CNN:Exxon sees quarterly profits surge 75 percent

[supafly]

Oil is no different than eggs.

Oil is no different than milk.

If every milk company decided we were going to charge 32$ a gallon of milk and make Historical Record profits and there's no shortage? What would be the statement then.

Good, I'm glad i bought milk subsidies? Let the market decide who get calcium and who doesnt? Let the market right itself?

You insert Microsoft in there instead of Exxon and people are crying foul because they wouldnt let a competitor put their browser in their product and made places like Best buy put their product into machines.. Something you don't NEED to have.. yet the outrage was there...

Shale oil, Anwar and Superhybrids would ruin the stock as the US uses 25% of the Worlds oil so if we were selling it also and using 1/30th of what we were it would go back to 50 cents a gallon...

I guess i just have to be glad Eggs arent a stock? or that at least they have 0 change.

Wow, The absolute ignorance around here is amazing. Economics 101, read up on elasticity of demand: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elasticity_%28economics%29

Oil and gas and monopolies such as MS, provide products which have a low price elasticity of demand, this means they can drive the prices up and the quantity demanded will not change that much. People dont NEED milk and eggs, but they damn well need gas.

Such conditions allow for easier abuse if not monitored and regulated by the government. The fact that these oil companies are making record profits while the avg citizen is suffering from higher gas prices is disturbing and bears closer scrutiny by the government.

[Fergasun]

Yes, yes we get it.... because Shell, Exxon, 76, Arco, Sheetz, Philips, Sunoco, Chevron or whoever always raise their prices at the same rate there is collusion going on. Much like if Coke and Pepsi both decided to charge $3 for a 20 oz bottle, then they started to charge $4 for a 20 oz bottle.

Let's step through this. In a neighborhood there is a Shell, Exxon and a Citgo all in the same area. The gas trucks bring gas every 4 days. They all get filled up, and one day the Shell owner decides to lower gas by $0.20/gal . Thus, there is a rush of everyone to the Shell station, but in that 1 day it takes out all of his gas supply. Plus, this would cause a half hour wait for consumers. Some people may even feel it's worth it to go to the Exxon and Citgo because they don't want to wait 1/2 hour. Now, for the next 3 days Mr. Shell has no gas, which means he has nothing to draw customers to the convenience store... and he sold his gas for $0.20/gal less so he lost all that money and what did he gain for it? In the meantime Exxon and Citgo get MORE customers because not everyone filled up on the cheaper gas... so people who normally buy gas from Shell go to other stations. They are able to keep their gas station full, and people coming and buying sodas, chips, maps, etc because they have gas to draw people in., thust they make more money over the period.

I don't pretend to know what caused profits, but I do know in some areas Exxon's revenue decreased due to an increase in raw materials. It also should be noted that Exxon stock didn't rise a lot on this announcement, but went down a little.

My wife is an accountant and I've been reading some of her economics textbooks... there are two different quotes from Adam Smith about the type of societies that occur under free markets.

Sympathetic Society

It is thust that man, who can subsist only in society, was fitted by nature to that situation for which he was made. All the members of human society stand in need of each other's assistance, and are likewise exposed to mutual injuries. Where the necessary assistance is reciprocally afforded from love, from gratitude, from friendship, and esteem, the society flourishes and is happy. All the different members of it are bound together by the agreeable bands of love and affection, and are, as it were, drawn to one common centre of mutual good offices.

Mercenary Society

But through the necessary assistance should not be afforded from such generous and disinterested motives, though among the different members of society there should be no mutual love and affection, the society, though less happy and agreeable, will not necessarily be dissolved. Society may subsist among different men, as among different merchants, from a sense of its utility, without any mutual love or affection; and though no man in it should owe any obligation, or be bound in gratitude to any other, it may still be upheld by a mercenary exchange of good offices according to an agreed valuation.

I'd argue that those who are upset over the profits of a gas company wish we lived in a more sympathetic society... but those who are "benefitting" from the profits are glad that we live in a mercenary society. I've often wished that we could live in a more sympathetic society, what Adam Smith called as "Optimal" but it seems to me I have to learn how to live in the "Suboptimal" mercenary society.

[Bang]

I have noticed a distinct dropoff in the laughing over the last 3 pages of this thread.

I guess some evidence is too much to ignore.

Ill gotten gain at the expense and detriment of the people of the country everyone claims to love so dearly... the hypocrisy is deafening.

The worst of it is I seriously doubt there will ever be any recriminations for any of this.

And make no mistake, it's not just the price of gas that is going up,, the price of EVERYTHING is going up as a result of the gas gouging. From electricity to bread, the basics of living, all going up up and away.

Off with their heads.

By the way, for those who asked... I have altered how I do things. I don't drive much. I have changed my lifestyle over the last few years to try to conserve not only the money I lay out in commuting, but also my sanity (route 4 every day,, no thanks.) I didn't necesarily do it because i foresaw any of this, but i am sure as hell glad I am in the position I am now. (I live about 65 miles from DC< and practically everyone I know drives it every single day. i don't know how the hell they can afford it, especially since none of them have received a raise to help balance the rising costs. As it is, my tank gets filled on average about every other week. I took Bush's advice of a few weeks ago, and I try to limit my driving. I do all of my driving in as few trips as possible these days, I schedule out of office appointments so i can do them in one trip if possible. I try to do my part, not because I am some "tree hugger", but because I don't want to go to an appointment to get a contract just so i can pay for the gas it takes to drive to the appointments.

~Bang

[chomerics]

I'd argue that those who are upset over the profits of a gas company wish we lived in a more sympathetic society... but those who are "benefitting" from the profits are glad that we live in a mercenary society. I've often wished that we could live in a more sympathetic society, what Adam Smith called as "Optimal" but it seems to me I have to learn how to live in the "Suboptimal" mercenary society.

How can you not even question the amount of profit these companies are making, while the cost is crippling the American public? Are you that blinded by ideology?

This is the problem with fascism. Business does not care about the public, nor the health of a society, they only care about the dollar. This is why you should never have business controlling the government, because the best intrest of its citizens are not the core tenant, the almighty dollar is. When you have a government that IS big oil, you have the ability to do what ever you want to the American public in terms of price gouging. There is a reason to keep business and government seperate, and this is a perfect example. The government is made to protect it's citizens, not to give business a blank check.

[Bang]

How can you not even question the amount of profit these companies are making, while the cost is crippling the American public? Are you that blinded by ideology?

This is the problem with fascism. Business does not care about the public, nor the health of a society, they only care about the dollar. This is why you should never have business controlling the government, because the best intrest of its citizens are not the core tenant, the almighty dollar is. When you have a government that IS big oil, you have the ability to do what ever you want to the American public in terms of price gouging. There is a reason to keep business and government seperate, and this is a perfect example. The government is made to protect it's citizens, not to give business a blank check.

:notworthy

[Thiebear]

Wow, The absolute ignorance around here is amazing. Economics 101, read up on elasticity of demand: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elasticity_%28economics%29

Oil and gas and monopolies such as MS, provide products which have a low price elasticity of demand, this means they can drive the prices up and the quantity demanded will not change that much. People dont NEED milk and eggs, but they damn well need gas.

Such conditions allow for easier abuse if not monitored and regulated by the government. The fact that these oil companies are making record profits while the avg citizen is suffering from higher gas prices is disturbing and bears closer scrutiny by the government.

Did you just say people don't need milk and eggs? I'm not going to jump on you because I 'believe' we sort of agree.. Ask yourself this question.. Its hurricane season and we broke all records at Beta... Whats the first thing off the shelves of the grocery store? I'm guessing they could say demand is up.... Children cant go Vegan for long . Thanks for playing though...

[Thiebear]

How can you not even question the amount of profit these companies are making, while the cost is crippling the American public? Are you that blinded by ideology?

This is the problem with fascism. Business does not care about the public, nor the health of a society, they only care about the dollar. This is why you should never have business controlling the government, because the best intrest of its citizens are not the core tenant, the almighty dollar is. When you have a government that IS big oil, you have the ability to do what ever you want to the American public in terms of price gouging. There is a reason to keep business and government seperate, and this is a perfect example. The government is made to protect it's citizens, not to give business a blank check.

O.K. for the 1st time Ever I'm going to say I pretty much agree with Chomerics on our current government and the tendencies it has with oil companies... it hurts, but he is right errr correct.

[MaddogCT]

O.K. for the 1st time Ever I'm going to say I pretty much agree with Chomerics on our current government and the tendencies it has with oil companies... it hurts, but he is right errr correct.

Writing the date down right now.................

:logo:

[Kilmer17]

wahhh wahh wahhh

I just had to buy 2 new computers and they cost 899.00 apiece. The Govt should really step in. Microsoft and Google and showing record profits at my expense.

waaaaaahahhhhhhhh!!!!!

[Thiebear]

wahhh wahh wahhh

I just had to buy 2 new computers and they cost 899.00 apiece. The Govt should really step in. Microsoft and Google and showing record profits at my expense.

waaaaaahahhhhhhhh!!!!!

Microsoft sells software and the xbox etc.. not computers thats Dell/IBM/HP/Alienware.. and except for the last one they are at record lows...

You can buy a new system for 500 bucks now-a-days...

Google doesnt provide you with anything other than a "service" to find other things.. When was the last time you "spent" anything on google?

Thank you for trying, please play again.

[codeorama]

wahhh wahh wahhh

I just had to buy 2 new computers and they cost 899.00 apiece. The Govt should really step in. Microsoft and Google and showing record profits at my expense.

waaaaaahahhhhhhhh!!!!!

Stop surfin so much porn... :paranoid:

[Kilmer17]

Microsoft sells software and the xbox etc.. not computers thats Dell/IBM/HP/Alienware.. and except for the last one they are at record lows...

You can buy a new system for 500 bucks now-a-days...

Google doesnt provide you with anything other than a "service" to find other things.. When was the last time you "spent" anything on google?

Thank you for trying, please play again.

good grief man.

Okay fine.

Microsoft was installed on the computers so I did have to pay them.

But the other thing Im gathering from your post is that I may have had a choice when I "consumed" the product?

hmmmmmm

Interesting..........

[Thiebear]

good grief man.

Okay fine.

Microsoft was installed on the computers so I did have to pay them.

But the other thing Im gathering from your post is that I may have had a choice when I "consumed" the product?

hmmmmmm

Interesting..........

They are luxury items and not a necessity. Go to poor neighborhoods and i doubt you'll find a bunch of Google surfers.

Microsoft was sued for exactly what I would like to happen here.. Forcing retailers to put their product on the systems as opposed to Linux and firefox.

Same with IBM when they tried to own the market.. And Ma Bell...

And now the Oil Companies..

Glad to see we are agreeing now .

[Kilmer17]

They are certainly NOT luxury items. Without them, I wouldnt be able to operate my business.

[Fergasun]

Fascism:

A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

Are you sure that's the type of government and economic system we operate under? I'm pretty sure you mean capitalism.

Also, you completely missed the point of my post... I don't disagree that there may have been price gouging, if there was then punish the gas companies. With all the service stations you'd think there would be more than enough proof that they all conspired together to price gouge.

The point was, maybe it's not so cut and dry, and I provided an example of how I think the system works... but you chose to ignore that example.

If you feel business controls our goverment, the answer isn't to scream about better business, but scream about better government. We get the government that we deserve.

[Bonez3]

Yes, yes we get it.... because Shell, Exxon, 76, Arco, Sheetz, Philips, Sunoco, Chevron or whoever always raise their prices at the same rate there is collusion going on. Much like if Coke and Pepsi both decided to charge $3 for a 20 oz bottle, then they started to charge $4 for a 20 oz bottle.

Let's step through this. In a neighborhood there is a Shell, Exxon and a Citgo all in the same area. The gas trucks bring gas every 4 days. They all get filled up, and one day the Shell owner decides to lower gas by $0.20/gal . Thus, there is a rush of everyone to the Shell station, but in that 1 day it takes out all of his gas supply. Plus, this would cause a half hour wait for consumers. Some people may even feel it's worth it to go to the Exxon and Citgo because they don't want to wait 1/2 hour. Now, for the next 3 days Mr. Shell has no gas, which means he has nothing to draw customers to the convenience store... and he sold his gas for $0.20/gal less so he lost all that money and what did he gain for it? In the meantime Exxon and Citgo get MORE customers because not everyone filled up on the cheaper gas... so people who normally buy gas from Shell go to other stations. They are able to keep their gas station full, and people coming and buying sodas, chips, maps, etc because they have gas to draw people in., thust they make more money over the period.

I don't pretend to know what caused profits, but I do know in some areas Exxon's revenue decreased due to an increase in raw materials. It also should be noted that Exxon stock didn't rise a lot on this announcement, but went down a little.

My wife is an accountant and I've been reading some of her economics textbooks... there are two different quotes from Adam Smith about the type of societies that occur under free markets.

Sympathetic Society

Mercenary Society

I'd argue that those who are upset over the profits of a gas company wish we lived in a more sympathetic society... but those who are "benefitting" from the profits are glad that we live in a mercenary society. I've often wished that we could live in a more sympathetic society, what Adam Smith called as "Optimal" but it seems to me I have to learn how to live in the "Suboptimal" mercenary society.

There is really no flaw in this entire rationale. But, it's only that,rationale.

Attempting to sculpt and identify economic models is a fun game and some people are really good at it. This business has X while consumers do Y with a Z for current trends in the market. Blah, Blah, Blah.

Look- a very small group of men made 10 B in 3 mos and they did so by hoarding and driving up prices in cohoots with other oil distributers.

Let's not make this economics 101 or any other advanced economics for that matter. Let's just take off the rose colored glasses and identify what is really going on. All these scenerios and explanations could have occurred at any time in the past and have NEVER in the history of the world has there been such profit. Why is that?Nothing to do with Bush and the croonies, huh. (And please don't restate another arbitrary demand scenerio, we covered that already)

It's not that difficult.

[Prosperity]

I admit this is getting unsettling, I need to think more about this to actually form an opinion, until then I will probably have to go to the default and let the market handle it, but it is lookiing real suspicious.

[chomerics]

Fascism:

A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

What is the core economic difference between fascism and communism? In a communist form of government, the State runs business and in a fascist form of government, the State is run BY business. Hell, Mousoullini was the leader who coined the term "corporatism".

Are you sure that's the type of government and economic system we operate under? I'm pretty sure you mean capitalism.

No, I mean fascism, especially when it related to the oil industry. If you have read any history books and you have understood some of the core tennants of fascism, you would understand that our government, which is run by big oil, is fascist in its economic form. We are not completely a fascist society, but if you can't recognize the similarities between a economic fascism and our government right now, especially in the energy sector, then I would suggest you read up on it.

Also, you completely missed the point of my post... I don't disagree that there may have been price gouging, if there was then punish the gas companies. With all the service stations you'd think there would be more than enough proof that they all conspired together to price gouge.

Ummm, do you actually think service stations decide what they can and can not charge for gas? No, they have certain profit margins they have to meet, and they pay the price of oil from the big oil companies. In many states, the price a service station can charge is regulated based on THEIR costs. So in essence, it isn't the retailers that are gouging the consumer, but the big oil companies. That is why you see a company making over $10billion dollars profit in a 3 month span.

The point was, maybe it's not so cut and dry, and I provided an example of how I think the system works... but you chose to ignore that example.

No, I chose to ignore your example because it was wrong. You do NOT know how the system works, you proved this much with your previous statement that service stations set the price.

If you feel business controls our goverment, the answer isn't to scream about better business, but scream about better government. We get the government that we deserve.

You're new here, and maybe you haven't been reading all of my posts, but that is exactly what I have been doing for the past year and a half here. You should really read about economic fascism and corporatism, because your post seems to show that you are not really correct in your assumptions.

Here, I'll even start the leg work for you. . .

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&q=economic+fascism+and+corporatism&btnG=Search

[Bang]

good grief man.

Okay fine.

Microsoft was installed on the computers so I did have to pay them.

But the other thing Im gathering from your post is that I may have had a choice when I "consumed" the product?

hmmmmmm

Interesting..........

Buy a Mac, or use Linux. You chose to use computers with Microsoft installed products.

You don't HAVE to use Microsoft to run your business. Wiping it from your system and installing Linux isn't all that difficult to do, and it's functions cross platforms so you can operate with associates who use Microsoft products.

You DO have choices, and they are just as viable and productive as Windows.. unlike, say, trying to run a trucking company with bicycles.

~Bang

[DjTj]

I admit this is getting unsettling, I need to think more about this to actually form an opinion, until then I will probably have to go to the default and let the market handle it, but it is lookiing real suspicious.

Maybe there are times when "letting the market handle it" actually REQUIRES government intervention.

Maybe the rational choice/libertarian model of human behavior sometimes mismeasures actual supply and demand, causing a market failure.

An example ... At the beginning of the 20th century, factory workers were paid enormously low wages and were forced to work in extremely dangerous conditions. However, since they were all competing with each other, the labor supply did not decrease sufficiently to force a market correction. If a single worker quit, that worker would be replaced by someone new who didn't know how bad the conditions were - there was a collective action problem. Those workers formed unions, which were able to represent the collective voice of the workers and allowed an actual decrease in labor supply to respond to the awful conditions. The result was higher pay and better conditions, and a more stable market equilibrium.

In the union case, labor supply was very inelastic, so the market responded very slowly. The only way to overcome that inelasticity was to organize, elect representatives, and take collective action.

In our problem with gas prices, demand is very inelastic, so people are continuing to use too much gas even though the prices are rising dramatically. We should all be cutting back on our own gas usage, but there's little incentive to do so because we have few substitutes, and our individual acts of conservation will only make a tiny dent in the overall demand - we have a collective action problem. The only way to counter this inelasticity will be to organize, elect representatives, and take collective action ... but lo and behold, we already HAVE representatives that we have placed in charge of taking collective action - they are our government!

To solve this problem, I would not advocate price controls, because that is a discrete fix for a continuous problem ... what the government needs to do is to force people to use less gas. Tax breaks for hybrids, cheap public transportation - anything we can do to decrease demand for gas on a large scale. The unions never got anywhere until they went on strike, and we won't get anywhere until we start using less gas.

[wbblakemore]

Look- a very small group of men made 10 B in 3 mos and they did so by hoarding and driving up prices in cohoots with other oil distributers.

Let's not make this economics 101 or any other advanced economics for that matter. Let's just take off the rose colored glasses and identify what is really going on. All these scenerios and explanations could have occurred at any time in the past and have NEVER in the history of the world has there been such profit. Why is that?Nothing to do with Bush and the croonies, huh. (And please don't restate another arbitrary demand scenerio, we covered that already)

It's not that difficult.

Do you have any evidence of hoarding or price collusion, or is this just a case of "they made a lot of money when prices went up, so they must be evil"?

If hoarding occured, or even price fixing, then I'd say you've got a valid point, and those responsible should prosecuted for their illegal activities. But no responsible person has publically claimed any evidence of that. If, however, your objection is only on the basis of "they earned a lot of money, they must be crooked", do you also advocate a windfall profits tax against Google, whose quarterly earnings jumped 1000%, not just a measly 75%?

[Bang]

Do you have any evidence of hoarding or price collusion, or is this just a case of "they made a lot of money when prices went up, so they must be evil"?

If hoarding occured, or even price fixing, then I'd say you've got a valid point, and those responsible should prosecuted for their illegal activities. But no responsible person has publically claimed any evidence of that. If, however, your objection is only on the basis of "they earned a lot of money, they must be crooked", do you also advocate a windfall profits tax against Google, whose quarterly earnings jumped 1000%, not just a measly 75%?

If you and I are in an elevator and I fart, do you need to hear me do it to realize something stinks, and you weren't the one responsible? Will you stand there in my stench and claim you don't smell anything, just because you haven't got any evidence that I farted?

Let's say you came home and found your wife naked in bed with your neighbor, but all they were doing was talking. Would you join in the conversation because you didn't actually see them having sex?

If your wife gave birth to a baby that looked exactly like your neighbor nine months later, do you need to see tape of her sleeping around to make you think something might be wrong?

If I go to your house and scream "FIRE!" in the middle of the night, then rob your place while you're outside waiting for the fire department, do you need proof that I did it, even though i went out the back door and you didn't see me?

At what point do you begin to feel suspicious?

You honestly don't feel that you have been taken advantage of by corporate greed? You honestly don't feel your trust has been abused? At what point do you feel these things? When do you start to realize that you've been screwed? When they stand up and say so? When the government tells you? Don't hold your breath.

By the way,, Google didn't make their enormous profit by suddenly jacking up it's price on the consumer. It's free. And if I don't like it, I can use Yahoo, or Lycos, or a hundred other search engines.

If I don't like Exxon,, I can go across the street to Shell,, and pay the same price, or down the road to Sunoco,, and pay the same price... etc. etc. etc.

Or I can walk.

It's a ridiculous comparison.

~Bang

[wbblakemore]

If you and I are in an elevator and I fart, do you need to hear me do it to realize something stinks, and you weren't the one responsible? Will you stand there in my stench and claim you don't smell anything, just because you haven't got any evidence that I farted?

Let's say you came home and found your wife naked in bed with your neighbor, but all they were doing was talking. Would you join in the conversation because you didn't actually see them having sex?

If your wife gave birth to a baby that looked exactly like your neighbor nine months later, do you need to see tape of her sleeping around to make you think something might be wrong?

If I go to your house and scream "FIRE!" in the middle of the night, then rob your place while you're outside waiting for the fire department, do you need proof that I did it, even though i went out the back door and you didn't see me?

At what point do you begin to feel suspicious?

You honestly don't feel that you have been taken advantage of by corporate greed? You honestly don't feel your trust has been abused? At what point do you feel these things? When do you start to realize that you've been screwed? When they stand up and say so? When the government tells you? Don't hold your breath.

By the way,, Google didn't make their enormous profit by suddenly jacking up it's price on the consumer. It's free. And if I don't like it, I can use Yahoo, or Lycos, or a hundred other search engines.

If I don't like Exxon,, I can go across the street to Shell,, and pay the same price, or down the road to Sunoco,, and pay the same price... etc. etc. etc.

Or I can walk.

It's a ridiculous comparison.

~Bang

Interesting world you live in, where suspicions are proof and real proof is irrelevant. Are you sure you're not a closet Bush supporter? He used the same argument about WMD in Iraq.

[Bonez3]

Do you have any evidence of hoarding or price collusion, or is this just a case of "they made a lot of money when prices went up, so they must be evil"?

If hoarding occured, or even price fixing, then I'd say you've got a valid point, and those responsible should prosecuted for their illegal activities. But no responsible person has publically claimed any evidence of that. If, however, your objection is only on the basis of "they earned a lot of money, they must be crooked", do you also advocate a windfall profits tax against Google, whose quarterly earnings jumped 1000%, not just a measly 75%?

With all do respect- there has been a recent "shortage" of responsible individuals in the market. And, while "demand" is high for truth and justice, there seems to be a "crisis" underway. .

I also have to further this bysaying I laughed heartily at your phrase "But, no resposible person has publically calimed any evidence...". Man, that's good stuff. :laugh:

Finally, for years and years google did not show any profit. In my opinion, this boom was inevitable. They provide a great service and they just couldn't get profits up for a long time

[Bonez3]

Blake- Answer Bang's question.

When do tou begin to get suspicious? Are you claiming that you aren't the least bit concerned something might be rotten here. Because if you are, than I wont discuss another word with you. For you truly would be blind.