NYP - Jets closing in on Patrick Ramsey Deal

[Tazhog]

There is no way the Skins should trade Ramsey for less than a 2nd rounder. If no one is willing to offer that, then keep him.

Sounds ridiculous, but if you trade Ramsey you need to replace him with a veteran QB. You won't save much on the cap by getting rid of Ramsey and bringing in a veteran, so forget cap considerations.

It doesn't matter what Ramsey is worth to the rest of the league. He's worth a 2nd rounder to the Skins. They should not give him up for nothing -- he is a competent 2nd string QB here. Those don't exactly grow on trees.

I think the Skins should be patient. No reason to take the first offer. After Brees and Culpepper shake out, and after the draft, you might find a more eager trade partner.

BINGO!!! Couldn't have said it better myself... I completely AGREE!!!

Good post!

[Gregpeck99]

Peregrine ... for once I totally agree with you. But don't worry ... if the Skins are crazy enough to give Patrick away for a virtually worthless # 5 pick ... they will probably recover by signing Gus Frerrotte to be the third-string (veteran) back-up.

[MRMADD]

That's the thing...we will be giving him up for nothing...next year. Jason is at the least our #2 this year, Gibbs pretty much said as much in all of the pressers. So you are saying keep him here as the #3 then get no value for him next year? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Remember, he has value this year. He's the #2 QB. If Brunell gets hurt -- and at his age and with his injury history, that's a very real possibility -- Ramsey is the starter because Campbell just isn't ready. So giving him up now for peanuts means that you have to replace him immediately.

If they keep him and he leaves next year in FA, yes, the Skins get nothing in return... except this: Campbell will have another year of development under his belt, and will presumably be the starter. I'd say that's terrific value, and worth a lot more than a 5th rounder to me.

[Isifhan]

Remember, he has value this year. He's the #2 QB. If Brunell gets hurt -- and at his age and with his injury history, that's a very real possibility -- Ramsey is the starter because Campbell just isn't ready.

Sorry bud this is pretty doubtful. He's not the #2 QB this year, he is either #1 (if Gibbs decides to hold an open competition which is unlikely with the way Brunell played and somehow Ramsey outplays him) or #3.

Go back and listen to his presser at the end of the year. He esentially said it was time for Campbell to step up. Now step up to the #1 spot or #2 spot is still to be determined but no matter what he is not the #3 this year. You can't flop your #2 QB back and forth in the middle of the year so a decision has to be made by the season opener as to who the #2 will be.

[No_Pressure]

http://www.nypost.com/sports/jets/62982.htm

JETS CLOSING IN ON RAMSEY DEAL

New York Post

By MARK CANNIZZARO

March 10, 2006 -- The Jets, hell-bent on repairing their crippled quarterback situation, are acting quickly on Patrick Ramsey - so quickly that the former No. 1 draft pick out of Tulane could join Chad Pennington and Co. within days.

Two sources familiar with the goings on between the Jets and Redskins, told The Post last night that the Jets and Jimmy Sexton, the agent for the Washington backup quarterback, have been actively working on the parameters for a trade that would bring Ramsey to New York.

Word is the Jets would give the Redskins a fifth-round draft pick in next month's NFL draft as well as a possible conditional pick in the 2007 draft, depending on how much and how well Ramsey plays.

mark.cannizzaro@nypost.com

I wasnt aware that Ramsey was the #1 Pick. :doh:

[Dirk Diggler]

Sorry bud this is pretty doubtful. He's not the #2 QB this year, he is either #1 (if Gibbs decides to hold an open competition which is unlikely with the way Brunell played and somehow Ramsey outplays him) or #3.

Go back and listen to his presser at the end of the year. He esentially said it was time for Campbell to step up. Now step up to the #1 spot or #2 spot is still to be determined but no matter what he is not the #3 this year. You can't flop your #2 QB back and forth in the middle of the year so a decision has to be made by the season opener as to who the #2 will be.

Yup. He was the #2 LAST YEAR but from everything Gibbs has said, he'd be #3 this year if we can't move him.

And Gibbs has said that he believes CAmpbell IS READY. He was talking like we have 2 #1 QBs. So you'd be replacing a #3 if Ramsey left, not a #1. That's not that difficult. My guess is we'll use a late rounder on someone in next month's draft.

[Dana87]

This better be incorrect. If not this is a horrible Deal! Basically we are giving them a young up and coming QB for a pick that won't even make the F*&%#ing team. As for the so called conditional pick, I bet NY will sit him behind Pennington until he can't reach the qualifiers for the conditional pick. What do they have to lose all they are giving up is a pick that probably wouldn't make their Damn team either. I don't care how unhappy Ramsey is, I say we hold on to him until there is a market for him. Even Pat Kirwin said the Redskins would be crazy to let Ramsey go for less than a 2nd and a conditional pick.

:soapbox: :jetssuck:

[kevinklein]

This would be stupid...we need immediate gratification with this Ramsey trade.

[ntotoro]

This would be stupid...we need immediate gratification with this Ramsey trade.

We'd be getting immidiate gratification. $1.7m in cap relief.

[0mega]

Horrible, just horrible...

I'd rather have a disgruntled but capable backup QB than a BS 5th round pick. Do you know who the Skins have drafted in the 5th round the last few years? Exactly...

Word :logo:

[MRMADD]

Don't be too sure that Campbell is ready. Are you really confident that if Brunell goes down you'd be willing to have Campbell starting and no experienced backup? Seems dumb to me. You've got to have a veteran backup, and their aren't many out there better/cheaper than Ramsey. If the Skins lose Ramsey and pick up a rookie as their #3, I'll be shocked. Gibbs doesn't work like that.

So you'll get no cap relief, because any replacement for Ramsey, which I assume will be an experienced veteran, will be just as expensive but probably not as good. And you won't get anything real in the draft -- I think the FO has a cheerleader make the fifth-round picks. And she just picks the guy with the cutest name.

So you lose Ramsey, lose experience and depth at QB, and gain... nothing.

[Heidenreich]

This better be incorrect. If not this is a horrible Deal! Basically we are giving them a young up and coming QB for a pick that won't even make the F*&%#ing team. As for the so called conditional pick, I bet NY will sit him behind Pennington until he can't reach the qualifiers for the conditional pick. What do they have to lose all they are giving up is a pick that probably wouldn't make their Damn team either. I don't care how unhappy Ramsey is, I say we hold on to him until there is a market for him. Even Pat Kirwin said the Redskins would be crazy to let Ramsey go for less than a 2nd and a conditional pick.

:soapbox: :jetssuck:

I really don't know why I keep coming back to this thread.

Mort said on the radio today that the Vikings would be happy if they got a second rounder for DAUNTE CULPEPPER. Even off of a catastrophic knee injury, Culpepper is worth significantly more than Patrick Ramsey.

Pat's a third stringer at this point. I wouldn't call him an up & comer either. Even he realizes it. He's agreeing to a trade where AT BEST, he can compete for a job with a guy with a crippled shoulder.

Any GM who would give us a 2nd round pick should be fired on the spot

[MRMADD]

I didn't say he's worth a second rounder to other teams. He's worth a second rounder to the Skins. Big difference.

I wouldn't let him go -- he's a very competent backup, which is a necessity, and he's affordable. You'd just have to use his cap space on another QB anyway.

[ntotoro]

I didn't say he's worth a second rounder to other teams. He's worth a second rounder to the Skins. Big difference.

How unfortunate, then, that we can't trade him to ourselves for a 2nd-Round pic. Damn those talent evaluators in the NFL for seeing something that only makes him worth a 5th and a possible future 3rd!!!

[mbraun2]

I am only on page two of this thread (out of 10) and I have to post this at the risk of repetition because its so damn obvious. It dosent matter what we should get for him because he was a first rounder....Its what the market allows. And lets be honest, with Culpepper out now, we just can't command a second. If Gibbs hadn't f'ed up the sitiuation by starting him, pulling him then benching him. We could have easily gotten the Jets 2nd rounder at deadline. However we decided to keep him as insurance for the season (can't argue with that) and deal him at the end of the season.

I love Ramsey, and have been a fan of his ever since he played at the Tad, but he is not worth a 2nd or even a 3rd rounder this year, when Culpepper, Brees, Young, Lienart and Cutler are available. There just isnt demand. So lets stop arguing and change the debate to.

5th and conditional vs. Unhappy backup.

edit-yep bnacpa beat me to it!

simple. huh? ;-)

[0mega]

I am only on page two of this thread (out of 10) and I have to post this at the risk of repetition because its so damn obvious. It dosent matter what we should get for him because he was a first rounder....Its what the market allows. And lets be honest, with Culpepper out now, we just can't command a second. If Gibbs hadn't f'ed up the sitiuation by starting him, pulling him then benching him. We could have easily gotten the Jets 2nd rounder at deadline. However we decided to keep him as insurance for the season (can't argue with that) and deal him at the end of the season.

I love Ramsey, and have been a fan of his ever since he played at the Tad, but he is not worth a 2nd or even a 3rd rounder this year, when Culpepper, Brees, Young, Lienart and Cutler are available. There just isnt demand. So lets stop arguing and change the debate to.

5th and conditional vs. Unhappy backup.

edit-yep bnacpa beat me to it!

simple. huh? ;-)

I'll take the unhappy backup.

If all we get in return is a 5th + a 3rd (at best), then his best value to us is as a backup :logo:

[AJ_Skins]

Obviously the rest of the league doesn't think as much of Ramsey as a lot of this board does. Too many flaws in his game that he's never improved upon.

On the contrary, I think the league has a lot of respect for Joe Gibbs, and they figure if this Hall of Fame coach thinks Ramsey is lower than dirt, why should they take a chance on him? He hasn't played enough, for a long enough stretch, for them to form an opinion based on what he's done on the field. It's more like, "Joe Gibbs thinks he's worthless? Good enough for me".

Simply put, when Gibbs yanked Ramsey in the Bears game, he took his trade value, threw it in the crapper and flushed it. That's just reality. The only way to get any reasonable value out of him is to keep him.

[MRMADD]

How unfortunate, then, that we can't trade him to ourselves for a 2nd-Round pic. Damn those talent evaluators in the NFL for seeing something that only makes him worth a 5th and a possible future 3rd!!!

You really don't get it. It simply doesn't matter what his value is to other organizations -- his value to the Skins is much higher than a 5th rounder.

I'll put it to you this way: do you think you could replace him with a fifth round pick? If Ramsey got hit by a bus today, could you find a suitable, experienced, talented backup for a 5th rounder?

I'll answer that for you: you couldn't.

So his value to the Skins is much higher than the market value. In that case, you don't sell.

[SkinsHokieFan]

We got a 3rd and 5th for Heath Shuler

I would expect at least that

[MRMADD]

We got a 3rd and 5th for Heath Shuler

I would expect at least that

Funny.... and Trent Dilfer, a Superbowl-winning QB, was traded for a 4th rounder.

[0mega]

So his value to the Skins is much higher than the market value. In that case, you don't sell.

:applause:

Preach it!

[Ant15fromNJ]

We mine as well give him away.

[ntotoro]

You really don't get it. It simply doesn't matter what his value is to other organizations -- his value to the Skins is much higher than a 5th rounder.

I get what you're saying. Even if I disagree with your assessment of Ramsey's worth as a Redskin, I still understand what you're saying.

Bottom line, though, is what we can get for him right now. You either trade him now or get literally nothing next year. If players only got traded for what fans thought they were worth, nothing in the NFL would ever get done. A #3 QB, which is what the rest of the league knows he's going to be if he remains here, is not worth a second-round pick.

[Isifhan]

Don't be too sure that Campbell is ready. Are you really confident that if Brunell goes down you'd be willing to have Campbell starting and no experienced backup?

I'm sure Campbell is ready because Gibbs has said on numerous occasions that he is ready. That's good enough for me, and I would think...good enough for you.

[MRMADD]

I get what you're saying. Even if I disagree with your assessment of Ramsey's worth as a Redskin, I still understand what you're saying.

Bottom line, though, is what we can get for him right now. You either trade him now or get literally nothing next year. If players only got traded for what fans thought they were worth, nothing in the NFL would ever get done. A #3 QB, which is what the rest of the league knows he's going to be if he remains here, is not worth a second-round pick.

So why would you trade him? If the entire league thinks he's worthless (and yes, a 5th round pick is pretty much worthless), you'd have to agree with that assessment to trade him. Don't the Skins need him more than they need a 5th round pick who, unless you believe in miracles, won't even make the squad?

And there is great value in keeping him this year even though he'll be an FA next year. He's an experienced veteran backup QB. The Skins NEED an experienced veteran backup QB, so if you trade Ramsey for nothing, then you're stuck having to replace him -- and I'm willing to bet that the Skins can't find an experienced QB as good as Ramsey for as little as they're paying him, so there won't be any cap relief in the end.