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SUNSTONE

By SUNSTONE
in The Tailgate

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herrmag

herrmag

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What BJ Penn did was wrong too. Who cares if I never said anything about Penn's choke? That doesn't make it right. Who am I, Dana White?

The Babalu choke was wrong and it is against the rules, end of story. You can't argue that it's not against UFC rules or that the NSAC doesn't find it wrong because they obviously do.

As I mentioned earlier, Babalu has already lost half of his purse on that fight and the NSAC will allegedly be reviewing it again this Friday so he will likely face other punishment, not to mention what the UFC will do about it.

I agree with you. BJ doing it doesn't make it okay. In fact, BJ's a bit of a ****head too, so I'm not sure why he should persuade anyone to feel one way or another.

It sets a poor precedent for all fighters. If Dana had let this slide, other fighters may have thought it was okay to try and do. Perhaps less talented fighters. Perhaps fighters that aren't necessarily submission experts.....

Regardless, it lends credence to those that claim UFC is nothing more than barbarism. Two thugs in the ring trying to KILL each other.

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StillUnknown

StillUnknown

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I also enjoyed UFC 75 - the event had some good fights. I am a bit confused about UFC75, though: I've heard it is being broadcast on-air for free, but I've also seen the event advertised as a pay-per-view event.

the free version will be shown at 8pm or sometime close to that hour on spike tv, but it won't be live. it will simply be a tape-delay.

the live version will be available on ppv or *cough* streams *cough* around 3pm(est) when it is happening live in London

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Sebowski

Sebowski

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Perhaps fighters that aren't necessarily submission experts.....

Regardless, it lends credence to those that claim UFC is nothing more than barbarism. Two thugs in the ring trying to KILL each other.

First off, Babalu is as much of a submission expert as they come.

Secondly, I think I found a better to say waht I've been trying to get across about this topic:

By making a big deal about this now (when it never was before) because you don't want people to think the sport is barbaric lends credence to the critics who call it barbaric. When I fell in love with the sport it was happening witout much of a problem. Two months ago when it happened it wasn't a big deal. Making it a big deal about the practice now only because you're afraid of what the critics will say validates those critics. We don't need to change our sport to appeal to the people who hate it. The rules in the octagon and how they are enforced are fine for the most part. It is the critics and the commisions (they are still really boxing commisions) that need to adapt to the sport. At least that s my feeling anyway.

Hope that makes sense.

I'm in for the agree to disagree deal, and I am dreading the day that Kizer makes his ruling. He is still ignorant about mma and has an ego bigger tan Butterbean.

Edit: I predict he keeps Babalu's 25k (too bad he wasn't a worse fighter and only recieved 8k for winning :doh: ), and suspends him for a year. I just hope Babalu has a good lawyer and/or ignores them and keeps makng his living utside the commisions in Hawaii (like Nick Diaz is doing in Septmeber) or in Japan. It will be too bad though ecause Babalu still has a lot of interesting fights left here in the continental US. I still really want to see him destrot Tito since Tito called him a chump before the Babalu-Chuck fight.

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herrmag

herrmag

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First off, Babalu is as much of a submission expert as they come.

That was the point. But what happens when a fighter that isn't a sub expert and isn't used to pulling a choke tries to hold on a bit longer? It's poor sportsmanship, and it is dangerous. Not everyone reacts the same to being choked out. When a REFEREE tells you to stop, you stop. There is no grey area IMO.

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d0ublestr0ker0ll

d0ublestr0ker0ll

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Fedor to meet with UFC officials today

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=8793

If they pick up Fedor, the UFC will be the hands-down dominant MMA organization probably for good.

Been looking forward to this, like every other fan of the UFC, for a long time. Here's to hoping Zuffa makes the offer of their lives. :applause: :applause: :applause:

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StillUnknown

StillUnknown

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Me too but they'd be turning down a HUGE opportunity if they don't sign him for some dumb reason like not wanting him to participate in his sambo tournaments. I wouldn't be concerned about injury with a guy like him.

i would, he has a history of having somewhat brittle hands (has had to reschedule fights because of it)

i blame Dana White for alot of things, but if they're going to break the bank to sign him, then i can understand their concern of him being injured. anything can happen (remeber Randleman's suplexing him, an inch or two to either way, and Fedor could've easily been paralyzed.)

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Sebowski

Sebowski

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I'm not going to get back into this right now. Maybe again after Kizer suspends him. :doh:

i would, he has a history of having somewhat brittle hands (has had to reschedule fights because of it)

i blame Dana White for alot of things, but if they're going to break the bank to sign him, then i can understand their concern of him being injured. anything can happen (remeber Randleman's suplexing him, an inch or two to either way, and Fedor could've easily been paralyzed.)

I don't think Sambo (I think I've seen it before - Fedor vs. his brother Aelksander - but it may have been something else) has punching so his hands should be safe. But you are right that "anything can happen" . I just don't think it it is reasonably likely that it could happen in Sambo.

I fear that the bridge between the two sides is his used car salesman of a manager who wants Fedor's training partners to have contracts, and wants the UFC to go to Russia with him sharing the profits.

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Sebowski

Sebowski

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I will add this though:

Five Ounces also took the opportunity to get Barnett’s comments about Renato Sobral’s contract not being renewed by the UFC. Barnett cornered Sobral for his fight against David Heath at UFC 74 this past Saturday. UFC president Dana White announced that Sobral’s contract has not been “renewed” and I asked Barnett that if the decision was indeed based on the extended choke applied to Heath if he felt the punishment was fair?

“I think it’s completely overblown and an overreaction. It takes two to tango. Why didn’t he release David Heath? Babalu said not a single unkind word about David Heath leading into that fight. Everything was just fine until he decided to get in Babalu’s face and call him an MF’er. He provoked the guy. This is someone that’s been fighting since the Vale Tudo days of Brazil. Maybe to sportswriters and fans it was a really ugly scenario — and you know what, if I had known he was going to do something like that I would have told him not to — but it’s not uncommon. It’s not something as a fighter — and I’ve been in this business 11 years — I have seen it more than I can count on both hands and both toes. That happens. Things happen.

“First off, if you’re going to provoke somebody then they now have a little extra incentive to come after you. That’s something you created and if the NSAC wants to fine or suspend, they’re going to make their decision. But I think it’s really ridiculous to put him to the floor and treat him like that when Dana, if he’s really hip to MMA and he’s used to follow it then he knows what’s going on, and he’s just trying to play a part in the media to make the CYA real happy at the expense of Babalu.

“Should he have done that? No, I don’t think he should have. Plus, with all the blood everywhere and the very dominating performance he put to David Heath, it made it look even worse. But it’s not just a simple matter of this guy was trying to hurt him. And you know what? People pass out all the time from refusing to tap and nobody faults them for that. It’s certainly within their own control.

“If I remember, B.J. Penn held a choke long on Jens Pulver and we don’t see him getting released from his contract?”

An excerpt taken from a recent interview (sorry if posted)

http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2007/08/...to-dana-white/

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#98QBKiller

#98QBKiller

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I don't think Sambo (I think I've seen it before - Fedor vs. his brother Aelksander - but it may have been something else) has punching so his hands should be safe. But you are right that "anything can happen" . I just don't think it it is reasonably likely that it could happen in Sambo.

Yeah I don't think he has to worry about hand injuries in sambo. Didn't he only have one hand injury though? I didn't think it was an ongoing problem.

i would, he has a history of having somewhat brittle hands (has had to reschedule fights because of it)

i blame Dana White for alot of things, but if they're going to break the bank to sign him, then i can understand their concern of him being injured. anything can happen (remeber Randleman's suplexing him, an inch or two to either way, and Fedor could've easily been paralyzed.)

If UFC wants to be the best organization out there, then they will break the bank and sign Fedor. Their heavyweight division, which basically consisted of just Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski about 10 months ago, is now very deep and very interesting.

Fedor would have the most competition in the UFC and if he's thrown in the mix there are so many scenarios that can happen.

I do think that Fedor's people want to see some events in Russia, and while the UFC are planning on going worldwide (starting in about a week actually, it's only London, but that's a start in going international) I don't see them having events in Russia anytime soon.

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StillUnknown

StillUnknown

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If UFC wants to be the best organization out there, then they will break the bank and sign Fedor. Their heavyweight division, which basically consisted of just Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski about 10 months ago, is now very deep and very interesting.

Fedor would have the most competition in the UFC and if he's thrown in the mix there are so many scenarios that can happen.

I do think that Fedor's people want to see some events in Russia, and while the UFC are planning on going worldwide (starting in about a week actually, it's only London, but that's a start in going international) I don't see them having events in Russia anytime soon.

Fedor's management is being a little unreasonable in my opinion. Asking for the UFC to take on other fighters associated with Fedor's camp is asking a bit much, the fighting in russia thing can be worked out, as i don't think the ufc would mine expanding out. Fedor's team has to be willing to meet Dana part of the way to get the contract done.

Fedor is the best out, but he hasn't fought a legit heavyweight in a while now, time for him to fight the best of best (including Barnett, which i would love to see happen).

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SUNSTONE

SUNSTONE

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Fedor isn't super human, he may be past his prime with his hand.

They asked him why he didn't sub CroCop, he said he didn't have the hand strength due to injurys.

Josh Barnette is no match for Fedor, I don't even think he has a punchers chance.

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Sebowski

Sebowski

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Fedor isn't super human, he may be past his prime with his hand.

They asked him why he didn't sub CroCop, he said he didn't have the hand strength due to injurys.

Josh Barnett is no match for Fedor, I don't even think he has a punchers chance.

You haven't seen enough of Josh Barnett. He won't knock Fedor out. He will control and submit him. Mark Hunt was able to get on top of Fedor; Barnett can get on top of Fedor; Barnett on top=Barnett victory.

Babalu probably got dumped for 2 reasons.

1. He isn't a contender. There will be plenty of fighters to take his place.

2. Make an example out of him for that choke. He is expendable after all.

You are right. Here is BJ and babalu back to back

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=631757&page=3

I wonder if Dana is shrewd enough to know that Babalu is good enough to be the 205 champ in any other fed out there, and that since he has such bad losses to Chuck that Babalu being a champ elsewhere may make the UFC look better.

I also read that Heath isn't upset about it. I think that means a lot.

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BigMike619

BigMike619

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did anyone else hear on ESPN that Coutore fought with a broken arm?

and F Babalu..he screwed himself here..but honestly if they cut him, they should have cut BJ Penn when he didnt release Paulver. i tihnk the only difference is that Penn didnt make those idiotic comments in the post fight interview.

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SUNSTONE

SUNSTONE

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You haven't seen enough of Josh Barnett. He won't knock Fedor out. He will control and submit him. Mark Hunt was able to get on top of Fedor; Barnett can get on top of Fedor; Barnett on top=Barnett victory.

You are right. Here is BJ and babalu back to back

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=631757&page=3

I wonder if Dana is shrewd enough to know that Babalu is good enough to be the 205 champ in any other fed out there, and that since he has such bad losses to Chuck that Babalu being a champ elsewhere may make the UFC look better.

I also read that Heath isn't upset about it. I think that means a lot.

Fedor is just too strong, and too skilled.

If Nog can't beat Fedor on the ground then Josh doesn't have a chance.

Crocop not only controlled Josh on the ground, he ground n pounded into submission.

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SUNSTONE

SUNSTONE

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There is a big difference with Penn.

Penn is a contender, and an exchamp.

He puts up a much much better fight than babalou, he'll be around for awhile even when he is past his ability to be a contender.

Unless Rampage retires Chuck is no longer a contender.:silly: :laugh:

It's funny because it is sooo true.

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