dieselfan44 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Our draft is already shot, that is not an issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwebst1 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 If you can tell me how to off-set a 1600.00 invoice in a month, oh please do tell me....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 If you can tell me how to off-set a 1600.00 invoice in a month, oh please do tell me....... Don't renew your season's tickets.... purchase NFL Sunday Ticket for $250. And you pocket the other $1300. That's a logical response. But I'm not talking to a logical person am I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking Deadman Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 I agree with all that you said, but why can't a true fan be realistic or even question what his team does? Does questioning Gibbs' playcalling or decision making make me a bad fan? I still go to every single game, good weather or bad weather, even when they've been out of the race for 2 months, wearing my Skins jersey, rooting as hard as I can for my team. I also bleed B&G, but I don't think being realistic or questioning a coach or player, makes anyone a bad fan..... Look, I sit next to jwebst1 and can vouch (not that he needs verification) that he's out there cheering and screaming his head off. Matter of fact, other than me, him, my wife and his guest-- THERE WERE HARDLY ANYBODY in our row and the adjacent row present when the game started (until the 2nd Qtr when it appeared that fans above moved down) and then not until the middle of the 3rd Qtr. except a few Raiders fans. Y'know who the crappy fans were yesterday? The ones that weren't paying attention to the game, the ones that were wasting time fighting with other Redskins fans. The ones who were too drunk to realize that they were not in the men's room but in the ladies room (My wife said that some drunk guy walked into the ladies room and was suprised that there were women there (guess he thought they were in the wrong bathroom). As for being critical of the players and the play calling, who isn't? Portis fumbling 2X's yesterday is poor......hopefully he'll play better vs SD. Parson muffed the ball 4 times yesterday, Brunell still fumbles. Jacobs hasn't proven to me the hype that his team mates have said about him. The D could have been burned for alot worse had some of the Raiders actually caught passes yesterday. And some of coaches plays are very predictable. Everybody looked bad......suck it up, we talk about leadership in the lockeroom for the team, well it counts for the fan base as well. Forget the playoffs, let's just look to the San Diego game and come out as the underdog. Y'know, San Diego is supposed to beat us now if they want a shot at he playoffs.......lets dissapoint the Chargers fan base and the people rooting against us for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan080 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Theres two games where I didnt see this team play with a ton of heart as a ENTIRE TEAM. That was in NY, and in my opinion yesterday against the Raiders. I mean guys were here and there, but it just never seemed like people were picking each other up and getting it together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal2Washington Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 I agree with all that you said, but why can't a true fan be realistic or even question what his team does? Does questioning Gibbs' playcalling or decision making make me a bad fan? I still go to every single game, good weather or bad weather, even when they've been out of the race for 2 months, wearing my Skins jersey, rooting as hard as I can for my team. I also bleed B&G, but I don't think being realistic or questioning a coach or player, makes anyone a bad fan..... You my friend are a real fan, I'm talking about the personal attacks on the team. If feel Gibbs should have passed when he ran then that's a debatable fact, if you feel Gregg Williams should have played zone instead of blitzing that's a debatable fact. When a person says Gregg Williams is a egomanical person that is tanking the games by not playing a certain player or not adjusting a certain scheme then you are not a real fan. Here's why, if one feels that strongly against Gregg Williams then subconsciously failure would be the goal for that poster so he can in turn post a I told you so type thread or post. Look at the Lavar situation, people wanted Holdman to do bad week in and week out so Lavar could get in regardless if the team won or lost and to say Gregg Williams didn't know what he was doing. Who can one be a true fan if the team losing is proving your point and we're reliving the same situation just not as noticeable with Walt Harris and Carlos Rogers. People want to see Harris get burned so he gets benched, well if Harris gets burned then we have a higher chance of losing, that to me is not being a true fan. Debate over a certain player or play or coach is perfectly acceptable, but a lot of posters want to see certain players or coaches fail to prove a point which is nowhere near being a good fan. :dallasuck :eaglesuck :gaintsuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwebst1 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Look, I sit next to jwebst1 and can vouch (not that he needs verification) that he's out there cheering and screaming his head off. Matter of fact, other than me, him, my wife and his guest-- THERE WERE HARDLY ANYBODY in our row and the adjacent row present when the game started (until the 2nd Qtr when it appeared that fans above moved down) and then not until the middle of the 3rd Qtr. except a few Raiders fans.Y'know who the crappy fans were yesterday? The ones that weren't paying attention to the game, the ones that were wasting time fighting with other Redskins fans. The ones who were too drunk to realize that they were not in the men's room but in the ladies room (My wife said that some drunk guy walked into the ladies room and was suprised that there were women there (guess he thought they were in the wrong bathroom). As for being critical of the players and the play calling, who isn't? Portis fumbling 2X's yesterday is poor......hopefully he'll play better vs SD. Parson muffed the ball 4 times yesterday, Brunell still fumbles. Jacobs hasn't proven to me the hype that his team mates have said about him. The D could have been burned for alot worse had some of the Raiders actually caught passes yesterday. And some of coaches plays are very predictable. Everybody looked bad......suck it up, we talk about leadership in the lockeroom for the team, well it counts for the fan base as well. Forget the playoffs, let's just look to the San Diego game and come out as the underdog. Y'know, San Diego is supposed to beat us now if they want a shot at he playoffs.......lets dissapoint the Chargers fan base and the people rooting against us for a change. Thank you..... I've got King of ALL REDSKIN FANS trying to put me down and insult me. But I'm sure he'll still fire back, being that he clearly is the Greatest Redskin fan of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Skins Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Look for heaven's sake can't we stay off all this "I'm a better fan than you" BS?? Die Hard, with respect you should set a better example. I agreed with a lot of Loyal2Washington's list but categorising us as different types of fans is better left for the opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Want more? I think you mean 'crappy people', or 'people I don't like'... not necessarily crappy fans. but same difference, really.... as applied to the first post of this thread. Why would the team want to win one for a collection of assholes who happen to be fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 I think you mean 'crappy people', or 'people I don't like'... not necessarily crappy fans. but same difference, really.... as applied to the first post of this thread. Why would the team want to win one for a collection of assholes who happen to be fans? No, crappy people would be completely different. It's funny that creating a Redskins website makes you "King of Redskin fans".... I never thought that. Or why I'm not allowed to call a spade a spade... because I'm a volunteer internet message moderator. People have some messed up value systems here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 well DH, by definition, a fan is a 'ardent admirer or enthusiast' or 'an enthusiastic devotee' So anyone who would take the time to hunt down this board, register, and post... well... pretty difficult to argue that they are not a fan... or a crappy one at that. That seems like the actions of an enthusiastic devotee to me. Once again... I think what we're talking about is crappy people. ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 but same difference, really.... as applied to the first post of this thread. Why would the team want to win one for a collection of assholes who happen to be fans? Exactly. Friggin Redskins.... win one for the fans. You know us? The loudmouths screaming Blache sucks, Williams sucks, Gibbs sucks, Bugel sucks, the 0-line sucks, the defense ducks, Walt Harris sucks, Portis fumbles too much, Arrington is a free-lancer, cut him and take a $17 cap hit... so then I can complain about the front office.... and our draft sucks. And the owner sucks, and Vinny sucks. Have I left anyone or anything out? Oh yeah, and we need to change the name of the team... because it's offense. And our stadium sucks too. And gosh darn.... win a game for the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Skins Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 You forget the Brunell sucks brigade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMetal Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 No, no, I have to agree with Zoony - we're blurring the lines between fandom and personality. A lot of the criticism being levelled in here is based on attitude and perspective, IMO. I think a fan CAN be impulsive, emotional, even reactionary. And I can certainly understand a fan needing to take a break to recharge their batteries and let their bitterness dissolve. These defeats can really hurt, beyond a simple W/L bottom line. I think a fan/team relationship is a lot like a marriage in many ways. You're stuck together through all kinds of weather. You have you good days and bad days. Sometimes you overrreact, or have outbursts that aren't based in sound logic. Some times you need to take a break and collect yourself. But the commitment is always there. If we didn't love 'em so much, we wouldn't get so upset and act stupidly on occasion. Sometimes we're at fault, sometimes we're not. The love is always there though. Just my two cents~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking Deadman Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 No, no, I have to agree with Zoony - we're blurring the lines between fandom and personality. A lot of the criticism being levelled in here is based on attitude and perspective, IMO. I think a fan CAN be impulsive, emotional, even reactionary. And I can certainly understand a fan needing to take a break to recharge their batteries and let their bitterness dissolve. These defeats can really hurt, beyond a simple W/L bottom line. I think a fan/team relationship is a lot like a marriage in many ways. You're stuck together through all kinds of weather. You have you good days and bad days. Sometimes you overrreact, or have outbursts that aren't based in sound logic. Some times you need to take a break and collect yourself. But the commitment is always there. If we didn't love 'em so much, we wouldn't get so upset and act stupidly on occasion. Sometimes we're at fault, sometimes we're not. The love is always there though. Just my two cents~ Great Post.....there are alot of people angry on the site yesterday and today. It was a bad loss especially after high expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsdude Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 No, no, I have to agree with Zoony - we're blurring the lines between fandom and personality. A lot of the criticism being levelled in here is based on attitude and perspective, IMO. I think a fan CAN be impulsive, emotional, even reactionary. And I can certainly understand a fan needing to take a break to recharge their batteries and let their bitterness dissolve. These defeats can really hurt, beyond a simple W/L bottom line. I think a fan/team relationship is a lot like a marriage in many ways. You're stuck together through all kinds of weather. You have you good days and bad days. Sometimes you overrreact, or have outbursts that aren't based in sound logic. Some times you need to take a break and collect yourself. But the commitment is always there. If we didn't love 'em so much, we wouldn't get so upset and act stupidly on occasion. Sometimes we're at fault, sometimes we're not. The love is always there though. Just my two cents~ I personally enjoy coming on this board and hearing what everyone has to say, whether I agree or not. It wouldn’t be any fun or very interesting if everybody had the same opinion. We are very lucky on this board to be able to voice our opinion as we see it. The owners and moderators of other boards that I have visited do not allow you to make impulsive, emotional, or reactionary posts; if it doesn’t give them a warm and fuzzy feeling, they don’t want to hear it. We need to understand that different people see and view things differently and their point of view and opinions are as important as your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 what a riot! one group of folks is trying to set behavioral norms for another - this is what this is all about. talk about the height of arrogance! but...I kinda like the idea...I'm sure none of the folks attempting to legislate what being a good fan entails will have any objections if I preach - a little - about what it means to be a "Patriot"...at least as I see it....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 what a riot!one group of folks is trying to set behavioral norms for another - this is what this is all about. talk about the height of arrogance! but...I kinda like the idea...I'm sure none of the folks attempting to legislate what being a good fan entails will have any objections if I preach - a little - about what it means to be a "Patriot"...at least as I see it....... Go do that in the Tailgate. What's stopping you? Arrogance? I've defined my own personal definition of a crappy fan. Does arrogance entails explaining one's definition after being asked by 2 different persons Al? Just like you've set your own moral, personal and behavioral standards you'd expect from say... family (wife, children), extended family, friends, co-workers, etc. By your definition, does that make you arrogant as well? All I'm saying is... if I wasn't going to win the game for myself, my coaches, my teammates or the "good" fans... I'm certainly not going to bust my @ss for crappy fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 i hope you all realize that the bears have only beat 1 TEAM WITH A WINNING RECORD. how does that justify that they have more heart than us. They beat the Lions twice, Ravens, 49ers, Saints, and the Panthers. The Panthers being the only one with a winning record. They also lost to the Packers and Browns. O yeah... we also beat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 I see a number of our guys playing hurt, takes nothing but heart to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skin_finatic Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 70% of the Redskins fans on here are crappy fans. your definitly right but I would raise it to about 75-80% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsman4u Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 ...it seems that other teams always have a back-up player who moves in and plays well when the first teamer is struck down. we seem to be ok in this regard as far as DL run defense is concerned...but not much else. That's called your margin of error. Teams that don't have one in the NFC East or has a low margine of error are: Dallas...i.e. if Bledsoe goes down that's it... and other areas too. NY Giants if Manning goes down thats it and sometimes even when he's up. Eagles definetly if Westbrook goes down. Our margin of error is pretty high especially in the skill positions except receiver. Our DL and OL has a low margine of error itself. But our OL is the error. Go Skins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakermaker897 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 hey guys! im shocked about how everyone is taking a 3 pt loss. the raiders are not a crappy team. they were, to me, one of those teams that was a lot better than their record indicated. so we got outplayed, it happens. it may be the case that we just aren't there this year. however, i just get a different feeling from the team this year. like we're on the verge. we feel like a decent team instead of a bunch of losers. as far as real fans go... i mean come on. not everyone is going to yell every play. personality was mentioned earlier and that plays a big role. if someone wants to get drunk while they watch, who cares? there are some ppl that would rather have 8 drinks rather than 5000+ meaningless posts. yeah losses suck but you gotta just let it go. players do that. fans should do that. and i dont think that our season is quite over yet either... just wait it out there are still 6 games left. i watch every game and head to 1 or 2 a year but i dont fantascize about sleeping with the players... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Oh yeah, the Raiders really had more heart yesterday! More like, luck! One time Randy Moss just jogged out a route to the sidelines and b/c of it the pass darn near got picked off by Shawn Springs. Joey Porter also half-a$$ed a deep route one time fearing Sean Taylor would take his head off resulting in an incompletion. Rich Gannon even commented on it after the play saying the Raiders recievers weren't giving enough effort. I never heard one time the announcers bring up a Redskin player lacking in effort and I never saw a Redskin player lollygag either. No the Raiders aren't exactly the heartiest bunch! They just got by on their talent, which is what we lack. We need more talent particuarly at reciever and D-line and it makes it even more problematic when you start losing players at one of those spots(which was reciever and I think that had something to do with our lack of 2nd half offense yesterday after Thrash went down right before half). The heart is there though and if it wasn't, Joe Gibbs would be cutting some players! HTTR!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 hey guys!im shocked about how everyone is taking a 3 pt loss. the raiders are not a crappy team. they were, to me, one of those teams that was a lot better than their record indicated. I agree. I have been much more positive and optimistic this season because I definitely see a better product being put on the field. I also happen to think that our Redskins are better than their record indicates. Brunell is a consumate pro, Portis is a huge team-player, Moss is a bonafide star, and our defense is still awesome, despite having to play on a short field alot. The only bad thing I have to say about the 2005 Washington Redskins (and it's very negative indeed) is that they fumble like pee-wee leaguers. It's pathetic and everyone here knows it's true. These are NFL players, for gosh sakes. Call me a "bad fan" if you like, but even the staunchest of the staunch among us (yes, even you DH ) cannot deny that the RIDICULOUS turnover spree is churning your guts. It embarasses an otherwise VERY respectful squad of players. I find it quite embarrassing as a fan, too. Hold the ball, Redskins. You're making yourselves look bush. Heck- Until you stop fumbling, all you are is "talented bush." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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