ccsl2 Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 That is because Ruth did the 714 in significantly less at bats in an era where there were less games per season, plus Ruth hit something like .340 and set almost every other offense record to that point And also he didn't play against any minorities because they were not allowed to play in the MLB...a lot of factors contributed to him hitting 714...but there are no asterisks next to babe ruth's records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 And also he didn't play against any minorities because they were not allowed to play in the MLB...a lot of factors contributed to him hitting 714...but there are no asterisks next to babe ruth's records. Wow, so you're laying the color barrier on Ruth now too? None of the other white players hit 714 back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsl2 Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 I'll touch it.Absolutely. The league is definitely responsible for letting the roid abuse go on for as long as it did. Bud Selig, for this reason and several others, is the worst commish in sports, maybe ever. I dont know WHY there isnt a national outcry for his dismissal. Very simple answer to that question...it is easy to go after Barry Bonds because the media doen't like him and some fans don't like him. Also, sports writers are getting lax in their reporting and don't wanrt to do the dirty work in getting the REAL story...they would rather just focus on someone (Bonds) who is an easy target. Everyone WANTED to believe Sosa and McGuire were clean because they were the feel good story that year, when baseball sorely needed a feel good story. I remember McGuire talking about Andro and thinking "yeah, Mark is just using supplements." Now that i look back with all the evidence that has come to light in the past 3 years, **** him, he's guilty too. Maris is still #1 in my book. Wanting to believe that they were not using steroids is a piss poor excuse for not investigating it, espeically if the suspicions were there...once again laziness...and the fact that baseball needed to put fans back in the seats and MONEY The investigation is in progress. Who's to say that people complicit in the cheating arent going to get axed? I hope they do, IF they helped players cheat, they should lose their jobs. Looking the other way isnt aiding, for the reasons above. Bud Selig and the owners are not gonna lose their jobs...Even though what they did, by looking the other way in terms of steroids, is more reprehensible that what Barry Bonds, McGuire, etc. did in taking steroids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsl2 Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Wow, so you're laying the color barrier on Ruth now too? None of the other white players hit 714 back then. Not at all...just stating a fact...don't put words in my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Wow, so you're laying the color barrier on Ruth now too? None of the other white players hit 714 back then. How is anyone throwing around the race card to defend Barry Bonds? HE'S the one that made this a color issue when #1 he said he is only interested in breaking Ruth's record, not Aarons, and #2 he said the only reason he REALLY started juicing A LOT was because he wanted to break McGuire's single season record, and the only reason McGuire beat Sosa that year was because McGuire was white, and MLB would never let a Dominican or a black man get that recored. Well, i guess he and BALCO showed MLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 And also he didn't play against any minorities because they were not allowed to play in the MLB...a lot of factors contributed to him hitting 714...but there are no asterisks next to babe ruth's records. So now white players can't throw a baseball, hit one or field... ? Do everyone a favor a stop while you have only dug yourself halfway to China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Don't throw facts at ccsl2. Babe Ruth was white and Hank Aaron is black, that's all he needs to know. That is probably the biggest thing that I hate about Bonds! That he is turning this into a race issue. It is classic smoke screen tactics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Not at all...just stating a fact...don't put words in my mouth. A rather unfair and loaded fact. Ruth played in the only era he could - it wasn't his fault he only played against whites. The simple fact is, Ruth was a better ballplayer than Bonds, period. He still holds the AL record for shutouts in a season, and he hit homeruns when homeruns were VERY rare, hence the fact that is known as the deadball era. If you are going to say he played against diluted competiton then why not bring up the fact that Bonds is playing in the live ball area, in small ballparks, against pitchers that would be in AA 30 years ago? How is anyone throwing around the race card to defend Barry Bonds? HE'S the one that made this a color issue when #1 he said he is only interested in breaking Ruth's record, not Aarons, and #2 he said the only reason he REALLY started juicing A LOT was because he wanted to break McGuire's single season record, and the only reason McGuire beat Sosa that year was because McGuire was white, and MLB would never let a Dominican or a black man get that recored. Well, i guess he and BALCO showed MLB. Don't really know why you directed this at me. The race issue was brought up before my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsl2 Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 So now white players can't throw a baseball, hit one or field... ?Do everyone a favor a stop while you have only dug yourself halfway to China. Why are you putting words in my mouth??? Please show me in my quote where I said that white players can't throw, hit, or field a baseball? Look up and down the record books...majority of the people in them are white..so please stop making an ass of yourself and assuming what I am saying and just take the words at face value...I was merely stating a FACT that may or may not have made Ruth's numbers better OR worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Why are you putting words in my mouth??? Please show me in my quote where I said that white players can't throw, hit, or field a baseball? Look up and down the record books...majority of the people in them are white..so please stop making an ass of yourself and assuming what I am saying and just take the words at face value...I was merely stating a FACT that may or may not have made Ruth's numbers better OR worse. Then why does it matter? What's the point in bringing up black players at all? He never played against Japanese players. Had a few Eyetalians in there, though. Is that meaningless. Don't try to come off as if you're intentions are less than racist. I'm not a lawyer and this isn't a court of law, so I don't have to take your comments at mere face value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 I was merely stating a FACT that may or may not have made Ruth's numbers better OR worse. Just like i said the live balls, small stadiums, and minor league level pitching may or may not have made Bonds better. Though we all know they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Bud Selig and the owners are not gonna lose their jobs...Even though what they did, by looking the other way in terms of steroids, is more reprehensible that what Barry Bonds, McGuire, etc. did in taking steroids. Obviously the owners arent going to lose their jobs. They ARE MLB. The owners of the individual teams own MLB as an entity. They cannot be "fired." Bonds isnt going to lose his job either, Giambi, McGuire, nope. Palmeiro is going to be the only one, but he was dumb enough to get caught AND THEN throw Miggy under the bus. They are all retiring as MILLIONAIRES. All's we are talking about here is places in the record books and in the history of the sport, the legitimacy of the record books, and the soul of the game. Are you going to remember who the owner of the Royals is in 20, 30, 100 years? I doubt it. BTW, when i heard Bonds came up short again yesterday, warning track again, I have to admit, I smiled. This is is slowest start in terms of HR's ever. No word on how the weather was in ARIZONA, possibly contributing to Bonds' futility. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Bonds isnt going to lose his job either, Giambi, McGuire, nope. Palmeiro is going to be the only one, but he was dumb enough to get caught AND THEN throw Miggy under the bus. They are all retiring as MILLIONAIRES. All's we are talking about here is places in the record books and in the history of the sport, the legitimacy of the record books, and the soul of the game. Are you going to remember who the owner of the Royals is in 20, 30, 100 years? I doubt it. Actually McGuire's rep was SEVERALLY damaged at the congressional hearings - to the point that he is no longer a sure bet HOF (though, i don't think he deserves the hall anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsl2 Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 A rather unfair and loaded fact. Ruth played in the only era he could - it wasn't his fault he only played against whites. The simple fact is, Ruth was a better ballplayer than Bonds, period. He still holds the AL record for shutouts in a season, and he hit homeruns when homeruns were VERY rare, hence the fact that is known as the deadball era. If you are going to say he played against diluted competiton then why not bring up the fact that Bonds is playing in the live ball area, in small ballparks, against pitchers that would be in AA 30 years ago?The reason I have not brought that up is because we will not put asterisk in the HOF for Barry Bonds because he played in smaller ball parks or sorry AA pitchers...if asterisk are put next to his record, it will be because he "cheated" by using steroids...my point was a that we can put asterisks on damn near everyone's records because of different situations... so if you are gonna put an asterisk next to Bond's records for "cheating", then are we gonna do it for Gaylord Perryf or his cheating??? That is my point, if you start putting asterisk on those who used steroids when it was not even a rule about using them in baseball, then why not do it for those who admittedly cheated? Don't really know why you directed this at me. The race issue was brought up before my post. I didn't post that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsl2 Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Then why does it matter? What's the point in bringing up black players at all? He never played against Japanese players. Had a few Eyetalians in there, though. Is that meaningless. Don't try to come off as if you're intentions are less than racist. I'm not a lawyer and this isn't a court of law, so I don't have to take your comments at mere face value. well fine then...i will just say that YOU ARE WRONG to assuming i am coming off as being a racist...jsut merely pointing out a fact..it is abovious you can't handle that...if you did, you would assume or call me a racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsl2 Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Just like i said the live balls, small stadiums, and minor league level pitching may or may not have made Bonds better. Though we all know they did. exactly...so are we gonna put asterisks or take HRs and RBIs awayfrom his records for that? NO...so why do it for steroids when baseball allowed it to go on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 [/b]I didn't post that. I know, i was saying that to PB. exactly...so are we gonna put asterisks or take HRs and RBIs awayfrom his records for that? NO...so why do it for steroids when baseball allowed it to go on? Fine, if that's your only point - don't; i don't give a ****. But say from now on... I don't like the whole asterik idea anyway, to me it either a record or not. But i would have no problem with erasing records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Who by the way was dominante from the time he came up. He did not go from a control pitcher to a power pitcher, he started out with power and added control. Very difficult to argue steroids helping in increasing his control, since they typically hender muscle movement to some degreeBonds came in to the league as a gap hitter and added power at 37 years old. This indicates something very unusual Ok, thats a ridiculous post. Bonds has always had power. While he wasn't hitting 35+ homers his first 6 years, neither were many other players. But its not like he was hitting less than 10 homers either. He did average nearly 24 homers his first 6 years (and remember this was the still an era where 20 homers+ was only done by power hitters). No one has answered my question though - why is it applauded when players take painkiller injections in order to play? Aren't then getting an unfair advantage? I mean, they shouldn't be able to play as well without the drugs right? Oh, and I originally made the comment about Ruth's record at the time should have had an asterisk since he didn't face the best of his time. It's not his fault directly, but it goes to say that good players were kept out of his league in his era due to the color of their skin. Who knows what impact (good or bad) that would have had on his record. That said, I would concede no asterisk if the same people who are against Ruth's record (at the time) having an asterisk have no problem with that record being shattered by live balls and homer friendly parks. I mean, its not the current players faults is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 And also he didn't play against any minorities because they were not allowed to play in the MLB...a lot of factors contributed to him hitting 714...but there are no asterisks next to babe ruth's records. Well Aaron didn't play with the raised mound so he had an unfair advantage over Ruth right? They lowered the mound because of how dominant Bob Gibson was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Well Aaron didn't play with the raised mound so he had an unfair advantage over Ruth right? They lowered the mound because of how dominant Bob Gibson was I thought they raised the mound because of Gibson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsl2 Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Well Aaron didn't play with the raised mound so he had an unfair advantage over Ruth right? They lowered the mound because of how dominant Bob Gibson was yes he did..so lets run and put an asterisk by his records!! (sarcastic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Ok, thats a ridiculous post. Bonds has always had power. While he wasn't hitting 35+ homers his first 6 years, neither were many other players. But its not like he was hitting less than 10 homers either. He did average nearly 24 homers his first 6 years (and remember this was the still an era where 20 homers+ was only done by power hitters).No one has answered my question though - why is it applauded when players take painkiller injections in order to play? Aren't then getting an unfair advantage? I mean, they shouldn't be able to play as well without the drugs right? Hmm 20 hrs 73 hrs seems close enough that he didn't change from a gap to a power hitter. ARE you freaking nuts?! Look at the pictures!! his never had power like this. As for the pain killers, they are not performance enhancers they are pain killers, allowing a player to compete near the level that he is normally physically able. That is a terrible analogy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 I thought they raised the mound because of Gibson. Uh no lowered it, you get more velocity coming down than straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 well fine then...i will just say that YOU ARE WRONG to assuming i am coming off as being a racist...jsut merely pointing out a fact..it is abovious you can't handle that...if you did, you would assume or call me a racist. You still never answered the question. What's the point of bringing up the race of the players Ruth faced, to begin with? There's no justification at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Don't really know why you directed this at me. The race issue was brought up before my post. Wasnt directed at you Rince, it was directed at the issue in your post. You just had the most recent post bringing up that issue, so i quoted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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