Campbel goes down... a what if

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

Okay, when CP went down last year in the PreSeason I was feeling antsy from the get go. I knew that without him our team was seriously hurting. Now fastforward a year. Everyone seems to agree that JC should get the majority of the snaps with the first offense, and preseason time, but I'm a bit concerned. What if the unthinkable happens? What if Either through a Preseason game or through no fault of his own, JC gets injured in an accident and is out for four to eight weeks?

What then is the prognosis of this team. assuming we still have brunell maybe we can make the play offs, maybe, but if brunell is gone, I don't like those odds.

What do you guys think?

Mark Brunell comes in and leads the team to the SuperBowl which they win, and Brunell is named SuperBowl MVP. He then retires....done, next question

[Santana Clause]

No way a guy with as little experience as Matt Schuab is a better backup than a vet like Mark Brunell. I would agree with you about Jeff Garcia, except that he is a free agent and will most likely be a starter somewhere next season.

There's a difference between vet, and old man. Brunell is a slow old man who is afraid to take a hit. He isn't a viable backup qb for anymore than a game. I am willing to bet that if you took a poll of NFL gms around the league, of who they would rather have start 3 games NEXT YEAR, you would receive 31 Matt Schaubs. There are 32 teams in the league but, uhm, we don't have a GM.

[Killerbo]

There's a difference between vet, and old man. Brunell is a slow old man who is afraid to take a hit. He isn't a viable backup qb for anymore than a game. I am willing to bet that if you took a poll of NFL gms around the league, of who they would rather have start 3 games NEXT YEAR, you would receive 31 Matt Schaubs. There are 32 teams in the league but, uhm, we don't have a GM.

Zing.....good point

[NoDQForums]

This is how I see our skins.

If JC goes down, Mark goes in. We'll be fine providing we have a running game. That is the big ? mark with MB as a qb and even to some extent with JC. Everything this team has is centered around a strong running game attack. If we don't then we are screwed with pretty much any quarterback on our roster.

My advise is don't let JC ride around on a motorcycle in the off season and we should be okay. Though I do think this team needs to start searching for a new solid backup after this next season is over.

[wildbill1952]

I hate the thought of JC getting hurt, but this is the way it should play out. You need one vet for the unthinkable and one young guy in the wings. The vet and the young guy work together to try and get the young guy to replace the number one, even though it's not expected. If everybody does their job, before the season is over the vet becomes number 3 and the young guy becomes number two. Number one only plays the first quarter in pre=season, the vet the second quarter and the young guy the second half. You play the young guy when games are out of reach, either for you or your opponents.

The aging vet is there only as a one to 2 game backup, If the season is over and your quarterback gets hurt, then the young guy plays. If you're in the hunt, then the vet plays. Two vets should not be necessary. It's bad for cap space and if you get to your third QB, you're pretty much done for anyway.

If you get to the third QB, it doesn't hurt to have a Randle El around either.

JMHO.

[Rskins06]

Betts running the ball very well is what forced defenses to move the safties up. Which allowed for JC to throw downfield. When Brunell was back there we didnt have a running game.

Glad to see I am not the only one who seen this. JC would have been pathetic had he had the pressure MB had in his face (we all know MB struggled as well). Teams knew our running game was not where it needed to be. The games where MB looked good (and JC looked good) was when the running game was working.

IF JC gets hurt, we are fine, we do have a good backup who, with a running game is still a dangerous quarterback. Get rid of the running game, we suck again. Won't matter though, if our defense doesn't improve, we will suck again anyway.

[Fred Jones]

Mark Brunell comes in and leads the team to the SuperBowl which they win, and Brunell is named SuperBowl MVP. He then retires....done, next question

Finally, after the sixth page of this thread someone finally gets it right.

[Rskins06]

I won't lie, Brunell did great with what he had in 05, but in 06 he looked piss-poor with more weapons than he had the previous year.

You my friend, are the last Brunell supporter left in these parts.

Wrong, yes, Brunell had more weapons (JC played with the same weapons), Brunell had zero help from the o-line, our running game sucked and he had no time to throw the ball, not to mention our defense made Vince Young already look like a hall of famer, Travis Henry look like Jim Brown reincarnated and both rookie qb's we played already looked like hall of famers. Had the o-line played as poorly the last 6 games as they did the first 10 and our running game lacked because of it, we would be talking about getting rid of JC and bringing in a new qb.

We need to keep MB in place as the backup. I'm sure everyone wanted Doug Williams gone as well the year he won the superbowl. He was the washed up, old qb who should have retired before the season and was not a good backup.

MB can mentor JC and teach him how to play the game, not to mention, we wouldn't be bringing in a back up who doesn't know this system and ask him to mentor JC. The only qb out there to consider would be Damon Houard (sp) from KC who knows the system.

[21Knock_U_Out]

Betts running the ball very well is what forced defenses to move the safties up. Which allowed for JC to throw downfield. When Brunell was back there we didnt have a running game.

Yds per carry were almost the same when he was in and when he was out.We just ran more at the end!

[21Knock_U_Out]

Brunell had zero help from the o-line, our running game sucked and he had no time to throw the ball,

He got sacked more becase he could not elude pressure, because he was too slow.Campbell made a buch of plays eluding pressure with his feet and agile body, shedding would be tacklers.That was the difference with the pressure, not the Oline.

[MustangSteve]

Here is my thought, Mark Brunell is the best back up Qb on the market for the Redskins. Why? Because He has proven when healthy he can win, and he already has a year in Al Saunders system.

We can not and will not get another back up qb who can learn this offense in a season, have any timing what so ever with our recievers or even come close to leading this team in any way shape of form.

Collins just sucks and doesnt even belong here, he is the only Qb we should get rid of and bring in another young backup to sit under Campbell and Brunell to learn this year.

Very good point and I agree with ya Veretax, without Brunell I think we would be done for the season if Campbell goes down. I sure hope we get him signed this season.

[#98QBKiller]

Wrong, yes, Brunell had more weapons (JC played with the same weapons), Brunell had zero help from the o-line, our running game sucked and he had no time to throw the ball, not to mention our defense made Vince Young already look like a hall of famer, Travis Henry look like Jim Brown reincarnated and both rookie qb's we played already looked like hall of famers. Had the o-line played as poorly the last 6 games as they did the first 10 and our running game lacked because of it, we would be talking about getting rid of JC and bringing in a new qb.

We need to keep MB in place as the backup. I'm sure everyone wanted Doug Williams gone as well the year he won the superbowl. He was the washed up, old qb who should have retired before the season and was not a good backup.

MB can mentor JC and teach him how to play the game, not to mention, we wouldn't be bringing in a back up who doesn't know this system and ask him to mentor JC. The only qb out there to consider would be Damon Houard (sp) from KC who knows the system.

I'm not saying we need to get rid of Brunell, I'm saying he needs to stay a backup. Blaming things on the O-Line doesn't cut it. Brunell even had Clinton Portis handling the run for several games, who is a better back than Betts and gained 523 yards despite only starting 7 games.

The difference is Brunell can't throw an accurate deep ball anymore so defenses can just stack the line with defenders. You don't see that when Campbell is in the game, they have to respect the long ball.

Also, when defenders did make it through our O-Line and came at Mark Brunell, he couldn't escape. It was always an instant sack for opposing defenses that collapsed the pocket. Jason Campbell is much more mobile and can elude defenders with his younger, less banged-up body.

[BleedBNG]

I'm not saying we need to get rid of Brunell, I'm saying he needs to stay a backup.

Yeah, if we made him 3rd string, he'd go somewhere else....

I'd rather have Collins as backup. I trust Saunders instincts more than from those who feel he sucks.

I've seen enough of Brunell. Period. :mad:

[Pungopal]

This sounds familiar. In 86 Jay Schroeder had a 12-4 record. In 87 he played only 9 games with a nagging injury only to be replaced by Doug Williams. Hopefully Campbell can come close to the same scenario. We need to have Brunell around for insurance and to keep the QB position competitive. Dump Collins and pick up a late rounder or walk on QB for the 3rd position. We should be ok for another year.

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

Mark Brunell comes in and leads the team to the SuperBowl which they win, and Brunell is named SuperBowl MVP. He then retires....done, next question

Finally, after the sixth page of this thread someone finally gets it right.

:bow: :laugh:

[Cyber Pimp]

First of all...If people here are trying to make a case that Brunell should start or is the better option at QB for the Redskins this next season,then your membership here should be revoked cause that's just STUPID!

#1)We never saw how Portis and Campbell would mesh together on the field at the same time!

#2)Campbell not only was pretty much a 2nd year rookie,but didn't even have any practice time with his WR's or much of the 1st team offense like Brunell has for the last 3 years...What's Brunell's excuse?

#3)We didn't win many games not because of his performance,but because our defense decided to take the year off...How many games do we win if our defense was in 04' form with Campbell at QB?

With Campbell at QB I'm sure we ran a lot of vanilla offensive set's to slowly mold him into the offense to the best of his ability,yet giving him a crash course of finding out the speed of the game...

I saw more in JC in 6 games then I saw in Brunell in 3 years...

Brunell plays scared not just for injury purposes but is afraid to get yanked from the game and we all know it!!He throws the ball away making many think it was a smart Veteran decision when we all know,that he more likely would have thrown a dying ball in the air only to see it snagged by the opposing team...

Sad thing is..I don't who I should blame for this rediculous loyalty...Cause If I sucked as bad as brunell played,I would have pulled my ass out of the game...

Not just for the team and the respect of the players,but to save myself the embarrassment later...

If we keep Brunell on our roster for this next season with his Salary...I won't be able to wonder what it will take for Brunell to get his second chance or second wind from gibbs to limp back to the Starting lineup...

I have total respect for Gibbs right now!If that happens, I will have to reavaluate what kind of loyalty we got going on in the lockerroom...

But Remember...!"We haven't seen the last of Mark"

I am. Brunell started 9 games and Campbell started 7, yet Brunell has about 40% more completions over 20 yards. Besides, Brunell's yards per attempt are significantly higher as well, and that stat is right regardless of the number of games played.

Brunell out performed him without the presence of a Running game. If betts didnt step up and established a running game for us. Then Campbell stats would have been worst. JC has a bad wind up. Big wind up equal to slower passes which equals to more ints. The NFL is faster then collage ball.

[Cyber Pimp]

6th in 6 years actually. Jason Campbell has intangibles. He makes a mistake, he bounces back. he's cool and collected under pressure. As a rookie with a trashy defense, he at least kept us in games. Besides, you can't blame him for bad play calling in some games and Brandon Lloyd dropping a pass that would have kept a drive going. If we get our play calling figured out, Brandon lloyd becomes a viable option, our Defense decides to make a tackle here or there. We could be pretty competitive. Of course those are a lot of IFS, but to say he is just average with your only data being that he played the second half of the season with a terrible defense and that he lost games, is pretty silly. Yes he has throwing motion problems, and he does have issues with his drops, but he will imporove. People need to give the kid a fullseason before they say anything negative.l

The running game keep us in games. Not JC.

[Cyber Pimp]

Yds per carry were almost the same when he was in and when he was out.We just ran more at the end!

WTF? Yard per carry. Take a look at yard per game.

[Veretax]

Okay how about you take the WL records of the teams JC played against and line them up against what Brunell had.

I think you will see that JC played against better competition.

However, I still think brunell is a competent backup, but he is aging, he is old, he needs to take a pay cut or get lost.

[Cyber Pimp]

I was at Fed ex fields when they drafted campbell. As I was watching the screen from inside the club level. The commishiner walked on the stage and said "With the 16th pick The Washington Redskins select...." and the damn power went out and it started to pour down rain. I had to make phone calls to see who the skins had picked up because Fed Ex's Field power was totally out. To me that was a sign. And what I seen from JC so far dosent impress me at all.

[Om]

Interesting. To me, QB is one of the spots on this team I'm really not worried about at all.

By the end of last year, Campbell looked like he was on his way to living up to the expectations I've had of him since we drafted him.

In Brunell we have a seasoned vet, slowed, yes, but still capable when healthy. As a backup, he should BE healthy if called upon. And he'll have had a full year under Saunders to learn the system. Collins told us before last season even started it took a full year to learn the system. We should have believed him.

And Collins himself appears a capable backup, either as a short-term 2 or a 3. The man knows the O inside and out, and if nothing else could manage it for a few games.

The Eagles last year were an exception to the rule. There just aren't many teams with serious playoff aspirations that could suffer a season-ending loss to an elite starter and still live up to expectations. Colts? Pats? Bengals? Saints? Panthers? Steelers? Broncos? Chargers? Cowboys? Giants? Jets?

Etc?

[SolidSnake84]

It seems Brunell, when he is well-rested and injury free, plays very well when he has to enter the game. My reasoning is following a disastrous 2004 season, where he played with nagging calf and elbow pain, he was pulled for Ramsey mid-way through the season. When he came in in 2005 in releif of Ramsey, he was injury free and playing at a high level. As the season went on, he wore down, as we could all tell.

In 2006, he was injured over the summer (finger), and was also reportedly having pain in his shoulder and lingering knee pains. When he entered the regular season, he struggled through pain and innefectiveness due to his shoulder (he was hurt since week 2). Brunell has had a whole half-season and a whole off-season to rest and recuperate.

I hypothesize that if he is called on in 2007, he will play fine. Mark can play fine for 4 or 5 games, but i think after that he starts to wear down... But if the team is working as a whole (especially defense), then he can and will take us into the playoffs just like JG did for the eagles, that is of course if the Redskins are doing that well....

[Om]

I was at Fed ex fields when they drafted campbell. As I was watching the screen from inside the club level. The commishiner walked on the stage and said "With the 16th pick The Washington Redskins select...." and the damn power went out and it started to pour down rain. I had to make phone calls to see who the skins had picked up because Fed Ex's Field power was totally out. To me that was a sign. And what I seen from JC so far dosent impress me at all.

Campbell was drafted 25th.

Over his last 3 games, with teams having film on him and beginning to adjust to take away his strengths, and without the teams best offensive player Clinton Portis in the backfield, and with one effective WR, he posted these numbers:

47 for 85 (55%), 584 yards, 4 TD's, 1 INT, and QB rating of 87.1.

In those games, he played rock solid and put up 16 tough points in a road win against the hottest team in the league against NO (and had at least 2 deep balls that could have led to more dropped or misplayed), then put up 31 in a losing effort to the Rams with zero defensive support, then rallied the team in another defensive flop game with a sparkling second half (I'm sure someone could provide the numbers) that included 3 consecutive scoring drives to scare the hell out of the Giants.

Dunno, man. Maybe your standards for being "impressed" given the totality of the circumstances Jason's had to deal with says more about you than it does him.

[Cyber Pimp]

Campbell was drafted 25th.

Over his last 3 games, with teams having film on him and beginning to adjust to take away his strengths, and without the teams best offensive player Clinton Portis in the backfield, and with one effective WR, he posted these numbers:

47 for 85 (55%), 584 yards, 4 TD's, 1 INT, and QB rating of 87.1.

In those games, he played rock solid and put up 16 tough points in a road win against the hottest team in the league against NO (and had at least 2 deep balls that could have led to more dropped or misplayed), then put up 31 in a losing effort to the Rams with zero defensive support, then rallied the team in another defensive flop game with a sparkling second half (I'm sure someone could provide the numbers) that included 3 consecutive scoring drives to scare the hell out of the Giants.

Dunno, man. Maybe your standards for being "impressed" given the totality of the circumstances Jason's had to deal with says more about you than it does him.

The 25th pick I'm sorry. Good to hear from you buddy. He posted those numbers behind a vicious ground attack. Betts was pounding the hell out of the ball which open up the way for Campbell to produce those numbers. Man I just posted my 100th post.

[fwo40]

The running game keep us in games. Not JC.

You do realize that one of the reasons the running game improved under Campbell was that Cambell had the threat of being mobile in the pocket and throwing deep?

Nobody in the league respects whatever Brunell has left, they know that he does not use the middle of the field, that he is flat out afraid to take a hit and often creates pressure himself with happy feet, and that he checks down immediately....

This arguement about Brunell being better than Campbell b/c Brunell was doing it without a running game is in part based on a faulty premise. Teams knew how to gameplan for Brunell and didn't respect him enough to back off on looking run 1st.

It's the same thing that happened in '04...how Clinton even managed 1300 yards that season is beyond me-since 9 guys were looking for him on every snap.

Brunell is done....as a backup he's borderline, but it's insanity to even think of trotting him out there again as a starter.