Redskins Diehard Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 WOW, what another completely ignorant post concerning the democratic party and where they are headed. Yea, Clinton and Kerry were "extreme leftists" and the Republican party is centrist in nature :doh: With the likes of James Dobson and the Christian Right with enormous power, they really move the party to the center huh? :doh:Transference, read up on it wolf, you seem to be quite adept at using this mechanism to mask your own insecurities. . . :2cents: Why do you have to be such a prick in EVERY one of your posts? Can people not disagree with you and not be ignorant, insecure people? Did your mommy not love you or something? Get over yourself already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I couldn't help but think of this with all sides accusing each other of vote fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ax Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I couldn't help but think of this with all sides accusing each other of vote fixing. :laugh: Very good. I don't know what's worse. Thinking the only way one's side could lose an election is by the other side cheating. Or, the moronic belief that one side is less corrupt than the other. Save the Country! Vote Independent down the line in the next election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Replying to Thiebear without re-posting his long quote: Do the machines have a clock in them? (I guarantee they do, otherwise they couldn't make the access code invalid after 15 minutes.) If they have a clock in them, then it's really simple for remlik to tell the machine "Change one Kerry vote out of every three to a Bush vote, but only between 9 and 5 on election day. The rest of the time, leave the votes unchanged." (Now, if the machines use open source software, then things like that are a lot tougher to do. Going open source might make such tampering impossible, but I'm not 100% certain it couldn't still be done.) (BTW, thanks for the answer to something I'd been wondering about with electronic voting. Specifically, what's to prevent me, say, from waiting in line, signing in, walking to a machine, voting, walking away from the machine, then wandering around the room for 20 seconds, walking to another machine, and voting again. I'd assumed that when you sign in, you're issued some physical or virtual key that can only be used once, but I didn't know.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webnarc Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Hand counting is considered accurate by whom? Doesn't hand counting mean PEOPLE can change any damn thing they want with each vote??? Hand counting is less reliable than confidential computer voting. As you said, that was the old program and system. I happen to be an MCSE and automation and security expert, and am very familiar with how networking and hacking works, thx. It leaves a trail, no matter how easy to manipulate it is, the intel guys can track it. Simple. You still never said why YOU had the program....Carter? Read up on him? How old are you? I was living in DC during his presidency, why would I need to read about him? He was so interested in being 'nice' to everyone, yes, he turned the reigns of his party over to far left radicals. Wow. You'll find people like me will engage you a lot because I deal in your currency, rudeness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Wow. You'll find people like me will engage you a lot because I deal in your currency, rudeness. (Yeah, and I bet you can spell "Redskins", too.) But you'd better not mess with him on this subject. He's a computer security expert, and Microsoft has taught him everything they know about creating computer software that absolutely, possitively can not be manipulated or compromised in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 (Yeah, and I bet you can spell "Redskins", too.) But you'd better not mess with him on this subject. He's a computer security expert, and Microsoft has taught him everything they know about creating computer software that absolutely, possitively can not be manipulated or compromised in any way. Who's better at security? An apple guy thats all dusty or me that does 8 security patches, 1 sql patch and 9 virus updates each month. The tablets seem on the surface to be better... which is what I'd look for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webnarc Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 But you'd better not mess with him on this subject. He's a computer security expert, and Microsoft has taught him everything they know about creating computer software that absolutely, possitively can not be manipulated or compromised in any way. Heh heh, until that critical update arrives in 3, 2, 1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Hand counting is considered accurate by whom? Doesn't hand counting mean PEOPLE can change any damn thing they want with each vote??? Hand counting is less reliable than confidential computer voting. As you said, that was the old program and system. I happen to be an MCSE and automation and security expert, and am very familiar with how networking and hacking works, thx. It leaves a trail, no matter how easy to manipulate it is, the intel guys can track it. Simple. You still never said why YOU had the program....Carter? Read up on him? How old are you? I was living in DC during his presidency, why would I need to read about him? He was so interested in being 'nice' to everyone, yes, he turned the reigns of his party over to far left radicals. Hand counting is considered accurate by organizations who actually organize election balloting and tabulation. Also, when tabulation is hand counted, it is normally under the eyes of observers and, ideally, kept under lock and key. But the ideal difference is that you can actually see the physical votes, as opposed to the numbers just being in a table, which was the reality of the GEMS application. Of course, like any system, hand counting is flawed and not necessarily ideal, but at least you see the physical presence of the vote. Now, I am not against electronic voting, but we need different companies that are not poltical connected, as well as more transparency. By the way, if are indeed involved with security, then you would indeed know that the method described in the Diebold "hack" leaves no footprints, or little footprint to a logged-in user, authentication, IP address, or anything that will tell you information about who would have made such a change. Also, keep in mind, that the GEMS "servers" were Windows 98. So, with the pedigree that you say you have with computer and networking systems, how secure do you really think an Access based application, on Windows 98 computer, is going to be, both of which have crap for security. By the way, what "intel" guys are going to pick up on any such footprints that may possibly exist? I would suggest you ACTUALLY look at the method use for the hack - if you are familiar with hacking and security, then you should know that arrogance and acting as if you *know* something before examining it is the best way to overlook security flaws. My impression is that you did not even bother to look at the "hack," or you would have a little bit more insight into the situation other than telling me about your background. And, by the way, I work in systems every day as well. And here is the kicker - the application has two tables for the tabulation results: One table is actually displayed in a report which will display the supposed tabulated votes. The problem is that this table is actuallY NOT used as the actual compiled votes. There is a SECOND table, of which information is not disaplayed AT ALL in the GEMS program, that is the ACTUAL tabulated votes and actually used for that precinct's votes. And that is a large part of the questionable structure of this application. Do you realize what that means? This program version which describes this "hack" is NOT THAT OLD - it was used in the 2000 AND 2004 election, and is still being used in many areas. So it isn't as if I picked up some version from 1997 or some such. Why are you so infatuated with the reason why *I* have the program? It is simple - *I* actually wanted to see it for myself the method used for the "hack," and if it could be done. Unlike yourself, I like to actually see something first hand and then attempt to discuss the issue. Also, there are hundreds, if not thousands of folks, that now have this application, so I am most certainly not alone. I could care less if you were living in D.C. during Carter's Presidency - you didn't seem very informed about his past, except for your hyperbole of "the radicals" during his Presidency. Carter was a close associate with folks such as Kissinger, Rockerfeller, and Zbigniew Brzezinski, and his Presidency actually had a large number of Trilateral Commission representatives as opposed to just "radicals." Interestingly enough, Brzezinski, a co-founder of the TLC and an early Neo-Con thinker, said that the TLC basically needed one of its members as president as soon as possible - Carter was an early member of this organization. And it must be noted that Carter won the Presidency in 1976 with accusations of voting fraud in the South, so this subject is even more so related to the thread topic. Alright, talking about such "radicals" in the Carter Presidency, let's take a look at some of them: Vice President Walter Mondale National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski Secretary of State Cyrus Vance Treasury Secretary Michael Blumenthal Defense Secretary Harold Brown United Nations' Ambassador Andrew Young State Department senior officials Richard Cooper Warren Christopher What is the commonality of these folks? All TLC members - radicals? Far from it...These guys are The System at the highest level...I would especially recommend to read about Zbigniew Brzezinski and his influence on the PNAC. So, *no*, he was not so "interested in being nice" to everyone. You are severaly underestimating Carter, the folks who supported him, and his role in the conflict that is occuring between the power blocks on the world, one of which is the Internationalists in the Trilateral Commission. So, yes, I think you do need to do some reading on Carter to have more insight then what you currently have. After all, the most clever insight I have seen from you, so far, is the use of "homo," which is incredibly deep thinking and insight on the subject. Yes, I am being sarcastic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 (Yeah, and I bet you can spell "Redskins", too.) But you'd better not mess with him on this subject. He's a computer security expert, and Microsoft has taught him everything they know about creating computer software that absolutely, possitively can not be manipulated or compromised in any way. Who's better at security? An apple guy thats all dusty or me that does 8 security patches, 1 sql patch and 9 virus updates each month. The tablets seem on the surface to be better... which is what I'd look for. MICROSOFT: SECURITY BY OBSCURITY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Going to really look into the machines in Virginia. I like the Alexandria voting machines as they are stupid proof.. I do security for a living on computers so its bothering me that people keep saying they can't fix it so paper is better...http://www.alexandriavoter.org/eSlate/eSlate_index_page.html Eslate is the legal pad referred to earlier... I am going to take a look at that website - I would also like to see electronic systems that actually work and are secure as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I couldn't help but think of this with all sides accusing each other of vote fixing. Unfortunately, voting fraud happens, and has happened for years. So, in reality, the conspiracy is the one that involves the folks who perpetuate the actually voting fraud. Remember, conspiracy is a crime - it is not merely folks who speculate on possible theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 :laugh: Very good.I don't know what's worse. Thinking the only way one's side could lose an election is by the other side cheating. Or, the moronic belief that one side is less corrupt than the other. Save the Country! Vote Independent down the line in the next election. I vote this as the best post in the thread so far. However, voting down the line is what already happens. Strip the word Dem and Rep and Ind off the ballot. Put the name only. This will force people to use Google, Yahoo... to research their candidate or just not vote.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 theres three types of voters today. There is the right voter, the democrat voter, and the neo-humanist/socialist/satanist voter. The true democrat is gone, completely drivin from his party. They have been forced to accept things that dont gel with their personal beliefs purely for political gain. I dream for the day that the democrats retake their party and come closer to the center so that my party cant dance without fear. The far left has to be purged from the democrats. This is hilarious on many levels. First of all, a vote for Bush is not even a traditional conservative vote. It is a vote for the neo-cons. If you can't see the difference between this administration and traditional conservatives like Pat Buchanon, then you need to learn a little more about politics. Secondly, The mainstream democrats are so far shoved to the middle it isn't even funny. Besides the immigration issues, which both parties fail to address, tell me exactly what issues that the mainstream democrats push, don't coincide with how most americans feel. Calling John Kerry a leftist is pretty hilarious. I guess the new barometer for being an extreme leftist is whether you agree with the War in Iraq. If you are agaisnt it, you are automatically a communist, who hates america and a neo-humanist and satanist......lol. I am still waiting for someone to list and/or explain these "far left ideals" that they claim the democrat party has. I don't want NAMES, I want issues here people, list the views on issues that make someone FAR LEFT.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sick Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 The same people that make these voting machines make ATM Machines. Why can't voting machines have paper receipts? Why shouldn't we DEMAND them? It makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 The mainstream democrats are so far shoved to the middle it isn't even funny.I am still waiting for someone to list and/or explain these "far left ideals" that they claim the democrat party has. I don't want NAMES, I want issues here people, list the views on issues that make someone FAR LEFT.... First of all, the Dems are no more centered than the Reps. Both are out in left and right field compared to the middle. Secondly, there are a multitude of issues the Dems support that the average American is against. One is the whole gay marriage issue. Of course, Dems claim that the average American is in favor this. But the polls show an overwhelming majority are against them. Even in Mass. where they legalized it, the population rose up and circulated a petition that is going to push the issue in front of legislators. That is one issue, and more can be discussed, but probably should be done in a different thread to prevent hijacking of the original topic. Now, I am going to get flamed (no pun intended) that tjis is not an issue with all that is going on in the world. But this is how two party politics works. One side tries to focus on the task at hand while the other is pushing an agenda. When the other party stops and addresses the agenda, the agenda pushers shake their hands and scream that they should be focusing on the real issues. Both sides are guilty as sin of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I am still waiting for someone to list and/or explain these "far left ideals" that they claim the democrat party has. I don't want NAMES, I want issues here people, list the views on issues that make someone FAR LEFT.... I’ll take a crack at it, without even mentioning the military or foreign policy… 1. Opposition to any energy policy that includes further exploration, building refineries or nuclear plants 2. Cradle to grave government programs 3. Supporting government funded childcare 4. Despite mediocre results, opposition to any and all public school reform, including testing and vouchers 5. Opposition to ANY private investment of social security 6. Opposing welfare reform 7. Supporting government run healthcare 8. Opposing ANY legal reform 9. Supporting gun control for law abiding citizens 10. Completely banning religion from the public square 11. Supporting absurd “hate crimes laws” 12. Disgraceful eminent domain laws/rulings 13. Using Sweden as some ideal government/economic model 14. “Cuba has a great healthcare system” 15. Affirmative action 16. Government funded abortion on demand 17. Class warfare 18. It takes a village 19. Che Guevera t-shirts "We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society." (Hillary Clinton, 1993) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 First of all, the Dems are no more centered than the Reps. Both are out in left and right field compared to the middle.Secondly, there are a multitude of issues the Dems support that the average American is against. One is the whole gay marriage issue. Of course, Dems claim that the average American is in favor this. But the polls show an overwhelming majority are against them. Even in Mass. where they legalized it, the population rose up and circulated a petition that is going to push the issue in front of legislators. That is one issue, and more can be discussed, but probably should be done in a different thread to prevent hijacking of the original topic. Now, I am going to get flamed (no pun intended) that tjis is not an issue with all that is going on in the world. But this is how two party politics works. One side tries to focus on the task at hand while the other is pushing an agenda. When the other party stops and addresses the agenda, the agenda pushers shake their hands and scream that they should be focusing on the real issues. Both sides are guilty as sin of this. Most Dems don't support gay marriage, they support civil unions. Also, the american people are overwhemingly AGAINST a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I’ll take a crack at it, without even mentioning the military or foreign policy…1. Opposition to any energy policy that includes further exploration, building refineries or nuclear plants 2. Cradle to grave government programs 3. Supporting government funded childcare 4. Despite mediocre results, opposition to any and all public school reform, including testing and vouchers 5. Opposition to ANY private investment of social security 6. Opposing welfare reform 7. Supporting government run healthcare 8. Opposing ANY legal reform 9. Supporting gun control for law abiding citizens 10. Completely banning religion from the public square 11. Supporting absurd “hate crimes laws” 12. Disgraceful eminent domain laws/rulings 13. Using Sweden as some ideal government/economic model 14. “Cuba has a great healthcare system” 15. Affirmative action 16. Government funded abortion on demand 17. Class warfare 18. It takes a village 19. Che Guevera t-shirts "We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society." (Hillary Clinton, 1993) Ok half of those on the list are not even policies, they are saracstic rhetoric soundbytes, (17,13,14,16,18,19) Also, some of those such as Government Run Healthcare/Childcare are not Mainstream Democratic views, they are MY views as a progressive, but the head honchos in the Democrat party are not pushing for that. Any of those with the word "reform" can get thrown out, because everyone agrees that they need reform, it is how you define reform, and what reform entails, everyone wants reform, they just don't agree how to reform it. The majority are AGAINST hate crime legislation....gun control !?! See my entire point in this was to point out that the "loony left" or whatever tagline Rush decided to use today, does not rule the Democratic party. I know the Democrats are left of Republicans, but they aren't some fringe left-wing group, they are just people who disagree with Republican/Conservative philosophy. Me, myself, I would consider myself a progressive, a little more left then the mainstream Democratic Party and I can say FOR SURE that the Democratic party doesn't represent my platform, across the board and there is plenty of issues I have with them, and think there are a lot of important issues they don't address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted August 25, 2006 Author Share Posted August 25, 2006 I’ll take a crack at it, without even mentioning the military or foreign policy…1. Opposition to any energy policy that includes further exploration, building refineries or nuclear plants 2. Cradle to grave government programs 3. Supporting government funded childcare 4. Despite mediocre results, opposition to any and all public school reform, including testing and vouchers 5. Opposition to ANY private investment of social security 6. Opposing welfare reform 7. Supporting government run healthcare 8. Opposing ANY legal reform 9. Supporting gun control for law abiding citizens 10. Completely banning religion from the public square 11. Supporting absurd “hate crimes laws” 12. Disgraceful eminent domain laws/rulings 13. Using Sweden as some ideal government/economic model 14. “Cuba has a great healthcare system” 15. Affirmative action 16. Government funded abortion on demand 17. Class warfare 18. It takes a village 19. Che Guevera t-shirts "We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society." (Hillary Clinton, 1993) Here is some of what the democratic platform actually is minus your "version" of what you wish it was. . . Getting out of Iraq Balancing the budget eliminating corporate welfare keeping jobs in the US immigration reform (the righties did nothing for 6 years) eliminating pork spending making government transparent giving people their rights back creating fair voting machines which are transparent giving middle income americans tax breaks for school and child care funding alternative energies and transforming our economy from an oil based one eliminating corruption in the House and Senate that's for starters. . . Also, I don't remember seeing welfare being part of their platform, and why is it bad to make people get a backround check before purchasing a weapon? Do you want to hand out M-16s to Al Qaeda? Terrorist sympathiser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Here is some of what the democratic platform actually is minus your "version" of what you wish it was. . .Getting out of Iraq Balancing the budget eliminating corporate welfare keeping jobs in the US immigration reform (the righties did nothing for 6 years) eliminating pork spending making government transparent giving people their rights back creating fair voting machines which are transparent giving middle income americans tax breaks for school and child care funding alternative energies and transforming our economy from an oil based one eliminating corruption in the House and Senate that's for starters. . . Also, I don't remember seeing welfare being part of their platform, and why is it bad to make people get a backround check before purchasing a weapon? Do you want to hand out M-16s to Al Qaeda? Terrorist sympathiser Chom, if the Dems win big this election and take control of gov't in the near future I'm going to hold you to these claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted August 25, 2006 Author Share Posted August 25, 2006 Of course, Dems claim that the average American is in favor this. But the polls show an overwhelming majority are against them. Even in Mass. where they legalized it, the population rose up and circulated a petition that is going to push the issue in front of legislators. Actually, you are wrong here, support went UP in Massachusetes for gay marriage after it was legalized. You see, all the boogiemen that said society was going to self destruct were wrong, and . . . gasp . . . society didn't collapse here. Just because a group of hate filled zealots got 15,000 people to sign a petition does not mean the "population rose up", it means there are 15,000 hate filled people who want to discriminate and place the government in our bedrooms. It is by no means the belief of the entire state, and polls show the opposite of what you say, gay marriage is garnering more support as time goes on. . . here are a few. . . http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=273 http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/03/23/MNGAOHSE4I1.DTL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted August 25, 2006 Author Share Posted August 25, 2006 Chom, if the Dems win big this election and take control of gov't in the near future I'm going to hold you to these claims. I will hold the accountable too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Ok half of those on the list are not even policies, they are saracstic rhetoric soundbytes, (17,13,14,16,18,19)Also, some of those such as Government Run Healthcare/Childcare are not Mainstream Democratic views, they are MY views as a progressive, but the head honchos in the Democrat party are not pushing for that. Any of those with the word "reform" can get thrown out, because everyone agrees that they need reform, it is how you define reform, and what reform entails, everyone wants reform, they just don't agree how to reform it. The majority are AGAINST hate crime legislation....gun control !?! See my entire point in this was to point out that the "loony left" or whatever tagline Rush decided to use today, does not rule the Democratic party. I know the Democrats are left of Republicans, but they aren't some fringe left-wing group, they are just people who disagree with Republican/Conservative philosophy. Me, myself, I would consider myself a progressive, a little more left then the mainstream Democratic Party and I can say FOR SURE that the Democratic party doesn't represent my platform, across the board and there is plenty of issues I have with them, and think there are a lot of important issues they don't address. Ok half of those on the list are not even policies, they are saracstic rhetoric soundbytes, (17,13,14,16,18,19)Also, some of those such as Government Run Healthcare/Childcare are not Mainstream Democratic views, they are MY views as a progressive, but the head honchos in the Democrat party are not pushing for that. Any of those with the word "reform" can get thrown out, because everyone agrees that they need reform, it is how you define reform, and what reform entails, everyone wants reform, they just don't agree how to reform it. The majority are AGAINST hate crime legislation....gun control !?! Lighten up man, some of my list was indeed tounge-in-cheek. I don’t think you meant to include 16 because that is certainly a Dem position and Al Gore proposed the government run childcare a few times. In case you don’t remember, one of the potential Dem candidates for president actually tried to Socialize 1/7th of our economy, so saying single payer is not a mainstream Democrat view is disingenuous. Democrats are against hate crime laws? That’s news to me. The entire Liberal platform is blatant socialism and you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Getting out of Iraq – really? Balancing the budget – what a total joke, the minute they are back in power the spigot will open eliminating corporate welfare – I agree and support this 100% keeping jobs in the US – Yeah, we need more union shop guys turning screws for $50 and hour immigration reform (the righties did nothing for 6 years) – and democrats did nothing for 40 years. Neither party is credible on the issue. eliminating pork spending – You are killing me LMAO making government transparent – Yawn, until another Clinton gets in office and we will have another 8 years of bureaucratic snafus, FBI files, IRS audits, vanishing email databanks, coffees with arms dealers, technology transfers for campaign cash, etc. etc. giving people their rights back – what right have you lost? creating fair voting machines which are transparent – I love it when Democrats, the kings of voter fraud, try to talk about this issue giving middle income americans tax breaks for school and child care – I’ll believe it when I see it funding alternative energies and transforming our economy from an oil based one – funding them with my money right? Of course this takes time and we need to developed BOTH oil and alternatives in the short to medium term eliminating corruption in the House and Senate – Another laugher, yeah the Democrats are so pure Also, I don't remember seeing welfare being part of their platform, and why is it bad to make people get a backround check before purchasing a weapon? Do you want to hand out M-16s to Al Qaeda? Terrorist sympathiser We both know the liberal position on guns goes much farther than just a background checks, and please try not to be such a drama queen. Yeah, I want to hand out AKs to Al Qaeda… ...but I should be able to buy one . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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