nneece Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Not to be Chicken Little, but after perusing this board for sometime and reviewing the Skins play I have to draw a conclusion. This is what led me to this post: for starters, listening to a broadcaster on Sirius NFL network espouse pretty much the same opinion of the Redskins season that I hear verbatim (the Skins have some tools, but they don't have the whole story. They will struggle on offense and will have a losing record). I'm used to this, I don't put a lot of stock into it but after you hear it again and again from a number of sources (Riggo, for instance) it begins to wear you down. I justify this to myself by saying that until the Redskins show something on the field and surprise everyone by beating a team as an underdog this will continue to be the opinion of the media. But this is what made the light bulb go off for me: The Giants beat the Panther's tonight 27- 21. I know you can't put a lot of stock in preseason games and that a particular team is not going to put the same effort in every week of preseason, but you have to follow something to form the basis of an opinion. Here's a team that we did not beat in the preseason being beat by one of our division rivals that if the Redskins are to go anywhere this year need to beat or at least split with. I thought the Giants would be slightly better then last season but I see I'm going to have to rethink this. Hasselbeck, by the way, mostly looked great. Here we, the Redskins are, unable to beat the Bungles in the preseason. I think this sentiment is shared by Joe Gibbs, the reason for his anger realizing that we are somewhat close to giving a full performance (with the notable exception being the lack of Portis) and still coming up short (and, of course, the turnovers which lead to this situation). As I prepare to watch the Redskins Bungles game in rebroadcast on NFL network (I wrote this on Saturday night when the message board was down), I have to ask: do too many fans on Extremeskins have their bruin (rose) colored glasses on? If so, aren't we setting ourselves up for another season of heartbreak? I want to be optimistic about my team, but they need to show me something to be optimistic about. Portis, Jansen, Arrington, Gregg Williams, Gibbs, an improved Brunell for example all sound good on paper but what does it translate to on the field? I think we will be making progress if we claw our way to 8-8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 I stopped reading at the Giants-Panthers comment. I commented to my wife when I saw the replay of that game last night that the Giants line was getting manhandled by the Panthers starting D-line, whereas ours stoned them. Obviously, we're ironing out our passing game as we go, but this does not bother me in the least. I think when it's all said and done that Ramsey can be relied upon to avoid bad mistakes for us than can Eli Manning. I base that upon Ramsey's career TD-INT ratio which is in the black. We're going to sneak up on a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 To me it is like opening day of Baseball. No matter who your team is in baseball everything feels that on that day anything can happen, that unlike other sports you can not predict anything because of how long the season is. It is a hope that a few breaks could go your way and you can find yourself in a race of some sort. I will say about the skins I used to be the fan that said we will go 12-4 every year and make the playoffs, but it has taking over 12 years of misery to realize that maybe we do think we are better then we are now. I remember the 80's and early 90's very much and dream it will happen again, but understand I am not jumping to conclusions now like I did in the past, and see the team as what they are and that is a large ? The one thing that gives us hope though are teams like the Chargers and Panthers, in the NFL now you can come from no where and surprise, and we just might be that team this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Dog Night Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 First of all, to your question of "Is ExtremeSkins homerific"; you are attributing one particular sentiment to an entire board consisting of tens of thousands of members. Some are, some aren't. But so what if they are? This a REDSKINS board for Pete's sake. Fans are always hoping for the best for their team. What do you expect? But, there's plenty of doom and gloom to go with the homerism. Do you just choose not to look at that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Giants - Panthers? :doh: you had me going there for a sec... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 I think what most object to here is the 'anti-Redskin' slant of the national media. Even the best players here get no respect from the national press, especially Clayton, Peter King, etc. Portis is described as a 'system' back. Shawn Springs is described as 'injury prone'. Cornelius Griffin is credited with having a 'career year' in 2005. Even Carlos Rogers, whom was described as the best DB a couple of months before the draft, was then considered 'the third corner in this draft' after the Skins took him :laugh: Recent NFL history shows that NOBODY knows exactly how a team is going to do. The 1999 Rams were coming off a 5-11 season and lost their starting quarterback in training camp. The 2000 Ravens couldn't score points and changed quarterbacks half way through the season. The 2001 Patriots and 2003 Panthers both came out of nowhere to appear in the Super Bowl. Most thought Bellichick was close to being fired after finishing 5-11 in 2000 in New England. So, how can these people be so sure that Gibbs and the 2005 Redskins are going to be a last place team in the East? The same weaknesses we see in the current Giants (offensive and defensive lines, young qb) and the Cowboys (lots of turnover, older players) were attributed to past Redskins teams and given as reasons why they underwhelmed. Ironically, both the Giants and Cowboys are picked to finish ahead of the Redskins despite these characteristics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 This site is very "homerific" and some of the expectations are insane. But it's a fan site so you shouldn't be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiLfan Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 This site is very "homerific" and some of the expectations are insane. But it's a fan site so you shouldn't be surprised. exactly...you can't expect 100% objectivity from a fan site. but there are plenty of dissenting opinions around here that don't necessarily predict milk and honey for 2005 in redskin land. i was a bit concerned upon hearing that this site was becoming official/under redskins.com....that freedom of dissenting opinion would be jeopardized...but after observing things over the past couple weeks, i don't think that will happen. incidentally, i'm not one who thinks it will be a great year for us....7-9 (8-8 at best). i could be wrong (actually, i hope i am)...but while i see maybe some modest improvements happening on offense this year, i think a tougher schedule and maybe the defense not performing at quite the same unexpected level as last year will result in yet another no-playoff year. But if Gibbs keeps his stick-to-it-iveness, maybe we'll start to see some real improvements come 2006...? :point2sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sith lord Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 To me it is like opening day of Baseball. No matter who your team is in baseball everything feels that on that day anything can happen, that unlike other sports you can not predict anything because of how long the season is. It is a hope that a few breaks could go your way and you can find yourself in a race of some sort. Except if you're the Royals or Devil Rays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 During the Preseason, the best thing to watch for is the overall feel of the game. What did it look like the Skins were trying to do the whole game. The Panters game was alot of short, intermediate stuff in the passing game with the option of deep if it opened up. I would say that Coach spent alot of that game working on what Coach Musgrave had brought to the team. The Bengals game was more of the deep attack with more of what Coach Gibbs likes in his offensive passing game. Rollouts, playaction, deep to intermediate routes, etc. Coach wanted to see a bit more aggressive play out of the offense when its in attack mode. All of this is coupled with the fact that he is a running Coach. Coach is being very specific in what he is working on during games IMHO and we have not seen him unleash his new attack by any means. The gameplan for the season is basically being worked out during the preseason (as it is with every team) its just that fans get so eager for Football that they watch most preseason stuff with the same glasses that they watch the regular season with. A coach, however, does not do that. He wants to work on things that are not solid yet during these games. Let the players get a feel for how its supposed to work or at least get film to coach the players up. As for the homerism part of the site. You bet. Every other team sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Honestly I think that for the most part the board does tend to look at things a bit too much on the "glass half full" side of things. With that said I have to be honest and say that I have more hope for this season than I've had for a while ...not counting the immediate post return of Gibbs. I haven't had a chance to watch the whole game yet, but what I did see of it gave me a lot of hope for our offense and hence our season. Yes, P-Ram did throw the picks. However, he can be coached out of that to a degree. What gave me real hope was that we regularly had guys open and with a good bit of separation in some cases. I haven't seen that on our team in a long time. In addition to the boneheaded plays, I saw Ramsey (at times) make some brilliant plays-the long gainer to Patton (before the endzone int. I think) where he threaded the needle between two defenders deep down the field was excellent. Ditto that for the deep right sideline route where Patton dragged his back foot to stay inbounds. Finally, the play where Moss lost the ball in the lights was another excellent play by Ramsey. He had the right receiver and put the ball in just the right spot. It would have been six if Moss had caught it. At this point, PRam is getting accustomed to his WRs and vice versa. Furthermore, Gibbs is passing the ball a lot more than he usually would during a regular season game in an effort to get the timing fixed. When the regular season starts we'll see a lot more of the running game which has also looked a lot better than last season. Trust me, adding CP and game planning into the mix will make a huge difference in how this offense looks come Sept. 11. All of this leads me to believe that this team is going to make some noise this season. All the offense needs to do is get 20-22 points per game and with our defense (still looking solid) we should win 10 games. So, to return to the original point, by and large we are a "homerish" board. However this offseason I see the potential for that view to finally be legitimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjKam1 Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 You have a point to a certain degree. What you really need to look at is the first half. You will never see some of the players on the field that are in during the 4th quarter. I'm not sure what the scores were at halftime but that might be a better indication of how the games might have panned out if they were played to it's entirety. But you also want to see what the coaches are trying too get out of the players, and how they are trying to see improvement. Don't take too much into the pre-season games as far as a win or loss goes, more as a comparison to what a player might look like in a couple of weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 I thought really controversial threads only existed in Tailgate. I was wrong..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LWC Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Regarding the whole pre-season win or loss scenario. I've got one word for you to put that in perspective. OSAKA! I could care less about the end result. We should keep an eye on: Injuries - remaining healthy is the most important part of the preseason. You can't win any games in the regular NFL season during this time of year, but you sure can lose some. Ask the Falcons about that. Ask the Bears about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Prime Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Preseason wins and lose records mean nothing.. In 92 our last superbowl year, that year we went 0-4 in preseason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiLfan Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Preseason wins and lose records mean nothing.. In 92 our last superbowl year, that year we went 0-4 in preseason... it was '91...and we went 1-3 the '82 team (Gibbs, Part I's second year) was 0-4 in preseason and won the superbowl. but you're right, you can hardly base reg season predictions on preseason records alone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synergist Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Well, I have to say I'm skeptical also. However, If there is one saving grace is that Gibbs does NOT show a lot in preseason, He never has and never will. We really won't know what the offense is capable of until Sept 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiLfan Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Well, I have to say I'm skeptical also. However, If there is one saving grace is that Gibbs does NOT show a lot in preseason, He never has and never will. We really won't know what the offense is capable of until Sept 11. sounds like a cut-n-paste from last year. we supposedly didn't show jack last year in preseason, so i was waiting for this sudden turn around to respectibilty...which i'm still waiting for. maybe things will be different this year...but based off of 2004, i'll believe it when i see it (and no, i'm not banking on Brunell's sudden 'rejuvination' against a bunch of practice-squaders as a light at the end of the tunnel :laugh: :doh: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synergist Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 sounds like a cut-n-paste from last year.we supposedly didn't show jack last year in preseason, so i was waiting for this sudden turn around to respectibilty...which i'm still waiting for. maybe things will be different this year...but based off of 2004, i'll believe it when i see it (and no, i'm not banking on Brunell's sudden 'rejuvination' against a bunch of practice-squaders as a light at the end of the tunnel :laugh: :doh: ) Yea your right, It does sound like the exact same thing I said last year about this time.. Then after the atlanta game I was feeling good once again... Here we go again I gather... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 I'm usually the cautious one.... I predicted 8-8 for Marty's first season. I had ZERO expectations for coach Spurrier, since I never really followed him much in college and I've always been skeptical of college coaches making the jump. I actually had ZERO expectations for Gibbs last year as well. Anybody who understands coaching could tell you the first year you inherit a team, generally speaking, you're installing a system and "seeing what you've got"... and measuring "what you've got against others to see what you NEED". Unfortunately, a few cinderella teams later, and now everyone things the Redskins deserve to turn the franchise around in any given year. With all that being said, from what I've seen this year and heard from quotes.... I expect a 9-7 or 10-6 and bordering on the playoffs. I think we'll be close... but if you read between the lines... even the players understand they're about a year away from making some noise. But expect some positive things this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FBChick Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 I'm usually the cautious one.... I predicted 8-8 for Marty's first season. I had ZERO expectations for coach Spurrier, since I never really followed him much in college and I've always been skeptical of college coaches making the jump.I actually had ZERO expectations for Gibbs last year as well. Anybody who understands coaching could tell you the first year you inherit a team, generally speaking, you're installing a system and "seeing what you've got"... and measuring "what you've got against others to see what you NEED". Unfortunately, a few cinderella teams later, and now everyone things the Redskins deserve to turn the franchise around in any given year. With all that being said, from what I've seen this year and heard from quotes.... I expect a 9-7 or 10-6 and bordering on the playoffs. I think we'll be close... but if you read between the lines... even the players understand they're about a year away from making some noise. But expect some positive things this year. Ditto what he said! Honestly, this is a fan board and it's preseason so yes, I'm going to be a true fan, stay a bit on the optimistic side and pray for good things to come! If that makes me a homer, then fine! I call it be a true fan. Realism is for the coaches to deal with. But as others have said, last year the preseason games looked horrible from start to finish, yet we managed to win more then we lost. But then came regular season and things just went down hill. What I'm seeing more of this year, is Gibbs using the preseason for what it's meant for, working on the things that need to be improved, not so much worrying about the score board. The deep ball - that entire first half, when we threw the ball, it was almost always going deep. No screens, no dump offs.. just deep ball after deep ball. We threw more then we ran, even though we were looking pretty impressive on the ground.. not normally Gibbs style (or any coaches for that matter). On defense - Williams left the starting group in there just long enough to know it was still in it's rare form and then began pulling them out. By the time Rogers got burned for the first TD, over half our starters were gone. By the seconf half, Williams was deep into the deep roster checking guys out. Does this mean we'll go 14-2 this season? No it doesn't, but it also doesn't mean we go 2-14 either. But I will enjoy the improvements each week, knowing that this DOES mean the team is heading in the right direction, and keep the fingers crossed that it's at least good enough to over .500 this year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Anyone who saw the Panthers game against the Giants wouldn't be too worried about how we match up. We were able to move the ball and run the ball and even stop the Panthers here and there. The Panthers did anything they wanted to the Giants on offense and only mistakes by the Panthers allowed that game to be close. Carolina had four turnovers I think, with a couple of unforced by Delhomme. They moved the ball, held the Giants except for one big batch of missed tackles and lost. We had four turnovers against the Panthers and we lost. It happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riggins44 Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 I am very much a homer and proud of it! The Redskins have been my team for years. In all my years watching the Redskins, never have I started a season feeling we were a .500 team or worse. I always have an optimistic outlook on the upcoming season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 sorry for being slightly off point in my first response here. I agree wholeheartedly with UTAH in regards to the use of the preseason by a veteran coach. Gibbs is not going into each game with a gameplan for defeating that specific team. He is looking to evaluate his players and add in different wrinkles, testing what works and which players have chemistry with each other. I refuse to see panic in a team that lost a preseason game 24-17 with its best player on the shelf due to an injury. A game by the way in which the team did produce several big plays over 20 yards, the principal failing of last year's squad. The biggest positive coming out of the preseason is the fact that this offensive line has come together and has gotten better each time out starting from the Ravens scrimmage and through the 2 preseason games. The Redskins offensive and defensive lines are solid. The team has good talent at the skill positions. It all comes down to Ramsey and how consistent he proves to be. If he has a good season, not a great season but merely a solid season, the Redskins should be right there in the battle for a playoff spot. If other teams suffer the kinds of key injuries we had last year, the Skins could be more of a true contender than anyone currently believes it can be. Remember that 6-10 team in 2004 was playing without perhaps its best lineman in Jansen, it's best defensive playmaker in Arrington, and its best defensive end in Phillip Daniels. How many teams that made the playoffs (outside of New England) suffered those kinds of injuries? The key to the playoffs in a 16 game season is HEALTH. Teams that stay healthy tend to do well. Look at the Bears. They hoped to make a move with Rex Grossman at qb and their fan site was already talking about whooping up on the Redskins in the opener, and now I wager you are seeing a lot of Bears fans crying in their beer due to Grossman's loss to injury. That one injury could cost the Bears 3-4 wins in 2005 depending upon how ready to play Chad Hutchinson is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[[ghost]] Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 I stopped reading at the Giants-Panthers comment. me as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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