Ariz. Posse to Arrest Illegal Immigrants

[Mass_SkinsFan]

first of all no one likes your views, I don't even think you do.

Yet you all read and respond to my comments. Hmmm. Seems kind of strange to me.

As for me not liking my own views.... Thanks. I needed a really good belly laugh.

Secondly, I am asking you what is your opinion on the constitutions and how it only pertains to citizens. I am asking you to ELABORATE your point.

Sorry. I missed your edit to the post asking for a clarification. It has now been given.

I am not trying to change your mind, imo your mind isn't worth changing.

Then why do you even bother reading and/or responding to my comments in the first place?

[Darth Tater]

It's pretty obvious what to do, eliminate the welfare state. Stop whinning about a symptom instead of protesting the disease. If you love the disease, stop whinning about those who help maintain the host.

[Mooka]

I will not dispute that. I have no compassion and absolutely no respect for human life. Humanity has reduced itself to little more than a virus and I don't see that there's much chance for us to change that either.

We really need an Agent Smith avatar for Mass.

[Thiebear]

I desperately want to un-ignore button Mass_SkinsFan to see what he's saying again..

Its like a car wreck: I have to get out of this thread ....

[Destino]

They are coming into this country demanding changes from a government that owes them nothing.. What would you call it? Bad manners?

I'd call it immigration. Illegal to be sure, but it's called immigration. Did you want to change the term to better fit your political stance? Should we call them terrorist work force or maybe land pirates? Pirates are totally in these days and that could really help your cause.

[DjTj]

It's so simple that I would think an "enlightened" mind like yourself could see it....

The passages discussed are part of the "UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION". Not the United Nations charter or some other treaty/accord that we shouldn't even be involved in to begin with.

Amendment XIV

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.amendmentxiv.html

Privileges and immunities for citizens, due process for any person, and equal protection for any person within US jurisidiction.

The United States Constitution protects more than just citizens.

[MisterPinstripe]

I'd call it immigration. Illegal to be sure, but it's called immigration. Did you want to change the term to better fit your political stance? Should we call them terrorist work force or maybe land pirates? Pirates are totally in these days and that could really help your cause.

But the point is its illegal. Why is it more ok to be an illegal immigrant then to do something else illegal. It is still illegal, is it not? From the way a lot of people talk you would think there is nothing wrong with it.

[BURGUNDYBLEEDER]

I'd call it immigration. Illegal to be sure, but it's called immigration. Did you want to change the term to better fit your political stance? Should we call them terrorist work force or maybe land pirates? Pirates are totally in these days and that could really help your cause.

I find it interesting that you didn't address the fact that he wrote that it they are demanding changes from a Govt that owes them nothing.

[DjTj]

But the point is its illegal. Why is it more ok to be an illegal immigrant then to do something else illegal. It is still illegal, is it not? From the way a lot of people talk you would think there is nothing wrong with it.

Is it more okay to speed than it is to drive drunk? Is it more okay to jaywalk than it is to commit murder?

Clearly, not all illegal acts are created equal.

[Prosperity]

It's so simple that I would think an "enlightened" mind like yourself could see it....

The passages discussed are part of the "UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION". Not the United Nations charter or some other treaty/accord that we shouldn't even be involved in to begin with.

:laugh: so what?

What else would they call it?

I mean why do you think I said "the law of the land" the land is the United States. The constitution therefore applies to government of the united states, and not Mexico for example.

here take a look:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

this applies to the government, and in fact is a limit on government. No where does it say citizen. And in legal documents if they meant citizens they sure as hell would have written down "citizens." It wasn't some half assed document written by a bunch of morons. It was written by lawyers they would have distinctly wrote citizens if they meant it that way.

[ashburnskinsfan]

I desperately want to un-ignore button Mass_SkinsFan to see what he's saying again..

Its like a car wreck: I have to get out of this thread ....

Ah ... but the View Post option allows you to do this without un-ignore. I admit to doing this occasionally for Oakton/Bush and Nelms, and then immediately regret it when I see what they wrote. :laugh:

[MisterPinstripe]

Is it more okay to speed than it is to drive drunk? Is it more okay to jaywalk than it is to commit murder?

Clearly, not all illegal acts are created equal.

But its still illegal. Even if its "not as illegal" as other crimes, it is still a crime and should be enforced. :2cents:

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Privileges and immunities for citizens, due process for any person, and equal protection for any person within US jurisidiction.

I read that passage differently than you do, obviously.

The United States Constitution protects more than just citizens.

Again, we'll have to disagree on that and when we re-write the document after the next revolution, we'll make sure it's a WHOLE LOT clearer.

[gbear]

djtj,

That seem pretty clear to me, but I started on that side in the begining. Any different reads? I'm just curious how those who think the consitution applies to non citizens read this. It certainly seems to think it applies. Any oppinions other than it needs to be rewritten

[Darth Tater]

People wonder why people get upset over this - this thread has the idea of jut shooting them and it seems to spark no outrage at all. Amazing...

What upsets me is that many people who consider themselves conservative or right-wing have showed themselves to be worshipers of the state, the crime of which they accuse the left or modern North American Liberals.

Over the last 15 years, I've had to stop describing myself as a conservative because others who describe themselves as conservatives, especially those who gain political power, are more socialist than the most radical leftist.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

I mean why do you think I said "the law of the land" the land is the United States. The constitution therefore applies to government of the united states, and not Mexico for example.

Yes. It applies to the citizens and government of the United States. Not citizens or governments of other countries. Therefore, until these scumballs become AMERICAN CITIZENS, they're not even entitled to due process so far as I'm concerned.

[Destino]

I find it interesting that you didn't address the fact that he wrote that it they are demanding changes from a Govt that owes them nothing.

Why is that? This nation is a republic and they can't vote. They haven't made any threats or become violent should the government not agree with their opinions. I understand the need of people to warp reality so that they can feel better about themselves though - thus my helpful suggestions.

Land pirates is a great idea... and I'm not even charging anything for it. You should thank me.

[BURGUNDYBLEEDER]

I think that everyone is not focusing on the correct points as to why this so-called "invasion" or influx of illegal immigrants is a threat if all they are doing is working.

The problem in my eyes is that:

1) they are not assimilating (speaking English)

2) they are extremely poor and this is compounded infinitely when #1 is considered

3) despite what has been said in the past, they do artifically depress wages for unskilled AMERICANS. The argument that we need their labor and that they are doing the work that is "below" American citizens is rife with fallacies.

Does this mean we should shoot them on-site? No. But what happens when a large number of people does not assimilate and then begin demanding rights is that society becomes fractionalized. Meaning less united because they speak their own language, stay to themselves, etc. I am against anyone being an American citizens (or defacto enjoying the same rights as one) who at the same time does not first and foremost consider themselves an American. This [amnesty] is a slippery slope to go down.

[Prosperity]

Then why do you even bother reading and/or responding to my comments in the first place?

The same reason people buy tickets to a freak show.

[gbear]

under what authority should these people be shot? Can anyone just do it?

"nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. "

Wouldn't shooting them be denying them equal protection un the law?

[Darth Tater]

Do you disagree with this point that choosing to murder foreign born poor people at the border rather then allow them to work is out of line with American ideology?

To be an American is to have freedom of association. People who have a problem with immigration OF ANY SORT, have a problem with this basic principle.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

The same reason people buy tickets to a freak show.

Ok. That's reasonable. Just remember this.... when you buy the ticket for the freak show and willingly enter the tent you don't get to complain to the circus owner if the show makes you throw up.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

under what authority should these people be shot? Can anyone just do it?

"nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. "

Wouldn't shooting them be denying them equal protection un the law?

Non-uniformed foreign agents in the United States are considered to be spies, especially if they're here for the purpose of espionage or sabotage. The LEGAL international punishment for espionage is execution.

[Prosperity]

Ok. That's reasonable. Just remember this.... when you buy the ticket for the freak show and willingly enter the tent you don't get to complain to the circus owner if the show makes you throw up.

Fair enough :laugh:

[Prosperity]

The LEGAL international punishment for espionage is execution.

after due process