Gregpeck99 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 eeyeats ... your prescription using your "strengths" hasn't worked too well thus far ... its time to try it the other way ... but a legitimate No. 2 receiver is needed ... desperately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeyeats Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 eeyeats ... your prescription using your "strengths" hasn't worked too well thus far ... its time to try it the other way ... but a legitimate No. 2 receiver is needed ... desperately. it worked pretty well in 2005 when we got on portis' back and rode into the playoffs. things went wrong in 2006 partly becasue our top back was hurt all year and half way through we put in a new quarterback. at that point the big plans go out the window. let's see what happens this year when this are more firmly in place and stable from day 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC girl Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 if we have a defense that only gives up 17points a game we don't CJ, DJ, EJ or any of the other wide receivers you mentioned, we spent big for 2 last year, let's not jump to any conclusions and see if they pan out before we go revamping the entire team again. There will be another draft next year and more WRs available, maybe we should wait it out? I agree, we need to fix the defense as much as possible this year, and then next yeah when we have more draft picks we can worry about adding a little more to the offense. For this year the offense we have will suffice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Bleed -- disagree ... the WR position is THE most important offensive weapon ... you haven't watched the trend in modern NFL play ... its "throw to set up the run" ... not vice versa ... look at the Colts model ... QB plus TWO wideouts plus a field stretching TE plus 2 o.k. RBs and a "mediocre" Defense ... gets you the Big One! Then QB would be your most important offensive weapon according to that, because WR are completely dependent on their QB's. And obviously alot of very good teams still run to set up the pass, like the Chargers. You have a great RB, you use him. You have a great QB you use him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[[ghost]] Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 You know, all these stats and expert opinions on the board have me convinced. Let's get CJ! But only if Jamaal Anderson, Gaines Adams, Alan Branch, Patrick Willis, Paul Poszluzny, Jarvis Moss, Adam Carriker, Amobi Okoye, Reggie Nelson, Laron Landry, Buster Davis, Darrelle Rivis, Marcus McCauley, Leon Hall, Brandon Merriweather, Antoine Cason, and anybody else on the defensive side of the ball is gone. But the likelihood of that happening is impossible- we pick at #6, one of the 16 aforementioned players has to be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyConway Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 The "taking CJ talk at #6" if he's available is because he's a game breaking talent that could be the #1 overall pick in some years. If you can get #1 talent at #6 you take it, no matter what your need is. If not, which is probable, you draft "D". Most teams still don't get this about the draft including the Skins. CJ is no Mike Williams or Charles Rogers. This guy has it all strength, good enough speed, and he is a work-a-holic according to sources. I see him more as a mold between Larry Fitzgerald and Terrell Owens. Except with more talent and little ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 TAX-- agree with you re: CJ ... disagree about AG ... he will be almost as productive as a pro ... you read it here first. I never said anything about AG, I just said I thought he was a Tight End not a Wide out. The fact that he blocks good could make him a highly useful player, especially if used in a formation where he or cooley could be left in or release into a pattern. Note this thread is assuming CJ is gone at #6. I still believe if he's there you take him no questions asked. CJ would be the last cement on a top 5 offense for the next five years. We haven't really drafted any great talents on offense other than Linemen and Campbell in recent years, (and no jacobs doesn't count, I blame the ole ball coach for that one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Bleed -- disagree ... the WR position is THE most important offensive weapon ... you haven't watched the trend in modern NFL play ... its "throw to set up the run" ... not vice versa ... look at the Colts model ... QB plus TWO wideouts plus a field stretching TE plus 2 o.k. RBs and a "mediocre" Defense ... gets you the Big One! Sorry...there aren't any trends that support this. I see one season where the Colts broke through after 7 years of playoff futility. That's it. Other recent Super Bowl winners had virtually nothing in common with this year's Indy team. Pittsburgh, Tampa, New England, Baltimore all won titles with WR pairings ranging from pretty good to mediocre at best. Even if you only want to stick to this season - let's look at the most successful teams in the league in 06: New England, Chicago, San Diego, New Orleans, Baltimore. I don't see a terrific WR tandem in that grouping. In fact, I see a couple of very marginal pairs. Where were the fabulous tadems in St. Louis, Cincy, and Carolina? Oh that's right - home for the playoffs. You might want to go back to the drawing board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Sorry...there aren't any trends that support this. I see one season where the Colts broke through after 7 years of playoff futility. That's it. Other recent Super Bowl winners had virtually nothing in common with this year's Indy team. Pittsburgh, Tampa, New England, Baltimore all won titles with WR pairings ranging from pretty good to mediocre at best. Even if you only want to stick to this season - let's look at the most successful teams in the league in 06: New England, Chicago, San Diego, New Orleans, Baltimore. I don't see a terrific WR tandem in that grouping. In fact, I see a couple of very marginal pairs. Where were the fabulous tadems in St. Louis, Cincy, and Carolina? Oh that's right - home for the playoffs. You might want to go back to the drawing board. we've been down this road before...go back and look at the actual statistics of passing to running in the past 7 SBs. they are intersting and tell a different story form the one you relate. not having a fabulous tandem is no argument against having one...oh btw. and, as you well know, NE and Balt have been laboring to upgrade the quality fo their receiveing corps for years...as did NO...as will San Diego & Chicago most likely. they aren't standing still...contrary to the implications you intend to draw out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bliz Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Most teams still don't get this about the draft including the Skins. CJ is no Mike Williams or Charles Rogers. This guy has it all strength, good enough speed, and he is a work-a-holic according to sources. I see him more as a mold between Larry Fitzgerald and Terrell Owens. Except with more talent and little ego. ...and excellent hands:stop: (Where's my "TO Sucks" smiley?) :logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDane Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Regardless of whether or not it's important to have stars at the WR position -- I personally think it's not at all important -- I can't get over one thing. What the **** is this obsession with tall receivers? Just stop. It's stupid. A good receiver is a good receiver, it doesn't matter what his height is. Even in the extremely unlikely event that we need some height to win, we have Chris Cooley. Maybe I'm not speaking your language. If the team "needs" a tall receiver, then the team obviously has issues elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLEED-B&G Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 eeyeats ... your prescription using your "strengths" hasn't worked too well thus far ... its time to try it the other way ... but a legitimate No. 2 receiver is needed ... desperately. it's actually the only prescription that has worked for us, first in 05, then the second half of last year, we didn't get production from the offense until we established our running game you can't try and model the skins based on a different team with totally different personel and coaching strategy We play in the NFC East, where defense and the running game wins you ball games You forget we are working with QB in his second year starting. JC will make mistakes next year, it's better to lean on the running game while he develops and continue to improve our passing game as he progresses. i.e. 08 draft/09 draft Bottom line what will help JC right now is not having to put up 35 points to win a game, if we have a defense who can stuff the opposing team we have a much better chance at winning..period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 This is Deja Vu all over again- Yogi Berra Skins need talented youth on the defensive line, as 3 out of the four starters are on the wrong side of 30. Solution? Draft a wide receiver!! Brilliant!!!! No suprises here though. This type of thinking happens every year. How else can one explain not spending a pick on a DE or DT in the first two rounds of the draft since 1997? Redskins fans for the past ten years: "Our front four can't generate any pressure on it's own and needs safety and corner help to even stop the run. We should draft some Dlineman the next draft." Then April comes and a mysterious switch is flipped. All rational,common-sense type thinking goes out the window.. "Mel Kiper,KC Joyner, all those $9.99 rags say that "X" receiver is the second coming of Jerry Rice!! To hell with fixing the defense. Draft receiver "X"!!" Now comes opening day,2007. Mid-third quarter, Skins fans turn to one another and ask " Why can't our front four get pressure on the QB?? " Deja Vu indeed...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bliz Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 "Mel Kiper,KC Joyner, all those $9.99 rags say that "X" receiver is the second coming of Jerry Rice!! To hell with fixing the defense. Draft receiver "X"!!" Spoken like a man who has not seen a Georgia Tech game the last 3 years. Not that I would blame you for that. But living in Atlanta, with a lot of friends who graduated GT, I'm saying CJ is a guaranteed stud based on my own observation. To hell with KC Joyner and the rest. Guy is an absolute human highlight reel. It's not all YouTube's smoke and mirrors. And yes, the defense definitely needs help. But I think if the roles were reversed people would be saying the same thing. Try to imagine that the defense looked like it was in decent, but promisng shape, and the offense needed several fixes (difficult I know). A guy who looks convincingly like the second-coming of Reggie White was sitting there waiting to be taken......should we not even consider it? Should we pass on Reggie Bush because the defense has more holes? The most hilarious thing about the 5000 threads tackling this question is that everyone knows Calvin won't be there by the time we draft. Simply won't happen, and you can take that to the bank. Yet we all insist on debating it over and over... is the offseason over yet? :logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 we've been down this road before...go back and look at the actual statistics of passing to running in the past 7 SBs. they are intersting and tell a different story form the one you relate. Not sure what your point is. Are you talking about the individual Super Bowl winners on the day of the Super Bowl? And what story am I trying to relate? My post was in response to a fallacious post that there is a trend in the NFL where Super Bowl winners have great WR tandems. That's simply false. Come back to earth and at least try to argue something relevant. not having a fabulous tandem is no argument against having one...oh btw. and, as you well know, NE and Balt have been laboring to upgrade the quality fo their receiveing corps for years...as did NO...as will San Diego & Chicago most likely. they aren't standing still...contrary to the implications you intend to draw out.... Again - when/where did I imply that those teams will just stand still? As is often the case, you're arguing something that's just not there....and making yourself look bad in the process. New England has been laboring to upgrade at WR for years? Is that why they let David Givens walk in free agency and traded Deion Branch a few months later? Two starters gone and they signed no one to replace them. That's some upgrade! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friend of the Devil Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I am praying we find some unknown stud wideout in the later rounds this year. Maybe some small school or something. TO and Randy Moss were unheard of until they made their mark in the NFL. I'm hoping for a better late rounder this year than Kili Lefotu. Narcolepsy is an undesireable trait for NFL scouts. HAIL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 CJ reminds me too much of Mike Williams from USC and Charles Rogers from Mich State. Great in college, dominating games and making tremendous plays, but equaling a Keyshawn Johnson in the pros. Big, not that fast, and not much seperation. Good, solid possesion receiver. You might want to rethink your comparison, my friend. http://www.sptimes.com/2007/02/14/Bucs/Georgia_Tech_s_Johnso.shtml For those who don't want to take the time to read the article, it reports Johnson's 4.33 40 and 43 inch vertical jump. That's right. 4.33. Don't forget that he's 6'5" and weighs 230 pounds. We won't have an opportunity to draft CJ; that's why the gazillion posts that talk about "what if he drops" just don't make any sense to me. He won't. Period. But if he did (which he won't), we'd be idiots not to take him. Sorry...there aren't any trends that support this. I see one season where the Colts broke through after 7 years of playoff futility. That's it. Other recent Super Bowl winners had virtually nothing in common with this year's Indy team. Pittsburgh, Tampa, New England, Baltimore all won titles with WR pairings ranging from pretty good to mediocre at best. Even if you only want to stick to this season - let's look at the most successful teams in the league in 06: New England, Chicago, San Diego, New Orleans, Baltimore. I don't see a terrific WR tandem in that grouping. In fact, I see a couple of very marginal pairs. Where were the fabulous tadems in St. Louis, Cincy, and Carolina? Oh that's right - home for the playoffs. You might want to go back to the drawing board. Agree totally with this post, and with your response a bit later. Who's the last elite WR to win before Marvin Harrison? Holt/Bruce, I guess. Before them? Jerry Rice, it seems to me. There is a subtle but crucial difference between having a successful passing game and having great WRs. One does not necessarily entail the other. This is especially true when considering the idea that a great passing game does not require great WRs. Look at New Orleans. They led the league in passing this year by a wide margin with a 7th round rookie WR, a rookie RB, an aging oft-injured former star, and a bunch of other no-names. Same deal with Philadelphia, who was 3rd. New England consistently has one of the top passing games, but has one of the worst WR corps around. The fact is that even mediocre WRs can put up big numbers in the right scheme with the right QB. Look at Jabar Gaffney in the playoffs, or Mike Furrey for the Lions, or any number of Eagles receivers who have ever been a target of McNabb's. As far as I'm concerned, WRs are approximately as easy to replace as RBs, and that's saying something. Again, I'd love to get CJ, because he's a terrific player. But to say that WRs are the most important offensive position just doesn't ring true to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 What is with all the negativity on CJ. THe initial post in the thread is about okay if CJ isn't there, then late in the draft or as an undrafted Free agent can we find a diamond in the rough that could fill that role, though maybe not with the same pizaz as CJ I agree with the one guy, the odds of CJ falling to us go up the more people in TB or DT think about it. So I raised this thread to discuss okay, if CJ isn't there where else later on could we maybe get a WR that can contribute and fill our #2 spot by years end. I am praying we find some unknown stud wideout in the later rounds this year. Maybe some small school or something. TO and Randy Moss were unheard of until they made their mark in the NFL. I'm hoping for a better late rounder this year than Kili Lefotu. Narcolepsy is an undesireable trait for NFL scouts. HAIL! Actually Randy Moss was somewhat known because of a couple bowl games Marshall went to if memory serves. But your right about TO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 The Giants grabbed Plax ... the Eagles ... Stallworth ... the Cowboys ... TO. These teams get it. The Skins? All they have to do is give Cleveland or Tampa their No. 1 in 2008 and flip positions ... and CJ the Stud will be in B&G. I know it probably won't happen ... but it could! Yea and I know they picked up ARE and Lloyd last year ... but that was minor league stuff ... this is BIG ... the Skins will not have this opportunity again anytime soon (I expect a winning record in 2008). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 The Giants grabbed Plax ... the Eagles ... Stallworth ... the Cowboys ... TO. These teams get it. The Skins? All they have to do is give Cleveland or Tampa their No. 1 in 2008 and flip positions ... and CJ the Stud will be in B&G. I know it probably won't happen ... but it could! Yea and I know they picked up ARE and Lloyd last year ... but that was minor league stuff ... this is BIG ... the Skins will not have this opportunity again anytime soon (I expect a winning record in 2008). Just how many SuperBowls have they taken those teams to?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 it's actually the only prescription that has worked for us, first in 05, then the second half of last year, we didn't get production from the offense until we established our running gameyou can't try and model the skins based on a different team with totally different personel and coaching strategy We play in the NFC East, where defense and the running game wins you ball games You forget we are working with QB in his second year starting. JC will make mistakes next year, it's better to lean on the running game while he develops and continue to improve our passing game as he progresses. i.e. 08 draft/09 draft Bottom line what will help JC right now is not having to put up 35 points to win a game, if we have a defense who can stuff the opposing team we have a much better chance at winning..period ummmm...that has gotten to be a cliche...the iggles are mostly a passing team with Donovan at QB and the Boys signed TO/Glenn for a reason. the point is -> no way on Earth the defense is repaired in one off-season. it is entirely valid to look at this as a 2 (maybe, god forbid) 3 year project. in that case, if you can sign a CJ to elevate the offense to another level while signing a defensive FA or two this season (having mucked up the draft already) and then complete the defense's rebuild next off-season.....you are set for 2-3 years...and have an awesome offense to show for it. the defense simply isn't going to get all that much better this off-season - the wiggle room isn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 With most of the people that could help in FA being franchised, Im tending to agree with rebuilding the D will be a multi-year thing at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 the point is -> no way on Earth the defense is repaired in one off-season. What was our defensive ranking before Gregg Williams arrived and what did it go up to in one season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siven Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 What was our defensive ranking before Gregg Williams arrived and what did it go up to in one season? basically, revitalize the defense, and you'll see the team become much much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 I agree with the sentiment that the rebuilding of the D is going to take 3 years. or so. And as for the boys Giants Eagles Eagles as a franchise = 2 Super Bowls Giants = 3 Cowboys = have been to so many I've lost track None in recent memory though (last 5 years I don't think, except maybe the iggles or giants, oh wait there ya go) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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