Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling

[#98QBKiller]

Dana's response to the Strikeforce news:

"Fedor is a f---ing joke," UFC President Dana White responded Monday after learning that Emelianenko had signed with Strikeforce. “He turns down a huge deal and the opportunity to face the best in the world to fight nobodies for no money!"

I guess money can't buy everything. I would've rather seen Fedor go to the UFC like every other fan in the world but realistically, fights with Overeem, Werdum, Rogers and even Barnett in Japan via co-promotions aren't "nobodies" (not that I expect any less out of Dana).

[StillUnknown]

we all could've guessed dana's response. lol

[Samuels]

Brock would/will beat Fedor if the fight ever happens i'm willing to back it up with my wallet. I think Rodgers is a very dangerous fight for Fedor especially if his chin is good.

If Arona can mount Fedor and really dominate him in my opinion, then Brock would smother him. And yes i realize that fight was awhile ago. But lets be real Fedor is about 230lbs and Brock cuts weight to make 265lb limit. He probably weighs 275-280lbs on fight night plus he is a legit world class wrestler and great athlete. :chair:

[cjcdaman]

Dana didn't think Fedor was a joke because he offered him all that money. Dana is crying and whining like a spoiled kid because he didn't get his way. Period.

[NoCalMike]

I feel like I am just repeating myself so I'll keep it short.

It isn't how many wins Brock had, it is how he has been fighting that is important. And it won't matter if Brock loses if he looks good bbefore he loses. He lost to Mir and was still the favorite in the rematch because he was so dominate before getting caught. This is a new sport. Get used to these phenoms coming in and having success quickly. In a few years fighters will have been training specicically for MMA(and the UFC at that) their whole lives.

Arlovski and Sylvia ARE UFC rejects.

UFC=NFL

The rest=CFL

Warren Moon didn't make the hall of fame based on his CFL numkbers, he did it in the NFL, and that made people respect his CFL numbers.

Fedor going to Strikeforce is good for him. He can ease his way in to the cage and American rules. He should have no problem with any if their fighters as they are not the type who use the cage to their advantage like so many UFC guys. Fedor's flaw though is that he fights like BJ and Diaz. Where ever the fight is is where he'll fight. He won't look to exploit a weakness (See: him not taking Arlovski down early). This could hurt him against Overeem and Rogers.

His Strikeforce deal is probably non-exclusive, so I bet he fights in Japa as well. A New Year's Eve fight with Barnett would be awesome. That would be HUGE in Japan. I'd even stay up till 4 to watch it.

I agree that UFC is the NFL of MMA. Never disputed that, but being the "NFL" doesn't necessarily mean they have every elite fighter out there under their tent. And it doesn't mean Fedor can't make a fine living outside of the UFC. Dana White's quote that was posted in this thread sums up my feelings on him. He is acting like a spoiled baby. First Fedor is "overrated" then as soon as he has the chance to sign him he CLAIMS he threw all sorts of money at him, and then when Fedor decides to go elsewhere, suddenly he's a joke. It is possible there was much more to the contract then Dana and the Fertitas would lead on to the public.

As far as Sylvia & Arlovsky being "UFC rejects" I would like a definition of what makes a former UFC fighter a UFC reject. Is it someone who has held a title belt, because both have in their respective devision while under UFC. Also, Dana White was quoted saying not resigning Arlovsky was his biggest regret, of course he would never admit it now after getitng walloped by Fedor and Brett Rogers. Does this mean Nick Diaz is a UFC reject as well? What about Josh Barnett?

As far as Fedor v. Brock. Fedor has technique on his feet that no current UFC heavyweight possess. Fedor creates angles, he doesn't just stand in front of his opponent or come straight forward like Mir & Herring did. He also isnt as slow & plodding as Couture now is. Where as Brock's advantage over everyone is his huge size difference, a fighter like Fedor would use that to his own advantage being much faster, faster hands. Now, Fedor is still human, if Brock took him down, got on top in a dominant position, the fight is probably over. It's a good fight to see eventually, but if you think about it, why wouldn't it benefit all parties for Brock to win maybe three more fights, clean out his division and by that time Fedor will probably be a true free agent, with no ties to any other company.

As far as "How Brock is winning" Hell, there have been tons of fighters to come through the door and pull off a few wins, be on top of the world, and then all it takes is for the right trainer to find a flaw in their game and their done. I remember Houston Alexander came in and KO'd Jardine, got on a nice streak, folks were talking title fight, and then he got KTFO by Thiago Silva.

Not that I think Brock will go the way of Alexander, but my point is, people who want to annoint Brock the second coming are too heavily buying into the UFC business model rather then how this sport really works.

[Sebowski]

Brock would/will beat Fedor if the fight ever happens i'm willing to back it up with my wallet. I think Rodgers is a very dangerous fight for Fedor especially if his chin is good.

If Arona can mount Fedor and really dominate him in my opinion, then Brock would smother him. And yes i realize that fight was awhile ago. But lets be real Fedor is about 230lbs and Brock cuts weight to make 265lb limit. He probably weighs 275-280lbs on fight night plus he is a legit world class wrestler and great athlete. :chair:

Fedor would knock him out.

[Sebowski]

lol

[Chachie]

Brock Lesnar looks indestructible right now but I'm just waiting for that ONE punch to change all that and have this fickle fanbase completely doubting him again. He hasn't been hit with it yet.

Fedor's been hit with it about 50 times and always won. We'll see how Lesnar fares when that punch lands.

[StillUnknown]

Brock Lesnar looks indestructible right now but I'm just waiting for that ONE punch to change all that and have this fickle fanbase completely doubting him again. He hasn't been hit with it yet.

Fedor's been hit with it about 50 times and always won. We'll see how Lesnar fares when that punch lands.

i dont think Brock's going down from one shot. i think he has shown a good chin. that knee Mir hit him with was flush and it barely dazed brock

[#98QBKiller]

i dont think Brock's going down from one shot. i think he has shown a good chin. that knee Mir hit him with was flush and it barely dazed brock

I don't know, I really think Carwin could drop him with one shot. I'll wait until after Carwin/Velasquez to completely jump on Carwin's bandwagon but I think he has that one hitter quitter that could drop about anyone.

Also, here's a pretty good opinion piece on why we shouldn't be completely upset that Fedor went to Strikefoce:

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/three-for-three-evaluating-the-ufcstrikeforce-talent-gap-18893

Three for Three: Evaluating the UFC/Strikeforce Talent Gap

Tuesday, August 04, 2009

Jake Rossen

I’m sure you’ve heard the news by now: according to researchers, fat babies have a 40% greater chance of becoming fat toddlers.

Of significantly less consequence is the report that Fedor Emelianenko has signed a three-fight deal with Strikeforce that’s likely to begin in the fall. The common reaction from both fans and UFC honchos has been the idea that Emelianenko simply isn’t interested in testing himself against top competition.

For the sake of argument: while the UFC holds a majority share of quality heavyweights, the idea that Emelianenko’s legacy will be tainted by never making eye contact with them is a stretch.

Consider:

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira: A non-entity where Emelianenko is concerned. He loses a fourth fight only if he fractures both his hands against Nogueira’s skull.

Randy Couture: Legendary, but well into middle age.

Frank Mir: Smashed to pieces by Brock Lesnar, and traditionally weakest where Emelianenko is strongest: dropping nuclear bombs on grounded opponents.

Ben Rothwell, Junior dos Santos, Mirko “Cro Cop” Filipovic, Cheick Kongo: I could think of better ways to spend a Saturday.

Putting aside inter-divisional fights with Anderson Silva or Lyoto Machida -- which would be lots of fun for spectators -- the UFC really has three upper-tier heavyweights with skills that could potentially give Emelianenko a very hard time: Brock Lesnar, Shane Carwin and Cain Velasquez. Three.

Strikeforce can match the ante with Alistair Overeem, Brett Rogers and some kind of wild card entrant: Bobby Lashley, Blagoi Ivanov, perhaps even Josh Barnett.

The proposition that Strikeforce employs air conditioning repairmen and the UFC enlists only Olympic athletes is pushing the envelope; I’d almost sooner see Emelianenko go on a free-agent tear for a year or two before settling in with the UFC, considering that their asphyxiating contracts invite retirement at their conclusions.

Emelianenko will be just fine. So will his career. And so will his fans.

Those damn fat babies are the ones worth worrying about.

[NoCalMike]

For those that say Brock Lesnar won't go down with one shot, that may be true, but where did Mir and Couture have the most success against Brock? On their feet.

If you rewatch the Brock/Couture match, it looked like Randy got the better of the exchanges in the first round, backing Brock up a few times with punches, and he definately did more work in the clinch when he had Lesnar up against the cage.

Mir, probably less so, I'd call it a wash on their feet, but Mir has never been known for his striking it's just that everyone assumed he could strike now, because of his fight with Nog, who has made a career out of getting punched and insane amount of times and waiting for the right moment to submit his opponent.

I agree with the sherdog article. All these people who claim that UFC has all the best heavyweights are simply drinking the Dana White/UFC kool-aid. All three of their top contenders Brock/Carwin/Cain are still very early in their careers. All three could turn out to be superstars or maybe the right trainer could find a flaw in their game and expose them like so many "elite fighters" before them. We simply don't know yet, and rushing to make a Fedor/Lesnar match right now might be the wrong thing. It's obvious that Dana White knows having the match right now is good for business because there is always the chance Fedor loses outside of the UFC, and that Brock loses one of his next fights on his current contract. Either scenario takes away the luster of the fight.

In two years if Fedor still hasn't lost, and Brock is 6-1, just imagine the business that fight will do. All these people who didn't know Fedor, or very much about him, or doubt him will definately be looking for footage on him now, and it will make everyone more knowledgable.

[NoCalMike]

Oh and speaking of "won't go down with one shot" anyone remember when Randlemann dropped Fedor on the back of his neck and head with the suplex? That would have put out most fighters. Fedor pops right back like nothing.....

Hahaha....just sayin'

[StillUnknown]

For those that say Brock Lesnar won't go down with one shot, that may be true, but where did Mir and Couture have the most success against Brock? On their feet.

In two years if Fedor still hasn't lost, and Brock is 6-1, just imagine the business that fight will do. All these people who didn't know Fedor, or very much about him, or doubt him will definately be looking for footage on him now, and it will make everyone more knowledgable.

any fighter can go down with 1-shot, especially in the HW division. hell Mark Hunt's chin is legendary, and he got dropped while Manhoeff was moving backwards. i was just using that to say that i think Brock has shown a pretty good chin thus far when hit. its obvious he's still not completely comfortable standing at a distance. he's shown some decent knees from the clinch, but when fighting at a distance, he's definitely at a technical disadvantage

exactly agree on the other part. Dana's biggest concern right now is either Fedor or Brock losing before that fight can be made. if fedor & brock are still undefeated after fedor's next 3 fights, a potential fight between the two would be that much bigger. also it would be more competitive. Brock is still a rookie in this sport, the more experience he gains will only help him when/if he does eventually meet Fedor

Oh and speaking of "won't go down with one shot" anyone remember when Randlemann dropped Fedor on the back of his neck and head with the suplex? That would have put out most fighters. Fedor pops right back like nothing.....

Hahaha....just sayin'

everytime i watch that fight, i dont understand how he kept his reserve and bearings. you are a different breed when a man slams you like that and your face still looks as relaxed as ever

Edited August 4, 2009 by StillUnknown

[lovetoaster]

I agree with the sherdog article. All these people who claim that UFC has all the best heavyweights are simply drinking the Dana White/UFC kool-aid.

I am not drinking any kool-aid, I just think that Brock is the most interesting fight for Fedor right now. You are right, the UFC's best HW's are relatively young. But I think Brock has a solid chance and Carwin at least poses a threat. I do not think Velasquez really would stand a chance at this point.

I realized that Fedor was not going to go the the UFC with three fights left on his M-1 deal. It just was not going to happen. So I am actually pretty happy that he is in Strikeforce rather than in Japan fighting cans.

That being said, I think the fighters in the UFC pose a greater challenge to Fedor than those in Strikeforce. Does the UFC have all the best heavyweights? Absolutely not. But as a collective group, is there more of a challenge to Fedor in the UFC? I think so.

While I would be interested in, and would definitely watch Fedor vs. Rogers, Werdum and Overeem, I think he wins those fights pretty handily. I mean, he's a freaking machine.

So then a year from now, we are stuck in the same place, only Brock and Fedor are a year older. They are both not young guys anymore, both at 32 now and Fedor turning 33 next month. They are not going to fight forever.

We are probably not going to ever see Fedor and Randy at this point, and (assuming Brock keeps winning fights) it would suck if we did not get to see Fedor vs. Brock.

[Chachie]

i dont think Brock's going down from one shot. i think he has shown a good chin. that knee Mir hit him with was flush and it barely dazed brock

One knee. One frigging knee. Having a good chin is not the same as having a Fedor chin. I'm not knocking Brock but he has NOT been in any real danger from a strike. The only time he was really tested was in Mir's heel hook. He quit. Fedor doesn't quit.

[StillUnknown]

One knee. One frigging knee. Having a good chin is not the same as having a Fedor chin. I'm not knocking Brock but he has NOT been in any real danger from a strike. The only time he was really tested was in Mir's heel hook. He quit. Fedor doesn't quit.

fedor's never really been in danger of a sub, mainly because he's a master at sambo which relies heavily on leg submissions. brock was wrestler with all of 1 fight before fighting a BJJ black belt. he did what he was supposed to do. tapping isn't the same as quitting

being in trouble standing vs. being in trouble on the ground are 2 different scenarios

heel hooks/kneebars/leglocks in general are a different animal. they can go from 0 to 180 in the blink of an eye. one moment your fine, the next you're scheduling surgery for torn tendons and ligaments

[Sebowski]

I keep telling you guys, Brock's chin has been tested over and over again from multiple chair shots.

SU, is right. No matter how good a chin, one shot can always end it. Brock could very easily get caught by a super striker like Kongo, Cro Cop, or even Hardonk. It's called the Petrazelli factor (renamed "from punches chance").

Overeem and Rogers have that with Fedor. Like I said, Fedor isn't big on gameplans. He may standing standing a second to long. Werdum doesn't even belong in the conversation. I wish people would just mentioning him all together.

[#98QBKiller]

The Randleman recovery was impressive as hell. Randleman dropped him square on top of his head with that suplex, I thought Fedor was done for sure. Especially since Randleman had just upset Cro Cop in his previous fight.

Another amazing recovery was the Fujita hit, where Fedor started dancing like Steve Urkel. I thought Fujita was going to TKO him for sure.

[Chachie]

Did you guys see the replay of Leben vs. Martin last night on Spike? Now that's the definition of being tested and coming through with the win. I'm not for one second saying that Chris Leben is a top 5 middleweight like we all know Brock is a top 5 HW, but being tested is defined by someone who is about to lose and reaches deep down inside to get the win. If any of you guys think Brock Lesnar has had that kind of test yet, you are dreaming. I can't say he'll fail when that day comes but I'm absolutely right in saying it's come and gone a few times for Fedor and he's always turned it around in dramatic fashion.

There will come a moment when Brock's sheer strength and huge size won't do a thing to keep his noggin clear and in that moment we'll know if we're witnessing a future HOFer or even someone with UFC longevity. Randy Couture has been there, Nog has been there, Fedor has been there. To say Brock Lesnar has been there is laughable. I can't argue this point any more clearly so I guess any replies will be as they may.

:whoknows:

[Chachie]

The Randleman recovery was impressive as hell. Randleman dropped him square on top of his head with that suplex, I thought Fedor was done for sure. Especially since Randleman had just upset Cro Cop in his previous fight.

Another amazing recovery was the Fujita hit, where Fedor started dancing like Steve Urkel. I thought Fujita was going to TKO him for sure.

The KO of Arlovsky was actually a pretty sweet "comeback." I've watched that fight 4-5 times. Those shots from Arlovsky were hurting Fedor. It was not the same as some of his earlier triumphs but Fedor was getting beat pretty soundly for the opening minute or two. It looked very lopsided until Andre thought it was time for a flying knee. Fedor sucked it up and ended it.

[lovetoaster]

If any of you guys think Brock Lesnar has had that kind of test yet, you are dreaming. I can't say he'll fail when that day comes but I'm absolutely right in saying it's come and gone a few times for Fedor and he's always turned it around in dramatic fashion.

You are right, but who, besides Fedor, is going to give Brock that moment? I can only really see it coming from one person, Carwin. So maybe we will see it early next year.

And while Fedor has made some tremendous recoveries in his career, those were a while back. While almost remarkable, there is no guarantee that the same thing would happen today.

The Arlovski fight was incredible, but I think that was a little different, as you mention. I still can't believe that Arlovski went for that knee...:doh:

[StillUnknown]

UFC 101 Countdown on spike tonight at 11pm(est)

[Chachie]

You are right, but who, besides Fedor, is going to give Brock that moment? I can only really see it coming from one person, Carwin. So maybe we will see it early next year.

And while Fedor has made some tremendous recoveries in his career, those were a while back. While almost remarkable, there is no guarantee that the same thing would happen today.

The Arlovski fight was incredible, but I think that was a little different, as you mention. I still can't believe that Arlovski went for that knee...:doh:

It can come from any really good striker, IMO. I'm trying to recall if Brock's faced one yet. I guess one could say Herring is a sweet striker but he was beaten before the fight started, to Brock's credit.

Andre's biggest "D'oh!" moment.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Chachie

[StillUnknown]

E:60 is doing a follow up segment on Lesnar tonight at 7pm(est) on espn

[StillUnknown]

anderson looks pretty damn big in this shot