Arrington or Holdman

[WallyG3]

Arrington is the most overrated player in the NFL. He is never going to amount to anything. Holdman is part of a WINNING defense.

I wonder if you honestly believe that, or if you're just taking advantage of your one shot to bag on Lavar without getting banned for trolling?

I trust the coaches judgement, but I KNOW what an impact player Lavar is. He make plays. period.

[flexxskins]

Ok as brief as I can let me expound on this subject. Warrick Holdman is playing great football. LaVar and Greg Williams will attest to this fact. Holdman plays his role well and the defense as a whole gets the job done. With that being said, I must proclaim to the Redskins defensive staff and fans that in order to win some games down the stretch the DEFENSE will have to force turnovers, and score touchdowns! The redskins are a blitz happy bunch of defenders with great role players and superstars in skill positions like corner , outside linebacker, and safety. But in order to get to that next level we must get a consistant pass rush against oppsoing QBs. LaVar is a playmaker, and he has proven that he can single handedly win games. We have to increase his playing time once he is fully recovered in order to give us a better chance of winning games when the offense struggles against good defensive teams. Marcus Washington blitzes with good preassure but is often the only consistant rusher we have. We cannot continue to zone blitz corners and expect not to get beat on big plays by offensive powerhouses like Kansas City, Philly, and now the NY Giants. Playmakers win games ! Look how Lawrence Taylor wreeked havoc on us in the 80's. He was not very disciplined as a linebacker ( Bill Parcels : qutoe), but he made plays that turned games around. Arrington is this type of player and when you have him you utilize him... If we play Arrington more and still get Holdman on the field our defense will not only be consistant on stopping opponents, but also compelled to force opponents turnovers and score some points..

Brief? :doh: Seriously though, break this puppy up into some paragraphs. You have one big one and it really is a pain to read. I still have'nt read it. I say this from experience.

[redskins55]

Greg Williams is starting to believe his own hype:doh: I liked him better with a chip on his shoulder. He is sitting fat and happy now. Our defense let up today when it counted we were sitting on a lead and Seattle marched down the field twice while Sean and Lavar were on the bench:doh: If the kick doesn't hit the up right the whole board is singing a different tune.

But it did hit the upright and we are 3-0

Well put my friend......... The man who couldnt muster a winning season in Buffalo is now tooting his own horn because the defense is good and consistant here in Washington. Now tell me this... Is anyone ready for the skins defense to become a "GREAT" Defense?????

When was the last time we scored on defense? When was the last time we forced a turnover? When was the first time we had a pass rush without blitzing??? Our defense is good and consistant enough to keep us in games, but not great enough to win games for us like the Baltimore crew of 2000'... hell like the Redskin crew of 90'-91'. Its time for GW to deflate his ego for a while and get players in there who will make plays!!

Gibbs took a chance on the offensive side by playing Brunell.. now its time for GW to do the same and start Arrington on defense!

oh and Banks, I would respond to your post but after viewing your previous threads... ie: (redskins worst 3-0 team ever) ..I've decided its not worth my time. Keep drinking the hatoraide :chug:

[GhostRider]

I believe the extention was given in Gibbs first year back.

Lavar recieved a contract extension in December of 2003 and Gibbs returned in January of 2004.

[jrockster21]

but but but, but Lavar would of had 20 tackles this game, 3 ints, 1 forced fumble and a touchdown pass.

Come on man, this is a serious discussion. Why do you have to go and throw out that lame bulls**t in the middle of a legitamate conversation? We're seriously trying to discuss the differences between the two linebackers.

And obviously, LA would have thrown at least 3 touchdown passes, GOSH!

[flexxskins]

Come on man, this is a serious discussion. Why do you have to go and throw out that lame bulls**t in the middle of a legitamate conversation? We're seriously trying to discuss the differences between the two linebackers.

And obviously, LA would have thrown at least 3 touchdown passes, GOSH!

:laugh:

[MeNoRevs]

Come on man, this is a serious discussion. Why do you have to go and throw out that lame bulls**t in the middle of a legitamate conversation? We're seriously trying to discuss the differences between the two linebackers.

And obviously, LA would have thrown at least 3 touchdown passes, GOSH!

I threw my lame BS at the beginning after I said my serious post.

and my bad, I should of known he would of been up there with the Mannings

[thewagen]

i havnt heard Holdmans name mentiond much during any game

5 tackles and 2 solo

now yall can say what you want but i know arrington would have done alot better then that in the coarse of the 1st 3 games

I dunno...I am beginning to wonder if a "LaVar Watch" should be issued in a few weeks....he must be so far in the doghouse that even his waterbowl is a mile away... I can't understand unless it really is retribution by the staff for LaVar putting them through the contract mess. As well, is LaVar that dumb that he can't grasp what GWilliams wants? The guy has been a pro bowler, and I can remember him being a disciplined player under Marty, so I don't want to hear any GD more about him free lancing too much. How many turnovers does this defense have, sans LaVar? Look, Holdman may be playing steady, but I see no impact defense from this team yet. The DLine alone puts up Z-E-R-O pressure, and when we blitzed yesterday, only ONCE did they get through. To me, and this is MY OPINION, a free lancing but violent LaVar is much better at creating havoc than a disciplined but aggressive Holdman.

I LOVE that we are 3-0, but eventually these lack of turnovers is gonna catch up. With Denver and KC on the road, we're gonna see how this plays out. The "D" MUST make and create some TOs, and if LaVar isn't the answer, I'd be willing to bet at least 20 other NFL teams would pay whatever the price to see if LaVar's still healthy.

3-0 and loving it!

Fred S.

[ntotoro]

i havnt heard Holdmans name mentiond much during any game 5 tackles and 2 solo now yall can say what you want but i know arrington would have done alot better then that in the coarse of the 1st 3 games

If one OLB has more than five tackles in a game, it means the line isn't doing its job.

[Aluadan]

After rewatching the game and focusing on how Holdman did throughout, I can't see how he keeps his job after this week. The only time he was involved in any play was when he either bit hard on play action, allowing his reciever to run right by him for a quick 10 yard hookup. Another occasion on one of Alexander's few long runs, he over persue's, get's out of position allowing Alexander to cut back inside for a nice chunk of yardage. He also happen to be the blizter on the Seahawks game tieing touchdown from the strongside, granted I don't know if he was or was not suppose to bump the reciever on his way in but he did not, nor did he get anywhere near the QB and it was thrown to the man he would have covered for a TD.

That being said, I think in the upcoming games people are actually going to watch Holdman himself more (that is if he still is the starter) and just see how little this guy does during a game. Yes, the defense as a whole is playing well but understand completely, it has nothing to do with what Holdman is doing.

If anyone bothered to tape/tivo it, feel free to watch the defense and give an honest opinion of how he performed. I can't imagine anyone could see it any other way.

[ntotoro]

what really makes me sick is how the same so called skin fans here can turn on LA like you are, knowing damn well he has busted his ass for this team back when he had no help and now that he is hurt and not playing or GW is not letting him play, you turn on him.

Personally, I'm a fan of the Washington Redskins and watch the team play, not Warrick Holdman or LaVar Arrington.

People have been debating LaVar's athleticism versus player ability long before this weekend, so get off the high horse already.

[ntotoro]

I believe the extention was given in Gibbs first year back.

It was given before the end of calendar year 2003, before Joe Gibbs was hired.

[G-Prime]

Talent is talent guys, Lavar is the more talented and should be in there if healthy. Just because we're getting by with Holdman doesn't make it ok. We need a big playmaker and Lavar fits the bill. But it's GW's defence and I trust him to get the job done, I just think the job could be done better with Lavar.

[number twenty-eight]

This is a tough spot because its hard to argue success. His benching does seem political, or disciplinary, because there's absolutely no comparison between their abilities. Its frustrating because he's a great ambassador for the team, his contract squabble notwithstanding.

Let's stop the overrated nonsense. LaVar is a man among boys out there. I remember in last year's preseason, in Williams' system, he knocked out quarterbacks in consecutive weeks. Brad Johnson and I think Maddox for the Steelers.

[Epistopheles]

Did I miss something, or was LaVar not in a SINGLE play yesterday?

Plus, the linebackers as whole did not play up to their own standard in the second half, so I feel like now would be the perfect time to reinsert him into the starting lineup, before two tough games on the road where he could create some much-needed intensity and...

TURNOVERS!

[Aluadan]

Well, he was supposedly in 2 plays but for the life of me, I couldn't spot them.

[Gamebreaker]

I don't care how hyped up Lavar is, or how much he is paid. If he can't be in position, learn the defense, and stop complaining about "his role" on a defense that is ranked very high, then Warrick Holdman every time.

I can understand if a player complains about his role when the team or unit is doing badly. Yet we're 3-0 and the defense is ranked either 1st or 2nd in the league, just shut your damn mouth and read the playbook Lavar.

[gridironmike]

Besides Arrington isnt happy here.

Would you be happy if you were a 3 time Pro Bowler relegated to the bench?

[Burgold]

Clinton looked happy after a miserable game in Dallas when he gave Gibbs a Gatorade bath. Lavar needs to stop griping publicly and needs to be a team versus a me player. If he refuses to be on special teams that alone is a reason for disciplinary action. If the rumor is true that he was planning to boycott meetings that too indicates that he thinks he is bigger than the team. I'm happy with accountability. Prove to us you can do it on the practice field the way we need it done. Prove to us you can do it on teams. Prove it. Just cause you got a name doesn't mean you're in the game.

[DCMONEY]

Lavar not being able to fit in this scheme is some bull. Lavar has reached the pro bowl in 3 different schemes. Ray Rhodes, Kurt Schottheimer and Marvin Lewis schemes, so I don't think he's not smart enough to adapt. Lavar is a difference maker. I always wanted to see Lavar play the Weakside and be able to come off the edge. He has the speed to get the sack or force the QB into an early throw witch translates into interceptions. Lavar has tremendous speed for a guy his size. This thing is personal, I don't care what they say. Its some internal stuff going on. Its gonna come to a head, trust me.

[DCMONEY]

Clinton looked happy after a miserable game in Dallas when he gave Gibbs a Gatorade bath. Lavar needs to stop griping publicly and needs to be a team versus a me player. If he refuses to be on special teams that alone is a reason for disciplinary action. If the rumor is true that he was planning to boycott meetings that too indicates that he thinks he is bigger than the team. I'm happy with accountability. Prove to us you can do it on the practice field the way we need it done. Prove to us you can do it on teams. Prove it. Just cause you got a name doesn't mean you're in the game.

Asking Lavar to play special teams is stupid to me unless we had a rash of injuries. Plus the team is contradicting itself if they (Skins Staff) say Lavar isn't funnly healed then why put him on Special teams? They're wide open takinf vicious hits and blocks on Special teams. This is another way for the Skins organaization to faze someone out before they get rid of him. The man says he's ready and wants to play. He's better than Holdman period. I don't care what the Skins rank is, play your best players. This is ridiculous.

[Burgold]

Play your best players versus playing the players who play the best. That's the question. I like the fact that Ramsey got benched for three turnovers in three series. I like that fact that Antonio Brown's poor preseason plus game fumbles led to his release. I like the fact that they looked at Groom's production and in spite of a win decided he was not up to par. Even though I personally rooted and wanted all these guys to excel. Lavar is no different. Williams didn't start Taylor or Rogers just because they were first rounders. They had to prove it. With Williams, Arrington has to prove it too. Maybe he has to prove it in practice, maybe they want to see him commit to lane discipline in special teams. I think you are right that it does weaken the team not to have the best athletes out there, but it makes the team better because they know their actions and their play counts.

[LegionOfDoom]

Somebody needs to discuss what is going on...Lavar is a franchise player with a franchise pricetag. We as the fans deserve to know what is exactly going with probably one the most popular Redskin. Is it the knee..special teams...what. I'm tired of the speculation.

[kb7]

i want arrington in there. he needs to learn the playbook, stop freelancing, and do his best to get back on that field because he is way better than holdman or clemons will ever be. he's a playmaker, and he can help in the turnover department. plus, with his contract, it's not good for him to be benched with all that money.

How in the world do we know that Lavar is freelancing. HE DOESN'T PLAY!!!! Greg Williams and that linebackers coach think that there system is bigger than the players, and that is where they are very wrong. Truthfully we should have lost that game, and why, because of defensive missed assignments. Now no one has said anything about Marvcus Washington and his missed assingments, and tackles!! Warrick Holdman can't touch Lavar, but this is how the Skins are going to be, then it will come back to burn them in the butt soon. I like being 3-0 but you can honestly say that we are not far from being 0-3.

We have NO pass rush, no one is putting any pressure on the QB, but the A-hole coaches don't want to put one of our best players in the game because they think it is all about them. Did anyone notice that Sean Taylor was out of the game in the 4th Quarter also. You want to know why? Another coaches decison. Joe Gibbs better wake his Azz up, and take control of this team before it's too late!!!!!!!

[thewagen]

Well put my friend......... The man who couldnt muster a winning season in Buffalo is now tooting his own horn because the defense is good and consistant here in Washington. Now tell me this... Is anyone ready for the skins defense to become a "GREAT" Defense?????

When was the last time we scored on defense? When was the last time we forced a turnover? When was the first time we had a pass rush without blitzing??? Our defense is good and consistant enough to keep us in games, but not great enough to win games for us like the Baltimore crew of 2000'... hell like the Redskin crew of 90'-91'. Its time for GW to deflate his ego for a while and get players in there who will make plays!!

Gibbs took a chance on the offensive side by playing Brunell.. now its time for GW to do the same and start Arrington on defense!

oh and Banks, I would respond to your post but after viewing your previous threads... ie: (redskins worst 3-0 team ever) ..I've decided its not worth my time. Keep drinking the hatoraide :chug:

Here's what I have read time and time again. During GWilliams' stint as HC in Buffalo, their defense constantly ranked in the top five in defense, yet near the BOTTOM of the NFL in turnovers...Go Figure. I myself cannot explain that. COuld be an abberation, but for three years? I dunno.

Whatever the reason with LaVar, as usual, we won't know the truth(?) until LaVar leaves, and even then I suspect we may not know. In a way, very sad to see him standing on the sidelines, somewhat removed from the game. His fault? Perhaps, but sad just the same. As intense a person that he was, in his press statements and in his presence on the field, it looks so subdued from just a couple years ago. I guess injuries do that, huh?

Yes, the 'Skins are 3-0 :applause: and we need to enjoy it! But to me, I can't be bragging about a team that averages a win by 2 points. We rarely get turnovers or sacks anymore, and to play with the upcoming BIG Boys like KC, Philly, the GiNats(????), the RAYDUHS and the Chargers, the 'Skins defense needs to wreak some havoc. And quite frankly, I'm very concerned. Let's see what Denver brings. That could be a telling game. Until then, I'll trust in the coaches, and will hope to see LaVar get back on the field and to see the defense get more nasty.

3-0 by any other name would still smell so sweet...

Fred S.