Mike Williams v Carlos Rogers - a final conclusion, and more on our front office

[Pungopal]

Rodgers is the most reliable CB we have. Springs has hardly made it through a full season in his entire career. The rest of the CB group together don't even compare, Wright, Rumph, Jimoh, etc. He'll get better.

As for Mike Williams, Ha. We missed the same boat years ago. We could of had Warren Sapp instead of Michael Westbrook. Also, there was another WR named Desmond that was a total bust. We could of drafted Terrell Buckley CB, Marco Coleman DE, or even Chester McGlockton DT. Stay away from overrated WR's and draft defense.

Look at the teams heading into the playoffs and tell me how many have big name receivers that were drafted in the early rounds.

Rodgers was a good pick.

[Stonoman]

Rogers stinks!!

[Juice6182]

Still really ticks me off DeMarcus Ware and Shawn Merriman were drafted after Carlos Rogers.:applause: Another fine decision.

I was having a bad week at work, so I went out and bought yellow gloves to try and fix my problems. Guess what Carlos - it didn't work.

[Dan T.]

Go easy on Carlos. His hands aren't that bad if you consider they were both amputated in a wood shop accident his sophomore year at Auburn, then reattached in a 26-hour microsurgery at the Auburn Medical Center. He's still working to regain full range of movement and feeling in both hands.

[Oldfan]

Jason -- I think the Skins do a bit better than that. Portis, Washington, Griffin, Springs, Cooley ARE, Marshall, Taylor, Sellars are pretty strong choices. Yeah, there have been a choice or two that haven't worked out, but I'd say that Gibbs II has done a pretty decent job of aquiring talent.

I thought I was generous with the C- grade. I see it this way: from the 2003 roster, give me Ramsey, Betts, Coles, Samuels, Dockery, Thomas and Jansen on the offense. Give me Trotter, Pierce, Marshall and Smoot on the defense and a few other useful players like Albright and Cartwright. Then give me a good GM like A.J. Smith or Scott Pioli and all the draft picks we have dealt away.

With a first-rate GM and emphasis on the draft, I have no doubt we'd be in better shape today. So, do we stick to this plan for two more years? I hope not.

[nebster21]

For those bashing Carlos Rodgers. If he could catch don't you think he would be a WR.

[Warhead36]

I don't think Merriman or Ware would be nearly as good in our system because we don't run a 3-4. In a 4-3 the OLB is much more limited in what he can do than in a 3-4.

The best plan of action would have been to re-sign Smoot and trade down a couple of times to draft Campbell. Then again this FO doesn't exactly have much oversight.

[MRMADD]

Yes, our front office has made mistakes in letting key players go. But whose hasn't? New England have made grave mistakes letting players go, most recently Deion Branch, who they desperately need this year.

You're actually comparing our front office to the Patriots... favorably? You must have missed this: your "desperate" Patriots are 9-4 and and have a two game lead atop their division. It's mindboggling that you'd compare the two front offices.

Instead, let's give Joe Gibbs and company the praise they deserve in not succumbing to temptation and drafting a tall reciever with talent, much to the chagrin of the general Washington fanbase (See 2007; Calvin Johnson). Yes, hindsight is 20/20 and perhaps the team would be better off with the steroid-injecting Shawne Merriman or DeMarcus Ware. ...

No, under Gibbs and company, we have built a foundation for years to come

Foundation? What foundation? This roster is a house of cards. Let's take a look:

OL: Aging line with no depth. Probably need two new tackles in the next 3 years.

DL: No pass rush. Serviceable interior rotation. Need a new DE and new DT in the next 3 years.

LB: One real LB, Washington, who'll be 30 next year. Need two new LBs now.

DB: Need a replacement for Springs and some depth.

That's 7 starters. Couple that with the lack of depth across the roster, and you've got quite a few holes.

After all, this front office really hasn't made any glaring mistakes ...

Oh, I get it! You're being sarcastic! Whew... I thought you actually believed this stuff!

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Hey! We don't completely and utterly blow a top ten pick.

Break out the champagne.

[Slateman]

I don't think Merriman or Ware would be nearly as good in our system because we don't run a 3-4. In a 4-3 the OLB is much more limited in what he can do than in a 3-4.

The best plan of action would have been to re-sign Smoot and trade down a couple of times to draft Campbell. Then again this FO doesn't exactly have much oversight.

We didnt draft Merriman because we already had a tweener type in Arrington. We needed a CB, so we drafted one...

I disagree with both of you regarding Merriman. I still believe he could have played defensive end. At worst, he would have been Dwight Freeney. Frankly, I think he was better than that.

carlos rogers was a good draft pick

it could have been worse

giants traded philip rivers+1st round pick*shawne merriman* for eli manning

And the Chargers got one of their better defensive linemen in Luis Castillo. Never said Shotty was a bad draft guy . .

Before you go judging Mike Williams, remember, he missed a full year of any football at all. Maurice Clarett ended up out of shape as well. I don't think Mike Williams has an attitude problem, but I do think he needs to be pushed. Thats something that hadn't happened to him till this year. I honestly think Mike Williams can turn it around, but Mike Martz will have to get his head out of his butt and realize how to use a big, physical receiver.

[TheLongshot]

I don't think we've done as bad as alot of people think, but also look at the number of players drafted recently that are no longer on the team. Last I checked, Campbell and Rogers are the only 2 players from the 2005 draft that are even left on the team. I understand that we use free agency for alot of roster spots and that we didn't have a second or 3rd round pick that year, but to have 2/3 of your draft class off the team after a year and a half is pretty tough.

In addition to Campbell and Rogers, Nemo and McCune are on the practice squad, and White is on IR.

With a first-rate GM and emphasis on the draft, I have no doubt we'd be in better shape today. So, do we stick to this plan for two more years? I hope not.

I hope so, because part of the problem this organization has had is not sticking to a plan. We have been hurt more by changing plans all the time than sticking to one.

Now, I don't think the heavy FA spending and the trading of draft picks will continue, mainly because this team now has a good core of players which it can work with. Has the organization made mistakes? Sure. But, I like the players we have for the most part.

Jason

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

When it comes to drafting, The Redskins actually have a solid resume. Compare their resume equally with the other 31 teams and you'll see that we are doing pretty good. (Although I'm still upset that we passed on Steve Hutchinson to take Rod Gardner.)

McIntosh, Golston, Rogers, Campbell, Taylor, Cooley. Not too shabby. It's not perfect, but it ain't terrible neither.

So, we have five good home-grown players, one of whom does not play.

[TheLongshot]

OL: Aging line with no depth. Probably need two new tackles in the next 3 years.

Unless Jansen still has injury problems next year, I don't really see many changes on the offensive line. We pretty much have Samuels for the rest of his career. As for depth, until it plays, you don't know what kind of depth we have. Personally, I think we have better depth this year than we did last year.

DL: No pass rush. Serviceable interior rotation. Need a new DE and new DT in the next 3 years.

I'd say just a DE. I think our depth at DT is pretty good, actually. If Montgomery develops into a good hole-plugger, I feel quite good about it.

LB: One real LB, Washington, who'll be 30 next year. Need two new LBs now.

One of which is sitting on the bench waiting to go in. So, just one more LB.

DB: Need a replacement for Springs and some depth.

If you replace Springs as a starter, he provides good depth all by himself.

So, I count 3, maybe 4 starters needed in the next three years. Very doable, considering that we could live with some guys in their current position.

Jason

[RedskinzOwnU]

I too wanted rogers. Unfortunately, I too thought the choice was between Rogers and Williams. However, I now know that neither were worthy picks . The best players available on the board went to teams a few picks later.

[DCsportsfan53]

Mike Williams or Carlos? I wanted us to do the same thing we SHOULD have done and I've wanted them to do for ****ing years.....finally get a pass rusher. I was on the Merriman bandwagon, especially with him playing right around the area. There's just no excuse for letting a guy like that slip away, a potential once in a generation type of player.

[Oldfan]

Jason: ....because part of the problem this organization has had is not sticking to a plan. We have been hurt more by changing plans all the time than sticking to one.

It's smart to stick to a plan that is working. It's stupid to stick to a plan that isn't.

If you think the current plan is working, then you will be in favor of sticking with it. But, the argument that we need to stick for the sake of sticking to it is bogus.

Sound plans make sense and usually show results right away. The Jets are duplicating the Patriots plan. They've made a quick turnaround. But even if they backslide, they'll stick with it because it makes sense and they're seeing results.

[llcamino]

However, without Rogers, where would we be? Kenny Wright/Walt Harris would have been our number 1 cornerback for much of this season.

Walt Harris 6 INT's

Kenny Wright 1 INT

Carlos Rodgers 0 INT's.

You were saying???

I hated Walt Harris, and I know there's more upside to Rodgers theoretically, but I just found that statement odd the way we have been struggling for turnovers.

[chow184]

Ummm...Carlos RoDgers has not played better than the criticism he has received. He sucks. He can't catch a ball and turnovers are needed to win games. We are last in turnovers thus we are 4-9.

The real question should be Shawne Merriman/Demarcus Ware vs Carlos RoDgers

I'm pretty sure now your just a cowboys fan

[Chump Bailey]

Also Shawn Merriman is surrounded by talent along the front 7 in San Diego, Talent we jsut can't match. Put Merriman on our team and he wouldn't be the all world beater he is right now.

Ahh, but if you were to add Costello to the mix, which we could have done, it would have made all the difference in the world to this defense in all likelihood. Three high picks for Jason who is still very much an unknown commodity or two solid impact players in Merriman and Costello. Sure, we can have the hindsight argument which is worth mentioning, but if the coaches were watching the same film I saw of these two guys (add Ware to the mix also) - no way am I passing on up them...

[#98QBKiller]

carlos rogers was a good draft pick

it could have been worse

giants traded philip rivers+1st round pick*shawne merriman* for eli manning

I'm sure they are smacking themselves right now too.

[Riggins Seventy Chip]

People act like our front office have made blunder after blunder. What it really comes down to is Adam Archuletta was a mistake, and TJ Duckett was a waste of a third round draft pick. Sometimes people make an argument that Lloyd is no good, too (though I disagree). So that's three mistakes in three years. NOT BAD!

3 in 3 years? How about at least 6 this year alone?:

1. Adam Archuletta signing

2. TJ Duckett trade

3. Lloyd trade

4. Carter signing

5. Not keeping Ryan Clark

6. Not keeping Walt Harris

How about 2 glaring ones last year?:

1. Not keeping Pierce (weakening two positions: MLB and WLB and costing us draft picks to move up to McIntosh)

2. Not keeping Smoot (costing us a chance at a top DE by forcing us to take Rogers)

Some other highlights:

How about trading a draft pick for Brunell?

Moving up to take Campbell?

Trading Champ Bailey AND a #2 for Portis?

Generally, how about wasting valuable cap space for marginal free agents?

How about trading valuable draft picks for marginal players?

Would you still say "3 mistakes in 3 years?"

[Chump Bailey]

3 in 3 years? How about at least 6 this year alone?:

:applause:

[Chump Bailey]

Mike Williams or Carlos? I wanted us to do the same thing we SHOULD have done and I've wanted them to do for ****ing years.....finally get a pass rusher. I was on the Merriman bandwagon, especially with him playing right around the area. There's just no excuse for letting a guy like that slip away, a potential once in a generation type of player.

:applause:

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

3 in 3 years? How about at least 6 this year alone?:

1. Adam Archuletta signing

2. TJ Duckett trade

3. Lloyd trade

4. Carter signing

5. Not keeping Ryan Clark

6. Not keeping Walt Harris

How about 2 glaring ones last year?:

1. Not keeping Pierce (weakening two positions: MLB and WLB and costing us draft picks to move up to McIntosh)

2. Not keeping Smoot (costing us a chance at a top DE by forcing us to take Rogers)

Some other highlights:

How about trading a draft pick for Brunell?

Moving up to take Campbell?

Trading Champ Bailey AND a #2 for Portis?

Generally, how about wasting valuable cap space for marginal free agents?

How about trading valuable draft picks for marginal players?

Would you still say "3 mistakes in 3 years?"

I calculate it by the number of players/picks we sacrifice to bring in other players. We are never adding players.

Lloyd was two draft picks.

Campbell was three.

Portis was a draft pick plus a player.

Brunell was a draft pick.

McIntosh was two draft picks.

Duckett was a draft pick.

That's 11 players for 6 players - three of whom (Lloyd, Brunell, and Duckett) are not starters. In a league were depth is the most important thing you can have, that's madness.

[Rskins06]

This is off topic, but how do you figure? Where's the evidence? It wasn't all Brunell's fault, but Brunell was a big part of it. The team still isn't winning, but the offense has been a lot more consistent since JC took over.

yes, you are right, the offense has been consistent, we have been consistent in lacking the ability to score TD's. Since JC took over, we scored on average 16 pts per game, hell, we have had a RB run for over 100 yards the last 3 games and how many TD's has he scored (which by the way in other threads has been annointed the starter next year over Portis, give me a break). The last time the offense put up over 400 yards of offense, MB was the QB and we scored over 35 points per game and won both. Our defense has been horrible all year....period. Didn't matter what the offense did, the defense let this team down. They consistently drop INT's (at least 2 last Sunday), and can't stop anyone on 3rd down, maybe if the corners played up instead of giving 10 yard cushions on 3rd and 2 they could put the offense back on the field.

Next year will be better, JC will have 7 games under his belt, the offense will be improved, hopefully, we don't let anymore "core" redskins go and stay with the same offensive and defensive schemes, yes, that would be a change in itself as every year this team tries to reinvent the wheel.