LarryBrownsFan Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 You know, I would think this would be a no-brainer. And the answer would be, "Of course not! What's the matter with you?" But maybe I'm wrong. The reason this question even comes to mind is that I've just read, for the umpteenth time, someone speculating that maybe Jason Campbell will become some kind of "black Big Ben." I suppose there's two ways of looking at this. On the one hand there's the role model thing. Where kids are better able to emulate those with whom they can best identify. And that they aspire to what they believe is possible. But is skin color still a significant factor in determining which sports heros you identify with and in determining what you believe is possible for yourself athletically? I don't know. It's not for me, but I'm a fifty year old white guy. I don't think I'm exactly the target audience for the whole role modeling thing here. On the other hand, there's the judge me not by the color of my skin, but by the content of my character (or by my performance in my chosen profession) thing. Prefixing the skin color adjective when its not obviously pertinent just seems to be at odds with that idea. Adding the skin color adjective seems to suggest that that's an important thing to consider when evaluating the rest of the statement. But how is skin color important when you're trying to predict how well an individual is going to play quarterback? It strikes me as offensive to imply that it does. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 It only matters cause people keep bringing it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamingwolf Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 theres definately racists out there that will only respect players that share their race, but over all if your good your good if your not your not and people like good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I don't know if saying the "black Big Ben" means that color matters. It's just pointing out that Jason Campbell is black. There's nothing wrong with pointing out someone's race - I mean it tends to be written across your face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 i think this belongs in the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 The only colors that matter in football are on the uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 wow, this is great.. Im writing a paper on this issue right now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurrayH81 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 the only thing having to do with color and quarterbacks is --- "is our starting QB yellow?" /hail:helmet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 If certain people identify with Jason Campbell as a positive role model in part because of the color of his skin, then that's fine with me. As far as judging his character or potential or anything else for that matter due to the color of his skin, it's just simply absurd, and I really don't see a need for continued discussion of the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Racial staking is defined as the “racialized notions of the mind and the body continue to operate within sporting cultures to the point where various positions are defined solely by race.(Abdel-Shehid)” This process involves moving black players to positions which many consider “athletic” and “physical” such as running back or wide-receiver while moving white players to positions that usually require intelligence such as quarterback. According to the NFL’s official website, seven starting quarterbacks are African-Americans. This is certainly improvement in the areas of racial staking since the early 1970s when only less than 1% of quarterbacks were African-Americans. In contrast, today over 90% of all running backs, defensive backs and wide-receivers are black. The debate on racial staking often sparks the issue regarding the black quarterback. During the late 1990s, the so called “golden age” of black quarterbacks featured young stars such as Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb and Daunte Culpepper. These quarterbacks did not oblige to the social norm of quarterbacks this is what i have so far.. im discussing whether racism still exists in the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander_N_Chief Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I could care less if you're green so long as you get my team to the Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Its funny though...Campbell was on the radio the other day, and he said as soon as the news got out, he got a call from Donovan McNabb and Steve McNair offering him congratualtions on his promotion. I wonder if they called Phillip Rivers too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Ask Jimmy the Greek! LOL This discussion is old and tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 How would it matter? Can someone answer that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twenty-eight Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Its funny though...Campbell was on the radio the other day, and he said as soon as the news got out, he got a call from Donovan McNabb and Steve McNair offering him congratualtions on his promotion. I wonder if they called Phillip Rivers too? I'm not sure about Mcnabb but Campbell has been friends with Mcnair since he was in high school. He went to Mcnair's Qb camp and they've been in touch ever since Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I'm not sure about Mcnabb but Campbell has been friends with Mcnair since he was in high school. He went to Mcnair's Qb camp and they've been in touch ever since He also has as one of his mentors Doug Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryBrownsFan Posted November 17, 2006 Author Share Posted November 17, 2006 How would it matter? Can someone answer that? I don't know if I can answer that. But it's at least possible that it could matter to young black athletes aspiring to be nfl quarterbacks. That was the point of the "on the one hand" paragraph. For example, would it have made a difference to Jason Campbell's career if Steve McNair were white? Possibly. Intuitively, it seems like it might have, but I don't know that for a fact. I think it's at least possible that Steve McNair's skin color, as well as his achievements on the football field, motivated Jason Campbell, in particular, to be a better quarterback. And if that is the case, then the quarterback's color did matter, in that respect. For ways that is doesn't matter, see the "on the other hand" paragraph. So, what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twenty-eight Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 He also has as one of his mentors Doug Williams. Yup, thats why he wears #17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stwasm Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 The reason this question even comes to mind is that I've just read, for the umpteenth time, someone speculating that maybe Jason Campbell will become some kind of "black Big Ben." That idiot Steve Czaban said that! First off, he's a clown to begin with and, anything he says, has to be taken with a grain of salt. All he had to do was compare his favorably to Ben Roethlisberger instead of making that moronic statement. It just shows that it's still an issue with some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I don't know if I can answer that.But it's at least possible that it could matter to young black athletes aspiring to be nfl quarterbacks. That was the point of the "on the one hand" paragraph. For example, would it have made a difference to Jason Campbell's career if Steve McNair were white? Possibly. Intuitively, it seems like it might have, but I don't know that for a fact. I think it's at least possible that Steve McNair's skin color, as well as his achievements on the football field, motivated Jason Campbell, in particular, to be a better quarterback. And if that is the case, then the quarterback's color did matter, in that respect. For ways that is doesn't matter, see the "on the other hand" paragraph. So, what do you think? I'm still not sure what you're trying to accomplish with this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I don't know if I can answer that.But it's at least possible that it could matter to young black athletes aspiring to be nfl quarterbacks. That was the point of the "on the one hand" paragraph. For example, would it have made a difference to Jason Campbell's career if Steve McNair were white? Possibly. Intuitively, it seems like it might have, but I don't know that for a fact. I think it's at least possible that Steve McNair's skin color, as well as his achievements on the football field, motivated Jason Campbell, in particular, to be a better quarterback. And if that is the case, then the quarterback's color did matter, in that respect. For ways that is doesn't matter, see the "on the other hand" paragraph. So, what do you think? I think the days of a black QB being a novelty are gone. Warren Moon, Doug Williams, and Randall Cunningham may have had a tougher time, but nowadays, teams just want to win. Of 32 teams, i count 8 starting QB's that are black. Campbell, Culpep (well, he was starting), Seneca Wallace, Vick, McNabb, Vince Young, McNair, and Charlie Batch. Thats 1/4. Mike Vick does some amazing things, but i cant stand it when people see a black QB and immediately think "scrambler." Thats such BS. Jason Campbell is NOT going to beat people with his legs. Hes more mobile than a Peyton Manning, but he's not a QB in the Vick mold. Neither is Byron Leftwich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryBrownsFan Posted November 17, 2006 Author Share Posted November 17, 2006 stwasm: "That idiot Steve Czaban said that! First off, he's a clown to begin with and, anything he says, has to be taken with a grain of salt. All he had to do was compare his favorably to Ben Roethlisberger instead of making that moronic statement. It just shows that it's still an issue with some people." Zen-like Todd: "I'm still not sure what you'r e trying to accomplish with this thread." Actually, Todd, I started off just blowin off steam because that idiot Steve Czaban's moronic statement (you got it right, stwasm) rubbed me the wrong way. But then I got to thinking about it, which I sometimes do before I post, and it occurred to me that it's not a clear cut issue. And I wanted to share my thoughts with some friends and get some feedback. Not trying to cause any problems. I was going to post this in the Stadium section, but decided to post here instead. My impression is that although the Tailgate posters may be more opinionated, in general, they also tend to think things through a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 u guys care to read what i wrote in my essay Racial staking is defined as the “racialized notions of the mind and the body continue to operate within sporting cultures to the point where various positions are defined solely by race.(Abdel-Shehid, 2005)” This process involves moving black players to positions which many consider “athletic” and “physical” such as running back or wide-receiver while moving white players to positions that usually require intelligence such as quarterback. According to the NFL’s official website, seven starting quarterbacks are African-Americans. This is certainly improvement in the areas of racial staking since the early 1970s when only less than 1% of quarterbacks were African-Americans (Woodward, 2004). In contrast, today over 90% of all running backs, defensive backs and wide-receivers are black. The debate on racial staking often sparks the issue regarding the black quarterback. During the late 1990s, the so called “golden age” of black quarterbacks featured young stars such as Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb and Daunte Culpepper. These quarterbacks did not oblige to the social norm and do not fit the typical role of a drop back, scan the field and stay in the pocket quarterback. Yet, still the majority of these quarterbacks is still judge and criticized for expanding the role of the quarterback. Abdel-Sheid concludes that “as black quarterbacks move into positions of powers, there will be a tension around questions of containment versus freer forms of expression (pg. 123).” Michael Vick has been scrutinized since being drafted to play quarterback for the Atlanta Falcons feel free to comment and add what you think.. im stil working on this paper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Its funny though...Campbell was on the radio the other day, and he said as soon as the news got out, he got a call from Donovan McNabb and Steve McNair offering him congratualtions on his promotion. I wonder if they called Phillip Rivers too? Charlie Frye also called him so I don't know if it means much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Mike Vick does some amazing things, but i cant stand it when people see a black QB and immediately think "scrambler." Thats such BS. Jason Campbell is NOT going to beat people with his legs. Hes more mobile than a Peyton Manning, but he's not a QB in the Vick mold. Neither is Byron Leftwich.Yeah, that has bugged me a little bit. People have been saying how we had to bench Brunell and put in Campbell because he would be more mobile, but Campbell really wasn't much of a running QB. His senior year at Auburn he gained 30 yards rushing all year. I know they count rushing stats differently in college, but Brunell already had 28 yards rushing this year. It's not hard to be more mobile than Brunell, but Campbell isn't going to be picking up a whole lot of first downs with his legs. He'll probably be less mobile than Tony Romo sits to pee, who everyone seems to be pointing at as an example of why we had to make a switch.I think race definitely plays into why people think Campbell is some kind of running quarterback, but I don't think Czaban's "black Big Ben" comment is all that big a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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