dockeryfan Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 C'mon. That is not "immoral" behavior, nor does it have anything to do with "our culture."The guy is just nuts. Let's not whitewash everything with a PC paintbrush. Yes the guy sounds a little crazy. But why is the act not inherently immoral? He's doing something to cause pain of humiliation and anger in another human being. He knows it's wrong or at least that it's not allowed because he runs away, yet he chooses to repeat the act. Maybe his moral responsibility is lessened because he might be a little crazy, but he's not 100% crazy because he knows that what he is doing is wrong. That at least makes him partially morally responsible for the act. Crazy only gets you so far. The guy is immoral as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 rince...seriously. Who deserves a severe beating more than this guy? I mean...seriously. If it had been your new baby? What then? You're right - if i thought anybody ever deserved a whipping, it would be this guy. Unfortunately, i don't believe in whippings, so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinja Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 that's the most disturbing thing i've ever heard of in my life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueTalon Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 The guy is obviously off of his rocker - therefore, i don't think a severe beating is the answer. A straight-jacket and a nice padded room seem like they would more serve the purpose. Fine, you can pay for the room at a facility near you, or better yet have a room in your home converted for the purpose. If I were to catch him or someone like him doing that, I'd risk jail to put a clean single shot in his head or a double tap in his pelvic region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: That was the biggest a-hole post I've ever seen on this board. Dude, you're a complete and total jackass. Boring post?? Why, because you don't have a daughter? As someone who knows several people with little girls, I am totally repulsed by this man. Anyone who isn't, or finds this a "pointless" topic is either a huge a-hole or just completely and totally insensitive to child abuse. I guess you wouldn't care if it had been his **** instead of a water gun. Or if he'd grabbed and molested them instead of just shooting them. You're a sick ****, Liberty. . I think a lot of people missed Liberty's point. He was not saying that the story was boring or that it was not a disgusting act or that he didn't care about it. He made that clear. He was saying that it gets boring reading all of the repetitive posts where people vent their outrage, and claim that they would find a more creative way to kill this loser than the last poster did, blah blah blah, and no one learns anything or thinks about anything new. I didn't think that this is such an outrageous thing for Liberty to say. It certainly was not "the biggest a-hole post I've ever seen on this board." Some people on this board advocate a preemptive nuking of millions of men, women and children in Tehran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartskins Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 He was not saying that the story was boring or that it was not a disgusting act or that he didn't care about it. He made that clear.He was saying that it gets boring reading all of the repetitive posts where people vent their outrage, and claim that they would find a more creative way to kill this loser than the last poster did, blah blah blah, and no one learns anything or thinks about anything new. I didn't think that this is such an outrageous thing for Liberty to say. I've quoted those portions that I agree with P. And to partially supplement and/or restate, these threads, that is, those that only discuss horrific or disgusting crimes all elicit the same responses from people. Wow that was outrageous. I'd kill that guy. What an *******. I can't believe you people aren't that angry. Etc. It's not that those statements aren't valid, they are, it's that they are self-evident to the point that rereading them on such a regular basis is boring. We know how we feel about this particular lot of crimes. There's the potential for interesting discussion tangentially related to these topics, to wit, whether the justice system effectively rehabilitates prisoners, whether sex crimes should be criminalized in the same way as violent crimes (if they can be separated). Those kinds of conversations move the discussion further and can elicit new points. The posting of articles solely for the purpose of eliciting outrage, however justified the emotions may be, is not that interesting to me. And I think that was the essence of what Liberty was trying to convey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Ok iheart, fine, do YOU feel that the system adequately addresses the dangers of sexual predators? Not the guy that was doin' his 16 yr old g/f, but the actual pedophiles that prey on children? Do you think that mere incarceration is an adequate response? Do you think that "rehabilitation" is even possible for serious deviants that pose a threat? If so, is there such a program anywhere that has a credible track record? If not, what are the alternatives? I've seen enough of you on here to genuinely respect your input, what do you think the situation requires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I've quoted those portions that I agree with P. I think a lot of people missed Liberty's point. Liberty's post was clearly insulting... and both of you telling almost everyone who read it that it was simply misunderstood is a mistake. A... because Liberty should be doing that on his own after a post like that and B... because at a MINIMUM... he should learn how to convey his thoughts without coming across like a jerk. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartskins Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Ok iheart, fine, do YOU feel that the system adequately addresses the dangers of sexual predators? Not the guy that was doin' his 16 yr old g/f, but the actual pedophiles that prey on children? Do you think that mere incarceration is an adequate response? Do you think that "rehabilitation" is even possible for serious deviants that pose a threat? If so, is there such a program anywhere that has a credible track record? If not, what are the alternatives? I've seen enough of you on here to genuinely respect your input, what do you think the situation requires? Well, to answer your answers as succinctly as possible, here's my potentially cop-out answer. The larger and more impersonal our society has grown, the easier it is for people who are criminals to get away with stuff like this on a regular basis. When communities were smaller, and anonymity was far more difficult, this guy wouldn't have been able to get to the 11th little girl. It would have been over far earlier. Bearing that in mind, I don't have simple answers for any of these questions. Ostensibly, if the premise behind prison is to create a disicentive for people committing certain acts within the guise of the 8th amendment, then there should be some link between the severity of crime and the severity of punishment. And here comes the difficult part: what constitutes a crime punishable by death? Some here would have you believe that anything more than petty theft should be punished by quick and swift execution. But most would probably agree that a few clear crimes are punishable by death (or at least life in prison), intentional murder, felony murder being the most common examples. But after that it gets foggy very quickly. And with fog comes interesting conversation as well as discussion of the efficacy of the institution and the costs (both montary and societal) related thereto. I don't know whether rehabilitation will be effective. I know that I never would want someone like this around me or my kids even after succesful completion of a program. But I wonder where that leaves us. Does that mean that anyone and everyone who commits a sexual crime must essentially be ex-communicated from American society? Because that's where the belieft that there is no effective rehabilitation will ultimately lead. So I guess I hope, rather than believe, that there is something that can be done about these sexual deviants. But I have no evidence, empirical or otherwise, to say either way. And within the answers, or the discussion to these questions, at least for me, lies more interesting conversation. I didn't mean to condemn anyone for feeling the way they did (and I hope that was clear in saying that the reactions were justified). I meant only to try to pursuade us to move to the next conversational step and ask some more complicated, if difficult to answer, questions. Liberty's post was clearly insulting... and both of you telling almost everyone who read it that it was simply misunderstood is a mistake.A... because Liberty should be doing that on his own after a post like that and B... because at a MINIMUM... he should learn how to convey his thoughts without coming across like a jerk. .... I'd never excuse Liberty's tone here or elsewhere. But I generally agree with his message. Especially as rehashed in Predicto's post. I chimed in because I generally agreed and thought a less condescending version of Liberty's post was a good message for all of us: i.e., rather than just condemn someone for what they've done, why not talk about some of the deeper and more interesting issues. Maybe I'm the only one who'd be interested in those things, but I doubt it. I think we all learn far more from a topic where there is substantive discussion as oppossed to a series of devolving calls for someone's head. Like I said, we all agree that this is wrong and we don't agree about the proper punishment. Given that those things are pretty clearly established, why not move the conversation to the next step? That's all I was really asking. And because I know you'll see this, congratulations to you on the recent arrival z. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelms Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Liberty's post was clearly insulting... and both of you telling almost everyone who read it that it was simply misunderstood is a mistake.A... because Liberty should be doing that on his own after a post like that and B... because at a MINIMUM... he should learn how to convey his thoughts without coming across like a jerk. .... I think Liberty could stand to use a serious beat down. Seriously. I've been on both the giving and receiving ends of one and it's a great attitude adjuster. I received an attitude adjustment back in college for running my mouth at a local pool hall. Taught me never to use the words ***** and Harley in the same sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 The posting of articles solely for the purpose of eliciting outrage, however justified the emotions may be, is not that interesting to me. that wasn't my objective. i thought it was nasty and i expected i would get replies that agreed with me. i didn't expect multiple pages of creative death threats or outrage from those opposed to such punishment. however this is pretty much the point of tailgate; we aren't here to solve world problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartskins Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 that wasn't my objective. i thought it was nasty and i expected i would get replies that agreed with me. i didn't expect multiple pages of creative death threats or outrage from those opposed to such punishment. however this is pretty much the point of tailgate; we aren't here to solve world problems. And LW, I wasn't trying to call you to task and I'm sorry if it came across that way. We've all posted these kinds of articles. Flyingtiger made a job out of it for awhile. These stories are clearly interesting given how many people respond to them. The point of my post is more than I'd be interested in hearing peoples thoughts about some of the other issues related to these articles, other than whether they think this guy is a total wack-job sicko, which he clearly is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 The point of my post is more than I'd be interested in hearing peoples thoughts about some of the other issues related to these articles, other than whether they think this guy is a total wack-job sicko, which he clearly is. i agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 The point of my post is more than I'd be interested in hearing peoples thoughts about some of the other issues related to these articles, other than whether they think this guy is a total wack-job sicko, which he clearly is. Like - why doesn't Kmart more closely moniter their toy section??? This guy should have been caught on video and his face should be plastered on every telephone pole in a 100 mile radius until he is brought to justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webnarc Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I think Liberty could stand to use a serious beat down. Seriously. I've been on both the giving and receiving ends of one and it's a great attitude adjuster. I received an attitude adjustment back in college for running my mouth at a local pool hall. Taught me never to use the words ***** and Harley in the same sentence. You can use them together again, honestly . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Well, to answer your answers as succinctly as possible, here's my potentially cop-out answer. The larger and more impersonal our society has grown, the easier it is for people who are criminals to get away with stuff like this on a regular basis. When communities were smaller, and anonymity was far more difficult, this guy wouldn't have been able to get to the 11th little girl. It would have been over far earlier...........And within the answers, or the discussion to these questions, at least for me, lies more interesting conversation. Thank you, I agree that there are more worthwhile aspects that could be discussed than just who wins the "Kill "Em the Worst!" sweepstakes. Overwhelmingly I believe (and I carefully couch this in "I believe" terms) that the "system" is badly out of whack and far too often does little to protect the general populace and does virtually nothing to rehabilitate anyone. Do I want to live in a society where mobs rule? No, a definitive and unqualified no. That is the antithesis of society itself, but when "justice" becomes simply another commodity to be bought and sold, or denied for lack of funds, there is little just about it. The first step needed to change anything is to establish trust in the system itself. Anyone abusing their power under color of authority, cops on the take, crooked judges, even more crooked politicians, dope dealing jailers, etc., should be dealt with extremely harshly, everything they possess seized and whatever type of exile appropriate meted out, and these should be publicized widely. Next, prisons should be a place of incarceration, there should be little in the way of entertainment and no prisoner should be getting sex change surgery or organ transplants. Harsh? Easy enough to avoid it then...... More effort should be made towards actual rehabilitation of criminals, psychological aid, job training and some hope for normalcy when they rejoin society. There still remains a group immune to help, immune to counseling or persuasion, and those that seek to live out their unnatural cravings for small children fall into this category. We waste valuable resources that could be better used elsewhere on those that deserve nothing more than deletion. Skip the torture and brutality, that generally coarsens and impairs the abusers more than the abused, it could be compassionate simply by making it quick, but the prospect of dozens or even hundreds of other children someday having their lives shattered is far worse than executing those that have earned it. If this pigeonholes me in some "Give Up and Pull the Plug" category, so be it, I can live with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webnarc Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Like - why doesn't Kmart more closely moniter their toy section??? This guy should have been caught on video and his face should be plastered on every telephone pole in a 100 mile radius until he is brought to justice. Or what ever happened to the man - this is a story from April 25, 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Or what ever happened to the man - this is a story from April 25, 2000. Huh, i never even looked at the date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyZeb Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Or what ever happened to the man - this is a story from April 25, 2000. Weird, I didn't notice that. I'd search for more info, but the search terms make it an unpleasant task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 Or what ever happened to the man - this is a story from April 25, 2000. wow i didn't notice it either. i just saw it yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadets08 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 That's terrible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelms Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 You can use them together again, honestly . I've had my share. Ain't nothing changing my attitude at this point in my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 And LW, I wasn't trying to call you to task and I'm sorry if it came across that way. We've all posted these kinds of articles. Flyingtiger made a job out of it for awhile. These stories are clearly interesting given how many people respond to them. The point of my post is more than I'd be interested in hearing peoples thoughts about some of the other issues related to these articles, other than whether they think this guy is a total wack-job sicko, which he clearly is. Thank you for explaining my point better than I could (and with a moderator's authority as well!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateCitySkin Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I did this to my gf on our first date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 And because I know you'll see this, congratulations to you on the recent arrival z. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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