Isifhan Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 So why would you trade him? If the entire league thinks he's worthless (and yes, a 5th round pick is pretty much worthless), you'd have to agree with that assessment to trade him. Don't the Skins need him more than they need a 5th round pick who, unless you believe in miracles, won't even make the squad? Come on...even you have to see the fallacy in that statement. If Ramsey stays on we let him go for ZERO, nothing, nada next year. By your mentality we should just stop drafting in the 3rd round because Gems like...oh I dunno Tom Brady, will never be found in such low rounds. I'm not saying Ramsey isn't worth more than a 5th rounder but let's not be dramatic here...we get a pick in return for him if we trade him this year, we get nothing next year. It's not logic that you can't fit your head around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Ramsey and a 6th for a 4th and swap 3rds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 So why would you trade him? If the entire league thinks he's worthless (and yes, a 5th round pick is pretty much worthless), you'd have to agree with that assessment to trade him. Don't the Skins need him more than they need a 5th round pick who, unless you believe in miracles, won't even make the squad?And there is great value in keeping him this year even though he'll be an FA next year. He's an experienced veteran backup QB. The Skins NEED an experienced veteran backup QB, so if you trade Ramsey for nothing, then you're stuck having to replace him -- and I'm willing to bet that the Skins can't find an experienced QB as good as Ramsey for as little as they're paying him, so there won't be any cap relief in the end. As little as he's paid? A $2m #3 QB isn't exactly what I called inexpensive. He's gone. Gone, gone and gone again. A #3 guy gets paid in peanuts. He doesn't have to be Joe Montana or even Joe Mantegna. Ramsey either goes now or the team gets nothing next year, plus he wants a chance to start. When Coach Gibbs said last season that he'd be comfortable putting in Campbell, that spelled the end of Patrick Ramsey being even a #2 here. We get a fifth-round pick this year and maybe a third-round pick next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidenreich Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I'll take the unhappy backup. If all we get in return is a 5th + a 3rd (at best), then his best value to us is as a backup :logo: You really don't get it. It simply doesn't matter what his value is to other organizations -- his value to the Skins is much higher than a 5th rounder.I'll put it to you this way: do you think you could replace him with a fifth round pick? If Ramsey got hit by a bus today, could you find a suitable, experienced, talented backup for a 5th rounder? I'll answer that for you: you couldn't. So his value to the Skins is much higher than the market value. In that case, you don't sell. So why would you trade him? If the entire league thinks he's worthless (and yes, a 5th round pick is pretty much worthless), you'd have to agree with that assessment to trade him. Don't the Skins need him more than they need a 5th round pick who, unless you believe in miracles, won't even make the squad?And there is great value in keeping him this year even though he'll be an FA next year. He's an experienced veteran backup QB. The Skins NEED an experienced veteran backup QB, so if you trade Ramsey for nothing, then you're stuck having to replace him -- and I'm willing to bet that the Skins can't find an experienced QB as good as Ramsey for as little as they're paying him, so there won't be any cap relief in the end. The response to all three of these posts is the following: Joe Gibbs has seen all three quarterbacks in practice every day for the past year (Ramsey & Brunell for two). He now believes that Jason Campbell is ahead of Ramsey in terms of development. Therefore, Jason Campbell is our backup QB at this point. It is believed by some that Campbell will compete for the starting job this training camp with Mark Brunell. If Gibbs has that much confidence in Campbell, who am I to question? That kind of experience will do wonders for Campbell. And if Campbell wins the job, then we have a veteran backup in Brunell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I'm sure Campbell is ready because Gibbs has said on numerous occasions that he is ready. That's good enough for me, and I would think...good enough for you. I think we all have to admit to oursleves that Gibbs has done some very unusual things at the QB position since he came back. He wildly overspent for Brunell, he went through and entire offseason with Ramsey as the starter and then yanked him in the first quarter of week one, and he traded away multiple draft picks to move up and draft Jason Campbell, who had a mediocre college career and nobody thought was anything other than a potentially intriguing long-term project, at a pick that was easily 10-20 spots higher than any other team would have drafted him. Gibbs realized after this year that his offense wasn't working and stepped back. I hope at the end of next year he doesn't realize he's been horribly, horribly wrong about what kind of player you need at QB in the modern NFL, after it's too late. I almost think that's what Kirwan was trying to communicate in his article: "Coach, you really could be making a mistake..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRMADD Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I'm sure Campbell is ready because Gibbs has said on numerous occasions that he is ready. That's good enough for me, and I would think...good enough for you. Sigh... do you realize how pathetic this logical argument is? What you're saying is that you know nothing and have nothing to add to the conversation, so you're forced to fall back on an 'argument from authority'. If someone asks, "Why is the sky blue?" and you respond, "Because God says so!"... you're an idiot. God may very well say so... but it's neither helpful nor instructive. Campbell has never taken an NFL snap. Joe expresses confidence in him. Reports out of practice are all good. However... and this is a big however, my friend: reports out of practice are totally meaningless. If a coach's good word and some promising reports out of practice are good enough for you, then Taylor Jacobs should be starting over Moss, right? Campbell, like all rookie QBs, is going to have to learn on the field. I trust he's better now with a year of coaching, but I'd be very worried if I heard that Brunell hurt himself falling off his couch last night. Joe will get him ready, but no, I don't trust that he's ready to be a playoff QB now, which is what the Skins need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isifhan Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 He doesn't have to be Joe Montana or even Joe Mantegna. I don't know man I'd probably rather have Joe Mantegna...you see him in Glenn Gary Glenn Ross?? Genius...he can keep the pass rush off him by transfixing them with a brilliant monologue while santana gets open for the go ahead TD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I don't know man I'd probably rather have Joe Mantegna...you see him in Glenn Gary Glenn Ross?? Genius...he can keep the pass rush off him by transfixing them with a brilliant monologue while santana gets open for the go ahead TD! I figured he could snooker guys with the "Fat Tony" voice and run for first down. Either that or reprise his role as Joey Zasa. Nevermind... strike any remarks about Godfather III... :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidenreich Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Campbell, like all rookie QBs, is going to have to learn on the field. I trust he's better now with a year of coaching, but I'd be very worried if I heard that Brunell hurt himself falling off his couch last night. Joe will get him ready, but no, I don't trust that he's ready to be a playoff QB now, which is what the Skins need. Think back for me, if you will. The date is December 24th 2005. Mark Brunell has just left the game after taking a helmet to the knee. Enter Patrick Ramsey, who promptly burns two timeouts because the receivers aren't in the right spot. Granted, play three turned into a 75 yard touchdown strike to Santana Moss, only Moss made a leaping catch, and Will Allen probably showed some of the worst coverage and/or tackling skills in the history of the world on that play. Gibbs will never play Ramsey again because he forces the ball & throws too many interceptions. We don't like it when Brunell throws it away on third & 4 if the play isn't there, but Gibbs does. He'd rather punt than have a turnover. If the plan is for campbell to take the reigns this year or next, he has to be next in line if Brunell goes down. Also, I don't think Ramsey is a playoff ready QB either..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I don't know if Campbell can play QB in the NFL or not. What I do know is the amount of confidence being expressed in him before he ever hits the field makes me extremely worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isifhan Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Sigh... do you realize how pathetic this logical argument is? What you're saying is that you know nothing and have nothing to add to the conversation, so you're forced to fall back on an 'argument from authority'. If someone asks, "Why is the sky blue?" and you respond, "Because God says so!"... you're an idiot. I see. So the fact that I rely on what our hall of fame coach says after seeing him in practice for a full year mans that I'm an idiot? I counter with the fact that you never have coached at an NFL level and are refusing to listen to what a HOF coach said makes you the idiot. Sigh.... Look, we aren't debating the value of Campbell here, like it or not he is the future of the franchise, if you are so blinded by your love of Ramsey to see this, there is nothing I can say that will change your mind and I don't feel like wasting my time debating with you on that subject. What we are debating is the fact that we either A. Get compensation for Ramsey this year or B. Get nothing for him next year. Let me put it into terms that I'm sure even you can understand. I have just eaten my lunch and I'm full, but I have half a sandwhich remaining. If a hobo comes up to me and says I'll give you a dolla' for your ham sandwhich now, or I'm gunna wait until you throw it away and eat it for free...even though there's a chance that I may get hungry later...I'm going to take the hobo's dolla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 i guess i was overly optimistic in hoping for a 3rd. oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isifhan Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I don't know if Campbell can play QB in the NFL or not. What I do know is the amount of confidence being expressed in him before he ever hits the field makes me extremely worried. You have a glass half empy view of life I take it hehe...it makes me very happy that said confidence is being expressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I see. So the fact that I rely on what our hall of fame coach says after seeing him in practice for a full year mans that I'm an idiot? I counter with the fact that you never have coached at an NFL level and are refusing to listen to what a HOF coach said makes you the idiot. Sigh....Look, we aren't debating the value of Campbell here, like it or not he is the future of the franchise, if you are so blinded by your love of Ramsey to see this, there is nothing I can say that will change your mind and I don't feel like wasting my time debating with you on that subject. What we are debating is the fact that we either A. Get compensation for Ramsey this year or B. Get nothing for him next year. Let me put it into terms that I'm sure even you can understand. I have just eaten my lunch and I'm full, but I have half a sandwhich remaining. If a hobo comes up to me and says I'll give you a dolla' for your ham sandwhich now, or I'm gunna wait until you throw it away and eat it for free...even though there's a chance that I may get hungry later...I'm going to take the hobo's dolla. Unless you realize there's a chance you may find yourself suddenly without any food, and none to buy with your useless dollar, at which point you'll be kicking yourself for selling your ham sandwich while you starve to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I don't know if Campbell can play QB in the NFL or not. What I do know is the amount of confidence being expressed in him before he ever hits the field makes me extremely worried. Of course you're worried. It means Ramsey's gone, basically taking with him your raison d'être. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 You have a glass half empy view of life I take it hehe...it makes me very happy that said confidence is being expressed. Nobody ever bets as much on a late first round QB as this team appears to betting on Campbell. Never. It does not happen in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isifhan Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Unless you realize there's a chance you may find yourself suddenly without any food, and none to buy with your useless dollar, at which point you'll be kicking yourself for selling your ham sandwich while you starve to death. Sure...if all money becomes useless by the time I'm hungry again and I find myself on a desert island. Sufice it to say I'll take my chances :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isifhan Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Nobody ever bets as much on a late first round QB as this team appears to betting. Never. It does not happen in the NFL. It happens. The redskins did it. I guess time will tell if it's right yeah? I'm confident what about you? Wait...you answered that one already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 It looks like the Jets will have to fight the Detroit Lions for Washington quarterback Patrick Ramsey. The Lions are desperate for a replacement for Joey Harrington and have the money to make a deal http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5395320 lets see if following the rules and posting this in an exsisting thread actually works and somebody see's this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Sure...if all money becomes useless by the time I'm hungry again and I find myself on a desert island. Sufice it to say I'll take my chances :laugh: Of course you realize in this analogy, we're talking about finding yourself stranded in the middle of next season with an injured Brunell and a second year QB in Campbell who can't handle the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidenreich Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Nobody ever bets as much on a late first round QB as this team appears to betting on Campbell. Never. It does not happen in the NFL. That's funny. Ramsey is a late first round QB as well. And I can list plenty of post round one QB's to blow that theory out of the water....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Nobody ever bets as much on a late first round QB as this team appears to betting on Campbell. Never. It does not happen in the NFL. Yet you're willing to bet on a later 1st Rounder, picked so late that we were the only things keeping him from being a 2nd Rounder... ? If Campbell had to start against Chicago last year, I'd have been worried. That was last Summer. A lot of things change in that time and Coach Gibbs thinks he's ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbraun2 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I don't know if Campbell can play QB in the NFL or not. What I do know is the amount of confidence being expressed in him before he ever hits the field makes me extremely worried. Jason Campbell.....no one even mentioned his name untill his senior year. Is biggest challenge that year was do i hand it to Ronnie or Cadillac. I saw him play against LSU and Ole Miss, and he was very unimpressive, you could say LSU has a great defense, but Ole Miss?? If he cant dominate the Mighty Rebs with those guys in his backfield and solid SEC wideouts. Then the prospect of an NFL defense really really scares me. He just hasnt shown he can excell without all americans surrounding him. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Of course you realize in this analogy, we're talking about finding yourself stranded in the middle of next season with an injured Brunell and a second year QB in Campbell who can't handle the job. You must be a blast at parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isifhan Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 He just hasnt shown he can excell without all americans surrounding him. :2cents: I guess being surrounded by all pros like Santana Moss and Portis don't count...maybe they can't help carry the load a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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