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SUNSTONE

By SUNSTONE
in The Tailgate

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JWB

JWB

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Posted (edited)
No, no, no, you should bet against K-fencegrabber-Florian in the Penn fight!!!

I really feel like that fence grab changed the dynamic of the fight. I'm not trying to find excuses for Stevenson because following that they both had their chances and KenFlo fought exceptionally well, it just looked that Florian was about to get smashed when he basically cheated. While I beieve it cost him a point, it allowed him to escape a very vulnerable spot.

Edited by JWB
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Special K

Special K

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I really feel like that fence grab changed the dynamic of the fight. I'm not trying to find excuses for Stevenson because following that they both had their chances and KenFlo fought exceptionally well, it just looked that Florian was about to get smashed when he basically cheated. While I beieve it cost him a point, it allowed him to escape a very vulnerable spot.

Well, he actually got a warning, not a point deduction I think.

However, this is certainly not the first time Florian's grabbed the fence to fight off a key takedown or slam...that's why I can't stand him. If this was the only time he grabbed the fence, I'd be a little more understanding, but I'm sick of his crap. He's a very talented fighter, but I swear to God he should not be getting warnings anymore, it's ridiculous.

After watching what little of the fight there was, I have no doubt Florian would have won now (I was very much rooting for Stevenson however), but the fence grab just infuriated me b/c he's done that bs way more than just this once. That's why I hope Penn destroys Florian when they fight. It'll probably be the only time I seriously root for Penn.

Edited by Special K
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Special K

Special K

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Hey keeastman, was wondering what you think of Kenny Florian.
:silly::silly::silly: Of course I think he's a chicken**** fencegrabbing fighter. I've always thought that, that's why I will never pick Florian in a fight (no matter how much he's favored) and will always hope he's beaten down by his opponent. There are not a lot of guys in wrestling or MMA who I truly dislike as I've seen them train and have a deep respect for what they all do...but Florian is certainly one who I think is a weasle fighter who always grabs the fence before a major slam or takedown and I will never ever have respect for someone like that. Never. Edited by Special K
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d0ublestr0ker0ll

d0ublestr0ker0ll

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:silly::silly::silly: Of course I think he's a chicken**** fencegrabbing fighter. I've always thought that, that's why I will never pick Florian in a fight (no matter how much he's favored) and will always hope he's beaten down by his opponent. There are not a lot of guys in wrestling or MMA who I truly dislike as I've seen them train and have a deep respect for what they all do...but Florian is certainly one who I think is a weasle fighter who always grabs the fence before a major slam or takedown and I will never ever have respect for someone like that. Never.

Well, if you're talking about training ethic, there are few that eat, drink and sleep fighting as much as the Flomeister. I kind of look at it like this, the rule is you get a warning for the first fence grab. It's like a get out of jail free card. Use it! Why not? Take advantage of anything you can when you fight. It isn't "illegal", you just receive a penalty! A warning, then a point deduction. If it were illegal, Stevenson would have won the fight. It's the equivilant of a penalty in football. I didn't HATE Laron after he speared Mushin Mohammed, and I consider that more of a BS move than grabbing the fence.

Thing about it is that Florian does it with great timing, he's a student of the game. Most fighters try to "cheat" the SAME WAY as Florian, they just try to prevent getting tripped or having their back get controlled when they grab the fence. Florian does it in mid-flight, but in essance, they are trying to prevent the same thing from happening. Plenty of people get warned for grabbing the fence.

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Special K

Special K

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Well, if you're talking about training ethic, there are few that eat, drink and sleep fighting as much as the Flomeister. I kind of look at it like this, the rule is you get a warning for the first fence grab. It's like a get out of jail free card. Use it! Why not? Take advantage of anything you can when you fight. It isn't "illegal", you just receive a penalty! A warning, then a point deduction. If it were illegal, Stevenson would have won the fight. It's the equivilant of a penalty in football. I didn't HATE Laron after he speared Mushin Mohammed, and I consider that more of a BS move than grabbing the fence.

Thing about it is that Florian does it with great timing, he's a student of the game. Most fighters try to "cheat" the SAME WAY as Florian, they just try to prevent getting tripped or having their back get controlled when they grab the fence. Florian does it in mid-flight, but in essance, they are trying to prevent the same thing from happening. Plenty of people get warned for grabbing the fence.

You are correct for saying that plenty of people get warned for grabbing the fence, kicking the groin, etc. these days. But Florian gets warned more than any UFC fighter for fence grabbing, I'd guarantee that. And you are right, he will get a warning for the fence grabs, and I guess some people would say that's ok since it's just a warning. However, IMO, that's chicken**** way of fighting, especially when you are grabbing the fence in key takedowns and slams that could very well change the momentum of the fight. Kflow didn't grab the fence in that fight, I see Stevenson slamming him and mounting and Stevenson not getting submitted in the first round.

Just because someone doesn't get a point decducted for their first "cheat" move doesn't mean that they aren't a chicken**** fighter. You fight in MMA, you fight fair and square and don't be a pansyass and run away or grab the fence during a fight. When someone does that this day in MMA, I lose all respect for them. Doesn't mean that I don't recognize they are a talented fighter, I just think they are a major jerk and chicken**** fighter for doing crap like that.

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Special K

Special K

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Well, if you're talking about training ethic, there are few that eat, drink and sleep fighting as much as the Flomeister.
And actually I know several fighters and wrestlers who train, eat, and sleep as well as KFlo. His dedication to training has no bearing on my view of him as a fighter as I know lots of guys who are as dedicated as him...but don't fence grab during takedowns. Edited by Special K
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Sire

Sire

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Well, if you're talking about training ethic, there are few that eat, drink and sleep fighting as much as the Flomeister.

It doesn't matter how hard he trains BJ is just an all around better fighter. The only way BJ loses to anyone is if he gets tired. The bigger guys like St. Pierre have a better shot even though BJ should have got the decision in their first fight.

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ACW

ACW

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Um... no ****. He's only going to get better with the way he trains. The guy is a legit, freak of nature athlete.
I should find this fight on Youtube. I remember there were some questioning whether he was legit after WWE; I guess they forgot his NCAA wrestling titles. Dude's a BEAST.
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Special K

Special K

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I should find this fight on Youtube. I remember there were some questioning whether he was legit after WWE; I guess they forgot his NCAA wrestling titles. Dude's a BEAST.

Anyone who questioned his qualifications did not watch matches from his NCAA career. The guy was a finalist 2 years in a row as heavyweight, winning one year. People who used WWE as his gauge of talent were people who did not pay attention to Brock during his collegiate career.

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d0ublestr0ker0ll

d0ublestr0ker0ll

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It doesn't matter how hard he trains BJ is just an all around better fighter. The only way BJ loses to anyone is if he gets tired. The bigger guys like St. Pierre have a better shot even though BJ should have got the decision in their first fight.

Not saying he's better than BJ, just trying to make a point that it's funny Keeastman has "deep respect" for most fighters because of their training ethics, yet she is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum with Kenny Florian. Kenny is such a workhorse that he has improved his standup better than anyone in the past 3 years, and he's a weasle fighter for sticking a few fingers in the fence, like most fighters take advantage of when they're vunerable against it. Chuck Liddell, anyone?

Edited by d0ublestr0ker0ll
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Special K

Special K

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Not saying he's better than BJ, just trying to make a point that it's funny Keeastman has "deep respect" for most fighters because of their training ethics, yet she is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum with Kenny Florian. Kenny is such a workhorse that he has improved his standup better than anyone in the past 3 years, and he's a weasle fighter for sticking a few fingers in the fence, like most fighters take advantage of when they're vunerable against it. Chuck Liddell, anyone?

Dude, it's funny that you don't even recognize the fact that I said Florian is a talented fighter. He trains hard too. I watched him in TUF, I follow his career now. I just don't have respect for a fighter who continually grabs the fence. "Uh Chuck Liddell anyone" doesn't hold any water whatsoever as Liddell isn't know for his gratuitous grabbing of the fence. Good Lord.

But yeah, I hold a lot of respect for most professional fighters and wrestlers. And yes, I maintain my position that Florian is a weasle for CONTINUALLY grabbing the fence on key takedowns and slams. I find it funny that you are too into the dude to even admit that fact.

Edit: And I will admit that Florian has improved his standup...but more than anyone in the past 3 years??? Lololol

Edited by Special K
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d0ublestr0ker0ll

d0ublestr0ker0ll

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Dude, it's funny that you don't even recognize the fact that I said Florian is a talented fighter. He trains hard too. I watched him in TUF, I follow his career now. I just don't have respect for a fighter who continually grabs the fence. "Uh Chuch Liddell anyone" doesn't hold any water whatsoever as Liddell isn't know for his gratuitous grabbing of the fence. Good Lord.

But yeah, I hold a lot of respect for most professional fighters and wrestlers. And yes, I maintain my position that Florian is a weasle for CONTINUALLY grabbing the fence on key takedowns and slams. I find it funny that you are too into the dude to even admit that fact.

Edit: And I will admit that Florian has improved his standup...but more than anyone in the past 3 years??? Lololol

Haterade must me on sale at the High's near the whorehouse, somehow you're ass got enough **** to afford....oh what the hell.

No use in arguing. Chuck Liddell purposely got his arm caught in the ropes against Rampage to prevent getting driven through the Earth and landing on the moon. He always used his hands against the fence all the damn time. He'd curl those fingers as much as he could, trying not to get a warning. People are going to do it, sorry your crush on Joe Stevenson has lost some luster! Do you call him "Daddy"? I bet you do. ;) I bet you're taller and have a deeper voice than him, too.

The fact is, people are going to grab the ****ing fence. No use in losing your tits trying to lash out against someone who has done it a few times. Your Daddy Boy got handled standing up and was owned on the ground. If you don't believe the fight would have turned out differently, like I said, no use losing your nipple-holders.

Florian is a very impressive Muay Thai fighter. There are guys that I train with who have been doing Thai for 15 years and aren't as savvy as Kenny. It's amazing to see his complete transformation from a BJJ specialist to a very effective kickboxer.

Ps. no offence.

Edited by d0ublestr0ker0ll
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Special K

Special K

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Haterade must me on sale at the High's near the whorehouse, somehow you're ass got enough **** to afford....oh what the hell.

No use in arguing. Chuck Liddell purposely got his arm caught in the ropes against Rampage to prevent getting driven through the Earth and landing on the moon. He always used his hands against the fence all the damn time. He'd curl those fingers as much as he could, trying not to get a warning. People are going to do it, sorry your crush on Joe Stevenson has lost some luster! Do you call him "Daddy"? I bet you do. ;) I bet you're taller and have a deeper voice than him, too.

The fact is, people are going to grab the ****ing fence. No use in losing your tits trying to lash out against someone who has done it a few times. Your Daddy Boy got handled standing up and was owned on the ground. If you don't believe the fight would have turned out differently, like I said, no use losing your nipple-holders.

Florian is a very impressive Muay Thai fighter. There are guys that I train with who have been doing Thai for 15 years and aren't as savvy as Kenny. It's amazing to see his complete transformation from a BJJ specialist to a very effective kickboxer.

No, Liddell doesn't use the fence as much as Florian. And no, I don't have a crush on Stevenson...but I do like wrestlers as my fiancee is one and I'm a CHICK.

Florian's fence grab changed the momentum of the game...but if you'd actually taken the time to read my previous posts, you would have magically found that I said after seeing Florian fight, I have no doubt that he'd have eventually won the fight against Stevenson. Regardless, I don't have a crush on Stevenson...only my own wrestler. :)

But, I won't be losing my "nipple-holders" as a lot of you boys who predicted a Couture win have.... Trust me, I've gotten the beligerante text messages, and I just laugh. I can have my opinons against a chicken**** fighter like Florian just as all you guys who "train MMA" can have your assumptions that that Couture was going to win the heavyweight fight against Lesnar. :)

EDIT: I'm going to add a few :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: in response to the term "whorehouse" and "my ass got enough to afford." Laaamomoooo. lolo. Let me guess, you played sports in highschool and college and are now training MMA and think you know everything because you are a dude and you train and you make and ES name that proves you train. :rolleyes:

Edited by Special K
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Chachie

Chachie

Posted
Posted (edited)
No, no, no, you should bet against K-fencegrabber-Florian in the Penn fight!!!

"I finish fights after grabbing fences!"

Hear that, SkinsOrlando? FENCEGRABBER!

(Thx, keeast.)

For the record, I don't hold that against him though. Any fighter who can reach the cage will grab it and take a warning. They might even be willing to lose a point if they are in the grasp of a respected slammer. I also think it changed the course of the fight but Joe should have carried him to the middle of the cage. Kenny's conditioning is outrageous. I think I won a sig bet with Lando by taking Penn over Big Daddy and yes, keeast- I hope I get a PennFlo (ha) bet because BJ's about the only fighter I'd take vs. Florian right now after learning my lesson twice.

Edited by Chachie
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d0ublestr0ker0ll

d0ublestr0ker0ll

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No, Liddell doesn't use the fence as much as Florian. And no, I don't have a crush on Stevenson...but I do like wrestlers as my fiancee is one and I'm a CHICK.

Florian's fence grab changed the momentum of the game...but if you'd actually taken the time to read my previous posts, you would have magically found that I said after seeing Florian fight, I have no doubt that he'd have eventually won the fight against Stevenson. Regardless, I don't have a crush on Stevenson...only my own wrestler. :)

But, I won't be losing my "nipple-holders" as a lot of you boys who predicted a Couture win have.... Trust me, I've gotten the beligerante text messages, and I just laugh. I can have my opinons against a chicken**** fighter like Florian just as all you guys who "train MMA" can have your assumptions that that Couture was going to win the heavyweight fight against Lesnar. :)

So, if you train exclusively for MMA, which I shouldn't consider myself doing this moment (I train thai and jits at seperate gyms), you should assume that a rookie is going to beat a practical legend of the sport? Lesnar is big and strong, but how much does it have to be said that the size of your muscles means nothing? Weight difference played a factor in Randy not being able to take Brock down, but were you expecting Brock to win the punching exchanges? God, maybe I should quit this muay thai thing, marry a wrestler, and root for Joe Stevenson.

Let me do a little quote thing all the political posters are great at...give me a sec....

but if you'd actually taken the time to read my previous posts, you would have magically found that I said after seeing Florian fight, I have no doubt that he'd have eventually won the fight against Stevenson.
If you don't believe the fight would have turned out differently, like I said, no use losing your nipple-holders.

I read your stupid posts (just kidding, I hate mindless argumenting though). Can't be a fan of any non-champion anymore without someone going crazy and telling you you want to butt **** them. I'll butt **** your momma twice! (not you, just a general vent to all the people that act like Sherdog posters). In fact, I'll just apologize now for my last post. No need to get crazy like that, just gonna be a long day and Randy lost...now, I can't even enjoy Florian's win because you're taking a giant dump on him for something he's technically allowed to do once.

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Special K

Special K

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So, if you train exclusively for MMA, which I shouldn't consider myself doing this moment (I train thai and jits at seperate gyms), you should assume that a rookie is going to beat a practical legend of the sport? Lesnar is big and strong, but how much does it have to be said that the size of your muscles means nothing? Weight difference played a factor in Randy not being able to take Brock down, but were you expecting Brock to win the punching exchanges? God, maybe I should quit this muay thai thing, marry a wrestler, and root for Joe Stevenson.
No, you shouldn't assume a rookie is going to beat a vet all the time...actually most of the time. However, Brock isn't a rookie in wrestling, which Randy has used to take down most of his opponents. Maybe you would better appreciate this if you did marry a wrestler who actually knew and trained with Brock in MN wrestling camps. :)

I don't just have that respect for Florian...especially when he grabs the fence as much as he does. I wasn't riding Stevenson's jock (although I admit I am totally biased toward wreslters) as much as I was rooting against KFlo's fencegrabbing butt.

Ok, I won't take a giant dump on K Flo. I actually do think he is a good fighter. I just get disgusted when guys CONTINUALLY grab the fence. That being said, he really is a good fighter and I am looking forward to his matchup with Penn.

Also, for the record, I love Randy Couture. I think he is one of the best UFC fighters ever and one of the best UFC wrestlers to date. I love that guy to death and he will go down as one of my most favorite fighters ever. Really, I think the guy exudes the class and fight technique that I hold in high respect. I just knew he was going to get beat by a better wrestler in this fight.

Edited by Special K
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