Skinsinparadise Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 playing off of that post. I dug up an article FROM 2004 -- that basically talked about how the Skins squander too many draft picks, go too hard in FA and will likely pay a price for it in 2006. In it they say that the Skins are old at the time they were the 10th oldest team in the league but Gibbs didn't think they were old enough. Well now they are the oldest team in the league so I guess Joe got what he wanted. Still interesting read considering it was in 04. The, April 12, 2004 by Dan Pompei Like $100 bills taken by the wind, the Redskins' draft picks are scattered across the NFL. There are two in Denver. One is in Jacksonville and another is in Chicago. You also can find one in New Orleans. The Redskins have only three draft picks, two fewer than the next closest team. It was a similar situation last year, when Washington drafted three players. This wouldn't be a problem if the Redskins were a team on the verge of winning a Super Bowl. But the last time they sniffed the postseason was 1999. Last season, only four teams had a worse record. Washington needs those picks as much as an athlete in training needs protein. The Dolphins also have played it fast and loose with their draft picks. There is a difference, though. The Dolphins have been an annual contender, looking for one or two players to put them over the top. It made sense to trade a 2005 second-round pick for quarterback A.J. Feeley, a sixth-round pick next year for receiver David Boston (if he makes the opening day roster), and a fifth-round pick this year for linebacker Junior Seau. It's difficult to criticize the Dolphins for trading a 2004 second-round pick for a 2003 third-round pick because they acquired their starting left tackle, Wade Smith, in the deal. "Draft picks have more value when you're trying to build a team than when you are a perennial winner,' says Falcons general manager Rich McKay, who stockpiled picks as he was building the Bucs and then traded away picks once the Bucs became an elite team. "When you're a better team, a perennial playoff team, they lose a little value because they are lower picks by nature, and it's harder for those guys to make the team. It's harder to make those later-round picks work because there aren't as many spots open)' The Super Bowl champion Patriots have seven picks in the first four rounds of the draft and 10 overall. They had 11 picks going into the 2003 draft. They ended up selecting 10 players, nine of whom are still on the roster. Patriots vice president of player personnel Scott Pioli is unconcerned about keeping all the players the Patriots draft. Pointing to injuries and other unpredictable factors, he says, "Having too many good players never has been a problem." Patriots coach Bill Belichick, however, has sought the counsel of former Cowboys coach Jimmy Johnson on the subject. Belichick says that because of a talented roster and excess picks, the Cowboys were unable to keep some players who became contributors elsewhere. "My only explanation to him is had we had injuries, those players would have been invaluable," Johnson says. If the Patriots determine that players they would draft in the middle to late rounds this year might not make their roster or improve their team, then it would be prudent to package picks to move up--or trade a pick this year for a pick in a higher round next year. During the 2003 draft, the Patriots traded a third-round pick to the Dolphins (used on Smith) for a second-round pick this year. Part of the Patriots' thinking, according to Pioli, was they believed the 2004 draft would have more depth than the 2003 draft. So if they draft well this year, they could acquire a player who might be a round and a half better than the one they would have selected with their third-round trading draft pick a year ago. Despite being a team problems, that is driven primarily by its head coach, New England has approached its draft choices as if it is as concerned with the long-term health of the franchise as it is with winning now. That is rare. That is admirable. What the Patriots have done is the equivalent of parents investing as much in their child's college education fund as they do in the family vacation fund. "You always have to have an infusion of young players who can contribute to keep you in good cap shape," says Pioli, who was named the SPORTING NEWS George Young NFL Executive of the Year for 2003. "If you are purely a veteran team, you won't be able to have a complete team." Draft picks don't take up as much cap space as older players and allow teams to invest more in premium veterans. "If you are confident you can pick the right players, I think draft picks are more valuable than ever," Johnson says. "If you can hit on your second-, third-, fourth-, fifth-round picks, it enables you to build your roster with lower-salaried players rather than trying to build with higher-priced free agents." Because the Redskins have chosen to invest heavily in veterans instead of draft picks, they could be in a crisis mode two years from now. Their payroll will be way over the salary cap, and they probably won't have enough good young players from the draft to bail them out. Coach Joe Gibbs doesn't see it that way. Gibbs says he actually is concerned the Redskins, who were the 10th-oldest team in the NFL on opening day last year with an average age of 26.7, might be too young. Without draft picks, the Redskins will get old quickly. And so might Gibbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRMADD Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 playing off of that post. I dug up an article FROM 2004 -- that basically talked about how the Skins squander too many draft picks, go too hard in FA and will likely pay a price for it in 2006. In it they say that the Skins are old at the time they were the 10th oldest team in the league but Gibbs didn't think they were old enough. . Did you know the Skins actually had the 4th-lowest payroll in the NFL in 2004? Despite what everyone says about Danny's open checkbook, the disastrous free agent signing have loaded the Skins with dead money so they can't actually use his checkbook. And it looks to get worse if the Skins try to jettison dead wood like AA or Lloyd -- either of them would result in $9 million in dead money either all in one year or spread over two. That's the price you pay for Snyderism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeGibbsThickandthin Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Cerrato has to go but Gibbs doesn't seem to be an innocent observer in our poor off season moves -- he's the team president and isn't shy to admit that he's involved in a big way with the off season. Listening to Gibbs, reading the Washington Post article, etc it seems like our front office works this way. Gibbs, Saunders, and Gregg Williams provides their wish list and stress how badley they want those players. Then Cerrato overpays in draft picks and Snyder overpays in signing bonuses. But it doesn't sound like its Cerrato foisting Archuletta for example on Gregg Williams and saying looking am getting this guy and letting Ryan Clark go -- I know you aren't going to like it but deal with it. Or Cerrato isn't going to Gibbs and saying look Brandon Lloyd is the man for our team I know your iffy on this but you'll see when you have him. It's Gibbs and the coaches who seem to be making the wish list and Cerrato and Synder are overzealous and overpay in getting the players that Gibbs says will get them over the top. I think Cerrato, Snyder AND Williams and Gibbs are all at fault here. Gibbs has said over and over again that the draft is a crap shoot, and he likes to get proven players and loves free agency. This has Gibbs' stamp on it too. And I love Gibbs the coach so don't mean to bash him but how can Gibbs escape from being part of the problem his finger prints are all over the off season moves. They traded a number 1 for Coles, 4 for Morton, 4 for Canidate the year before Gibbs came. They got rid of the draft way before Gibbs came. Sorry. Can not rip Gibbs for this approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 They traded a number 1 for Coles, 4 for Morton, 4 for Canidate the year before Gibbs came.They got rid of the draft way before Gibbs came. Sorry. Can not rip Gibbs for this approach. But you can rip Gibbs for not changing things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrell1106 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 You have a prime example of what an elite general manager can do for a team with the Washington Wizards. For years they had Wes Unseld (a very close friend of Abe Pollin) as their GM and they floundered badly. Then came Michael Jordan (a great player) and made him their GM. Just as bad.Then they hired Ernie Grunfield in June 2003 a proven winner in all aspects of being a GM. Look what a professional GM had done for them in just 3 years. We need a professional GM for the Redskins. No more "friends and family plans". :point2sky EXCELLENT POINT:applause: Hire the right guy and not just a good friend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Yes, I can't rip Gibbs for squandering picks before his tenure started but it hasn't changed one bit since he took over in that department I got to go through the numbers but I would guess it has gotten worse. Pre-Gibbs I recall the year where we drafted Ramsey that we traded down twice to pick up more picks. Arguably, the worst move involving trading draft picks was the Duckett move and Gibbs never backed off of the idea that he was the one who wanted to do it. Heck even his running back coach according to the Washington Post didn't deem the move necessary. Late in the season, I asked Gibbs on a John Riggins show about the Duckett move and he actually said it was a good trade. I've seen Gibbs over and over say that the draft is a crap shoot (including in this Monday's paper) in the context that its not its all hyped to be. I don't even a little believe that Gibbs is big into the draft but its Cerrato who forces Gibbs kicking and screaming to give up picks. It's all over the media that Gibbs is cool with trading picks and he hasn't really backed off of that stance publicly. I do think that Cerrato needs to go but I'd love to see Gibbs pull a Holmgren continue to coach but stop being the de facto GM or part of the GM by committee thing that reportedly goes on there. The whole front office system needs to be blown up in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeKings Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Marty Schottenheimer is a genius compared to Cerrato what a screw up that was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECU-ALUM Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Face it my fellow Skins fans....Vinny will be here next season...Snyder is not going to let such a valuble Yes-man...I mean football-guy out of his sight. He'll be here after Coach Gibbs is gone. As Redskins fans with Vinny & Dan calling the shots (face it ultimately they're doing everything Coach Gibbs just signs off on it) we are entering a very dark time. I'd give about anything for Snyder to do what Wayne Huizenga did yesterday...and say, "If anyone has any ideas let us know." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmorina69 Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Face it my fellow Skins fans....Vinny will be here next season...Snyder is not going to let such a valuble Yes-man...I mean football-guy out of his sight. He'll be here after Coach Gibbs is gone.As Redskins fans with Vinny & Dan calling the shots (face it ultimately they're doing everything Coach Gibbs just signs off on it) we are entering a very dark time. I'd give about anything for Snyder to do what Wayne Huizenga did yesterday...and say, "If anyone has any ideas let us know." I sure hope not , we will ahve to wait a long time for SB is Vinny sticks around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaDRoc Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 We just need a GM and better scouting, presumably brought on by the new GM. A GM would presumably overrule Vinny's rulings so we can actually make consistent accurate personnel decisions. But people are right when they say Vinny will be here for awhile. Him and Danny are real close, no way he leaves. All we can hope for is that he gets a reduced role. Otherwise this team will continue to struggle to attain the right players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick F. Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Vinny is an idiot. The whole skin's system of evaluation is retarded given the material that came out about Brandon Lloyd. The niner's were totally fed up with him and wanted to dump him in the worst way. I live in the SF Bay Area and any sports fan here knew he was a chump, why couldn't the skins find out that basic information? What a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsaddict Posted January 6, 2007 Author Share Posted January 6, 2007 If I owned the Redskins and my best friend was the "GM" and the team is as bad as it is these days? oh yeah, I would fire him. I mean damn, it ain't like the guy is going to be begging for change the next day. There is zero incentive to keep cerr-crappo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 From what we are to understand Gibbs and the coaching staff identify their needs on offense and defense, Cerrato gathers information on the top 5-10 players at each position in the offseason and then the staff reviews scouting reports and film on each and a grade is assigned. Then a discussion/decision is made based on the available information. Sounds to me as if this is a TOTAL system failure from top to bottom. Cerrato may not always be placing the BEST 5-10 players in front of all to review at any given position, but how can competent NFL coaches who have seen these players on the field and have the opportunity to review film on them do so poorly in projecting whether they can be a fit for the schemes they run? Just as importantly, how can an organization ignore the attitude problems and erratic behavior of a player like Brandon Lloyd? This guy by all accounts is one step away from being carried away by men in white coats as a paranoid 'everyone is conspiring against me' neurotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiswadeness Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 We need someone to tell Vinny to Stfu thats a bad idea, and he has no clue about footbal, and keep Danny boy calm in the off season. I was hoping that Coach Gibbs could do that, but I don't see It. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banks979 Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 From what we are to understand Gibbs and the coaching staff identify their needs on offense and defense, Cerrato gathers information on the top 5-10 players at each position in the offseason and then the staff reviews scouting reports and film on each and a grade is assigned. Then a discussion/decision is made based on the available information. Sounds to me as if this is a TOTAL system failure from top to bottom. Just as importantly, how can an organization ignore the attitude problems and erratic behavior of a player like Brandon Lloyd? I think that can be at least partially attributed to the lack of communication hinted at in the WaPo articles in all levels of the front office. Ceratto makes a highlight reel of the available free agents, Brandon Lloyd's once in a blue moon amazing catches dominated his, all coaches were impressed, noone takes the time to even make a phone call inquiry to San Fran about what kind of a person Lloyd is even though Gibbs specifically was against getting TO because of his attitute problems. (Same could have been said for Arch-highlight reel demonstrated amazing tackler, noone ever asked if he could cover) If anything blame should be assigned to all parties involved, but I can at least see where Gibbs and Williams were coming from. Despite Gibbs' formal title, both are inherently coaches not GM. Gibbs has even said as much that when he acquires players he is thinking who can help him out now not long term. All of this would be completely fine if we had anyone in the FO capable of competently meeting their needs. For that I ultimately blame Cerrato, as it is a GM's job to FULLY scout players not just highlight reels, and then assign a value to the player that won't be giving the other team a windfall or screwing the home team in the long run. Honestly free agency itself, while limiting in terms of how long and how many players you can sign, isn't inherently flawed even in the salary cap era. Pick up a couple of excellent unhearalded FA's on the cheap and you can have someone like Butler on the Wizards (or Marcus, or Shawn, or Griff-keeping this football). You absolutely 100% need to hit on the big players you do sign, however, or it could be a financial disaster. For sheer laziness alone Vinnie needs to go. He may not be pathologically stupid like Millen, but he is Really really REALLY bad at what he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeGibbsThickandthin Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Cerrato has been with Snyder from the start. It is hard to fire your best friend . Maybe they can reassign him to something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banks979 Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Cerrato has been with Snyder from the start. It is hard to fire your best friend .Maybe they can reassign him to something else. If the future of our franchise depends on whether or not a moron gets his feelings hurt. Man that's just sad....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGix2 Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Cerrato has very thick kneepads, and can hold his breath forever...As a matter of fact I heard he still hasn't gotten out from under Dan's desk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdowwe Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Itd be bad tension in the bedroom for him and Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGSKINS Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 I asking myself this question everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Happy Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 If I owned the Redskins and my best friend was the "GM" and the team is as bad as it is these days?oh yeah, I would fire him. I mean damn, it ain't like the guy is going to be begging for change the next day. There is zero incentive to keep cerr-crappo. Perhaps, but it's another thing to ask your boss to fire his best friend. That's a bold move for anybody in any situation. I'm not even sure Danny would do it. Vinny has him so snowed. Vinny has the power of a GM without any accountability. He's not going to give that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Vinny is the rare blind squirrel who can't find his own two nuts most of the time. No offense, but with eyes like that I seriously doubt he's anything approaching blind.:laugh: :logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 I'll just start expecting the worst and being surprised if anything positive ever happens. The Super Bowl is a mythical item at this point. It just isn't going to happen. Sorry to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huly Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 I am not a Cerrato fan at all but my question is this.......What exactly does he do to earn his paycheck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 I'm not as much of a proponent of us getting a GM as I am of us getting a scouting department. I'd at least like a front office full of people who have some experience in this field from a talent evaluation standpoint. Cerrato is not doing a good job right now, and we need to overhaul our scouting department even more than we need a GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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