Confusion (Political, Spiritual, etc.) for a College Student

[footballhenry]

As many of you know (as Ive made many republican or conservative type threads/posts) I consider myself a conservative. I began as a strong staunch conservative years ago when I first began to become interested in our political system. Since then, and most notably during college I have seen myself drift towards the center and now I consider myself a moderate conservative. This being my junior year, I have begun to take my studies more seriously (as many of you know, procrastination can get the best of college students) and read and study more fervently. Since doing so I have really been challenging my line of thought. I do not know if you can call it 'enlightment', but I sure as hell know its confusion.

I used to be a very stubborn (I suppose you could call it that) Bush supporter but now I am not so sure, with countless reports about Katrina, prewar intel, etc. Many of the things I have been reading just doesn't add up. Furthermore I just got done reading a very good book about soldiers and what they experience in war (Parallels). I always have had a strong support and belief in military, and while that hasn't wavered much my opinion on going to war has. I did fully agree with the Iraq war before, but I really am not so sure anymore especially considering how seriously bad it has gotten over there (it seems everyone, even republicans, are recognizing it could be on the brink of civil war). The death and destruction that war brings, it just really hit me in the gut when I read what Vietnam Veterans experienced over there in the 60's and 70's, the horrors are unspeakable.

This is a very interesting time for me right now as it seems everything is being challenged for me. My spiritual beliefs, religion, politics, social life, etc. For example I used to be against gay marriage but after meeting and becoming friends with some gay people, I dont know. I just feel people should be happy in that regard, though thats for another thread. Its definitely a 'learning' experience thats for sure.

I do think that Bush is a good man, I dont buy into the 'evil' comments but it becomes confusing when you read these U.N. reports, books, articles, etc. on well everything. Hahah, in short...Im very split and confused right now. The ES community is older and wiser than I am, thats for sure, have you guys gone through a political flip flop of sorts? Enlightment? Change of views, etc.? Im 20, so I guess Im finally trying to figure out what I believe rather than what others tell me to believe (how I was raised, taught and so forth). I must admit it is kind of exciting though.

I think its a good thing though, that my mind and thought-process is being challenged here at college, it really allows you to learn more about yourself and who you truly are while strengthening convictions you may have. :feedback:

:rant:

[Cdowwe]

And another one falls to the dark side. JK. Just make sure you make your own decisions

[Sarge]

Your mind obviously is being warped by college professors that smoked too much weed in the 60's.

Stand strong and give 'em hell.

[Major Harris]

we all go through changes, man. you sound a lot like me at your age. i really didn't "find myself" until i got out in to the real world, had a kid, etc. just be a sponge and absorb as much as you can. you'll figure out what you believe and where you stand in time.

[footballhenry]

Your mind obviously is being warped by college professors that smoked too much weed in the 60's.

Stand strong and give 'em hell.

Haha, I guess you could say that but my professors have been great. I certainly dont need them to agree with their stance in order to like them. Obviously the vast majority dont like Bush, are very liberal, etc. But I look at it as a POSITIVE and growing experience to learn their perspective, theirs certainly nothing wrong with that. One thing I have learned here in my studies is that its all about perspective, it truly is interesting to me how so many people have so different views, be it politically, spiritually, etc. I really enjoy interacting with people though, so again...I think its a good thing to learn from the opposing view, doesn't necessarily mean you agree but more tolerance is needed in our society.

[HOF44]

Older yes, wiser :whoknows:

[twa]

I think you need to drink more. That may not clear up your confusion, but it makes it more fun for the rest of us.

[footballhenry]

I think you need to drink more. That may not clear up your confusion, but it makes it more fun for the rest of us.

Haha, true true. Well its friday night, Im a college student. What do you think Im about to do?

[Prosperity]

As many of you know (as Ive made many republican or conservative type threads/posts) I consider myself a conservative. I began as a strong staunch conservative years ago when I first began to become interested in our political system. Since then, and most notably during college I have seen myself drift towards the center and now I consider myself a moderate conservative. This being my junior year, I have begun to take my studies more seriously (as many of you know, procrastination can get the best of college students) and read and study more fervently. Since doing so I have really been challenging my line of thought. I do not know if you can call it 'enlightment', but I sure as hell know its confusion.

I used to be a very stubborn (I suppose you could call it that) Bush supporter but now I am not so sure, with countless reports about Katrina, prewar intel, etc. Many of the things I have been reading just doesn't add up. Furthermore I just got done reading a very good book about soldiers and what they experience in war (Parallels). I always have had a strong support and belief in military, and while that hasn't wavered much my opinion on going to war has. I did fully agree with the Iraq war before, but I really am not so sure anymore especially considering how seriously bad it has gotten over there (it seems everyone, even republicans, are recognizing it could be on the brink of civil war). The death and destruction that war brings, it just really hit me in the gut when I read what Vietnam Veterans experienced over there in the 60's and 70's, the horrors are unspeakable.

This is a very interesting time for me right now as it seems everything is being challenged for me. My spiritual beliefs, religion, politics, social life, etc. For example I used to be against gay marriage but after meeting and becoming friends with some gay people, I dont know. I just feel people should be happy in that regard, though thats for another thread. Its definitely a 'learning' experience thats for sure.

I do think that Bush is a good man, I dont buy into the 'evil' comments but it becomes confusing when you read these U.N. reports, books, articles, etc. on well everything. Hahah, in short...Im very split and confused right now. The ES community is older and wiser than I am, thats for sure, have you guys gone through a political flip flop of sorts? Enlightment? Change of views, etc.? Im 20, so I guess Im finally trying to figure out what I believe rather than what others tell me to believe (how I was raised, taught and so forth). I must admit it is kind of exciting though.

I think its a good thing though, that my mind and thought-process is being challenged here at college, it really allows you to learn more about yourself and who you truly are while strengthening convictions you may have. :feedback:

:rant:

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Prosperity]

Haha, true true. Well its friday night, Im a college student. What do you think Im about to do?

dude, please do me this one request... powerade+sprite+vodka then tell me it isn't the best and easiest mix you have ever had.

[chomerics]

As many of you know (as Ive made many republican or conservative type threads/posts) I consider myself a conservative. I began as a strong staunch conservative years ago when I first began to become interested in our political system. Since then, and most notably during college I have seen myself drift towards the center and now I consider myself a moderate conservative. This being my junior year, I have begun to take my studies more seriously (as many of you know, procrastination can get the best of college students) and read and study more fervently. Since doing so I have really been challenging my line of thought. I do not know if you can call it 'enlightment', but I sure as hell know its confusion.

I used to be a very stubborn (I suppose you could call it that) Bush supporter but now I am not so sure, with countless reports about Katrina, prewar intel, etc. Many of the things I have been reading just doesn't add up. Furthermore I just got done reading a very good book about soldiers and what they experience in war (Parallels). I always have had a strong support and belief in military, and while that hasn't wavered much my opinion on going to war has. I did fully agree with the Iraq war before, but I really am not so sure anymore especially considering how seriously bad it has gotten over there (it seems everyone, even republicans, are recognizing it could be on the brink of civil war). The death and destruction that war brings, it just really hit me in the gut when I read what Vietnam Veterans experienced over there in the 60's and 70's, the horrors are unspeakable.

This is a very interesting time for me right now as it seems everything is being challenged for me. My spiritual beliefs, religion, politics, social life, etc. For example I used to be against gay marriage but after meeting and becoming friends with some gay people, I dont know. I just feel people should be happy in that regard, though thats for another thread. Its definitely a 'learning' experience thats for sure.

I do think that Bush is a good man, I dont buy into the 'evil' comments but it becomes confusing when you read these U.N. reports, books, articles, etc. on well everything. Hahah, in short...Im very split and confused right now. The ES community is older and wiser than I am, thats for sure, have you guys gone through a political flip flop of sorts? Enlightment? Change of views, etc.? Im 20, so I guess Im finally trying to figure out what I believe rather than what others tell me to believe (how I was raised, taught and so forth). I must admit it is kind of exciting though.

I think its a good thing though, that my mind and thought-process is being challenged here at college, it really allows you to learn more about yourself and who you truly are while strengthening convictions you may have. :feedback:

:rant:

Dude, a great post, you are finding out what the world is like and making decisions for yourself, you are becoming a man. I applaud you for that, and it reminds me of a Kipling poem, it is about self discovery, and understanding, something you are going through right now. . .

Here it is, it's called "if"

If you can keep your head when all about you

Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,

If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you

But make allowance for their doubting too,

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,

Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,

Or being hated, don't give way to hating,

And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,

If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster

And treat those two impostors just the same;

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken

Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,

Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,

And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings

And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss,

And lose, and start again at your beginnings

And never breath a word about your loss;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew

To serve your turn long after they are gone,

And so hold on when there is nothing in you

Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,

Or walk with kings--nor lose the common touch,

If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;

If all men count with you, but none too much,

If you can fill the unforgiving minute

With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,

Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,

And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son!

--Rudyard Kipling

What you are doing is what every person does once they get to spread their wings. I do not want to influence your thoughts, but instead only tell you to keep doing what you are doing. You will find your path in life, and this is a natural process that a man who is comfortable with himself, or a woman with herself goes through. You SHOULD feel everything you are feeling right now, it means you are opening up your mind, ignoring known stereotypes and or biases as well as listening to all sides. You are what the founding fathers had in mind when they set up our freedoms, they wanted more people like yourself out there. Great post, and keep up the good work. You're going to be a great man one day!

[HailSkinz1]

I think its a good thing though, that my mind and thought-process is being challenged here at college, it really allows you to learn more about yourself and who you truly are while strengthening convictions you may have. :feedback:

:rant:

Your thoughts and philosophy will change, or grow, throughout your life. When I was 20, I was a rebellious liberal. I voted for Mondel/Ferraro in 1984 (running against Reagan/Bush). In 1993, I celebrated the first of my three children's birth and her middle name is Reagan. You could say I did a lot of changing during the years between the two events. And, as you can tell, I'm now a Conservative Republican.

Having your convictions challenged is a good thing. It allows you to either maintain your conviction, or consider other angles. And it's entirely possible to consider other angles and become stronger in your convictions at the same time.

Just based on your post, I'd say you've got a pretty bright future.

Good luck and Hail!

H

[Mr. S]

that is exactly what the point of college is. Take courses that challenge you, that interest you, and in the end, make your own decisions as to who you are and what you believe in.

My one religions professor, the first day stated that some of the things in the course some of us may not agree with. He then stated that the point of this course is for people to think about the other side, and then make their own understanding. He wants us to think for ourselves. He also claims that the course will not make them change religions, but rather make them realize why it is what they believe in. I think it's pretty awesome either way.

[hokie4redskins]

The death and destruction that war brings, it just really hit me in the gut when I read what Vietnam Veterans experienced over there in the 60's and 70's, the horrors are unspeakable.

You gotta be real careful bro. We lost Vietnam at home first and it all started with people doubting validity/purpose/resolve by the slightest of bad news. Stand firm. I know how difficult it is when you're in an extremely liberal academic environment. You're completely bombarded by snakes trying to make you eat the fruit. Resolve is key. Don't fall into the "all hell is breaking loose" trap because then you'll end up a sad soul like some wimps on this board. Do you have a lot to learn yet? Absolutely. We all do. Don't ever stop questioning, but don't ever doubt your gut instincts either which have led you to conservative/logical thinking. Good luck.

:2cents:

Edit: Oh, and nice poem Choem [sic]. Why don't you go knit a sweater?

[Destino]

You gotta be real careful bro. We lost Vietnam at home first and it all started with people doubting validity/purpose/resolve by the slightest of bad news. Stand firm.

People did start doubting it's validity....and guess what? History proved them right. The incident that started the war was what 4skins? I'll let you tell the class.

[Destino]

footballhenry - my advice to you, forget your ever heard of "conservative" and "liberal". Judge people and parties on their actions not what they are supposed to stand for based on what you heard some buzz word means. Truth is sometimes it isn't even YOU that changed - it's the parties that are shifting all over the place.

I mean open your eyes man - the democrats are arguing for a balanced budget and the republicans are pushing for increased spending. The world has gone MAD!!!!

[hokie4redskins]

People did start doubting it's validity....and guess what? History proved them right. The incident that started the war was what 4skins? I'll let you tell the class.

Would've proved them wrong had we won the war. But defeatist mentality by the likes of Cronkite, Kerry, Fonda, etc. within our own borders prevented that from ever happening. Ever think about the possible implications had Saigon won the war? Every consider what that MAJOR defeat would've done to Moscow? Our demise in Vietnam only emboldened the Soviets to go into Afghanistan as well, which in turn, sent us to Afghanistan to ward the Soviet invasion off, by training future enemies of the state like Osama bin Laden. Of course, we now have the benefit of hindsight which you liberals use to make yourselves feel so smart. Instead, our efforts in Vietnam were lost in vain and it sent us into a nation-wide malaise post-war and through the Carter years. But hey, the doubters were proved right, right? WAY TO GO!!

Are you attempting to be witty by quizzing me dude or do you not know and need somebody to tell you? Or are you setting some lame trap for me so you can say, "AHA, I TOLD YOU SO!!" Whatever. Tell you what, since you don't know, I'll let you google it so YOU can "tell the class."

Regardless, victory was ours in Vietnam until people like you (who actually pride themselves on this) snatched defeat from the jaws of victory here in the U.S.

It's Defeatism 101, Destino. Shall I quiz you on that? Don't worry, you'll ace it.......with pride. Congratulations.

:finger:

[dfitzo53]

Would've proved them wrong had we won the war....

It's Defeatism 101, Destino. Shall I quiz you on that? Don't worry, you'll ace it.......with pride. Congratulations.

:finger:

How about we just leave this thread to answering footballhenry's question?

Footballhenry, I think you're on the right track. I recognize I'm only a year older, but I'll give my advice anyway:

Try all kinds of new stuff. Foods, books, movies, music, religious and political ideals, whatever. You never know when you're going to fall in love with something you never knew existed.

[Darth Tater]

"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."

Frederic Bastiat

[LD0506]

If we're gonna toss history around, go back to WWII and Vietnam and see where that led. The Allies and primarily the US armed and inspired native peoples to fight for self-determination as another source of pressure against the Japanese land army which we weren't getting at with carriers, etc. After the war, those same people were told "Oh we're gonna just reestablish the old status quo" and assisted the French in reasserting themselves in Indochina. Ole Uncle Ho appealed to the US and Truman asking what happened to the self determination jazz? and was rebuffed. Historically, and I mean for centuries the Vietnamese have been at war with the Chinese, it has defined them as a people and there was a chance in the late 40s and early 50s to steer the whole quadrant away from the communists and towards the West. We were so paralyzed by the Russian threat that we let it slip away. Now as they say hindsight is 20/20 but it is one more example of America shooting herself in the foot by not living up to the principles she espouses. None of this is inspired by personal politcal views (I always liked Patton's take on the Russians) but much like Iraq/ the whole damn MidEast, we never seem to take the time to understand the historical context of these conflicts.

[Major Harris]

dude, please do me this one request... powerade+sprite+vodka then tell me it isn't the best and easiest mix you have ever had.

you forgot the umbrella.

[dfitzo53]

you forgot the umbrella.

:laugh:

That's another thing I've learned, footballhenry. Just drink your damn alcohol.

[Prosperity]

you forgot the umbrella.

I defer all drinking advice to WVU grads. They are pros.

[Major Harris]

ok. in that case, you need an umbrella.

thanks for the compliment.

[The Animal Trainer]

Henry good post man...I've been on your same path for some time now. I'm graduating this semester and heading to law school so I have been doing a lot of reading and studying about government, politics, international relations, and history. I'm going to be graduating with a political science major and a history minor and I have taken a couple GREAT international relations classes the past 2 semesters.

While I was raised by fairily liberal parents (My mother is the director of Interfaith Hospitality Network, a national network of faith based homeless shelters and also counsels sexually abused children...my father sells insurance but they both vote democratic) I have always considered myself an independent. If you get stuck in a box of "liberal" or "conservative" and your decisions on any issue stem from that particular viewpoint, it would seem to me that you're working backwards. I pride myself on looking at both sides of an issue, thinking how it would affect myself as well as the parties involved, and try to put myself in the position of those involved to gain perspective and understanding on why they hold the positions they do...then, and only then, do I take a side on an issue, usually after reading many outside opinions in scholarly journals or books. It seems crazy to me the amount of people in this country that are so afraid to have their own opinion on issues and they must go with their party or idealogy on every issue.

This past election, I was fervently anti-Bush. Did I think Kerry was the best Democratic candidate in the past 20 years? Of course not. But my decision was based largely on War, Social Issues, and the overall efficiency of the government. In 2008, I hope John Mccain or Rudy Gulliani run for office and I will probably vote Republican. I beleive them both to be honest, patriotic, decent men who are strong leaders and will put our country and ALL its citizens above special interests or the elite. It's a shame the way Bush and his supporters slandered McCain in the 2000 primaries.

My major problem with Bush, Cheney, and many neoconservative republicans, is arrogance. Think of the billions and billions that are sucked out of our country every year to fund the war in Iraq...what else could we be doing with all that money? Or what about the thousands of U.S. soldiers and Iraqis that have been killed, the massive destruction, the children who have been orphaned, all over what? Iraq was no direct threat to us, we defied the UN and the international community and engaged in an agressive pre-emptive war, and now anti-americanism is at an all time high worldwide. I can't remember where I got this quote, but it has definately stuck with me..."War is the least productive of all human activities." I mean think about it, all the blood and treasure being dumped into Iraq has only caused more destruction and death up to this point. Not to mention the rampant corruption in government recently, the incompetence of the federal government's response to Katrina, and the largest budget deficit in the history of our country.

Sorry for my "liberal" rant, but I don't see it that way. All I have done is present the facts, as I see them and then thought long and hard about the consequences of those facts. I guess thats all any of us can do.

If anyone wants an in-depth study of Neoconservativism (Bush, Cheney, Scooter Libby, Paul Wolowitz all are card carrying Neocons) by Francis Fukuyama, a professor at The Advanced School of International Relations at Johns Hopkins and a world renowned international relations scholar, here's a link http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/19/magazine/neo.html?pagewanted=6&ei=5070&en=03fb01a96ae94df7&ex=1141621200&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1141497684-cpkPc3vuFC0mNHAPgYLUIg I've read many of his books and he is far from the "liberal" media, or "liberal college profressor" mold. Read it with an open mind.