rincewind Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Well all in all I am sorry I read this thread. Why? At least the debate has stayed level-headed when it comes to each other. That is - no name calling or personal insults... yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Why? At least the debate has stayed level-headed when it comes to each other. That is - no name calling or personal insults... yet. It isn't a particularly interesting debate. Yes I understand the outrage at this event. Yes it is disgusting. Yes the guy should be punished severly and seperated from society until or if he is cured but unless the girl somehow is killed or maimed or some other way scarred forever I see no reason to torture and kill the guy. Yeah blah blah if it were my daughter it would be different, and I would hardly be in a position to dish out justice fairly. It is just an incredibly boring and pointless topic for me, because I have pretty much every angle covered, and I have no where to left to grow any knowledge PLUS it is a nasty story. Not to mention half way down the first page I read a post thinking this somehow indicts our culture. And then we got this dude with the prison story and god knows what "bone's way" means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 It isn't a particularly interesting debate. Yes I understand the outrage at this event. Yes it is disgusting. Yes the guy should be punished severly and seperated from society until or if he is cured but unless the girl somehow is killed or maimed or some other way scarred forever I see no reason to torture and kill the guy. Yeah blah blah if it were my daughter it would be different, and I would hardly be in a position to dish out justice fairly. It is just an incredibly boring and pointless topic for me, because I have pretty much every angle covered, and I have no where to left to grow any knowledge PLUS it is a nasty story. Not to mention half way down the first page I read a post thinking this somehow indicts our culture. And then we got this dude with the prison story and god knows what "bone's way" means. well, if that isn't the most elitist, know-it-all post ever, i'd like to see one that beats it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 well, if that isn't the most elitist, know-it-all post ever, i'd like to see one that beats it. I would recommend finding one of Art's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Just checking, but, would it be ok for me to hit this guy if I saw him doing this, or, since he did nothing to me and really was only emotionally endangering the child I should not react with any physical position at all? I'm trying to be less a cave man and more the softer, gentle, wimpy man. Help me get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Just checking, but, would it be ok for me to hit this guy if I saw him doing this, or, since he did nothing to me and really was only emotionally endangering the child I should not react with any physical position at all? I'm trying to be less a cave man and more the softer, gentle, wimpy man. Help me get there. well speak of the devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Just checking, but, would it be ok for me to hit this guy if I saw him doing this, . no art, that's what our justice system and courts are for. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Compassion? No. Blood and pain? No.The guy is obviously off of his rocker - therefore, i don't think a severe beating is the answer. A straight-jacket and a nice padded room seem like they would more serve the purpose. :2cents: Why is the answer to deviant behavior always, "he's crazy?" Some muthas like feet or the smell of ass, that doesn't make them insane. This guy preys on children and may escalate to something worse and you're calling him crazy? Just because he's shooting a water gun of his own semen at their face and taking a picture of it? He's making "facial shots" with kids, that's not insanity that's just perversion. Why is the ones who preach "Compassion" are the ones who apparently have not read up on psychopathy, watched the news and seen kids kidnapped, raped and killed, etc? Because something does not comport with your perspective does not make it insane. I WOULD feel for someone who was truly insane, a truly insane person probably would whip out his johnson and say he was making love to Cronos, Man of Fire, not taking facial shots of his semen on kids' faces. I'm not indicting the culture or anything of the sort. I'm just making the point that evil does exist in this world and that sometimes people like this come about without any outside interference. I'm not advocating torturing this guy or even killing him, but there is NOTHING WRONG with the instinct to protect the young from predators. Hell, if a mountain lion was going after my babies (if I had them,) I'd try to rip it limb from limb after pouring acid down its throat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oriolesfan93p Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 dreamingwolf, I was in no way trying to imply that I'm satisfied with our justice system, I believe that our justice system is very flawed and in need of much improvement. I was only trying to point out that it's still better than the result you get when you let angry mobs decide people's fate. Yes and no, because if an angry mob were to decide the fate of any child molester I don't know that you could ever recieve a bad result.... but in the case of other crimes you may indeed be right, but those to murder and those that molest children have, imho, forfeited their "right to life". And no, I am not talking about someone convicted of murder where there was circumstancial evidence at best, I am talking about Texas' stance where if someone commits a particularly heinous crime with at least 2 eye witnesses the go to the head of the line for the death penalty... I like that idea, they put those for whom there is no excuse, and no possible defense at the front of the line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Why is the answer to deviant behavior always, "he's crazy?"Some muthas like feet or the smell of ass, that doesn't make them insane. This guy preys on children and may escalate to something worse and you're calling him crazy? Just because he's shooting a water gun of his own seamen at their face and taking a picture of it? He's making "facial shots" with kids, that's not insanity that's just perversi0n. Sorry - when you live out your fantasy and unwillingly involve other you cross the line from fetish to crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyZeb Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Sorry - when you live out your fantasy and unwillingly involve other you cross the line from fetish to crazy. So every sexual predator is crazy? Whole lot of crazy in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Sorry - when you live out your fantasy and unwillingly involve other you cross the line from fetish to crazy. :laugh: :doh: Are you KIDDING me? Do you know the definition of crazy (aka insane?) What you are describing is essentially what every serial rapist and killer does, what every megalomaniac does. They are NOT crazy. You've just given an excuse to every psychopath out there, be they con men, politicians or mass murderers. This isn't even my opinion, just listen to psychologists, psychiatrists and even neurologists that talk about the issue of psychopathy vs. insanity. There is a wide gulf between 'disorders' that are merely descriptive terms for dysfunctional behavior or mental perspectives or habits and insanity. Psychopaths are NOT insane BECAUSE they are in control of their actions and they know what they are doing. This guy is not insane, he's just a perv acting out his fantasies. Your cred is shot on this, rince. You don't sound like you know what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyZeb Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Liberty, why do I still see your name at the top? Aren't you bored with this thread? Or were you just looking for a reason to talk down to us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Liberty, why do I still see your name at the top? Aren't you bored with this thread? Or were you just looking for a reason to talk down to us? I want to see where the insanity thing heads. So far I think Ghost is right, but if taken in the most basic sense how can we judge sanity other than what is the norm? Also, Art did add an interesting post if he mischaracterized the situation a bit to suit his argument better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Sorry - when you live out your fantasy and unwillingly involve other you cross the line from fetish to crazy. :rubeyes: unwillingly? :yikes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 I want to see where the insanity thing heads. So far I think Ghost is right, but if taken in the most basic sense how can we judge sanity other than what is the norm? Because there are scientists and others in related fields that have studied the matter and come to a consensus on the matter, EVEN if there are varying opinions on particular cases. There's a great definition of insanity out there but I'd have to find it. What rince and others describe just isn't insanity by any clinical definition. the whole unwilling part is also kind of silly. IN essence, while there is a great moral divide between forcing someone to act out a fantasy and them participating in it, objectively (for that person who is either self-absorbed or merely overly obsessed) there is no difference. If I can act out a rape fantasy or go commit an actual rape, that is not a 'dividing line' between sanity and insanity. What rince is doing is essentially defining choice/free will and morality out of the human experience. If someone does something "wrong" it's insane. If someone doesn't then they're sane. that's absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 So every sexual predator is crazy? Whole lot of crazy in this world. :laugh: :doh: Are you KIDDING me? Do you know the definition of crazy (aka insane?) What you are describing is essentially what every serial rapist and killer does, what every megalomaniac does. They are NOT crazy. You've just given an excuse to every psychopath out there, be they con men, politicians or mass murderers. This isn't even my opinion, just listen to psychs that talk about the issue of psychopathy. There is a wide gulf between 'disorders' that are merely descriptive terms for dysfunctional behavior or mental perspectives or habits and insanity. Psychopaths are NOT insane. This guy is not insane, he's just a perv acting out his fantasies. Your cred is shot on this, rince. You don't sound like you know what you're talking about. So let me ask you guys - you think this guy was/is 100% perfectly normal? Not only that but do you really believe he is full control of his mental capabilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 What rince and others describe just isn't insanity by any clinical definition. I agree. But to say the guy isn't off his rocker is just as wrong. You sound like you're justifing what he did as just a perversi0n. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyZeb Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 I want to see where the insanity thing heads. So far I think Ghost is right, but if taken in the most basic sense how can we judge sanity other than what is the norm? That's why I could care less where the insanity line is. There'd be no insanity defense in CrazyZeb's Court, it's all based on your actions, I don't care where your mind is/was... but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 That's why I could care less where the insanity line is. There'd be no insanity defense in CrazyZeb's Court, it's all based on your actions, I don't care where your mind is/was... but that's just me. I agree with that 100% we must defend ourselves, even if the guy is clinically or otherwise insane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 I agree. But to say the guy isn't off his rocker is just as wrong. You sound like you're justifing what he did as just a perversi0n. You are using a colloquial expression and misapplying it. I may say "terrorist nutjobs" but I don't literally think these people are insane. The clinical definition is important because it divides the line between those we hold RESPONSIBLE for their actions and those who cannot reasonably be held accountable because their faculties and perceptions are so far out of wack with reality and reason that they simply can't be expected to abide by those rules. How do I sound like I'm justifying what he did? I'm saying it's a perversion and that he is RESPONSIBLE because he's not insane. You're saying he's nuts and that he's not responsible therefore we should be compassionate. (and for the moment put aside specific disagreements on individual perpetrators/patients and whether or not they are actually insane or just unbalanced.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASMTrainer Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 These people need their own island. Some nice savage place with no supplies where the bones of those sent previously can alert them of their fate. LOL, next time, don't sugarcoat it, let us know how you really feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 So let me ask you guys - you think this guy was/is 100% perfectly normal? Not only that but do you really believe he is full control of his mental capabilities? Believe it or not, Rince, just because you or I may find someone's behavior incomprehensible it doesn't mean it's insane. This guy is clearly NOT crazy. He knows what he's doing. He's immediately running, knowing what he's doing is wrong, and he doesn't want to get caught so he can keep doing it. He's in obvious and complete control of his actions, as disgusting as they are. And, though you can't conceive of doing it, he can, knowing how wrong it is. That makes him perfectly sane. Insane, though, would be your response that he is somehow not in control of his actions and he's under some foreign control forcing him to do these things. He understands the risks and he tries to avoid getting caught. That's the very definition of sane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 That's why I could care less where the insanity line is. There'd be no insanity defense in CrazyZeb's Court, it's all based on your actions, I don't care where your mind is/was... but that's just me. So, you're saying a man who k1lls someone while they are rap1ng his wife is just as accountable as a cold-blood murdr??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Art has it right. Dahmer, while very disturbed, was not judged insane because he took actions to hide his crimes because he knew (whether he felt compelled to act in accordance with it or not) that his actions would be judged evil and destructive by others. He also showed great premeditation in luring and murdering his victims. That's why he was sent to prison. And Dahmer could reasonably be called one of the more mentally unbalanced serial killers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.