PleaseBlitz Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 No they wouldn't play, but then ask yourself a question...if you are Bud Selig and you hear people in the game saying that your ball players are using steroids...or you see HRs production jump in the span of a year or two, and u see your players getting huge in front of your eyes, and you suspect steroids is involved, why wouldn't you investigate it right then and there? Why would you celebrate accomplishments of those on the juice? I wont argue with that. I agree with you that Cadillac Bud deserves a kick in the face and should be tarred and feathered. As ive stated before, there is plenty of blame to go around. Bud deserves a big chunk and will hopefully go down in history as the man that let the cheating get out of hand. Bonds deserves a big heaping helping too and will hopefully go down in history as the biggest cheat in the history of the game. THAT should be his legacy, not the all time and single season HR records. Those are TOO important and TOO attached to the relavency of the game to be held by a man who so blatently disrespects the game, the history of the game, and the fans of the game. Please cease and decist (sp) with the whole "Blame Bud" thing. WE ALL AGREE WITH YOU. Blame Bud, but also blame the players that actually did the crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 If Bonds and McGuire and Raffy and a few others were the only juicers, this might mean something. But I honestly believe that most of MLB players, hitters and pitchers, were juicing. Under these circumstances, making Bonds the primary scapegoat is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsl2 Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 What i meant was i don't believe that they just didn't care. They cared, but they made themselves believe there was no problem. If it had been blatantly open - as in the hypothetical instance in PB's post - they would have had to come down with the hammer of the Gods. Instead they chose to hide there head in the sand and act like nothing was going on. No one said they didn't care...they just didn't care enough to enact a policy to stop it from going on...because knocking HRs out of the park puts butts in the seats, and translates into dollars...someone in MLB knew and i find it hard to beleive that Bugf Selgi and other owners didn'tknow, when people are coming out now in MLB that say they knew it was going on back then...the p0layers knew as well...and instead of investigating, they turned a blind eye because money was being made and they needed HRs to put fannies in the seats coming off of ther strike of 1994...money will make you do things that are SHADY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Bonds deserves a big heaping helping too and will hopefully go down in history as the biggest cheat in the history of the game. THAT should be his legacy, not the all time and single season HR records. Those are TOO important and TOO attached to the relavency of the game to be held by a man who so blatently disrespects the game, the history of the game, and the fans of the game.. Cmon, Bonds may disrespect the fans and even the history of the game, but he definitely respects the game itself. His preparation and focus is incredible, and on the field he does what is best for his team to win, even when it hurts his individual stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Cmon, Bonds may disrespect the fans and even the history of the game, but he definitely respects the game itself. His preparation and focus is incredible, and on the field he does what is best for his team to win, even when it hurts his individual stats. Cheating disrepects the game. Especially when he has the motives that he is rumored to have. So, disrepecting the fans (much less the history of the game) is A-OK with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 and instead of investigating, they turned a blind eye because money was being made and they needed HRs to put fannies in the seats coming off of ther strike of 1994...money will make you do things that are SHADY. Which was exactly my point - they didn't accept it, they turned a blind eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Cheating disrepects the game. Especially when he has the motives that he is rumored to have.So, disrepecting the fans (much less the history of the game) is A-OK with you? No. It's not. I have never said that Bonds wasn't a complete jerk - he is. I guess you are right that cheating disrespects the game. Gaylord Perry should not be in the Hall of Fame. Hank Aaron should be booted out too, for the amphetamines. Look, I just get wired sometimes when I see people try and rip Bonds for the wrong things, like being lazy or selfish on the field. I have watched him play for the Giants for a long time. No one wants to win more than he does. No one understands all the nuances of the game better. No one works harder. No one is better in the clutch. He is a complete jerk and a steroid abuser, but he is the best player of our time by a huge margin. He is the Ted Williams of our time (but with 8 gold gloves). He is the Ty Cobb of our time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 I wonder how this discussion would look to me if i was a Giants fan. :whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 He is a complete jerk and a steroid abuser, but he is the best player of our time by a huge margin. He is the Ted Williams of our time (but with 8 gold gloves). He is the Ty Cobb of our time. Once again I will point to Roger Clemens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twenty-eight Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Which was exactly my point - they didn't accept it, they turned a blind eye. How is that not the samething? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Once again I will point to Roger Clemens. In what way? I hate Clemens, but I respect him as a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 How is that not the samething? To me accepting means open acknowledgement, turning a blind eye is to pretend it doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 In what way? I hate Clemens, but I respect him as a player. To me Clemens is the more dominant player - he plays in a hitter's generation, and for most of his career in the hitter's league. Yet he won 7 (or is it 6?) Cy Youngs - a record i don't see being met anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twenty-eight Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 To me accepting means open acknowledgement, turning a blind eye is to pretend it doesn't exist. so basically because they were in denial it doesnt count? They accepted and then turned a blind eye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 so basically because they were in denial it doesnt count? They accepted and then turned a blind eye Alright i think were discussing something totally insignificant now. Doesn't count? What doesn't count? and what doesn't it count for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twenty-eight Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 By not counting i mean putting the blame on mlb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 To me Clemens is the more dominant player - he plays in a hitter's generation, and for most of his career in the hitter's league. Yet he won 7 (or is it 6?) Cy Youngs - a record i don't see being met anytime soon. Apples and Oranges. There is room for one of each on my plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Apples and Oranges. There is room for one of each on my plate. Works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Should Clemens #'s have an asterisk because he played in a generation of 5 man rotations and specialists/relievers? Especially when other greats played in 4 man rotations and often threw complete games (win or lose). j/k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Ummm, the suck-ass crybaby that accomplishes nothing? I can see hating Bonds for the roids (because he took em), I can see hating him for being an a-hole (because he is one). But calling him a suck-ass who accomplishes nothing is a joke. Cheater or not, he is by far the best player of our time. on his own, without the juice, he was slightly above average. known more because of who his father and godfather were than for his accomplishments, until the roids gave him the numbers. and how can you call a cheater the best player of our time? if he didn't cheat to get where he is, nobody would be talking about him......rickey henderson's ungodly steals totals for a season and career alone make him a better player of our time. roger clemens is a better player of our time. so to call barry the best, is sheer nerve. to call him the best by far, is flat out rediculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Ironic that you chose a player who, at 42, is performing better than he (and almost anyone ever in MLB) should at that age. BTW, steroid use has been going on in baseball for over 100 years. In fact, it was actually encouraged in the late 1800's and early 1900's. And of course, batters then didn't have to face the best of the best, they only had to face the best of the "white" best. http://www.steroids-info.com/history.htm to put it lightly, you're full of ****....except the white best part, because we all see how the negro league/mlb matchup always ended with the black players kicking ass, i thought it was great. i still say mlb or not, the greatest HR hitter of all time was josh gibson, not ruth....and i'm white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 to put it lightly, you're full of ****....except the white best part, Well then - so much for the nice, civil discourse we were having. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Or because he is hypercompetitive, not a "selfish stat whore." If anything, Bonds is the least "selfish" slugger in baseball, because he takes walks and gets on base to help his team rather than swinging for the fences to maximize his HR stats. He is a steroid abuse, but on the field he is the anti-Sosa. he doesn't walk because he isn't swinging and wants to help his team, he gets INTENTIONALLY WALKED over 90% of the time, there is nobody swinging at those pitches. he doesn't have a choice, and his own teammates hate him, so your point is shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Well then - so much for the nice, civil discourse we were having. :doh: i was just pointing out that steroids didn't even exist 100 years ago, much less being mainstream in baseball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 i was just pointing out that steroids didn't even exist 100 years ago, much less being mainstream in baseball I know - i was referring to the way in which you stated that. Don't really think you had to say he was full of ****. Matter of fact you could've gotten your point across even better if you hadn't insulted him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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