Explanation on why our secondary was exposed from a Player

[desertfox59]

Good thread. but there is something our secondary did worse than cover this year....I'll explain later....

my coaches have always warned me not to look in the backfield at the qb until i read the linemen.

This is correct. Even in a cover 3 with the FS in the middle of the field he should still be checking level 1 before he looks at his primary read (the QB). In a cover 2 it's crucial that the DB's read level 1.

What's really amazing, if this is true, is how this coach still has a job. That's a failure at the most basic fundamental level of football.

Honestly though if this is true, I have to blame Gibbs. For a Head coach to not know or to know and allow an improper techenique to be aparently force fed to Players who were doing it properly to begin with is...quite frankly incompentent. (bash away if you want but I'm a huge Gibbs supporter as my record will show)

pressure from the line and better tackling does help a secondary, but this is the NFL and the game is so fast that sometimes one mis-step in coverage and your already beat, so why make it more difficult on the players?

If this is true, I don't think you coach the game that way...it's just backwards...I mean sure there are going to be misdirection/influence/counter/draw plays but you don't coach your defense to stop them....Yes be aware of them but because they are few and far between, your defensive foundation should be about reading your keys in the proper order and stopping the core plays that they run first not second. I promise every one of you that the core plays of any offensive scheme are not Mis-direction plays where the Free Safties eyes need to be in the backfield right away.

In my opinion i think Jackson tried to come in to this season and put his stamp on the safties and try to seperate himself from Walker and it failed , hopefully leason learned but we wont know till next season and beyond.

It's a shame that Gibbs or Williams would allow Steven Jacksons ego to inter fear with the coaching of the fundamentals of football...A damn shame.

I find it amussing that if i had to pick the top two areas of our defense that were so drastically different last season was our overall safety play and our third down defense.

this is where we part ways...I think that our over all decline in basic Tackling in the openfield over the last three seasons is the reason why we have gone from #1 to #11 to #29. Right across the board, line, linebackers, DB's.

Interestingly enough Sean Taylor is one of the best openfield tacklers to ever play the game as a redskin.

At least Steve Jackson and Greg Williams haven't screwed that up yet by telling Sean to not break down at the point of contact, keep your feet together, lower your head and dive wildly out of control at the opponents knees. :doh: Given Steve jacksons record of coaching the basics it wouldn't suprise me if he did say that....

...Again if it's true.

[TSO]

I don't know what to think of all this. It just sounds way too simple... you know?

Maybe it is though. I just find it ridiculous that it could be so simple and foolish, and yet, continue on for as long as it did without anyone changing things around. I'm not going to blame Gibbs, even though it is indirectly his fault, but I am going to blame Gregg Williams. He's gotta know what his guys are telling the players and he's gotta know when to step in and say something.

I'm loving the information on Dale Lindsay though. It shows that Gibbs aint playing and at least released someone who screwed things up big time. It also shows that Mcintosh should have a good year next year. Yummy.

[Chump Bailey]

If the problem is as glaring as portrayed with Jackson and his coaching style - one has to wonder why it is that he's still with the team. It took them practically nanoseconds to get rid of Dale.

[DiscoBob]

Until this thread, I never considered Rumph as a possible source for the Tom Friend article, but now that it was suggested......it would make sense seeing that he was released. I was kind of surprised that he was released - he was not going to start here, but I thought he showed some potential.....but this would make better sense....

[Stonoman]

The Skins had no pass rush.Zone always seems to kill the skins in a game.I just think the lack of a pass rush did the Redskins in.

[bobzmuda]

If the problem is as glaring as portrayed with Jackson and his coaching style - one has to wonder why it is that he's still with the team. It took them practically nanoseconds to get rid of Dale.

Probably because Gibbs and Williams talked to both Jackson and Lindsay about what they needed to change to stay with the team. One said he would change, the other said he wouldn't change. Guess which one said he wouldn't change.

[sitting bull]

We already know that... WP made an article on that 2 month ago.

[scruffylookin]

Thanks for the info LL56.

There was nothing wrong with ST in his first 2 seasons, why Gregg Williams allowed a change in how the safeties play and thus screw up his most prized player is really a head scratcher for me.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

Too many chiefs, not enough indians.

Ironic on the Redskins, ain't it?

[MisterPinstripe]

What you said.

Completly agree. If this is happening this is on Greg Williams shoulders to a point because he gave him that job, but COMPLETLY on Gibbs shoulders. The fact that we have a corner back coach and THEN a safties coach rather then a DB coach says volumes. It is exremely frustrating and scary that this is going on and nothing is being down to change it. IF it is true, and it really seems like it is, how is this fool coaching in the NFL, let alone STILL on our team? I cant even explain how bothered I am by this... There is NOTHING that concerns me more about this team then this situation. If it is not corrected, we are royally screwed. Im scared. Hold me.

[D'Pablo]

What is Mike Rumph still doing around Ashburn?

[desertfox59]

I just find it ridiculous that it could be so simple and foolish, and yet, continue on for as long as it did without anyone changing things around.

Football is such a simple game. But it is usually the simple things that get lost in the rush to complicate it's simplissity.

I'm not going to blame Gibbs, even though it is indirectly his fault, but I am going to blame Gregg Williams. He's gotta know what his guys are telling the players and he's gotta know when to step in and say something.

It's clear that what we had on our team was a failure to communicate.

I agree with your statement but I would add this addendum: what's good for the goose (williams) is good for the gander (Gibbs). You must hold Gibbs accountable for his Incompentence in this matter. A clear strategy and directive from you leader on the matters of fundamentals of coaching tactics to your second in command must be discussed before the assessment of talent and application of it to his underlings should it not?

It also shows that Mcintosh should have a good year next year. Yummy.

I hope so. that would really help this team.

If the problem is as glaring as portrayed with Jackson and his coaching style - one has to wonder why it is that he's still with the team. It took them practically nanoseconds to get rid of Dale.

I think bobZumeda has it right....

"Probably because Gibbs and Williams talked to both Jackson and Lindsay about what they needed to change to stay with the team. One said he would change, the other said he wouldn't change. Guess which one said he wouldn't change."

....I think it brings up an interesting point about Williams though. Either Williams was o.k.-ing Lindsay's coaching or he was un-able to control his underlings...either way that's not a good reflection on Williams as our next head coach. When your two choices are either incompentence or lack of leadership, well you're in trouble.

Until this thread, I never considered Rumph as a possible source for the Tom Friend article, but now that it was suggested......it would make sense seeing that he was released. I was kind of surprised that he was released - he was not going to start here, but I thought he showed some potential.....but this would make better sense....

We might be sorry that we let Rumph go....But I understand it. He didn't follow the chain of command. You don't go crying to the press about something, and expect to get away with it, unless all courses of action had been tried. Or your name is lavar or Clinton.

The Skins had no pass rush.Zone always seems to kill the skins in a game.I just think the lack of a pass rush did the Redskins in.

the redskins of old used to play alot of Man to Man ...If you could do it why not? We must not be able to do it.

Too many chiefs, not enough indians.

Ironic on the Redskins, ain't it?

Brevity and Humor in the same post gets you a :applause: from me...

...nailing the bullseye like a sharpshooter gets you one of these...:notworthy

Great post.

Completly agree. If this is happening this is on Greg Williams shoulders to a point because he gave him that job, but COMPLETLY on Gibbs shoulders. The fact that we have a corner back coach and THEN a safties coach rather then a DB coach says volumes. It is exremely frustrating and scary that this is going on and nothing is being down to change it. IF it is true, and it really seems like it is, how is this fool coaching in the NFL, let alone STILL on our team? I cant even explain how bothered I am by this... There is NOTHING that concerns me more about this team then this situation. If it is not corrected, we are royally screwed. Im scared. Hold me.

It is scary...I have faith in Gibbs to turn it around. I also understand why it was so difficult this year for him to step in on the defensive side and correct some of their failures, I mean...did you see our offense...?..Wow..I need held too.

[MisterPinstripe]

It is scary...I have faith in Gibbs to turn it around. I also understand why it was so difficult this year for him to step in on the defensive side and correct some of their failures, I mean...did you see our offense...?..Wow..I need held too.

Yeah... All I can hope is that a guy like Gibbs can learn from his mistakes and correct the problems we see. We wont know till we are into the season really. The biggest thing that needs to be corrected in my opinion is the coaching. Our coaching is just not what it needs to be right now, and we have too many coaches. You just can not have a corner back coach and then a safties coach teaching different things. Make Gray the DBs coach and have one consistent thing be told to all the DBs. Lack of communication was one of the problems with the secondary and that is a direct result of the coaching. I actually wouldnt be surprised if we eventually had a LCB coach, a RCB coach, a FS coach, and then a SS coach. But lets hope not. :doh:

[Peregrine]

If this is true(and wouldnt really surprise me), then yeah, thats really bad coaching. Even I know that its never good to watch the ball... First, its often used for trickery(hand off doesnt mean its a run play), second, its very hard to see behind big fat linemen.

But Linemen do often give away the play. If the line fires out, its almost always a run. Even play action fakes dont have a full fire out by the linemen(would leave the QB totaly unprotected). If the line drops back its almost always a pass. This is why draw plays are so effective, because the Line drops back. Worse case scenario, the Safeties drop back further and arent up to stop the draw(which is used on long yardage passing downs anyway, no biggie). Worse case scenario is you allow extra rushing yards on 3rd and long. The opposite is a much harsher worst case scenario.

Bad coaching corrupts good talent.

[doom44]

The bottom line is that GW is responsible. He is the Asst head coach Defense. If jackson was F'n up and the whispers were in the air....GW should have stepped up and busted balls...plain a simple..cant blame Jackson for his obvious lack of knowledge. If he is allowed to continue screwing up the secondary then GW has failed to do his job. Its a dam shame #28 wont come back as a secondary coach...He would be unmatched in greatness for his leadership skills alone.

[rdskns n 05]

if it's true it makes sense, steve jackson should be fired. HIRE DARRELL GREEN AS THE SECONDARY COACH

:applause: :applause:

[skinsman4u]

Football is such a simple game. But it is usually the simple things that get lost in the rush to complicate it's simplissity.

It's clear that what we had on our team was a failure to communicate.

I agree with your statement but I would add this addendum: what's good for the goose (williams) is good for the gander (Gibbs). You must hold Gibbs accountable for his Incompentence in this matter. A clear strategy and directive from you leader on the matters of fundamentals of coaching tactics to your second in command must be discussed before the assessment of talent and application of it to his underlings should it not?

I hope so. that would really help this team.

I think bobZumeda has it right....

"Probably because Gibbs and Williams talked to both Jackson and Lindsay about what they needed to change to stay with the team. One said he would change, the other said he wouldn't change. Guess which one said he wouldn't change."

....I think it brings up an interesting point about Williams though. Either Williams was o.k.-ing Lindsay's coaching or he was un-able to control his underlings...either way that's not a good reflection on Williams as our next head coach. When your two choices are either incompentence or lack of leadership, well you're in trouble.

We might be sorry that we let Rumph go....But I understand it. He didn't follow the chain of command. You don't go crying to the press about something, and expect to get away with it, unless all courses of action had been tried. Or your name is lavar or Clinton.

the redskins of old used to play alot of Man to Man ...If you could do it why not? We must not be able to do it.

Brevity and Humor in the same post gets you a :applause: from me...

...nailing the bullseye like a sharpshooter gets you one of these...:notworthy

Great post.

It is scary...I have faith in Gibbs to turn it around. I also understand why it was so difficult this year for him to step in on the defensive side and correct some of their failures, I mean...did you see our offense...?..Wow..I need held too.

Redskin fan here!

DesertFox59 this a great post, salient and insightful! We need smart guys /gals up on this board, like you. I think the biggest thing in our offense is the in ability to analyze current situation (during the game), make adjustments and scheme based on what you see. Our vision on what the opponent’s defense is doing is way off key. We have the deepest skill positions in the league; I mean all of them are high powered skill position players, but we can't set the conditions for success. We have, in no particular order, Cartwright, Brunel (yes we still need Brunel) Betts, CP, EL, Thrash, Cooley, Sellers, Campbell, Moss, Lloyd, Epps.

So what's the problem? Hell, I'm not in the club house but from looking at a distance, we don't appear to be very well coached and we don't own the LOS (Line of Scrimmage). Why? First off we make way too many mistakes. More times then not our OL does something dumb that (1) takes points off the board, (2) turns back a huge play or (3) stalls a drive and we're just not playing on the OL at a championship level. How do we fix that? Simple, discipline! We also have not found an identity on the OL.

What is the punch line (what numbers do we like to call). Our play in the red zone proves that we don't have one or at least it's not definitive. We also have poor play at the blocking TE position. Hey, we need a thumper of a TE. Oh Cooley's All-Pro! Better yet he's All-World! You got to love Cooley!! And I’ll say it with 2 exclamation marks.” But he's more of a pass catching TE and can play slot (high light slot).

If we had a thumper of a TE we could take Cooley and run him in the slot, for just a series, and have that thumper embraced with the OLB on the play side (side that the play is designed for) get Rabach (Casey, I think that's his name) but anyway get the center or guard down on the MLB, and get the play action going. When the time is right sneak Cooley up underneath or Moss or EL or Thrash (yes Thrash can still play) pop him up underneath and switch it back and forth and it also sets up the long ball deep. But this type of scheming takes coaching and vision.

It's okay that we don't own the LOS a lot of teams don't at least not every series, but you must find what you do best and set the conditions to work the time of possession. Indy doesn't have an exactly overwhelming OL but they have a scheme and there very good at what they do. In spots they have folks that can get out on the MLB too and neutralize the OLB to the the play side. They also have a great O' cord. Would I take him over Coach Buges, ah NO and with caps! This season was a prime example of an inability to set the conditions and coach based on situations. But great post Desert Fox59 we appreciate folks like you up on this board. In closing what's our problem? Oh there's a myriad of issues! And it will take coaching to fix.

Side Bar:

Urlacher is not much bigger than Marshall (97)!

[TheREALJBird]

Well based on the reference it's definitely Mike Rumph you're talking about. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this one, that Jackson guy was a terrible hire from the get go

[desertfox59]

Redskin fan here!

DesertFox59 this a great post, salient and insightful! We need smart guys /gals up on this board, like you.

Thank you. That was very nice of you to say. :helmet:

Redskin fan here!

This season was a prime example of an inability to set the conditions and coach based on situations.

It starts at the top. Joe Gibbs needs take back control of his 2 and 3 and get them focused on the fundamentals again. I can't disagree with any of your points.

I espically like the whole, "we dictate what we do on offense, the defense doesn't." that is accurate.

Cooley is great, but he does need to block better. He could take some lessons from Art Monk.

Your LOS argument is right on also. We don't own it, we borrow it from the enemy some times, if we can. That is a problem...We should take it when we need it.

In closing what's our problem? Oh there's a myriad of issues! And it will take coaching to fix.

Agreed. More and more it looks like it was the coaches who faild us the most this year. This is a product of Gibbs giving up to much control.

Joe Gibbs set the agenda. Lead this team again. Get back to the basic fundamentals of the game, and you'll have a winner again.

[stp240]

Well..If Lindsay was keeping Rocky out, was Jackson keeping AA out?

Its easy to point a finger and yell "he did it"

How do we fix this mess?

[cmorina69]

if it's true it makes sense, steve jackson should be fired. HIRE DARRELL GREEN AS THE SECONDARY COACH

Sounds good to me, Dwayne Walker what happened to him sry, did he get fired or somthing? Can we rehire him?? This is tipical GW, we take a great player ST and screw him up because GW thinks he knows eveything.

[zoony]

Wait a minute... I thought Tom Friend went on record saying that it was a Redskins' veteran player who had been there a few years.

Mike Rumph only had one year in the system.

But maybe that was just out there to throw everyone off :whoknows:

(p.s. Thanks for the info LL56. Always enjoy reading your posts)

(p.p.s. I've said from day one... and I still sort of think it... AA was the leak. His wife's posts on this board (which have been erased) echoed what was in that article, and she was posting long before Friend published)

.....

[CPortJGibbs89]

Sounds good to me, Dwayne Walker what happened to him sry, did he get fired or somthing? Can we rehire him?? This is tipical GW, we take a great player ST and screw him up because GW thinks he knows eveything.

He is in his second year as the defensive cordinator for UCLA.

[jimster]

Side Bar:

Urlacher is not much bigger than Marshall (97)!

huh?

Urlacher is almost 30lbs bigger than Marshall. (258 vs 230)

[RRick]

man that's got to be the most SIMPLE explanation,....(take a deep breath)

Dude come on, if it was that simple, then it would have been simpLLy fixed, by a 5yr old.