I Guess It's Final (Jacobs Thread)

[Underwater Ally]

Where in the hell would they find evidence to support that crazy notion? :dunce:

I guess this merger has had some drawbacks

:laugh:

[Jumbo]

First of all, all those coaches, schemes, etc, I look at that as multiple opportunities for him to find a niche, not as an impediment for him to become productive.

Same point, if viable, would hold against all other players for whom those conditions are thrown up as a defense for performance issues.

[Jumbo]

I guess this merger has had some drawbacks

:laugh:

I am not a drawback! I am a human being!

[SlobberKnockinFootball]

Baseless.

Baseless???? Ok, tell me what Jacobs has done as an NFL WR??? You mean factual.

[SlobberKnockinFootball]

Even if it wasn't you who posted this, shouldn't you have been able to isolate one of the many threads with exactly the same content. Big supporter you are, calling a guy a bust and not offering up one single solid reason why. Worhtless.

Good backpedal.. blame it on me finding a thread.. Get a grip man.

[SlobberKnockinFootball]

A quarterback could help...

Someone needs to get the ball to him.

And he might need to get open at the same time?

[Peregrine]

Based on WHAT? He was thrown to once!!(except the botched spike).

[SlobberKnockinFootball]

Jacobs was only fourth due to his injury in a pre season scrimmage. You can't see on TV what Jacobs is really doing. He gets massive, massive amounts of seperation. He runs great routs. MARK BRUNNELL WON'T THROW HIM THE BALL. I like Mark Brunell I just don't understand why he won't pull the trigger. When is the last time you saw Brunnell step up and gun one down field? It was the Dallas game. The type of routes that Jacobs runs require a strong armed QB to get the ball there. Yesterday when Brunnell hurt his thumb he couldn't make those passes anymore. Stop hating on Taylor Jacobs. He hasn't been great but he surely doesn't deserve the "bust" label.

I recall him throwing atleast 3 to 4 deep passes to Jacobs in the Raiders game where he didn't get massive amounts of seperation. He was covered the entire time on those go routes. Yea, I give you that a couple of the passes were off, but Jacobs was not open either.

[SlobberKnockinFootball]

Tulane, for shame. I think your being a bit disingenuous here.

Where Taylor has been on the depth chart this season probably has as much to do with his health as his play. I know you were paying attention when the coaches talked to the press recently about how stellar his play has been in practice now that he's healthy again, right?

Just like I said before as I referred to the pro-baseball term 4:00pm hitter. Hits like Ted Williams at 4pm but when it's gametime he's 0 for 4 with 2 K's.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Here is my view on Jacobs.

Wide receivers typically take a little while to develop, but they at least show you "something" in their first or second year. Few receivers are Randy Moss and light up the league the second they arrive. Most struggle for a while.

But, there is usually a game or a quarter or at least a play, where a receiver does something to make you say, "Hmmm...this guy has talent." Braylon Edwards struggled this year, but he had a few impact games. Matt Jones doesn't even know how to play receiver and he has made a few great plays. Heck, Gardner always made enough plays during his time here to make you say, "Wow...if he could just eliminate the mistakes...."

Aside from a special teams play, I can't recall one impact play in Jacobs' time here. Has it been bad luck or improper usage? Maybe. But I can see us having this debate in week 12 next year.

I would just like to know what he has shown to give anyone any optimism. And don't tell me that Gibbs loves him in practice. Gibbs hasn't given a straight answer about personell in his career.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

And all I want is to see if you'll admit that "production" in football, especially for certain positions like receiver, cannot be fairly viewed as a standalone ... without also taking a close look at related factors like health, the system, the quarterback, the offensive line, the other receivers, etc.

Can you really blame me for asking that?

True. But don't you think Jacobs would have done something by now? Can you name one memorable play in his career besides the blocked punt?

[fansince62]

"here's what i've charted, which is probably about as much as you've charted. two games ago TJ had one catch for -1 yards. Yesterday, 1 catch for 7 yards.

There is nothing prejudicial about that. If i was prejudging him, I would have said he stinks before he stunk. But after the fact, i'm saying he stinks. That's not prejudicial. That's judicial."

1) The burden is on you...not me.

2) So you haven't been tracking...as I thought.

This is all about your angst for PR anyway.....it's easy to read between the lines.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Angst for PR? What does that mean, seriously... please explain that to me

[TheLongshot]

Seems everyone discounts his performance against SD. 4 catches for 44 yards, with three of them for first downs. Not bad when they decide to actually throw the ball.

I know this isn't eye-popping statistics, but guess what? Our passing offense isn't exactly eye-popping either. For all the games he started in, Brunell has less than 200 yards passing. Ok, one could say it was the receivers, but to be honest, Brunell doesn't seem to WANT to spread it around. In the last two weeks, he has two catches, but he's only been thrown to those two times. As others have said, you can only catch it if it is thrown to you.

As for his position on the depth chart, I think you are totally underestimating the importance of his injury, which the coaching staff has said that only just recently is he recovering from that. It also doesn't help that he was hurt at a time when you solidify the depth chart. It makes it hard to move up when you got guys in front of you, and they are doing their job.

You say that when Thrash comes back, that he'd be taking Jacobs' spot, but I don't think that's going to happen. Thrash is very important on ST, and he's still going to have a strong roll there. It probably means that Farrell is probably going to get less snaps.

There is also a fact that when the Skins are running the ball, Moss is often the only WR in the game. It is one reason why I think we see a lot of plays where we have either Moss or a TE/H-Back getting the ball, because that's all who happen to be in at the time.

To be honest, I can't judge Jacobs as a WR right now, just because he doesn't get the ball thrown to him to find out. I'm a bit disappointed that Gibbs hasn't tried to get him more involved, considering that this is a prime opportunity to find out about Jacobs once and for all, and it isn't getting done.

Jason

[RDSKNfaithfull]

Seems everyone discounts his performance against SD. 4 catches for 44 yards, with three of them for first downs. Not bad when they decide to actually throw the ball.

I know this isn't eye-popping statistics, but guess what? Our passing offense isn't exactly eye-popping either. For all the games he started in, Brunell has less than 200 yards passing. Ok, one could say it was the receivers, but to be honest, Brunell doesn't seem to WANT to spread it around. In the last two weeks, he has two catches, but he's only been thrown to those two times. As others have said, you can only catch it if it is thrown to you.

As for his position on the depth chart, I think you are totally underestimating the importance of his injury, which the coaching staff has said that only just recently is he recovering from that. It also doesn't help that he was hurt at a time when you solidify the depth chart. It makes it hard to move up when you got guys in front of you, and they are doing their job.

You say that when Thrash comes back, that he'd be taking Jacobs' spot, but I don't think that's going to happen. Thrash is very important on ST, and he's still going to have a strong roll there. It probably means that Farrell is probably going to get less snaps.

There is also a fact that when the Skins are running the ball, Moss is often the only WR in the game. It is one reason why I think we see a lot of plays where we have either Moss or a TE/H-Back getting the ball, because that's all who happen to be in at the time.

To be honest, I can't judge Jacobs as a WR right now, just because he doesn't get the ball thrown to him to find out. I'm a bit disappointed that Gibbs hasn't tried to get him more involved, considering that this is a prime opportunity to find out about Jacobs once and for all, and it isn't getting done.

Jason

Gibbs has tried. They were forcing him the ball in the raiders game. You ever listen to Gibbs praise Santana Moss saying he has great long ball reaction he looks up and knows where the ball is and doesnt' go for it untill the last second? Well Jacobs runs with his head backwards the whole route with a soft double move and has his arms out like a highschool reciever searching for the ball while its in mid air.

[TheLongshot]

Gibbs has tried. They were forcing him the ball in the raiders game.

Unfortunatly, I don't think that's his strength right now. I also don't think it is Brunell's strength right now either. He certainly didn't have a problem getting open in the SD game.

Jason

[Om]

Just like I said before as I referred to the pro-baseball term 4:00pm hitter. Hits like Ted Williams at 4pm but when it's gametime he's 0 for 4 with 2 K's.

True. But don't you think Jacobs would have done something by now? Can you name one memorable play in his career besides the blocked punt?

Why are you guys being so obtuse? Is it deliberate?

I have not once suggested Jacobs has been great, or even that he's been good. All I've said, several times now, is that in my view the man has NOT had "the opportunity" to prove what he is one way or the other yet, despite some of you saying over and over that he has.

The reasons for that statement are obvious, and have also been repeated several times:

- his crappy history with injuries,

- the tumult in offensive schemes/QB's/OL problems since he's been here, and,

- now that he IS actually on the field for once, the fact that his QB seemingly either cannot or will not throw to any WR besides Moss or anyone beyond about 15 yards downfield.

But enough repetition. The premise of the thread was that it was "final" that Jacobs is a "bust." I believe that premise, to anyone reading objectively, has been shot all to shreds, not just by me, but by several others.

And I'm good with that.

So I'll see you gentlemen at the next windmill.

[tenken627]

Wide Receiver is the most unique position in the NFL. No other position relies on a 2nd person for his own production. A QB throws, a RB runs, Linemen block, Defensive players rush the passer or tackle.

WR needs someone to throw him the ball.

I agree that players that have potential has shown at least "flashes" of that potential, even though they are not producing at the desired level.

Like stated earlier TJ has had his fair shares of injuries/offensive turmoil and turnover/and tunnel vision to other receivers which limits our knowledge of him.

But it is because of those reasons that I think if he will ever become a good NFL WR, it won't be with the Redskins.

He never really got a "fair shot" with the Redskins, but people will argue that Ramsey hasn't either with the whole Spurrier debacle. They are both good guys, and I hope they will have good careers, as long as they are not with divisional rivals (ahem, ahem, McCants).

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Why are you guys being so obtuse? Is it deliberate?

I have not once suggested Jacobs has been great, or even that he's been good. All I've said, several times now, is that in my view the man has NOT had "the opportunity" to prove what he is one way or the other yet, despite some of you saying over and over that he has.

The reasons for that statement are obvious, and have also been repeated several times:

- his crappy history with injuries,

- the tumult in offensive schemes/QB's/OL problems since he's been here, and,

- now that he IS actually on the field for once, the fact that his QB seemingly either cannot or will not throw to any WR besides Moss or anyone beyond about 15 yards downfield.

But enough repetition. The premise of the thread was that it was "final" that Jacobs is a "bust." I believe that premise, to anyone reading objectively, has been shot all to shreds, not just by me, but by several others.

And I'm good with that.

So I'll see you gentlemen at the next windmill.

Those are weak arguments.

- his crappy history with injuries

Braylon Edwards' season is over. But in a few games, he proved to anyone watching that he can play. If anything, this just proves that Jacobs is injury-prone. And if your career is over-shadowed by injuries, you can eventually be called a bust. Ki-Jana Carter had a crappy injury history too.

- the tumult in offensive schemes/QB's/OL problems since he's been here,

The first point is just wrong. There was one transition in schemes from Spurrier to Gibbs and it's not like he had to re-learn Spurrier's scheme. He should have been ahead of everyone when he arrived here. Jacobs has had to learn two offensive schemes since he was recruited in college.

As for poor QB play, there's possibly something to that. But receivers make names for themselves with bad qbs. Hines Ward went from fourth-round pick to All Pro with Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddox throwing him the ball.

And there has been no games lost to injury on the O-line this year, which is just miraculous. And I don't know how this impacts the fact that a receiver can't get on the field.

- now that he IS actually on the field for once, the fact that his QB seemingly either cannot or will not throw to any WR besides Moss or anyone beyond about 15 yards downfield.

So, now it's Brunell's fault?

[Seabee1973]

it seems the only time the really go to Jacobs is long I think they should go to him in more short passes, this in turn would open up Moss more if teams had to respect Taylor they might keep a safety there close to the play wich would free up moss. And yes if you watch the games Brunell it looks always looks to Moss then cooley then portis or whoever is designated as the thgird target. he should start looking at the other guys.

[skinstzar]

Those are weak arguments.

- his crappy history with injuries

Braylon Edwards' season is over. But in a few games' date=' he proved to anyone watching that he can play. If anything, this just proves that Jacobs is injury-prone. And if your career is over-shadowed by injuries, you can eventually be called a bust. Ki-Jana Carter had a crappy injury history too.

- the tumult in offensive schemes/QB's/OL problems since he's been here,

The first point is just wrong. There was one transition in schemes from Spurrier to Gibbs and it's not like he had to re-learn Spurrier's scheme. He should have been ahead of everyone when he arrived here. Jacobs has had to learn two offensive schemes since he was recruited in college.

As for poor QB play, there's possibly something to that. But receivers make names for themselves with bad qbs. Hines Ward went from fourth-round pick to All Pro with Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddox throwing him the ball.

And there has been no games lost to injury on the O-line this year, which is just miraculous. And I don't know how this impacts the fact that a receiver can't get on the field.

- now that he IS actually on the field for once, the fact that his QB seemingly either cannot or will not throw to any WR besides Moss or anyone beyond about 15 yards downfield.

So, now it's Brunell's fault?[/quote']

Here is the problem. A few games does not a career make. Steve Smith caught 10 passes in his first full season as a pro. He is just one of many examples I can give you. It is too early to use the word bust.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Here is the problem. A few games does not a career make. Steve Smith caught 10 passes in his first full season as a pro. He is just one of many examples I can give you. It is too early to use the word bust.

And he caught 54 balls in year two and 88 in year three.

Jacobs is in year three and has 30 career catches. Shouldn't a second round pick be averaging more than 10 catches a year by now?

[skinstzar]

And he caught 54 balls in year two and 88 in year three.

Jacobs is in year three and has 30 career catches. Shouldn't a second round pick be averaging more than 10 catches a year by now?

Yes but if the coaches don't play him, the quarterback doesn't look his way and he has injury problems then he can't catch the ball. Doesn't make him a bust. It just means that he hasn't developed due to extenuating circumstances. Give him the rest of this season then pass judgement.

[denverdan]

I saw Farris wide open, the only thing I saw from Jacobs and this came from the replay video with the type ticker at the stadium, pass to TYLER Jacobs for a 7 yard gain and pass intenteded for TYLER Jacobs 3rd down and thats about it. Taylor didn't have much of a game and neither did Tyler.

[AzSkinsFan63]

I guess it's final that Taylor Jacobs is not a NFL WR. If you would of told me he was playing yesterday I would look at you in shock. They guy is practically non-existent in our offense. I think it's safe to say we can label him a "Bust" and move on. No more hopes and dreams for this guy to be more than he is. He's just a 4th or 5th string WR. The Mike Doss pick sounds pretty good right about now.

I was at the game...noone was open....

it was magical how well the Cards defense played..the one Brunell had to throwo away out of the back of the end zone to cooley..there were 5 Cardinals back there covering him LOL..geez!!

but it still wasn't enough!!!!