Guest sith lord Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 You're reading comprehension skills are piss poor. My reading comprehension skills may be poor, but that analogy you made was even poorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I still cant understand why Bonds (or anyone) doing steroids is considered a "cheater". They were within the rules.Yet, a guy like Gaylord Perry happily admits he cheated his way to 300 wins and the HOF and is celebrated. I hate Bonds, but I dont give a rats ass if he did steroids. Isn't it implied to be against the rules if it's illegal in the U.S.? I get that they exploited a loophole, but they still cheated. As for the double-standard, I agree with you that it's frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Dont confuse "not against the rules" with "acceptable". Im just pointing out he wasnt cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Dont confuse "not against the rules" with "acceptable".Im just pointing out he wasnt cheating. I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Dont confuse "not against the rules" with "acceptable".Im just pointing out he wasnt cheating. Most baseball players of his era WERE cheating. * included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Isn't it implied to be against the rules if it's illegal in the U.S.? I get that they exploited a loophole, but they still cheated. As for the double-standard, I agree with you that it's frustrating. LT was arrested repeatedly for breaking the law, but he was voted into the Football Hall of Fame ... breaking the law and breaking the rules of a game are two different things. Sports is all about exploiting loopholes. Zone defense, throwing the ball away under pressure, fouling to stop the clock ... these are all ways to exploit the rules to help you win the game. It's hard to say what's a loophole and what's a legitimate strategy. The ONLY question we should ask is whether or not something is against the rules that were written. If they are, the player should be punished accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney B Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Well, according to the book he started taking straoids in 1999, when he was already 34. He was coming off a season where he had 37 homers, 120 runs, 122 RBIs, and 28 stolen bases. I think it unlikely he was about to retire. OK fair enough, if he really started in 1999. But then, how many, 36 year-olds can still swing a bat in the majors? Or, more tellingly, what percentage of 36 year-olds could still hit the ball during, say, the 1950's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 LT was arrested repeatedly for breaking the law, but he was voted into the Football Hall of Fame ... breaking the law and breaking the rules of a game are two different things.Sports is all about exploiting loopholes. Zone defense, throwing the ball away under pressure, fouling to stop the clock ... these are all ways to exploit the rules to help you win the game. It's hard to say what's a loophole and what's a legitimate strategy. The ONLY question we should ask is whether or not something is against the rules that were written. If they are, the player should be punished accordingly. That's all fine and good, but you can say that his output was directly affected by him breaking the law. Either way, I feel Bonds is a no-question Hall of Famer even if you cut his career off at 1999 (the year he started doping). I just think he's an ass. I also think that he's a cheater (even though you and I are not seeing eye to eye on the semantics of that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 OK fair enough, if he really started in 1999. But then, how many, 36 year-olds can still swing a bat in the majors? Or, more tellingly, what percentage of 36 year-olds could still hit the ball during, say, the 1950's? Hank Aaron did a fine job of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sith lord Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Hank Aaron did a fine job of it. Eddie Murray and Dave Winfield also did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney B Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Eddie Murray and Dave Winfield also did. And Ted Williams. That makes 4, so far. A high percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Did Ty Cobb play into his 40s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 How many players in the 1950's conditioned in the offseason? You want to know why players are playing longer (at least it appears that way) - they keep themselves in shape year round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sith lord Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 And Ted Williams. That makes 4, so far. A high percentage. What we're saying is that the good hitters can hit well into their 30's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playoffsplz Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I gotta disagree with the original poster. I think Bonds catches more flak because he is on the verge of breaking the all-time HR record and people don't want to see somebody who has been linked to steroids break it. McGwire's situation was different. It bothers me when somebody say this is racially motivated for two reasons... 1. Sammy Sosa was also involved in that race right up until the end. 2. Hank Aaron I love baseball and I respect the hell out of Hank Aaron and his career achievements. He is pretty much a baseball god and I dont want to see a guy possibly break his record that may be cheating. I think most fans feel the same way. So how is this racially motivated? Maybe im not viewing it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Report: Bonds to sue over steroid allegations in book http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2381381 Barry Bonds' lawyer said he plans to sue the authors and publisher of a book alleging the outfielder used an array of performance-enhancing drugs, including steroids... more after link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdowwe Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 To me the whole issue surronding Barry is a farse. I truly beleive that it's racially motivated. When Mark McGwire was hitting moon shots, it was good for the game. When Barry hit ball into SF harbor he was a thorn in the side of baseball. I don't understand it. And now at the ripe old age of 42 Barry is hitting .700 batting average, and has a HR. I hope he hits 50 HR this year and tell baseball to kiss his butt. My question is what will they say when A-Rod smashes through both Babe's, Aaron's, and Bond's hr record. I bet they will say he was too nice to the media..... Wow, trying to blame his use of roids to cheat on the race card. Wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaSkin Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Report: Bonds to sue over steroid allegations in bookhttp://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2381381 Barry Bonds' lawyer said he plans to sue the authors and publisher of a book alleging the outfielder used an array of performance-enhancing drugs, including steroids... more after link He does plan to sue, but the lawsuit does not allege that anything in the book is false. Bonds is suing "for the use of illegally obtained" grand jury transcripts the authors used in writing the book. In other words, he is not suing for libel because if he were he'd have to show that he didn't take 'roids. Since he can't do that he is attempting to stop the circulation of the book in another way. One thing I think we can all agree on here though: Barry Bonds is quite simply the greatest cheater in the history of sport. Noone, and I mean noone, has been able to cheat better than Barry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsone Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I dont think it racially motivated. I really dislike baseball, just don't like it, but I respect that hitting a round ball with a round bat is the hardest thing in sports to do. Even if he does take steroids his hand eye coordination has to be off the charts to make that kind of contact with the ball repeatedly. I think his hand eye has more to do with it than his overally bulk. :2cents: steroids makes world of a difference. if you arent bulked up using steroids but have good hand eye coordination, then u are basically another ichiro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 One thing I think we can all agree on here though:Barry Bonds is quite simply the greatest cheater in the history of sport. Noone, and I mean noone, has been able to cheat better than Barry. I'll go with the chick that jumped in a cab during the New York Marathon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaSkin Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I'll go with the chick that jumped in a cab during the New York Marathon. ooooh... good one. Tough call, but I'm still going to give Barry the edge 'cuz he gets $17 million a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsone Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Bond's is one of the greatest ball players of all time, with or with out steriods. He's a scapegoat for Bud Selig and the rest of the mlb. I hope he is able to stay healthy, he'll go yard 50 times. without steriods, bonds was basically a 30 + HR hitter during his prime. he never was a great outfielder as well so one of the greatest? i dont think so. now lets assum he took steroids towards the latter part of his career which i believe he did without any doubt, his HR numbers sky rocketed to 60s and 70. all this done during latter part of his career when he is suppose to be over the hill. do the math. it does not add up. even michael Jordan, one of the greatest athletes ever didnt have his total stats sky rocket with the wizards when he was towards end of his career. its jsut natural. thats how human beings body works unless of course, u are taking some sort of substance to enhance it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsone Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I dunno about the it being racial or not.. But steroids have never helped any hitter make contact with the ball.. a .700 average is awesome. these are baseball players. they all make contact. thats what they do for a living. the difference is, steroids allows hitters to hit the ball farther. no one ever said steroids helps hitters make contact with the ball. how one can link steroids to help making contact with the ball is mind boggling. that is a bad point u made there dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 ooooh... good one. Tough call, but I'm still going to give Barry the edge 'cuz he gets $17 million a year. In that case i go with Sosa - not only did he juice up, but he corked his bat two - he's a two time loser. I'll give you Bonds at #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaSkin Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 without steriods, bonds was basically a 30 + HR hitter during his prime. he never was a great outfielder as well so one of the greatest? i dont think so. now lets assum he took steroids towards the latter part of his career which i believe he did without any doubt, his HR numbers sky rocketed to 60s and 70. all this done during latter part of his career when he is suppose to be over the hill. do the math. it does not add up. even michael Jordan, one of the greatest athletes ever didnt have his total stats sky rocket with the wizards when he was towards end of his career. its jsut natural. thats how human beings body works unless of course, u are taking some sort of substance to enhance it. Look, I am not a Bonds fan, but if you buy the book's contention that he didn't take steroids untill after the '98 season, he still had put together a Hall of Fame type career. He was already the only player in history to have 400 homers (including a league-leading 46 in 1993) and 400 steals. He'd won 3 MVPs ('90,'92,93), seven gold gloves, and seven silver slugger awards. He led the league in OPS 5 times prior to 1999 and was second or third 4 other times. He was top ten in stolen bases 8 times, top ten in extra base hits 11 times (including 1st twice), and top ten in slugging 10 times (including leading the league three times). There is no question that he was a fantastic ball player before he began juicing. If he'd retired then he'd have been in the hall. Personally I think he started juicing more to recover from the inevitable injuries that start to take place at that age (early-mid 30's). And his body did change substantially. The real question now is does he still make the hall? His numbers were good enough before he was on the juice. But should his steroid use wipe out what came before? I think it's a tough question. The worst thing about it, to me, is that he was already an AMAZING player. He didn't need to cheat. He already had one of the richest contracts in baseball. I can understand the borderline player taking 'roids to stay in the game. I don't approve, but I can understand it. But Bonds was/is a hall-of-famer. And if the biggest stars are going to juice, then how can a borderline player not do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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