Does the Quarterback's Color Matter?

[LarryBrownsFan]

u guys care to read what i wrote in my essay

feel free to comment and add what you think.. im stil working on this paper

I don't know Abdel-Sheid. What position does he play?

Just kidding. I don't usually criticize grammar, but since you're working on an academic paper, you should probably look at that.

What's the thesis of your essay? I know I just got finished telling Zenn-like Todd that I was just blowing off steam and bouncing some thoughts off some friends, but I don't think your professor's going to let you get away with that.

[rincewind]

How would it matter? Can someone answer that?

I think the problem is that it seems to matter, because most black QBs play a certain style. Most black QBs are scramblers, with strong arms, and seem to have less than good accuracy (don't believe me? McNabb, Vick, McNair, Cunningham...). So it becomes a stereotype - unfortunately the stereotype has been tied to color. That's why it'll be great when Campbell comes out and is accurate and doesn't scramble much. Then goes on to win the SB and bust up the stereotype.

[skinfan2k]

abdul-shied is a professional source who suggests that racial staking still occurs in the league

my thesis is: Despite, the racial diversity that exists in contemporary US sports particularly the National Football League (NFL), this does not justify that we live in a post-racist society.

please comment if u see any grammar mistakes

[skinfan2k]

my first few pages discuss the coaching hires/Gm hires and the lack of black owners/front office

[Zguy28]

Yeah, that has bugged me a little bit. People have been saying how we had to bench Brunell and put in Campbell because he would be more mobile, but Campbell really wasn't much of a running QB. His senior year at Auburn he gained 30 yards rushing all year. I know they count rushing stats differently in college, but Brunell already had 28 yards rushing this year. It's not hard to be more mobile than Brunell, but Campbell isn't going to be picking up a whole lot of first downs with his legs. He'll probably be less mobile than Tony Romo sits to pee, who everyone seems to be pointing at as an example of why we had to make a switch.

He ran a 4.7 40 from what I understand. And oh yeah, he will pick up that First on 3rd and 4 instead of trying to pass it.

[DCsportsfan53]

Yeah, that has bugged me a little bit. People have been saying how we had to bench Brunell and put in Campbell because he would be more mobile, but Campbell really wasn't much of a running QB. His senior year at Auburn he gained 30 yards rushing all year. I know they count rushing stats differently in college, but Brunell already had 28 yards rushing this year. It's not hard to be more mobile than Brunell, but Campbell isn't going to be picking up a whole lot of first downs with his legs. He'll probably be less mobile than Tony Romo sits to pee, who everyone seems to be pointing at as an example of why we had to make a switch.

I think what's much more important than rushing yards and what Brunell has shown not to be able to do anymore, is the mobility within the pocket. Will Campbell be laterally mobile so he can sidestep rushes? I think one of the biggest things we'll gain from Campbell is finally having a QB who will take a hit to deliver the ball when a guy's open rather than sacrifing the play to avoid the hit and a guy who can buy time in the pocket when things breakdown. Brunell's pocket escapability and presence have been very poor this year and hopefully that's something we'll see a dramatic improvement on. I like Brunell and all but man was it frustrating to see so many plays left on the field because he just couldn't do it without perfect protection and lots of time.

[H-O-G]

For any white person reading this thread when you were a kid, how many times have you looked up to say....a Michael Jordan, pretend to be him while shooting with your friends. Color doesn't affect my judgement on who I idolize as athletes.

[rincewind]

Yeah, that has bugged me a little bit. People have been saying how we had to bench Brunell and put in Campbell because he would be more mobile, but Campbell really wasn't much of a running QB. His senior year at Auburn he gained 30 yards rushing all year. I know they count rushing stats differently in college, but Brunell already had 28 yards rushing this year. It's not hard to be more mobile than Brunell, but Campbell isn't going to be picking up a whole lot of first downs with his legs. He'll probably be less mobile than Tony Romo sits to pee, who everyone seems to be pointing at as an example of why we had to make a switch.

I think race definitely plays into why people think Campbell is some kind of running quarterback, but I don't think Czaban's "black Big Ben" comment is all that big a deal.

He ran a 4.7 40 from what I understand. And oh yeah, he will pick up that First on 3rd and 4 instead of trying to pass it.

I think what's much more important than rushing yards and what Brunell has shown not to be able to do anymore, is the mobility within the pocket. Will Campbell be laterally mobile so he can sidestep rushes? I think one of the biggest things we'll gain from Campbell is finally having a QB who will take a hit to deliver the ball when a guy's open rather than sacrifing the play to avoid the hit and a guy who can buy time in the pocket when things breakdown. Brunell's pocket escapability and presence have been very poor this year and hopefully that's something we'll see a dramatic improvement on. I like Brunell and all but man was it frustrating to see so many plays left on the field because he just couldn't do it without perfect protection and lots of time.

Alright you guys take the crap to the Stadium. We're here to figure out if these guys were black QBs their whole lives, or if they were white in high school. :laugh:

For any white person reading this thread when you were a kid, how many times have you looked up to say....a Michael Jordan, pretend to be him while shooting with your friends. Color doesn't affect my judgement on who I idolize as athletes.

Nope. Chris Mullen all the way baby!

[DjTj]

He ran a 4.7 40 from what I understand. And oh yeah, he will pick up that First on 3rd and 4 instead of trying to pass it.

I think what's much more important than rushing yards and what Brunell has shown not to be able to do anymore, is the mobility within the pocket. Will Campbell be laterally mobile so he can sidestep rushes? I think one of the biggest things we'll gain from Campbell is finally having a QB who will take a hit to deliver the ball when a guy's open rather than sacrifing the play to avoid the hit.

I think that's definitely true, and I guess it's hard for any of us to predict if and when he might run for a first down, but I think we can all agree he'll do it more than Brunell. I mean, right now, Jon Jansen is probably more mobile than Mark Brunell.

But I guess I get the impression from a lot of posters that they expect Campbell to be doing a lot of running, and I don't think that's going to be the case. He'll probably be more like a "black Big Ben" than Tony Romo sits to pee.

Alright you guys take the crap to the Stadium. We're here to figure out if these guys were black QBs their whole lives, or if they were white in high school. :laugh:

:shhh: I'm trying to get this thread moved to the Stadium so our post counts will go up.

[DCsportsfan53]

Alright you guys take the crap to the Stadium. We're here to figure out if these guys were black QBs their whole lives, or if they were white in high school. :laugh:

Screw you, hippy!!! :laugh:

[ashburnskinsfan]

There may still be a small level of racism in the league. After all the coaches and back-office staff mostly grew up during a time when racism was very widespread and I doubt if all of them have completely changed the mindset they had in their youth.

More likely the relative lack of black quarterbacks is due to the following:

(1) People naturally are drawn to where they are successful and athletes originating from West Africa genetically have a higher proportion of fast-twitch muscles, which produce more explosive energy, and greater muscle mass. The running back position especially is where these natural advantages will give a kid early success and encourage them down that path. I've coached track for a number of years and it is certainly true a higher proportion of African American kids run the sprint events, while the white kids, who many have grown up playing highly aerobic sports like soccer or lacrosse, tend to run longer distances. To be good at a state or national level they have to train hard and be dedicated, but kids understandably will pick an event where they can be successful first. That said, two of our best female sprinters are white, because they also wanted to focus on these events.

(2) In youth football, the coaches' son will usually be the quarterback. :doh: I heard Big Ben only got to play QB in his HS Senior year, because of this. :laugh:

Given that most youth football coaches are white, chances are more white kids will play QB from the beginning.

(3) Kids will often play the positions of their role models, and often this is tied to race. Until recently there have not been that many black QBs, but with McNabb and Vick, I would think that problem is going to go away, and maybe the current generation of youth footballers will change the ratio of black QBs playing at college and pro level to be the same as other positions.

On the subject of role models, I was just thinking about the many NFL shirts my 12-year old son owns. They are all players in positions he plays (WR, CB, RB, Safety). He doesn't own a single QB or lineman jersey because he has never played those positions. His best buddy plays QB and has a load of jerseys from that position.

[EersSkins05]

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the stereotype of the black quarterback as some sort of alternate version of the QB position still exists.

You would think that Moon, McNair, and McNabb would have dispersed this stereotype by now, but you still have people that think that there is a demonstrable difference in the cognative abilities of the two races when it comes to playing the quarterback position.

[DCsportsfan53]

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the stereotype of the black quarterback as some sort of alternate version of the QB position still exists.

You would think that Moon, McNair, and McNabb would have dispersed this stereotype by now, but you still have people that think that there is a demonstrable difference in the cognative abilities of the two races when it comes to playing the quarterback position.

I think you're right. Dan Patick and Keith Olbermann had an interesting conversation along these lines a few weeks back. They made a good point which is that, when referring to black athletes, you praise them for their oustanding athleticism or courage, when talking white athletes it's they're so smart or heady. That definitely does go on.

[Zguy28]

I think you're right. Dan Patick and Keith Olbermann had an interesting conversation along these lines a few weeks back. They made a good point which is that, when referring to black athletes, you praise them for their oustanding athleticism or courage, when talking white athletes it's they're so smart or heady. That definitely does go on.

Does that mean its racism? What is the ratio of black to white athletes in the NFL total? I would venture to guess that blacks hold a majority, therefore it appears they are more athletic.

Anyways...I think comments like those about ability or intelligence are more related to the positions they play. Qb's are always judged on their intelligence. Its just that with guys like McNabb, while a intelligent individual, his intelligence is overshadowed by his exceptional athletic prowess. He's the exception. I don't ever remember Troy Aikman getting praised for his intellect while he was playing. I remember him for being super-accurate, not super-smart.

It was the same with Reggie White for example. We all know he was smart, but he was darn talented physically too.

[DCsportsfan53]

Does that mean its racism? What is the ratio of black to white athletes in the NFL total? I would venture to guess that blacks hold a majority, therefore it appears they are more athletic.

Anyways...I think comments like those about ability or intelligence are more related to the positions they play. Qb's are always judged on their intelligence. Its just that with guys like McNabb, while a intelligent individual, his intelligence is overshadowed by his exceptional athletic prowess. He's the exception. I don't ever remember Troy Aikman getting praised for his intellect while he was playing. I remember him for being super-accurate, not super-smart.

It was the same with Reggie White for example. We all know he was smart, but he was darn talented physically too.

I didn't say if it was racism or not, I don't know what it is. It's just interesting to note that black athletes and whites athletes are often viewed through different eyes.

[Thanos]

Please inform me when a Black qb is identified the words: athletic, nimble, fast are used.

Notice leader and intelligent were never mentioned, as the case with popular culture.

[EersSkins05]

Please inform me when a Black qb is identified the words: athletic, nimble, fast are used.

Notice leader and intelligent were never mentioned, as the case with popular culture.

And I bet you've never heard someone refer to a white guy as "well-spoken."

[DCsportsfan53]

Please inform me when a Black qb is identified the words: athletic, nimble, fast are used.

Notice leader and intelligent were never mentioned, as the case with popular culture.

And I bet you've never heard someone refer to a white guy as "well-spoken."

yeah, that's exactly the stuff I was talking about. There are completely different sets of adjectives for white players and black players.

[LarryBrownsFan]

Please inform me when a Black qb is identified the words: athletic, nimble, fast are used.

Notice leader and intelligent were never mentioned, as the case with popular culture.

I think its normal and expected to talk about any quarterback's leadership skills, intelligence, athletic skills, etc... As to whether or not some people pre-judge those characteristics in an individual based on their skin color, I think you'll get a consensus that it still happens more than it should, but less often than it used to. But that topic is a real can of worms and I don't want to go fishing.

What do you think about the current topic? When, if ever, do you think it's appropriate (i.e. it matters enough) to call attention to the color of the quarterback's skin?

[Thanos]

Color wil always matter in America weather its disussed or not.A casual observation of the media can verify that.

I can tell you when Doug Williams was playing there was plenty of n-bombs thrown around in RFK.Trust me, I was there.

I can say this, its a lot better than it once was, but can still use some improvment.