Mike Williams v Carlos Rogers - a final conclusion, and more on our front office

[SkinsTillIDie]

Our front office has been lampooned here to no end in recent weeks for the offseason moves in recent years. Carlos Rogers has also especially taken heat for some spotty play at times.

Well, this brings me back to the fated 2005 draft, in which fans generally saw two options for the Redskins: draft Mike Williams, the tall possession reciever that everyone and their mothers felt we desperately needed (including much of the Washington media), or Carlos Rogers, a cornerback for the future who would in time replace Shawn Springs as our top corner.

Well, ladies and gents, fast forward a season and a half. Carlos Rogers had a good first year, had a bit of a letdown in his second year, a "sophomore slump" if you will. Dissapointing, yes, but he has certainly played better than the criticism he has recieved, and lets face it, is there ONE player that has played to his worth? Sean Taylor, Marcus Washington, Cornelius Griffin, Shawn Springs - even our players with pro bowl abilities have had vastly dissapointing seasons. Still, I don't have a doubt in my mind that the whole unit will be vastly improved next year without much added blood - but that's a different thread for a different day.

No, this thread is to bring to your attention the absolutely miserable career of Mike Williams, a TRUE bust by definition. For his career, he has 30 receptions for 357 yards.

He has 1 catch for 7 yards in 2006, and not due to injury either.

To put that in perspective, as noted by Len Pasquarelli, backup quarterback Josh McCown has twice as many receptions as does Williams.

McCown is a quarterback by trade, but has been pressed into playing wide receiver in recent weeks because offensive coordinator Mike Martz apparently doesn't have enough viable players at the position... And Mike Williams, according to Martz, is 20 pounds overweight and can barely get any snaps.

Yes, our front office has made mistakes in letting key players go. But whose hasn't? New England have made grave mistakes letting players go, most recently Deion Branch, who they desperately need this year. The Colts have certainly missed the abundance of talent they have groomed on defense.

Instead, let's give Joe Gibbs and company the praise they deserve in not succumbing to temptation and drafting a tall reciever with talent, much to the chagrin of the general Washington fanbase (See 2007; Calvin Johnson). Yes, hindsight is 20/20 and perhaps the team would be better off with the steroid-injecting Shawne Merriman or DeMarcus Ware. However, without Rogers, where would we be? Kenny Wright/Walt Harris would have been our number 1 cornerback for much of this season. That, or we would have signed some more high priced free agents to fill our void, and we all know how that would have probably turned out.

No, under Gibbs and company, we have built a foundation for years to come, with Campbell as our franchise quarterback - really the first one we've had in 14+ years - Chris Cooley as an all purpose H-back/tight end, Sean Taylor as a defensive playmaker, and hopefully Carlos Rogers as a shutdown cornerback.

We have had a good record drafting with what little picks we've had under this staff; just give these guys time. Someone here made a terrific point that in Tennesee, Gregg Williams drafted an outside linebacker with the 30th pick in the draft, and didn't start him at all his rookie year, playing him sparingly at best. That player is 6-3, 235 lbs, and his name is Keith Bulluck, arguably the best outside linebacker in the game today. Rocky McIntosh has faced a similar fate, and has nearly identical numbers (6-2, 231). Give him time as well, and I am certain that next year, we will have two tremendously talented and quick outside linebackers that will be able to rush the passer and stop the run more effectively than we have this year.

After all, this front office really hasn't made any glaring mistakes when it has come to actually drafting players for this franchise. And I trust that they will make the right decision in this draft as well, despite likely fan pleas to do otherwise.

[909997]

carlos rogers was a good draft pick

it could have been worse

giants traded philip rivers+1st round pick*shawne merriman* for eli manning

[robotfire]

giants traded philip rivers+1st round pick*shawne merriman* for eli manning

They need a GM!

People act like our front office have made blunder after blunder. What it really comes down to is Adam Archuletta was a mistake, and TJ Duckett was a waste of a third round draft pick. Sometimes people make an argument that Lloyd is no good, too (though I disagree). So that's three mistakes in three years. NOT BAD!

[ThreeKings]

Ummm...Carlos RoDgers has not played better than the criticism he has received. He sucks. He can't catch a ball and turnovers are needed to win games. We are last in turnovers thus we are 4-9.

The real question should be Shawne Merriman/Demarcus Ware vs Carlos RoDgers

[Rskins91]

I agree with you, and hope your right about Rocky McIntosh. Anyone remember Fred Smoot's second year? It was very disapointing. But what happened the next year? He came back strong as a very good corner. I see that happening with Rogers too.

But he seriously needs to work on his hands in the offseason.

[[[ghost]]]

Hell, Carlos Rogers has better hands than Williams.

Yea, I said it.

[MeNoRevs]

]']Hell' date=' Carlos Rogers has better hands than Williams.

Yea, I said it.[/quote']

Who he cut them off of?

[stwasm]

Given all the headaches Williams has caused, I still support the decision to draft Carlos Rogers. Watch! He'll be back and stronger next season. What cornerback doesn't have his share of woes. Darrell Green did. Deion Sanders did. Just be patient, folks. It's been a long year for everybody.

[Oldfan]

STID,

For me, the argument in your well-written post was not persuasive. That the front office passed over one player in the draft who turned out to be a bust and instead picked a player at a position of need who is fairly good, is weak as evidence.

We are now in the closing stages of the third year of Gibbs 2.0. We still don't have enough evidence on Jason Campbell to fairly evaluate his selection, but we have a much better idea of how several of the other transactions have panned out. In free agency and drafting, I see mixed results, I'd give the FO a C- grade. And that just isn't good enough if your goal is to build a team with top level talent.

Evaluating talent has been less a problem than our overall strategy on acquiring personnel. Joe Gibbs' modified George Allen approach defies logic. Today's NFL requires a bargain hunting strategy: building through the draft and making very careful moves to pick up players at bargain prices in free agency. The argument for this can be proven with math. In fact, there have been a couple of recent posts in this forum which have done just that.

Our letdown on defense this year is the direct result of a lack of roster depth. We can't afford injuries to our starters. The situation is a little better on offense, but we aren't deep in talent there either. Given the "modified George Allen" plan we're on, a thin roster is the predictable result.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Ummm...Carlos RoDgers has not played better than the criticism he has received. He sucks. He can't catch a ball and turnovers are needed to win games. We are last in turnovers thus we are 4-9.

The real question should be Shawne Merriman/Demarcus Ware vs Carlos RoDgers

Pssst its Rogers, no D in it

And yes, the big blunder was not picking up Merriman in that draft. He has developed into the pass rusher our D desperatley needs. Drafting Merriman allows you NOT to sign Carter, and maybe pick up a CB this past offseason, or gasp, keep Walt Harris for another year

[stwasm]

Pssst its Rogers, no D in it

And yes, the big blunder was not picking up Merriman in that draft. He has developed into the pass rusher our D desperatley needs. Drafting Merriman allows you NOT to sign Carter, and maybe pick up a CB this past offseason, or gasp, keep Walt Harris for another year

Isn't Merriman serving a steroids-induced suspension? He may be a force, but do you really want that distraction on your team?

[MeNoRevs]

Isn't Merriman serving a steroids-induced suspension? He may be a force, but do you really want that distraction on your team?

He already had his 4 game suspension and had 2 sacks and I believe 2 forced fumbles Sunday.

If he didnt get suspended this year, he would probably be up there as defensive player of the year front runner.

[Taylor 36]

It is unbelievable how many of the people who support Rogers are the same people who berated Brunell supporters. As has been proven, it was not Brunell's fault that the offense and this team were/are so bad.

Rogers, on the other hand, can take the credit for a lot of the defensive woes. Think of all the sustained drives that opposing offenses have had because CR let the ball go through his hands or bounce of his chest. How about all of the drives that have continued because he gets beat constantly even after giving the WR a fifteen yard cushion.

Sure, every player has had some bad games this year, but Rogers has one good play for every eight bad plays. He better do some serious work in the off season, or he needs to go.

[Byebye]

We didnt draft Merriman because we already had a tweener type in Arrington. We needed a CB, so we drafted one...

[H-O-G]

if Rogers would have caught the 5 int he dropped this season we would all be thinking a lot higher of him.

[armada58]

When it comes to drafting, The Redskins actually have a solid resume. Compare their resume equally with the other 31 teams and you'll see that we are doing pretty good. (Although I'm still upset that we passed on Steve Hutchinson to take Rod Gardner.)

McIntosh, Golston, Rogers, Campbell, Taylor, Cooley. Not too shabby. It's not perfect, but it ain't terrible neither.

[MeNoRevs]

When it comes to drafting, The Redskins actually have a solid resume. Compare their resume equally with the other 31 teams and you'll see that we are doing pretty good. (Although I'm still upset that we passed on Steve Hutchinson to take Rod Gardner.)

McIntosh, Golston, Rogers, Campbell, Taylor, Cooley. Not too shabby. It's not perfect, but it ain't terrible neither.

We dont know how McIntosh will be

Golston has played okay

Rogers has not played like a #9 pick

Campbell we dont know about yet

Taylor has had his ups and downs, on and off the field

Cooley is our only consistant pick here.

[Winslowalrob]

Isn't Merriman serving a steroids-induced suspension? He may be a force, but do you really want that distraction on your team?

Hate to break it to you, but every player in the NFL is juiced, even on the Redskins. That is hardly a distraction, and the Chargers went on a roll without him.

Excellent post TillIDie, I was rooting for Mike Williams back on draft day, but I would much rather have Rogers on our squad right now. Our drafting is pretty decent, we just never have any picks, our FA pickups last year were pretty awful (though before that, they were great: Springs, Griffin, Washington, Rabach, and I forget who else) and we NEVER retain our quality players at market value, preferring to let them walk and sign other players at massive salaries. That can easily be corrected in one offseason: just keep our good players, and do not sign anyone else unless they are an absolute bargain, even if they are "gasp" no-name schmoes.

[TheLongshot]

We are now in the closing stages of the third year of Gibbs 2.0. We still don't have enough evidence on Jason Campbell to fairly evaluate his selection, but we have a much better idea of how several of the other transactions have panned out. In free agency and drafting, I see mixed results, I'd give the FO a C- grade. And that just isn't good enough if your goal is to build a team with top level talent.

I think the Skins do a bit better than that. Portis, Washington, Griffin, Springs, Cooley ARE, Marshall, Taylor, Sellars are pretty strong choices. Yeah, there have been a choice or two that haven't worked out, but I'd say that Gibbs II has done a pretty decent job of aquiring talent.

Evaluating talent has been less a problem than our overall strategy on acquiring personnel. Joe Gibbs' modified George Allen approach defies logic. Today's NFL requires a bargain hunting strategy: building through the draft and making very careful moves to pick up players at bargain prices in free agency. The argument for this can be proven with math. In fact, there have been a couple of recent posts in this forum which have done just that.

There is a difference between a bargin and being cheap. The important thing is to get in the people that you need to move your team forward. The Skins have gone out and tried to get those people. Fact is, when Gibbs got this team, it was in pretty bad shape. Other than the offensive line, just about every position needed to be turned over. Some of it has to do with attitude as well as talent.

Our letdown on defense this year is the direct result of a lack of roster depth. We can't afford injuries to our starters. The situation is a little better on offense, but we aren't deep in talent there either. Given the "modified George Allen" plan we're on, a thin roster is the predictable result.

I think the offense is in much better shape than the defense as far as depth. Other than TE, I feel comfortable with our depth.

And no, I don't think our downfall on defense is purely depth in the end, since it was returning starters who struggled.

And yes, the big blunder was not picking up Merriman in that draft. He has developed into the pass rusher our D desperatley needs. Drafting Merriman allows you NOT to sign Carter, and maybe pick up a CB this past offseason, or gasp, keep Walt Harris for another year

Merriman is a LB, and it required a crystal ball to predict that Lavar wasn't going to work out here, which you couldn't make that call at the time. Isn't it wonderful to have the vision of hindsight?

Jason

[#1njskinsfan]

But he seriously needs to work on his hands in the offseason.

if he does nothing this offseason he needs to sit at a jugs machine for 100 balls a day!

A DAY 100 A DAY!!!

[CRAZYHORSE19682003]

I agree with you, and hope your right about Rocky McIntosh. Anyone remember Fred Smoot's second year? It was very disapointing. But what happened the next year? He came back strong as a very good corner. I see that happening with Rogers too.

But he seriously needs to work on his hands in the offseason.

Champ Bailey had a bad 2nd year, heck even the immortial Darryl Green had bad years, it happens but you don't give up on people after one bad year.

[CRAZYHORSE19682003]

Also Shawn Merriman is surrounded by talent along the front 7 in San Diego, Talent we jsut can't match. Put Merriman on our team and he wouldn't be the all world beater he is right now.

[Merlin Emrys]

As has been proven, it was not Brunell's fault that the offense and this team were/are so bad.

This is off topic, but how do you figure? Where's the evidence? It wasn't all Brunell's fault, but Brunell was a big part of it. The team still isn't winning, but the offense has been a lot more consistent since JC took over.

[Cooley4President]

When it comes to drafting, The Redskins actually have a solid resume. Compare their resume equally with the other 31 teams and you'll see that we are doing pretty good. (Although I'm still upset that we passed on Steve Hutchinson to take Rod Gardner.)

McIntosh, Golston, Rogers, Campbell, Taylor, Cooley. Not too shabby. It's not perfect, but it ain't terrible neither.

I don't think we've done as bad as alot of people think, but also look at the number of players drafted recently that are no longer on the team. Last I checked, Campbell and Rogers are the only 2 players from the 2005 draft that are even left on the team. I understand that we use free agency for alot of roster spots and that we didn't have a second or 3rd round pick that year, but to have 2/3 of your draft class off the team after a year and a half is pretty tough.

[armada58]

We dont know how McIntosh will be

Golston has played okay

Rogers has not played like a #9 pick

Campbell we dont know about yet

Taylor has had his ups and downs, on and off the field

Cooley is our only consistant pick here.

The caveat to my essertion was that we compare our drafts with the other 31 teams.