Peter Queen on the B-mitch show

[bleedburgundyandgold]

Peter just said the same thing on INFL about Monk. Said he changed his mind after several long talks with Gibbs in which Gibbs talked about all the things Monk did that didnt show up on the stat sheet

[floydfurillo]

Give credit where credit is due. He's been saying he's reexamining his position on Monk for 6-8 months after talking with Gibbs. He's actually in many ways on the front end of the recent momentum for Monk, so I don't really agree with you.

Don't be fooled by King's change of heart. The only reason he is doing this is because 6-8 months ago he said his boy Michael Irvin was a sure first ballot HOF, because of his numbers, only to be called out in public that Monk's statistics were better in almost every category. Since he had been one of Monk's ardent detractors, to save face, all of sudden he said he was going to go on this "fact-finding" mission to talk to people from the era like Joe Gibbs. This is all about not looking like a hypocrite if Irvin got in before Monk did.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

When Monk gets in, who from the Redskins do you think will be there at the ceremony?

[drowland]

I'm pretty sure Wilbon supports Monk's inclusion into the HoF.

If we are to believe King's story, then so does Shapiro.

I have no idea where Bell or Elfin stand, though.

You have to remember that it takes, I believe, only 8 'nay' votes in the final rounds to stop someone's entry into the HoF.

So it not that hard to be kept out. All of the local guys could support him, and Monk still could be left out.

Monk has supporters around the country that are HoF voters.

In fact, one of those voters did an interview on a Jacksonville radio station about a year or two ago. He said that there was a block of HoF voters who were commited to the idea that, with the exception of Jerry Rice, no other WR will get into the HoF until Monk does.

I'm not saying they don't support the Skins players. I'm saying they can't seem to sway voting to get them in. DCs more represented in the voting room then most other markets.

[elkabong82]

he is coming around, he said that he will stand up in the voting meeting this weekend and give in endorsement for Monk and Grimm. it would be nice to see both of our boys go in together

I read this and then looked outside, only to see frogs falling from the sky, and hordes of locusts swarming down.

[No_Pressure]

I knew after he said he was gonna talk to Gibbs this summer about Monk he would change his mind. The ultimate enemy is now Dr. Z followed by Pastabelly...man I havent heard anyone call him Pastabelly on here in a while...what happened to this forum?

[SkinsFTW]

The HOF is a joke. Always has been, always will be.

[Ax]

I don't trust King, at all. Unless and until Art makes it in, I'll believe that King's public turnaround is just a new way for HIM to be the story. He would get to say "See, I tried to tell everybody I wasn't the one keeping him out."

And for the record, he can SAY he voted for Art, even if he actually doesn't. If any of the other HOF voters were to bust him out, they'd be off the the squad. They're not allowed to discuss meeting details with the public.

[72SKINS]

I doubt BOTH will go in together. I can't remember when 2 team mates went in the same year.

Well you must have forgotten about 1983,

Sonny Jurgensen and Bobby Mitchell went in the HOF together.

[GibbsFactor]

I'd like to see it go down like this:

07 - Monk

08 - Green

09 - Grimm

10 - Jacoby

11 - Mitchel

One each year for the next 5 would be awesome and a way to keep the Skins in the good public eye!!

[Taylor 36]

I'll believe it when I see it. I don't trust Queeny.

[dockeryfan]

Give credit where credit is due. He's been saying he's reexamining his position on Monk for 6-8 months after talking with Gibbs. He's actually in many ways on the front end of the recent momentum for Monk, so I don't really agree with you.

Yes, he's been saying it for months.

But when did you see the poll on the ESPN site for Monk in the HOF?

Last year.

He saw the tide turning, and he switched sides. I've followed this guy for a long time, he's not on the cutting edge of anything.

[dockeryfan]

In fact, one of those voters did an interview on a Jacksonville radio station about a year or two ago. He said that there was a block of HoF voters who were commited to the idea that, with the exception of Jerry Rice, no other WR will get into the HoF until Monk does.

Wow. That's a good protest vote.

[dockeryfan]

Don't be fooled by King's change of heart. The only reason he is doing this is because 6-8 months ago he said his boy Michael Irvin was a sure first ballot HOF, because of his numbers, only to be called out in public that Monk's statistics were better in almost every category. Since he had been one of Monk's ardent detractors, to save face, all of sudden he said he was going to go on this "fact-finding" mission to talk to people from the era like Joe Gibbs. This is all about not looking like a hypocrite if Irvin got in before Monk did.

Spot on.

The longer Irvin stays out, the worse it is for Peter King, because he trumpets him so loudly.

So now he comes up with this I've done research crap. What did your research consist of before?

[Cincycowboy]

Steelers did it in back to back years:

Blount and Bradshaw in '89

Harris and Lambert in '90

This is sort of amazing:

Joe Greene: '87

Jack Ham: '88

Mel Blount: '89

Terry Bradshaw: '89

Franco Harris: '90

Jack Lambert: '90

Chuck Noll: '93

Mike Webster: '97

Lynn Swann: '01

John Stallworth: '02

Doresett and R White did in 1994

[Rocky21]

I don't trust King, at all. Unless and until Art makes it in, I'll believe that King's public turnaround is just a new way for HIM to be the story. He would get to say "See, I tried to tell everybody I wasn't the one keeping him out."

And for the record, he can SAY he voted for Art, even if he actually doesn't. If any of the other HOF voters were to bust him out, they'd be off the the squad. They're not allowed to discuss meeting details with the public.

I was going to post a thread that was almost exactly what Ax said right here.

I don't trust Peter Queen and I won't uncork the champagne until after the announcement on Saturday.

[RedskinsNation]

If Monk makes it this year, I will drive to Canton Ohio....mark my words.

HTTR!

[hokie4redskins]

Shockingly, he just gave the Redskins some love.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/02/01/playoffs/index.html

2:1 -- Art Monk, Michael Irvin. Monk and Irvin could cancel each other out, though both deserve to make it. There's going to be some sentiment in the room along the lines of "Geez, could we please get Monk in and end this annual melodrama with him?'' Troy Aikman and Jimmy Johnson are really trying to help Irvin's candidacy with some gentle reminders to voters about how hugely important Irvin was to the Cowboys' success.

4:1 -- Russ Grimm, Gary Zimmerman, Richard Dent, Fred Dean. Come on. Put a Hog in the Hall. That's my view ... And Zimmerman was on two all-decade teams: the eighties and nineties. Very deserving ... Dent and Dean could cancel each other out. Both are deserving, and one could sneak in during a year when there are no locks.

[Jarvman]

I don't trust King, at all. Unless and until Art makes it in, I'll believe that King's public turnaround is just a new way for HIM to be the story. He would get to say "See, I tried to tell everybody I wasn't the one keeping him out."

And for the record, he can SAY he voted for Art, even if he actually doesn't. If any of the other HOF voters were to bust him out, they'd be off the the squad. They're not allowed to discuss meeting details with the public.

And herin lies the problem. The vote should be made public. Blocks of voters have their bias and don't vote for deserving players because of it. If the vote was made public then the "biased" voters would be caught in the headlights and would have to change their tune or be voted out.

[Diss]

Did MItchell by any chance mention the Monk video on his show?

I ask because he's talked about it there before, and I would love to hear how King might've reacted to it.

Just as an update, I've actually heard from a number of the voters who have seen the video, and they've been very positive about it. One was so impressed that he gave me his personal list of the other voters' emails so I could contact them, which I did, reminding them that if they never received the DVDs of the MOnk piece, they could always watch it online on the Web site.

Heard back from David Elfin most recently, who thought it would help the case.

As you might expect, I've heard nothing but crickets from the Dr. Z and Len P. camps.

[jbooma]

King is just playing to the media.

Now that people are actually coming around to Monk after WAY too long, he wants to be on the winning side.

Harry Carson just made it in, and King was using all the good team mate, character guy, made everyone better, mantras.

Well, it applies even more to Monk, and he knows it. And other voters seem to know it as well.

So now King wants to be on the winning team, and say, see, I wanted him in and now he got in.

Sorry you are wrong.

He had a talk with Joe and after that thought about why he voted so hard for Carson and decided they were identical, meaning most of what they did was not listed on any stats.

The fact Peter King said on a national show such as Inside the NFL this week (sorry bubba not just local radio :laugh: ) that he was wrong on Monk and feels both Monk and Thomas are the only ones that will make it this year.

I give him a lot of credit for saying on national tv as well his column that he was wrong on Monk, hopefully his vote will sway others for it to happen.

[bschurm]

He's only saying it because, except for Grimm and Monk, this is a weak class.

[chuckflhp]

The thing that bothers me the most is the rule that they aren't allowed to take off the field conduct into consideration.

Art Monk was the prototype for the modern receiver.

irvin was the prototype for the modern,me first,drug busted loudmouth. He was a disgrace to football and will always be known more for his perpetuation of negative stereotypes.

Bet a lot of bengals look to him as a role model.....

Hail

[Cincycowboy]

The thing that bothers me the most is the rule that they aren't allowed to take off the field conduct into consideration.

Art Monk was the prototype for the modern receiver.

irvin was the prototype for the modern,me first,drug busted loudmouth. He was a disgrace to football and will always be known more for his perpetuation of negative stereotypes.

Bet a lot of bengals look to him as a role model.....

Hail

With all due respect, Monk's numbers are only higher because he played alot more games than Irvin. The funny thing is he still didn't score more with all the extra games. Irvin's career was cut short due to a neck injury. If you compare the per game averages, Monk simply was not better than Irvin. To be honest with you, I was surprised that Monk was that high on the stat sheet because he really was un noticed in most big games. I know that will make al you guys mad, but that is the real reason he is not in. That is the reason he won't be in this year.

[PCS]

With all due respect, Monk's numbers are only higher because he played alot more games than Irvin. The funny thing is he still didn't score more with all the extra games. Irvin's career was cut short due to a neck injury. If you compare the per game averages, Monk simply was not better than Irvin. To be honest with you, I was surprised that Monk was that high on the stat sheet because he really was un noticed in most big games. I know that will make al you guys mad, but that is the real reason he is not in. That is the reason he won't be in this year.

It's not just about numbers cincy, it's about impact. And one the Dallas writers who is a voter in the HOF is the one who said it. It has also been said that Art was Jerry Rice before there was a Jerry Rice. Certainly, where big, possession receivers are concerned, the same could easily be said about Art and Irvin. Art was Mike on the field before Mike ever got there. Now I have respect for Irvin as a player. Aside from his TD's, the man was a big, physical guy who would make the tough catches and was very good at downfield blocking. Coincidentally enough, so was Art. Before Mike. Keep that in mind before you say he was unnoticed in big games. There's much more to it than what you stated. And , just so you don't have to take it from me, try this.

Ronnie Lott, HOF inductee

"Art Monk was an example for Jerry Rice. That's what Jerry always told me."

"There's nothing negative to say. He has the numbers, the catches, the championships."

"You have a Hall of Fame for all it represents. I know he represents all that it's about. Integrity, love and passion for the game, community, what he gave back. Look how he conducted himself. Nobody I know deserves it more."

Bill Polian, President Indianapolis Colts

"I believe he's a Hall of Famer. I was a pro scout when he was playing, so it was my job to know who those guys were. I would put Art in that category, but apparently there are a lot of Hall of Fame voters who don't feel Art Monk was in that category. It's hard for me to believe they ever saw him play."

And this.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/peter_king/11/26/hof.receivers/1.html

"The Hall of Fame is about impact, not statistics,'' said one of the most responsible and conscientious voters in the room, longtime NFL writer Rick Gosselin of the Dallas Morning News. "Sometimes it's tricky separating the two. You can debate Monk, Irvin and Reed into the night. And we have. Clearly we haven't been able to come up with a consensus opinion on their impact in the game and where they fit historically. That doesn't mean the door has been closed on any of them.''

"I'm as old-school as football gets,'' Polian said. "I love offensive linemen. But no defensive coordinator ever made a gameplan that said, 'We've got to stop this guard to be able to win this game.' Defensive coordinators often say that about receivers and design gameplans to stop them. If you eliminated Irvin, Reed or Monk from any game, or you eliminated a guard for the same game, which do you think would be more impactful on the offense that day? Missing the receiver, of course. I'm simply incredulous as a football man that these receivers can't get in. There's no question in my mind they all should be in.''

In some ways I've been part of the problem. Even though Monk retired with the all-time receptions record, I've historically been anti-Monk for several reasons. He played 16 seasons and led his own team in receiving six times; only once was he voted first-team All-Pro. I questioned his impact on a team where the running game and Gary Clark, for many years, were the prime targets to stop by opposing defensive coordinators. I know. I watched the Giants do it nine times over four years against Washington. But last year, after a man I'd advocated got in (Harry Carson), veteran NFL writer Len Shapiro from the Washington Post e-mailed me and reminded me that everything Carson meant to the Giants, Monk meant to Washington. The leadership, the selflessness, the durable productivity ... all the same. I decided I should re-think my position.

As I made my rounds of training camps this year, I asked veteran coaches about Monk and the one word that kept coming up was "unselfish.'' His downfield blocking prowess kept coming up. His long-term numbers were almost Yastrzemski-like (one or two great years, lots of productive ones, very reliable). But when I talked to Joe Gibbs on Friday, the one thing that stood out was the body of work we don't see -- the downfield blocking, the quiet leadership, and this: Unlike his louder receiving mates Clark and Ricky Sanders, Monk, according to Gibbs, never once said he wanted the ball more. "We used him almost as a tight end a lot,'' said Gibbs, "and not only did he do it willingly, he was a great blocker for us. If he'd been a squeaky wheel, who knows how many catches Art would have had. But he cared about one thing -- the team.''

So many of the things Carson did can't be quantified. Similarly with Monk. Not only did he lead the NFL in all-time receptions when he retired, but he blocked superbly and was the most important locker-room influence on a three-time Super Bowl champion. I'm voting for him.

There is more if you feel like brushing up.