Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling

[Cooked Crack]

Can someone tell me what GSP is doing? Is this suppose to help in the fight? Just incase fitch went for a purple nurple?

[mvisit1]

LOL at the guy above me. However, it makes me feel like I'm the only person in here saying anything of substance. I dropped 2 pearls of wisdom on the previous page and I have yet to hear a response. I wanna talk MMA and all I hear is Brock this, whine that, and GSP is licking his nipples? LOL

[ZoEd]

Just playing devil's advocate...

In boxing, the undefeated P4P kings like Mayweather and Roy Jones Jr. (undefeated until late in his career) were often criticized for playing it safe and not fighting the exciting fight. Fans love a war but bobbing, weaving, throwing pot shots, and out pointing your opponent wins fights.

In MMA, this makes me think of going for takedown points, "laying and praying" in someone's guard, and throwing little kidney punches hoping to grind out a decision.

Is this what you speak of?

Not really. I just wonder if sometimes the fights are "orchestrated" to put on a show. In the WWE it's the ref quietly orchestrating the action telling the wrestlers when to keep it going and when to wrap it up. By no means am I saying that this is going on in the UFC but I often wonder if pre fight the fighters are prompted to fight a certain way to put on a show.

Heath Herring said after the Kongo fight "I thought he was going to stand with me so we could put on a show for the fans".

I know and understand completely that this is fighting for entertainment purposes but why would anyone fight another fighters game just to put on a show? I question seasoned veterans suddenly going away from their gameplan when it was obviously working early in the fight. For example, Hendo against Silva. I know Silva causes matchup problems but I find it difficult to imagine Hendo suddenly thinking it would be a good idea to stand and strike with Silva. Why suddenly go away from the dirty boxing or the clinch? I think the UFC has it's golden boys that they want to pimp and may create matchups in that persons favor. Anytime you throw money at guys for putting on a good show you're going to get fighters doing stupid **** to get paid.

I just don't understand it and think it kind of tarnishes the legitimacy of the orginization and the sport of MMA. :2cents:

[Sebowski]

LOL at the guy above me. However, it makes me feel like I'm the only person in here saying anything of substance. I dropped 2 pearls of wisdom on the previous page and I have yet to hear a response. I wanna talk MMA and all I hear is Brock this, whine that, and GSP is licking his nipples? LOL

I think we've already had those conversations before. I just hope the stuff you said has become "MMA common sense" by now.

[Sebowski]

Not really. I just wonder if sometimes the fights are "orchestrated" to put on a show. In the WWE it's the ref quietly orchestrating the action telling the wrestlers when to keep it going and when to wrap it up. By no means am I saying that this is going on in the UFC but I often wonder if pre fight the fighters are prompted to fight a certain way to put on a show.

Heath Herring said after the Kongo fight "I thought he was going to stand with me so we could put on a show for the fans".

I know and understand completely that this is fighting for entertainment purposes but why would anyone fight another fighters game just to put on a show? I question seasoned veterans suddenly going away from their gameplan when it was obviously working early in the fight. For example, Hendo against Silva. I know Silva causes matchup problems but I find it difficult to imagine Hendo suddenly thinking it would be a good idea to stand and strike with Silva. Why suddenly go away from the dirty boxing or the clinch? I think the UFC has it's golden boys that they want to pimp and may create matchups in that persons favor. Anytime you throw money at guys for putting on a good show you're going to get fighters doing stupid **** to get paid.

I just don't understand it and think it kind of tarnishes the legitimacy of the orginization and the sport of MMA. :2cents:

It sounds like you are saying it, and you are crazy.

it is a fight in there. Like Tyson said, "everyone has a plan until they get hit in the face". Henderson was executing his gameplan well in the first, but it went out the window in the second. That happens in fights all the time. You have to give credit to Silva for making Dan fight his fight. That is a part of it.

There is no way Dan stood with him because he was "prompted" to.

[StillUnknown]

Can someone tell me what GSP is doing? Is this suppose to help in the fight? Just incase fitch went for a purple nurple?

at least GSP wasn't molested by his cornerman:

[#98QBKiller]

at least GSP wasn't molested by his cornerman:

Not only was he molested by Brock Lesnar but also by his cornerman :laugh:

[ZoEd]

It sounds like you are saying it, and you are crazy.

it is a fight in there. Like Tyson said, "everyone has a plan until they get hit in the face". Henderson was executing his gameplan well in the first, but it went out the window in the second. That happens in fights all the time. You have to give credit to Silva for making Dan fight his fight. That is a part of it.

There is no way Dan stood with him because he was "prompted" to.

Actually I'm not really saying it I'm just questioning it.

I actually gave credit to Silva and I realize getting hit in the face will change your tune real quick. However, don't you think there's a chance that fighters are encouraged to put on a good show as opposed to fighting to win? Look how glorified the Griffin/Bonner fight was made. Dana all but blew the both of them in the ring. Was it great fight? It was an excellent brawl but I wouldn't necessarily call it a great MMA fight. Mixed Martial Arts, not backyard brawl.

When Forrest came back after getting KTFO by Jardine I was watching the fight with some friends and all they could talk about was how scared he looked and how cautious he was being. Duh, fighting with wreckless abandon is what got him knocked out. What I saw was a smart MMA fighter utilizing leg kicks and some ground game to control and win a fight. Boring, compared to the old Forrest yes. Smart, most definitely. I'm just afraid "putting on a show" is going to become more important than fighting a good technical, smart fight because that's what gets the WWE, I mean UFC fans out of their seats.

I'm all for a war in the octagon but don't put guys in there for the sake of putting on a show. Put guys in there that deserve to be in there. Let the fighters fight.

[Chachie]

A lot fighters play to the crowd. Mayhem Miller, Nate Diaz, even Randy Couture when he spanked Tito.

Let's not get our panties in a bunch over it.

Not to mention every fighter that hops up on the top of the cage when they get a KO or sub.

I got no problem with Lesnar's celebration but I will say his persona is better served just being happy and humble. He's kinda nerdy and the braggadocio doesn't come across very well. Spider Silva is funny. Chuck's move is time-tested and well received. Rampage's howl is simply awesome. Brock Lesnar should stay "strong and silent" though. IMHO it would just suit him better, at least until he's won 5-6 fights. He's huge. No need for an over the top improvisation from a man who suffers from a hard lack of "cool."

And sometimes I bunch my panties for fun, Bowsk. That's right. Just for fun.

[mvisit1]

It's a give and take with the whole "put on a show" thing. The better the show you put on, the more fans like it, the more PPV you sell, the more money you make. Tough to not want to put on a good show. Remember, this IS how these guys make a living. They're "Professional" Fighters. That's the difference between pro and amateur fighting, there's money involved.

Don't you go to work to make money to put a roof over your head, food on the table and clothes on your back? Don't you do the things that you do at work to try and get noticed to get that promotion/make more money than the next guy so that you can get a better house, better car/clothes and/or extend your lifestyle onto a spouse/kids? It's no different in the UFC, except their cubicle is an octagon.

What IS keeping the sport pure is the fact that these guys are really fighting! The blood's real, the strikes are real, and the winner isn't pre-picked. I'm happy with that.

[ZoEd]

It's a give and take with the whole "put on a show" thing. The better the show you put on, the more fans like it, the more PPV you sell, the more money you make. Tough to not want to put on a good show. Remember, this IS how these guys make a living. They're "Professional" Fighters. That's the difference between pro and amateur fighting, there's money involved.

Don't you go to work to make money to put a roof over your head, food on the table and clothes on your back? Don't you do the things that you do at work to try and get noticed to get that promotion/make more money than the next guy so that you can get a better house, better car/clothes and/or extend your lifestyle onto a spouse/kids? It's no different in the UFC, except their cubicle is an octagon.

What IS keeping the sport pure is the fact that these guys are really fighting! The blood's real, the strikes are real, and the winner isn't pre-picked. I'm happy with that.

I agree with you as long as the fighters are allowed to fight to win and not just fight to put on a show. I was hypothesising, making a what if or hmmm isn't it possible. I didn't say that the fights are staged or that foul play is involved. I was making the point that anytime money is involved the potential is there. I was making the point that there are times I feel like the show is more important than winning, again no one seems to want to take on Joe Rogans comment about losing and putting on a good show is as important as winning.

As much as I love this sport and what the UFC has done with it I still have reservations about the direction it is going. I love the "science" of the sport and the dedication these guys have to have to be at the top. I just want it to stay that way and not become a three ring circus where people are showing up just to see the blood and the fighters find themselves in a situation where the only way they're going to get a big payday is by either knocking someone out or getting knocked out just to make fans happy.

I honestly can't believe that none of you have this fear.

[Sebowski]

I agree with you as long as the fighters are allowed to fight to win and not just fight to put on a show. I was hypothesising, making a what if or hmmm isn't it possible. I didn't say that the fights are staged or that foul play is involved. I was making the point that anytime money is involved the potential is there. I was making the point that there are times I feel like the show is more important than winning, again no one seems to want to take on Joe Rogans comment about losing and putting on a good show is as important as winning.

As much as I love this sport and what the UFC has done with it I still have reservations about the direction it is going. I love the "science" of the sport and the dedication these guys have to have to be at the top. I just want it to stay that way and not become a three ring circus where people are showing up just to see the blood and the fighters find themselves in a situation where the only way they're going to get a big payday is by either knocking someone out or getting knocked out just to make fans happy.

I honestly can't believe that none of you have this fear.

Like mvist said, it is a give and take. When you are a nobody putting on a show can be just as important as winning. I don't have a problem with that. A fighter can boring if they are undefeated. They will still get to move on. But once they lose, they go away (See: O'Brien, Jake). The reason I cam ok wit that is to be boring means that you are one-dimensional. That will get exposed eventually anyway. Instead of working on LnP all day at the gym they should focus on being complete fighters so they can try to finish fights instead of drawing out decisions. Maybe that is a better way to look at it. Fights these days are only 15 minutes long, and no one is ever happy with a decision. Trying to finish a fight is worth a reward. Waiting for the judges to hand you a victory isn't.

I know what Rogan said, I believe he meant fighters who try to finish fights have a better chance of coming back then fighters who win boring decisions. And I agree with that.

[mvisit1]

no one seems to want to take on Joe Rogans comment about losing and putting on a good show is as important as winning.

As much as I love this sport and what the UFC has done with it I still have reservations about the direction it is going. I love the "science" of the sport and the dedication these guys have to have to be at the top. I just want it to stay that way and not become a three ring circus where people are showing up just to see the blood and the fighters find themselves in a situation where the only way they're going to get a big payday is by either knocking someone out or getting knocked out just to make fans happy.

I honestly can't believe that none of you have this fear.

Joe's comment...hmmm...winning is important but so is putting on a good show so no argument there.

As for your fear, I'm not afraid as of right now. When the fighters stop training wrestling & BJJ and I see training clips of them just throwing haymakers on the mitts then I'll be worried.

[StillUnknown]

i think the whole "its better to lose in a war, than to win a boring fight" does hold some weight. with the evolution of the sport, we've seen classic fights that were fought with skill, not just brawling.

i completely agree with the poster who said something along the lines of if you're going to win boring, you have pretty much better stay undefeated. nobody likes to see a fight hit the ground and stall. the Maia/McDonald fight spent most of the fight on the ground and the crowd never boo'd once because it was still exciting. then you have other fights were fighters don't even attempt to pass or do anything offensive.

as long as MMA is on any form of TV, you have to take excitement seriously, otherwise you risk diminishing your audience.

[mvisit1]

"its better to lose in a war, than to win a boring fight"

I like that, Joe Rogan should have said that instead of "putting on a show is just as important as winning" or however it was worded.

[#98QBKiller]

"its better to lose in a war, than to win a boring fight"

That explains why Machida owns a perfect record over solid fighters but can't get much fan support behind him.

[ZoEd]

That explains why Machida owns a perfect record over solid fighters but can't get much fan support behind him.

That was going to be my next example. The other end of the spectrum is why Chris Leben keeps getting big fights when he keeps getting beat. The dude is a brick with fists, exciting fights though. :applause:

As for Machida, dude is pretty damn good. I hate watching him fight but damn the dude is allusive as Joe Rogan so eloquently pointed out about 5,000 times during his last fight. However, when you hear talk about the 205 guys and heir apparents you never hear him mentioned. IMO he's got as good of a shot as anyone else. He's not going to stand around and allow someone like Rampage use his head for a punching bag.

Where's Machida's shot? When will he get it? I guess when he learns how to put on a good show. Dude is boring though. Good, but damn his fights are pretty boring.

[#98QBKiller]

That was going to be my next example. The other end of the spectrum is why Chris Leben keeps getting big fights when he keeps getting beat. The dude is a brick with fists, exciting fights though. :applause:

As for Machida, dude is pretty damn good. I hate watching him fight but damn the dude is allusive as Joe Rogan so eloquently pointed out about 5,000 times during his last fight. However, when you hear talk about the 205 guys and heir apparents you never hear him mentioned. IMO he's got as good of a shot as anyone else. He's not going to stand around and allow someone like Rampage use his head for a punching bag.

Where's Machida's shot? When will he get it? I guess when he learns how to put on a good show. Dude is boring though. Good, but damn his fights are pretty boring.

If he beats Thiago Silva they can't really deny him a shot without looking overly suspicous. With the only exception probably being Chuck (which will prob be the guy to get the next shot with a win over Rashad).

We haven't seen Machida fight someone really aggressive. I was really hoping to see him go up against Wanderlei or Rampage but I doubt we'll see either of those anytime soon...maybe Wanderlei.

[StillUnknown]

That explains why Machida owns a perfect record over solid fighters but can't get much fan support behind him.

Machida's stand up is equivalent to a wrestler's lay n pray.

guys like him will have to beat virtually everyone in the division before they get a shot at the title

remember it wasn't long ago that Sherk was getting boo'd by the crowd for being a "lay n pray" type with the belt

[#98QBKiller]

remember it wasn't long ago that Sherk was getting boo'd by the crowd for being a "lay n pray" type with the belt

Very true....now he just gets boo'd for juicing :laugh:

[mvisit1]

I don't see what the problem with Machida's stand up is. He hits you and then he's gone when you go to hit him back. Isn't that the idea? I personally don't like to stand there and get hit.

[StillUnknown]

I don't see what the problem with Machida's stand up is. He hits you and then he's gone when you go to hit him back. Isn't that the idea? I personally don't like to stand there and get hit.

there's not a problem with the success of his standup, because it is very successful. it just that it can be boring alot of times. lay n pray is successful as well, but its not exciting.

[#98QBKiller]

I don't see what the problem with Machida's stand up is. He hits you and then he's gone when you go to hit him back. Isn't that the idea? I personally don't like to stand there and get hit.

Technically, there's no problem (so far) with his stand up because it wins fights. But like someone else said, it is the standing equivalent of lay and pray. His striking is boring because he fights for points and doesn't go for the kill. He has a Karate background so that's where that point fighting comes from in his style.

[mvisit1]

It's something about that cage...Machida's other fights in rings were pretty damn good...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kptigxw1YI&feature=related

[Sebowski]

Holy $&@! Cro Cop is pissed!

mmamania

"Regarding [DREAM 6 on] September 23, I’m expected to fight, but nothing is still officially confirmed. I leave this to DREAM and I have no doubt that I’ll be there on that card, fighting whoever they put me against. I’m hoping to face a top ranked fighter, preferably Alistair Overeem. I’m familiar with his latest interviews and many people already asking me what do I think about his words. I don’t like commenting other fighters, it’s not my thing. But Alistair, you should save your strength for a real fight, because it’s coming. When I see you in the opposite corner, then I’ll talk."

I would love to see Cro Cop on top of his game again.