real status of Simms, but I think its safe to assume that TB with its high pick might very likely want to take a QB in Quinn, although I could also see them taking Jarvis Moss or Jamaal Anderson to beef up their D line. But As we saw last year the depth Tampa has behind Simms is bad, really bad. Even if Simms has a 2 year deal, Tampa could draft quin and groom him like we did with campbell, and the giants did with eli for a while, before putting him under center. This would make a lot of sense to me, and quin while is a possible draft bust in the making, the fact they still have Chris Simms lessens that loss a bit. If Quin proves to be the next Tom Brady, then TB would be foolish not to take him. MmmmMMmmmm......CJ....CJ > Some Random Fatboy Oh yeah, let's hear it for the CJ Soul Train to the Super Bowl... its coming here, to DC, its in the house, oh yeah! PS. Blade ... I neglected to mention that Simms is not highly regarded in Tampa by either the team or the fans and remains a work in progress! i guess chris simms leading them to a division title wasnt good enough. and what happened to the draft the best player available notion? i guess it should be "draft the best player available only if you already have a franchise quarterback" huh? Yeah I agree, Simms is in the "brunel" level or just below it as far as QBs go, but he is still young. look at his passing stats (from ESPN) Chris Simms Stats Here's what jumps out at me Games Played 2004: 5 games 2005: 11 Games 2006: 3 Games result 19 games over 3 seasons. 2005 had a decent year passing, but in 06 threw the same interceptions as in 05 (7) in only 3 games. Touchdowns, looks like 12 over three years. You don't when ball games if you can't get across the goal line, thats an average of 4 TDs each year That's not a lot of Touchdowns for a guy that hasn't played a full season yet in his career, I agree TB definitely considers russel or quinn if they are still there. Could they get buy with out quinn for a year, possibly, but they do have some experience at WR that could wait there. Having CJ isn't going to matter if they can't get him the ball. (see Randy Moss in oakland last year) Check out Randy Moss's stats on his career... That's quite a drop off between 03 and 06, how much of that was Randy being out 3 games in both cases I dunno, but if you don't have a QB you don't win championships. and noone behind Chriss Simms has even a hint of Trent Dilfer in them. Since coming to oakland 2005: 16 Games, 60 Receptions (down from his days in minnesota) 1005 yards, 16.8 Avg and only 8 TDs 2003: 13 Games, 42 Receptions (way down even for being out 3 games), 553 yards, 13.2 Avg, 3 TDs Oakland didn't have good QB play the last two years, so the quality of play of WRs suffers as a result Now compare his numbers to Santa Moss's Stats 2005: 16 Games, 84 Receptions, 1483 Yards, 17.7 Avg, 9 TDs 2006: 14 Games, 55 Receptions, 790 Yards, 14.4 Avg 6 TDs I think most of us would agree our QB play wasn't that great last year. Thus why I say having a decent QB impacts their offense in Tampa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Are you going to cry come april when CJ is introduced as our #1 pick? Get used to it man if CJ is there for us to get, we snag him no questions asked.And Cadillac was hurt last year, which made things all the worse for TB. Peterson would be a good addition, but I think if TB picked first they would try to shop their pick for additional picks. from my other thread Cadillac got hurt because Gradkowski sucked and teams stacked the line against him. They still have Pittman as far as I know and why would they trade their pick for more picks? As far as I know, they have all their picks and aren't like us giving them away. They take CJ at #4 and use the rest of their draft to improve an aging defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 Cadillac got hurt because Gradkowski sucked and teams stacked the line against him. They still have Pittman as far as I know and why would they trade their pick for more picks? As far as I know, they have all their picks and aren't like us giving them away. They take CJ at #4 and use the rest of their draft to improve an aging defense. Okay... so why is it okay for TB to wait till later to improve an aging defense, but its not okay for the skins? Yeah lack of mid round picks, but I don't understand this logic. Gradowski didn't have that BAd of a season. Gradowski: 177/328 1661 yards 54.0% Completions 5.06 YPA Long of 53 TDs: 9 Ints: 9 Sacks: 25 His Completion percentage was 54% but the guy was a rookie effectively, he played in 12 games. He had 25 Sacks, how much of that is inexperience, and how much of that is their Oline being lousy? 1661 yards, for a rookie that ain't too bad, the TD to INT ration isn't good for sure And if as you say simms is a good QB then looking at Simms numbers hes' played well with what they already have at WR so why would they need to add another one. I think its more likely they draft a FUll back then a WR (Alstot is about to retire or has already), or A LInebacker or Defensive Lineman for their aging D I'd hope Campbell would get that many yards with 25 sacks against him. Of his games he had of the games he played in lets see: NO: lost by 3 24-21 Cincinati: won by 1 Phily: won by 3 Giants: lost by 14 NO: blown out by 17 31-14 (4 sacks no ints) Carolina Lost by 14 24-10 (2 sacks 0 ints) Washington: won by 3 20-17 Dalas, Lost by 28 (1 sack 2 ints) Pit lost by 17 (5 sacks and 3 ints) atlanta lost by 11 Chicago lost in overtime 34-31 so of those games he had lets see 4 or 5 that were decided by just a few points. So excuse me if I think TB needs a WR. They don't, so do they take him on BPA, maybe., but I think they draft an offensive or defensive lineman, maybe they trade up with the lions for their franchised DE/DT to swap picks or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 They need a WR because Galloway is my age and Clayton is never healthy. But D is also getting old there. However on draft day I think Im going to enjoy feeding all the CJ jock sniffers alot of crow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 They re-signed Simms. They take CJ. Also, moving up does nothing for us because we'll still have at least one fo the guys we need/want at #6. Allright lets assume I agree with you that TB needs a Wideout..... Why would they take CJ over jarret? Why with their vast pick arsenal not wait and pick a WR in a later round and in stead work on that Defense that allowed so many points last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 If Gruden takes CJ over Quinn ... he will be run out of town! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 If Gruden takes CJ over Quinn ... he will be run out of town! Which is precisely why I think he'll hedge the bett and take a Defensive impact player like Alan Branch instead. Thus adding fuel to the fire of us being able to trade down. ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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