Brunell Article from scout.com....read this before you decide.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

this is a joke.... we're not just talking about him throwing to the wrong part of the field, the guy can't throw anymore. he can't move, he cant throw. he's scared of the pass rush. he drops back 20 yards every pass play.

why is it that when brunell is so clearly to blame, all these crazy excuses always pop up for him? first it was there werent enough receivers running routes, now the receivers are running the wrong routes? oh, and that pass to betts he talked about was clearly brunell's fault. you dont throw a pass to a rb in the flat on his inside shoulder.

there is no greater conspiracy here. brunell just has lost it. all players lose it at some point. sadly for us fans, brunell lost his sometime last year

[D Al]

Brunell is scared to get hit. PERIOD !

Scale down the offense and let Campbell play.

[TheLongshot]

While I agree to a certain extent to where Brunell is (he actually wasn't bad against Minnesota), it doesn't mean that he's done. I mean, he did look sharp against Minnesota. (other than he didn't go down the field enough)

The usual reaction from a coach isn't to bench the player, but to have them work through it. That's where we are with Brunell right now. He's had one decent game and one awful game.

The Spurrier method of changing QBs like changeing underwear doesn't work. For right or wrong, you have to commit to a QB, and for the time being, it is Brunell.

It doesn't mean that at some point soon, Brunell will prove that he doesn't have it anymore and a QB change will be nessicary. But, that's up to the coaches watching film and seeing the same problems come up again, despite trying to fix it.

But, it is a little early for that.

Jason

[KingGibbs]

Goskins. Good find and they are indeed pedestrian numbers. How anyone can defend those numbers is beyond me.

[Philip Pease]

Coming into this season with a new offensive coordinator who has proven himself in KC and 2 new WRs who proved themselves with their previous teams I thought our passing game would be very good.

An improved passing game to go along with our very good running game with Clinton Portis and a good OL who is all together for a second straight season would take us to a championship. Mark Brunnel showed me last season that he could get it done.

So why is our offense not living up to my expectations?

I am of the opinion that the offensive philosophy of Al Saunder is really a lot different than that of Joe Gibbs (even though they both started with the same background) and that Mark has not adapted to Al's game.

Joe Gibbs stressed that the QB be smart and to not throw into coverage but to throw it away if the receiver is not open. So, Mark is holding the ball until he sees the receiver is open.

From what I have read (but have not seen as I did not follow KC) Al Saunders passing scheme is based on timing patterns. As I imagine this the QB is expected to see the mismatch before the snap and then fire the ball to the spot where that receiver is supposed to be on the play called.

If I have correctly characterized Al Saunders passing scheme then I conclude that Mark Brunnel is not confident/comfortable with Al's philosophy. He is not throwing the quick timing pattern, throw to a spot before the receiver makes his cut; but is holding on to the ball until he sees the receiver is open (worried about throwing an interception).

Maybe I am wrong in my characterization of what is going on as I am not familiar with Al Saunders passing game philosophy. Mark is not looking comfortable at all and there is no rythym in the passing game.

Mark has been getting a lot of pressure and has not been able to stay in the pocket; but it looks to me like he has time to throw the short and intermediate pass if he were making a quick timing pattern type of pass. Instead he is backpeddeling and throwing off his back foot and as a result is poor execution.

[scruffylookin]

but Brunel came back in '05 and had a very good season, and led us to the playoffs

I can see why you doubted Gibbs :laugh:

And many of the problems in 04 were as much if not more to the receivers we had, not doing their job, not running correct routes... exactly why Gibbs got rid of them not Brunell.

Bubba, you keep talking about "leading us to the playoffs" all you want. It doesn't change the fact that he didn't do squat to "lead" us anywhere last year.

Also, for the record, I'm not convinced in the least that Patrick Ramsey could not have done the same thing (probably better) last year if he was actually given a chance instead of being pulled after less then a half of work against one of the best defenses in the league.

Gibbs gets zero benefit of the doubt from me when it comes to Mark Brunell.

[fansince62]

"That was his whole point... WE DON"T KNOW enough to make a logical decision, like the coaches do."

BS. or to turn the coin on its head - we do know Joe Gibbs in his conference yesterday stated that the apporach to preseason may have been wrong and that he will do it differently next year. The point - the coaches can be wrong. The unbelievably puerile and mindlsess argument that some of you persistently trot out "don't think for yourselves..the coaches always know best"...is getting tiresome...and insulting.

you wanna be a homer fine. but try to keep the non-argument argument from polluting the thoughts of people who actually want to take a deeper, individual look into things.

[GoCommiesGo]

Goskins. Good find and they are indeed pedestrian numbers. How anyone can defend those numbers is beyond me.

Everyone focuses on the win and not how the game was won. Portis is the heart and soul of this team without him we are just a shell.

If we had a medicore QB we would have won both of those games. Look at Brad Johnson against a very good Panthers D.

[XxSpearheadxX]

Also Brunell's "TDs" have always been an illusion because of the number of playaction swings we called inside the 10 to 5 yard line.

Just look at Sellers' 7 TDs, was he a comparably reciever to Moss? Hell no.

Take away Brunell's TDs inside the 5 yard line, what do you have? Very, very bad numbers.

Or even - take out the TDs inside the 5 yard line NOT caught IN the endzone, so any fades or cross routes still count since they are quite difficult throws to make, which MB never makes anyway.

[fansince62]

in MB's defense...we won some games early on last season directly BECAUSE of him. but over the last patr of the season and on into this season...he has been a non-factor....perhaps even a net negative. and that is what the MB homers are missing.

[XxSpearheadxX]

in MB's defense...we won some games early on last season directly BECAUSE of him. but over the last patr of the season and on into this season...he has been a non-factor....perhaps even a net negative. and that is what the MB homers are missing.

Exactly - MB is a great BACKUP QB, that is what he is. He can win a few games here and there, maybe finish one out - but start week in and week out?

He has proven over the last 2 years that he cannot and will not be able to do that imo.

[GoCommiesGo]

So looking at the body of work from the last nine games we have 124/212 for 1378yds putting him at 153yds a game. He's thrown 9tds in the last 7games with half coming in one game. He's thrown 7 picks in 9 games with basically half coming in one game.

So what we have is a player that is a player going (Per game average for last 9 games)

14/24 153yds 1td .778int per game.

Portis carried this team last year I could break this down further by throwing out the high and low for each player but I dont have the time.

Its a body of work that people are upset about not just a what have you done for me lately. The last 9 games are not the abberation the start of 05 was. I'm sorry thats a fact thats whats supported by the stats from 04 and the last 9 games.

:2cents:

Yeah I just quoted myself. :doh:

[azmodeus13]

I'll have to respectfully disagree with Tandler, at least on this point:

While it's true that Mark Brunell is not the ONLY problem with the '06 offense so far (few serious observers are claiming that anyway), it does appear pretty clear that he's perhaps the most glaring. And it's not in the kinds of plays we've seen, like the 2 Rich notes. It's more in the plays we're NOT seeing.

Sometimes the QB needs to be a playmaker. To create. When the called play breaks down, as it does on many, many occasions during the course of a game, the QB has to be able, sometimes, to create on the fly. To reload and hit a guy who's adjusted his route. To buy some time in the pocket until someone does shakes free. To maybe, from time to time, particularly on 3rd downs when the 1st options appear covered, to make an NFL throw anyway, put it in a place only your guy can get it, and give your NFL WR a chance to make a play.

We've seen precious little evidence of that so far.

No, we're not in the film rooms, and no, we don't know when Mark's making a smart decision throwing it away or when he probably could or should have tried to make something happen. The Skins offense IS new, and as a result it's not going to be a smooth machine for a while. None of us should have expected it to be. In that kind of situation, seems to me the trigger man has to be both willing and able to SOMETIMES make a play to give his team a boost and a spark. From what I've seen, it does not look like Mark is there right now.

Fortunately, there are considerably smarter football people than both Mr. Tandler and myself in Ashburn, however, who can see through the fog of war on this issue based on reviewing films AND knowing what was "supposed" to happen, and make an informed decision on the if/when of the great "When to Play JC" debate.

Om, I agree and disagree - there were times I could easily see that Brunell had a chance and didn't take it from the replays. There were a couple of them that were really glaring and while he was being blitzed at the time that Moss showed his frustration, he had enough time to turn and fire the ball to the back.

True, the line should be blocking better, and Betts needs to get absolutely canned for his lack of any kind of blitz pick up skills (not to mention lack of vision - running into piles with a hole right next to him) but there are a plethora of QBs who manage to dump off to a wide open receiver in a blitz situation (see Bledsoe who spent most of his time on his butt in the Jax game).

I have played this sport, as well as studied it, and I have to agree that while we aren't there in the film rooms, we are there seeing the games and seeing the indecision that we grew to hate so much in Ramsey.

I hate seeing Brunell almost ALWAYS take the safe route when we are losing anyway and not put the ball where his WR might have a CHANCE to make a play. Look at the circus performer type receivers we have and tell me they can't tightrope the sideline and make a catch while keeping the ball away from the DB.

I agree that we can look at last year and see that Mark CAN get the job done, but I have to ask after watching so many miscues and missed opportunities, is does Mark BELIEVE he can get the job done? Does his not putting enough on the ball to Cooley reflect his indecision? Does his not throwing in the middle of the field unless the defense is in prevent reflect his indecision? Does his dumping to a back constantly reflect his indecision? Does his throwing the ball away constantly without putting it lower for his WRs to even TRY reflect his indecision?

Not any one of those by themselves, but all of them together? I think it does.

Look at my past posts - I was in Mark's camp.

The stats and performance don't bear out my supporting him any longer though. Last year it took a switch to putting the load on Portis' shoulders completely to win those last games. Without Portis this year, we aren't performing at all. It shouldn't, as on defense with Springs, depend all on one man - and the QB is one man who you should be able to depend on to hoist the nards from the hot frying pan. Brunell has not shown one iota of 2005 in the six games he has played in this year.

I would love to have someone explain to me why in the world after last years mediocrity, 2004's horrible numbers and this year's horrible numbers I should be jumping in to support Mark any longer.

[tone_dubbz]

Any real fan and anyone that actually knows anything about Coach Gibbs knows that he won't be benching Brunell anytime soon. It will take a lot more that 2 sub-par performances to get benced.

[azmodeus13]

how about 6? how about, including last year's sub par (mostly 150 yard games) performances for an NFL starting QB? how about 2004?

[GoCommiesGo]

Any real fan and anyone that actually knows anything about Coach Gibbs knows that he won't be benching Brunell anytime soon. It will take a lot more that 2 sub-par performances to get benced.

How about 9 in a row? How about 04 + the last 9 games he played in? I mean where do you draw the line here. At some point you have to become proactive in your decision making instead of retroactive after its all said and done.

[Om]

Any real fan and anyone that actually knows anything about Coach Gibbs knows that he won't be benching Brunell anytime soon. It will take a lot more that 2 sub-par performances to get benced.

On the other hand ... maybe any real fan and anyone that actually knows anything about Coach Gibbs knows that he will absolutely bench someone if he thinks it is in the best interests of his team.

Life if funny that way. Sometimes different people can "know" certain things, and have those things be totally different.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Any real fan and anyone that actually knows anything about Coach Gibbs knows that he won't be benching Brunell anytime soon. It will take a lot more that 2 sub-par performances to get benced.

people keep saying this, but in gibbs 1.0, wasnt he known for his quick hook and his ability to win with seemingly any qb? in his first stint, i remember him winning games with theisman, schroeder, williams, rypien, humphries.... am i forgetting anyone? that's five right there in what 12 years? so why is he so married to brunell now? it makes no sense and its inconsistent with the way he did things before

[DC_Native,NC_Fan]

Some of them (us) are really starting to reach now. When your only response is "In Gibbs I trust", or "The coaches are smarter than you" then you already lost the argument. Hell, I've never coached anything in my life and even I know what plays to call to beat all of those blitzes that Dallas was bringing. Did our coaches? Uh, no.

[redskins1982]

That article sticks. He is the Quarterback. The leader. not the receiver, not the blocker, not the running back. He is suppose to lead us to the promise land. he cannot. Well not the way he is playing. Just like this nation. We are at war. who is getting the blame. Bush is. Why, because he is the leader of this country. We rise or we fall, but it is all up to our leader to get us there. If he cannot lead and do his job then you fire and hire someone else. I have read some of the messages on here. about believe in Joe, and Al. All I have to say about that is. they are human we all make mistakes. If it would have been any other team in the NFL it might be as bad, but when you lose to the Cowboys like that. you need to go. True it is not all of Mark fault but 95% of it is. You have 5 good receivers and you can't get the ball down field. Will someone please answer me that one. Mark did better when it was just Moss, and Cooley. Now Patton is better, and he has Randle El and Lloyd. What can his brain function on more than one receiver? The article says that Betts was looking one way and Mark was looking the other. If I was the quarterback and I see my receiver looking toward the outside to catch the ball. Why in the world would I throw it to the inside? Mark needs to sit out and be Jason advisor, and let Jason play, I mean we did some moving and dealing to get him in the draft to have him sit on the bench. If he is the future of the Redskins and Al Offense is also the future of the Redskins then why do we still have Mark playing?:dallasuck

[sashae]

So, for those that are defending Brunell, at what point do you pull him? Let's assume he has an "okay" game this week against the Texans, win or lose... do you pull him then, or does he get a reprieve because he didn't look like an utter mutt against one of the worst defenses in the league?

When is enough enough? Seems like sucking for much of the last three frickin' years would cover it, but apparently not.

[ProBowler]

Look at my past posts - I was in Mark's camp.

The stats and performance don't bear out my supporting him any longer though. Last year it took a switch to putting the load on Portis' shoulders completely to win those last games. Without Portis this year, we aren't performing at all. It shouldn't, as on defense with Springs, depend all on one man - and the QB is one man who you should be able to depend on to hoist the nards from the hot frying pan. Brunell has not shown one iota of 2005 in the six games he has played in this year.

I would love to have someone explain to me why in the world after last years mediocrity, 2004's horrible numbers and this year's horrible numbers I should be jumping in to support Mark any longer.

:munchout: I wouldn't be bailing out of Mark's camp yet! Lets see what he can do with a healthy Portis and a effective running game!

Mark has gotten better as this TEAM has gotten better. We have played 2 pretty good teams without an effective running game.

I don't think anybody looks as Brunell as a guy who is going to win a game by himself. I don't think anybody thinks Jason can either. People may think he can perform a little better but he is still no Elway or any of the other few QB's who could actually win a game on thier own.

[Ambrus]

yea and every week its someone else fault never Marks. Last year it was the conservative offense then only one good reciever now no good recievers that cant catch or run good routes or poor lineman cant do anything right and an offense that just doesnt work any more. Ive watched Mark now for the last 3 years and its the same old story. I'm at the point now as hating to watch him as I did Frerotte in his last couple of years. Im not sure what the correct answer to the qb problem is but I think I know whats not working.

[Gamebreaker]

I take exception to Tandler calling out Jansen, who probably hasn't been taught how to block for a Quarterback who takes a 10-step drop straight out of the pocket. All offensive tackles are taught to push the pass rusher further back, away from the pocket. How is Jansen suppose to know that the pass rusher is running right for Brunell's body when he isn't suppose to be there?

[jnhay]

You call that article a defense of Brunell's play? That article is a joke. Back Pedaling Brunell needs to be Benched Brunell plain and simple.

What is "Back Pedaling" in reference to? What Brunell did to avoid the oncoming rushers that should have been picked up?

I wish this article was more detailed of why Brunell wasn't the problem. Maybe there'll be a new one after they look at tape or something.