Brunell Article from scout.com....read this before you decide.

[Abshir]

"You guys honestly think that putting Campbell will instantly fix our offensive problems? You think putting a QB who hasn't started a game yet will give us a better chance to win right now then a 13 year vet?

Why do people insit on bringing up how many games JC has played. he didn't walk in off the street , nor is he from some community college. The kid has skills, and why is it that other rookie quarterbacks are playing. JC is a great qb, and we need him. Also, it kills me that the same people always feel it to say he is our future. How far into the future. My friends I say the future is now, embrace it. And of course Brunell is over.

[Chachie]

That article doesn't change the fact that Brunell either isn't seeing open receivers, or chooses to not throw the ball downfield in favor of a 3 yard dump off after running 10 yards behind the LOS.

I'll stick with this guy's opinion. He's an NFL coach, so he should know.

[rtandler]

My response/clarification:

http://redskins.scout.com/2/570279.html

[jnhay]

Since no one responded to this post, I'm going to bump it up out of courtesy. I don't think it'll change anyone's mind though.

[PeterMP]

If the recievers were running a lot of the wrong pattern you'd hear about it. Brunell himself has made comments about the running game. Nobody is claiming the recievers are running to the wrong place. To me it looks like Brunell has leg problems again.

[Om]

My response/clarification:

http://redskins.scout.com/2/570279.html

Good job of smoothery, Rich.

Only thing that I'm surprised at or would probably take issue with is this:

If nothing else, patience is needed if for no other reason than to protect Jason Campbell. Putting him in as the starter with all of the problems that the offense is having would be borderline irresponsible. Sure, Big Ben took the Steelers all the way to the AFC title game his rookie year and all the way to the top his second year, but he was stepping in to a solid, stable situation in regards to the Steelers’ offense. That would not be the case right now with Campbell. It would be as bad as Patrick Ramsey getting thrown to the wolves by Steve Spurrier.

I've argued that given Mark Brunell's clear struggles, we can't really get a handle on what else really IS wrong with the O. When the QB is unable to make plays on his own to spark the unit--at ALL--the whole unit sinks with him.

I think this unit is feeling the effects of a lack of playmaking ability at the most important position on the field. I also think a young, strong-armed guy who can make plays both with his arm AND feet might be just the tonic to lift the whole unit--from the OL to the RB's to the WR's to Saunders dialing the stuff up.

I don't share your view that Jason's a neophyte who will be overwhelmed with the speed of the NFL (which is actually what I think looks like is happening to MARK at this point). I see a guy who will make some young mistakes, but they'll be errors of COmission, not Omission. Aggressive mistakes at 100 mph, not passive ones at 35.

More importantly I think he'll make enough positive plays that it will lift the whole unit around him, and force defenses to once again play the Redskins honest. Just my thoughts.

At any rate, good blog entries lead to good discussion, so hat's off to ya this week. Here's hoping you also know what you're talking about, which would make this a KILLER week for ya .. and not so bad for the rest of us either.

[azmodeus13]

I have an issue about a few things Rich, and while you have written a very good article, the points I have been making on this board isn't just about Brunell, though I have jumped in on that one hard because I truly have been shocked at his performance since the preseason began - it does look like he doesn't have faith in either the system, his arm or the receivers. How do I support that?

Underthrown, overthrown, hesitation, number of sacks, not throwing to the middle of the field and watching him scan the middle and dumping off quick, short, ineffective passes so fast that you wonder how in the heck he could have possibly scanned all of the WR before dumping it.

Add in the remarks that Susie Kolber was talking about Mark making and his not liking this offense and you really start to see a pattern.

Add in his age, his slowing down, his over caution even when down so far... you really have to start to think "Gee - when we are down 17, shouldn't you maybe RISK SOMETHING in order to try and win?" I mean I understand not wanting to get that pick if you are tight - but if you are down a lot and the only thing you can do is pass - why loft it 25 yards and 3 rows out of bounds when you could TRY to get the ball to a receiver?

Other questions abound: shape of the players is one, not synching - poor planning on the camp sched, the o line not blocking well, the backup RBs not doing all that well, getting more LBs and RBs when we could have used DTs and OL, why is Springs the only man on this team that can cover without having a penalty or giving up a big play, why did the blitzing stop, etc?

Another thing you are assuming is that Jason, with his athleticism, his age, his arm, his big time collegiate play with four different OCs is any worse off than Brunell. You are assuming, or so it sounds, that we are going to see a drop off the minute Campbell gets on the field.

What if - assuming a middle of the road thing here - that he doesn't suck, that is isn't a new incarnation of Brady, but what if, just maybe, he takes a few more chances and completes some passes that Brunell would have thrown to a fan. Or maybe can escape instead of rolling into a blitzer. What might that do for the team?

I actually cheered when we got Mark. I do like the man - he takes responsibility and calls it clearly. BUT... in 2004 when he had the pulled hammy and didn't pull himself when he clearly should have - it tells me he has a bit of the old athletic hubris that keeps people in play on any playing surface far longer than they should be.

Just a few thoughts.

[bbuzz1962]

but Brunel came back in '05 and had a very good season, and led us to the playoffs

I can see why you doubted Gibbs :laugh:

And many of the problems in 04 were as much if not more to the receivers we had, not doing their job, not running correct routes... exactly why Gibbs got rid of them not Brunell.

\

Bubba, please. He did not have a very good season. He may have had a good one, but that is only because our defense was so dominate, it gave him more time stat wise. He failed miserably in the playoffs. Had it not been for our D, this team would not have made it to the playoffs.

The defense just could not keep up the domination at the end of the season. They were tired. Tired of saving the offenses ass, and keeping them in every game. Gibbs did make a mistake not giving Ramsey a fair shot, which may have turned out to be a great thing had he evolved over the season.

It's ok to realize even the great coaches make stupid mistakes. Brunell is a stupid mistake. Just realize it, like the rest of the nation. There isn't one football fan I know who thinks he should be our starting quarterback.

He is 36 years old, trying to run away from faster, stronger and more athletic defenses than he faced when he came into the league. It's over Bubba, Brunell may be able to hang on, and get a few wins, but if he remains the starter, this season is toast.

[XxSpearheadxX]

\

Bubba, please. He did not have a very good season. He may have had a good one, but that is only because our defense was so dominate, it gave him more time stat wise. He failed miserably in the playoffs. Had it not been for our D, this team would not have made it to the playoffs.

The defense just could not keep up the domination at the end of the season. They were tired. Tired of saving the offenses ass, and keeping them in every game. Gibbs did make a mistake not giving Ramsey a fair shot, which may have turned out to be a great thing had he evolved over the season.

It's ok to realize even the great coaches make stupid mistakes. Brunell is a stupid mistake. Just realize it, like the rest of the nation. There isn't one football fan I know who thinks he should be our starting quarterback.

He is 36 years old, trying to run away from faster, stronger and more athletic defenses than he faced when he came into the league. It's over Bubba, Brunell may be able to hang on, and get a few wins, but if he remains the starter, this season is toast.

Great post. No matter what you say about Brunell, whether you think he is the worst or whatever - you can't deny there are tons of QBs available through trades and FAgency that would be just as good and probably better.

I can't believe we gave up a 3rd round pick for brunell, that is sickening.

[bbuzz1962]

Good job of smoothery, Rich.

Only thing that I'm surprised at or would probably take issue with is this:

I've argued that given Mark Brunell's clear struggles, we can't really get a handle on what else really IS wrong with the O. When the QB is unable to make plays on his own to spark the unit--at ALL--the whole unit sinks with him.

I think this unit is feeling the effects of a lack of playmaking ability at the most important position on the field. I also think a young, strong-armed guy who can make plays both with his arm AND feet might be just the tonic to lift the whole unit--from the OL to the RB's to the WR's to Saunders dialing the stuff up.

I don't share your view that Jason's a neophyte who will be overwhelmed with the speed of the NFL (which is actually what I think looks like is happening to MARK at this point). I see a guy who will make some young mistakes, but they'll be errors of COmission, not Omission. Aggressive mistakes at 100 mph, not passive ones at 35.

More importantly I think he'll make enough positive plays that it will lift the whole unit around him, and force defenses to once again play the Redskins honest. Just my thoughts.

At any rate, good blog entries lead to good discussion, so hat's off to ya this week. Here's hoping you also know what you're talking about, which would make this a KILLER week for ya .. and not so bad for the rest of us either.

Hey OM, great anaylsis as usual. This is exactly what I've been trying to empahsize since seeing him in preseason. He looks and plays old. He's short, cannot see down the field, cannot scramble, cannot step up into the pocket. He would be benched on any other team by now. Gibbs has got to let the pride thing go, and look out for what's best for the team, and it's GREAT FANS.

[azmodeus13]

\

He is 36 years old, trying to run away from faster, stronger and more athletic defenses than he faced when he came into the league. It's over Bubba, Brunell may be able to hang on, and get a few wins, but if he remains the starter, this season is toast.

I don't know that the season will be toast with Brunell, but if he doesn't shape up somewhat then it won't be like last year - especially with CP hurting already and the defense looking like without Springs we can't put pressure on the QB.

On the other hand - I love the fact that there are a lot of people assuming the opposite - if we go to Campbell that the season will be toast.

If we go 1-3 and Mark's performance hasn't improved do we pull him then and where is our season at that time?

[ajerocko]

i hate the argument that putting jason campbell in is throwing in the towel. with the talent level this entire team has, how can putting in a more talented qb make things so much more worse to the point that the season is trashed? also, no one seems to be pointing out that campbell and brunell both started learning this offense this year, brunell has no edge or maturity on him, especially since campbell as learned a new offense the last 6 years.

its just so preposterous to me that when you look at the athletic ability/game smarts of jason campbell vs. mark brunell, the "logical" fans can still choose brunell.

this redskin organization has not had a real qb in 20+ years. can we please try again on sunday?

[jnhay]

i hate the argument that putting jason campbell in is throwing in the towel. with the talent level this entire team has, how can putting in a more talented qb make things so much more worse to the point that the season is trashed? also, no one seems to be pointing out that campbell and brunell both started learning this offense this year, brunell has no edge or maturity on him, especially since campbell as learned a new offense the last 6 years.

its just so preposterous to me that when you look at the athletic ability/game smarts of jason campbell vs. mark brunell, the "logical" fans can still choose brunell.

this redskin organization has not had a real qb in 20+ years. can we please try again on sunday?

NFL experience is very important, and Brunell has experience, that's the major argument.

[Sebowski]

Here is the jist of the article for those who don't want to read the whole thing:

"The Redskins were scary close to 40 points against Dallas." :doh:

[fansince62]

"NFL experience is very important, and Brunell has experience, that's the major argument."

too bad it's not on display! experience can substitute for age only so far. unfortunately, it is apparent MB needs a coddled environment to produce at his advanced football age.

[AzSkinsFan63]

But I'm thinking a lot of those bonehead plays, like not throwing the ball to open receivers because you don't trust yourself and they are not open enough for your arm, or moving into defenders and getting sacked instead of away from defenders because you're no longer good at feeling the rush.

Not taking off when you could have because you're no longer mobile. Case in point.... when Brunell couldn't get to the sideline against Vikings, he even had to dive for the first down (Campbell gets out of bounds easily on that play I think).

Or how about getting rid of the ball to soon on blitzes and throwing it up where no one has a chance instead of waiting til the last second to throw the ball and put it where it needs to be while the receiver is ready for it. Yes, you are going to take a hit and good QB's do it every Sunday.

Those kind of plays..I think Campbell makes..Then the 2 plays where the receiver ran the wrong route are meaningless.

Besides the one to Betts was Brunell's fault IMHO just by the way Betts was running the route and Brunell threw in a hurry I can kinda calculate that one...I'm risking it but comparing it to the rest of Brunell's game i'd be willing to lay some money down..

Is Campbell ready with a new offense his second season?..Maybe not....and maybe that is the real problem here..if so that is sad in an of itself also.

The X-factor here is Todd Collins who has 5 years in this offense and everyone is worried to see after his preseason..In my opinion he might be the only hope of a deep playoff run team.

I believe Brunell will get better over the course of the year but he will wear down also..Why not save him for later when we need him and let's put the best QB we can in now if need be?

Hey i'm just asking...

[worstSeat]

After Madden said that, he was prodded for more information. That's when he said he thought that Brunell wasn't right for the offense. Several threads around here have the exact quote if you can find it.

Boswell's got it too at the Post:

"The Redskins have the weapons but the quarterback has to get the ball to those weapons. Do they have the right players to run the offense? I think therein lays the problem," said Madden as the Redskins headed to a 27-10 loss to the Cowboys. Later, he added: "Is this a pretty good offense that will get better or is it a bad offense that may never be able to play with these players? My best guess is that they don't have the right players. What I'm talking about is the quarterback position."

And now for the "In Gibbs we Trust" crowd...

I'll stick with this guy's opinion. He's an NFL coach, so he should know.

After what happened in 2004, I do not trust Joe Gibbs to make the right decision in a timely manner when it comes specifically to Mark Brunell.

The article is correct, there are problems on this team and this offense that go beyond the QB. But this QB has been a problem ever since he's gotten here and handed the starting job.

The line about, "Gibbs is an NFL head coach so shaddup," is driving me a little crazy. Case in point, Gibbs on Gibbs, as shown in today's Times:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/sports/20060920-121543-8752r.htm

Gibbs was too loyal to Brunell in 2004 and he later admitted he should have gone to Patrick Ramsey earlier.

Looks, Gibbs is saying he made a mistake. Why can't we? Which Gibbs is it we're supposed to trust? The right one, or the wrong one? So can't we argue over which it's going to be?!

[Ghost of]

Looks, Gibbs is saying he made a mistake. Why can't we? Which Gibbs is it we're supposed to trust? The right one, or the wrong one? So can't we argue over which it's going to be?!

Yeah, if you say "hey, Gibbs made a mistake" on something and then he later admits to doing just that, you're not allowed to point that out or somehow it's erased from our collective memories.

He's clearly infallible. :doh: :laugh:

[waterwagen]

Yeah, if you say "hey, Gibbs made a mistake" on something and then he later admits to doing just that, you're not allowed to point that out or somehow it's erased from our collective memories.

He's clearly infallible. :doh: :laugh:

Doesn't mean I'm going to stop ignoring you in the 99% of cases where you are wrong and he is right.

[Jumbo]

Yeh huh huh..ya can't ever point it out...I know right...then they brain-wipe ya here...hyk huk...cept if yur two sharp for 'em...huh hah...we're clearly super-smart up here..heh heh

[Marco Chacon]

Ok, I think I have an "untrainded eye"...

But, How can article improve the QB performance...???

I only agree with one thing... the Offensive line have to put a better effort to give some time to the "Old Man"...

[jseliga]

but Brunel came back in '05 and had a very good season, and led us to the playoffs

I can see why you doubted Gibbs :laugh:

And many of the problems in 04 were as much if not more to the receivers we had, not doing their job, not running correct routes... exactly why Gibbs got rid of them not Brunell.

BS....pure BS. Brunell didn't lead the redskins anywhere. The Defense led the skins to the playoffs. In fact, the only game that the Skins put up some serious offense was the one that Ramsey played in.....you know the one...we scored a TD almost everytime we had the ball.

You can only see Brunell hold the ball and throw it away so many times while top talented receivers are running routes before you have to think that maybe the QB isn't talented enough to find the small pockets of opportunity. It is an art and there are some that have mastered it, but there is somebody open on every play, I guarantee it.

[jseliga]

:munchout: I wouldn't be bailing out of Mark's camp yet! Lets see what he can do with a healthy Portis and a effective running game!

Mark has gotten better as this TEAM has gotten better. We have played 2 pretty good teams without an effective running game.

I don't think anybody looks as Brunell as a guy who is going to win a game by himself. I don't think anybody thinks Jason can either. People may think he can perform a little better but he is still no Elway or any of the other few QB's who could actually win a game on thier own.

based on what?....Roethlisberger?Eli Manning? Everyone is so quick to say that Campbell won't do any better. How do we know that he won't pull a Big-Ben or Eli within 5 or so games. Heck, the skins have proven over the last year that the QB doesn't have to play well for the team to win. Maybe the team can carry a little load while Jason gets some experience. Everyone says Cambell won't do any better.....damn... it's amazing that the people who can't see that Brunell sux, can see the future with Campbell.

[nfl fan]

Good article.