Andy Reid better than Gibbs?

[bosshog]

I am here to state unequivocally that Andy Reid is better than Joe Gibbs.....at eating Philly cheese steak sandwiches.

[larry29]

To even compare any coach in the nfl today to gibbs, other that parcells, is stupid. Gibbs and Parcells are the top of the class, along with billichickenfilletwithmustardandmayonaissetomycreditcardplease

[skinstzar]

Ried=Good

Gibbs=HOF, 3 rings and often mentioned with the likes of Shula, Lombardi, Parcells and the true greats.

I personally don't even think that Andy Ried is the best coach on the Eagles staff. Jim Johnson is a great great defensive mind. He has BF'ed the skins for a long long time. Why that guy never took a HC job is beyond me. He has done so much with so little at times.

[hercules]

Andy is a fine coach, I'll admit, but he's got to lose about 190 pounds if he wants to live as long as Joe has.

Oh yeah, winning a few real championships would also help in terms of comparing the greatness of the two.

If I were an Eagles fan I'd be saying "Dammit Andy, lay off those cheesesteaks already, will ya?" You keel over and we might end up with Rich Kotite or Mike McCormack all over again.

Anyway: :eaglesuck

[Dirk Diggler]

Both men serve in the same capacity and have absolute power so it's an entirely valid comparison. However, how much of Gibbs's success from yesteryear applies to today and in the future? I don't think the game has changed enough to discount much if any of his past successes when projecting the caliber of coach he is today. So the vast majority of criteria will be determined based on his 1st go around since his 2nd term only comprises of 2 offseasons and 1 regular season.

Another point to consider: the Eagles have been so consistently good that it's almost scary. Exactly how much of that is Andy Reid's doing is a debate in and of itself. When he came on in 1999, he was just a coach and did not have the absolute power he has now. That power was handed to him in 2001.

IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER...

1) Player Acquistion

The fact is, the 2 most important people responsible for the success of the Eagles outside of Reid are Jim Johnson and Don McNabb. Reid didn't have finally say in 1999 so you really can't give him the credit for those additions. However, he's shown himself to be pretty damn good at finding solid players/coaches via the draft and free agency. Reid also seems to have a knack for knowing when an older player is finished, thus helping the Eagles avoid the 9er/Dallas syndrome of paying for what a player has done than rather what he will do.

Gibbs has done a solid job of adding players in 2 offseasons. But that isn't much of a book to go by. His teams of yesteryear were never the most talented + he didn't ever have the final say.

Edge Reid

2) In Game Coaching

In terms of excecution, Xs & Os, adjustments, etc it isn't even close. Gibbs is considered the best offensive mind ever in this regard while Reid has been less than impressive in this area - especially during the playoffs. In fact, the Eagles offense only started to play well recently. They were carried by their defense and special teams for half of Reid's tenure.

Edge Gibbs

3) Versatility

Again, a big edge to Gibbs. Gibbs has won with virtually every type of team possible. Smashmouth, passing/spread offenses, good QBs, average QBs, teams with great lines but less than spectacular skill players, and with different coaching staffs. Average defenses, different coordinators.

Reid hasn't really been forced to win with a lot of turnover though that can be a positive (as I'll mention later) but until he does - it remains unknown.

Edge Gibbs

4) Team Concept

I think that Reid is second only to Belicheck in preaching and executing his team concept above all else. He has convinced his QB that it's all about the uniform and it's trickled down to every player on the roster. Players who don't buy in are history and there aren't any exceptions. Gibbs believes in the same principles but I just don't think he makes it the #1 ingredient of the organization the way Reid does.

Edge Reid

5) Adjusting to Injuries/Player Losses

Philly has had their fair share of injuries over the last 6 seasons but they never seem to miss a beat. Even when McNabb went down in 02, they won with Koy freakin Detmer. They lost the heart and soul of their defense - Brian Dawkins for most of 03 - and were still rock solid. Gibbs is excellent in this area too but Reid might be the best in the league.

Edge Reid

6) Game Planning

Another Gibbs hallmark. He rarely had the most talented teams but he almost always had the best plan. He found a way to handle the great Bears defenses of the mid-80s and the Eagle defenses of the late 80s/early 90s when they were impervious to every other offense. His philosophy of passing to set up the run is still used in the league today.

Reid never found a way to get it going against the great Bucs defenses and New England's Defense was simply outmanned due to injuries in the Super Bowl. Still, they couldn't get it done. Strahan and the Giants defense used to simply manhandle the Eagles and won 8 or 9 straight though the Eagles finally got it together when New York waived the white flag in 2003 and 2004.

Edge Gibbs

7) Balls/Composure

You gotta have big ones to win titles. There are always several opportunites for a coach to show em during the course of a very long season. Sometimes it's starting a 3rd stringer on a hunch. Sometimes it's on onsides kick to start the game or half. Or perhaps it's cutting a Pro Bowler just to make an example out of him regardless of what it does to the cap.

There have only been a handful of teams that were soooooo physically dominant on one/both sides of the ball that all they had to do was show up. All that was required of the coach was not to do anything stupid. 85 Bears, 00 Ravens, Steelers of the 70s come to mind.

I don't think that either coach is exceptional in this aread but Reid has shown a degree of tightness that has a positive correlation with the magnitude of the game. You've heard the expression a million times: coaching not to lose. Reid has made a habit of it at the worst possible times. Gibbs is generally conservative but he knows when to double down. Reid isn't even sure what double down means.

Edge Gibbs

Final Score

Gibbs 4-3.

[Eagles_Legendz]

I think that is a fair comparison for the most part Dirk. I will not claim that Reid is better than Gibbs in game planning, but you sell him short there. He isn't good at in game adjustments, but he generally has a great game stategy going in. Also, you cite the Giants as proof of this, though Reid's record against the Giants is good. The majority of that "streak" came when Rhodes was the coach. Furthermore, Philadelphia outplayed NE in the first half of the SB, but lacked the key halftime adjustments that NE made. The gameplan was fine though. Other than that, I think it is a fair analysis.

[bubba9497]

- Reid has handled things this offseason compared to Gibbs;

well Reid has TO's holdout, and Simon's upset over his contract, and he was penalized some OTA days as well

Gibbs, dealt with Coles and Gardner, to the benefit of the team.. had a 96% appearance rate at workouts & OTA's, even though it cost him a couple OTA's... his plan to bring the fans closer to the team through the web is a brilliant move, and will only help bring back the fans that have been pushed away by bad play, and mismanagement the past few years. He has handled the ST situation very well, preventing it from being a major media distraction.

I can't see where Reid has done anything better than Gibbs.

- He said that Gibbs couldn't handle problem players;

when before or now? He had some doozies before and had championships, So far he has handled Coles, Gardner, Arrington, and Taylor very well IMO. and is turning a once individual oriented team into a single working unit... Team first attitude

- that Reid has a successful program in Philly;

Well Gibbs has three Rings in 4 attempts to Reid's 0 in 1, but if the person was comparing only tenure part 2... Gibbs has been back one season finishing 6-10 and close in several defeats. Reid's first season he was 5-11.... anyway you objectively look at it... the Guy is off his rocker here.

- that Reid was better at adjusting his offense, whereas Gibbs just gave up last year;

That is just plan nonsense, the fact that the offense improved greatly over the second half of the season in every stat is proof that Gibbs didn't "give up" on the offense. Where do some of the guys get this crap? After a 12 year absence what do they expect miracles? He improved as the season went on getting his groove back.

[SkinsFTW]

Originally posted by Eagles_Legendz

I'll agree with this as well.

I understand why Redskins fans would still take Gibbs, but I'd take Reid in '05 if I had my druthers, but an argument can be formed in either direction.

Well if I had a choice of taking a coach of any team it would surely be Gibbs over Reid. Gibbs has won with several different offenses while Reid has blown playoff games and the SB last year doing the same things over and over and over.

You can't say that Gibbs got lucky and faced the weaker teams either. Just look at who didn't get to the SB when the Redskins won them.

And I still believe that the Redskins would have taken the Raiders in a series 2 of 3, lol.

[f_trizzy]

What is there to debate? Until Andy can teach his team not to choke in big games then he isn't ever going to come close to Gibbs. Bottom Line: Gibbs 3 Pig Face 0

[mookie0720]

Better coach last year: Andy Reid

Over their careers: Um...Gibbs has 3 Super Bowls, I don't see how this is even a question.

[mookie0720]

He said that Gibbs couldn't handle problem players;

That's why Reid is ready to get rid of TO.

[bubba9497]

Originally posted by mookie0720

Over their careers: Um...Gibbs has 3 Super Bowls, I don't see how this is even a question.

Homer! :laugh:

:jk:

[SkinsFTW]

Somebody's going to have to post that Eagles trophy case again.

[3CardMonte]

Andy Reid is so smart....what with those onside kicks in dallas.

[Westbrook36]

Who did a better job coaching their respective team in 04? Just curious if there is any objectivity left in this thread....

[mooby]

yeah. obviously the eagles did a better job of coaching, but cmon. andy reid is like the modern day version of marv levy. maybe when andy reid has 3 or more super bowl trophies, then i'd consider him. until then, joe gibbs.

[Potato Sack]

Reid has proven to be one of the best coaches in the NFL over the last few years. But, what about the big show? He and McNabb BOTH choked.

A great coaches mark is one that is made during those big games. I don't think anyone can say he's better than Gibbs simply because of what Gibbs has proven. Gibbs will get this team back on track, no doubt. How many more years can Reid get his team to the Super Bowl and NOT choke? And if he does get there again and chokes again do we begin to compare these Eagles to the Bills in the early 90s? Chokers.

[Dallsux]

Originally posted by codeorama

Yes, Andy Reid is fatter than Joe Gibbs...

:laugh: Good one...:thumbsup:

[Dallsux]

Originally posted by Potato Sack

Reid has proven to be one of the best coaches in the NFL over the last few years. But, what about the big show? He and McNabb BOTH choked.

A great coaches mark is one that is made during those big games. I don't think anyone can say he's better than Gibbs simply because of what Gibbs has proven. Gibbs will get this team back on track, no doubt. How many more years can Reid get his team to the Super Bowl and NOT choke? And if he does get there again and chokes again do we begin to compare these Eagles to the Bills in the early 90s? Chokers.

The comparisons with the early '90's Bills has already been made. The funny thing is, the Bills will always come out on top of that. Why? Because unlike the Fecals, the Pills actually MADE IT to the Super Bowl 4 years in a row. The Facals have only been to 1, but they've lost a bunch of NFCC games!!! :laugh: :laugh:

:eaglesuck

[stevenaa]

") Team Concept

I think that Reid is second only to Belicheck in preaching and executing his team concept above all else. He has convinced his QB that it's all about the uniform and it's trickled down to every player on the roster. Players who don't buy in are history and there aren't any exceptions. Gibbs believes in the same principles but I just don't think he makes it the #1 ingredient of the organization the way Reid does.

Edge Reid

"

Good comparison, but I'd disagree with the above. Gibbs' teams were never the most talented. He won by getting the most out of his players and creating the team attitude. I think that he has preached building a "Team" more than anything. It is this very quality that brought him all of his past success.

Andy Reid is a very good coach. But until he wins a title, he won't make it up to the great category. Gibbs is firmly seated as a Great Coach. Now whether or not he still is a Great coach today is open for debate. I believe he'll find success as he always does and over the next few years will cement himself as one of, if not the greatest to ever coach the game.

[Monkart]

Originally posted by bubba9497

- Reid has handled things this offseason compared to Gibbs;

well Reid has TO's holdout, and Simon's upset over his contract, and he was penalized some OTA days as well

Gibbs, dealt with Coles and Gardner, to the benefit of the team.. had a 96% appearance rate at workouts & OTA's, even though it cost him a couple OTA's... his plan to bring the fans closer to the team through the web is a brilliant move, and will only help bring back the fans that have been pushed away by bad play, and mismanagement the past few years. He has handled the ST situation very well, preventing it from being a major media distraction.

I can't see where Reid has done anything better than Gibbs.

- He said that Gibbs couldn't handle problem players;

when before or now? He had some doozies before and had championships, So far he has handled Coles, Gardner, Arrington, and Taylor very well IMO. and is turning a once individual oriented team into a single working unit... Team first attitude

- that Reid has a successful program in Philly;

Well Gibbs has three Rings in 4 attempts to Reid's 0 in 1, but if the person was comparing only tenure part 2... Gibbs has been back one season finishing 6-10 and close in several defeats. Reid's first season he was 5-11.... anyway you objectively look at it... the Guy is off his rocker here.

- that Reid was better at adjusting his offense, whereas Gibbs just gave up last year;

GIBBS never gave up the last 5 minutes of a SB !!

That is just plan nonsense, the fact that the offense improved greatly over the second half of the season in every stat is proof that Gibbs didn't "give up" on the offense. Where do some of the guys get this crap? After a 12 year absence what do they expect miracles? He improved as the season went on getting his groove back.

One thing to point out about the lost of OTA's is none of our players complained, Hell the union determined that they were too rough from watching Redskins TV, even over our teams union reps claims they weren't. But obviously the Eagles players complained about theirs, because that's the usual way the union finds out.

[Monkart]

Originally posted by Westbrook36

Well, that's actually a pretty hilarious line. :laugh:

Reid and Levens both have rings, so the statement, albeit funny, is incorrect.

That would depend on where their rings are kept, good chance they are not in Philly!!!

[Art]

Originally posted by Westbrook36

Who did a better job coaching their respective team in 04? Just curious if there is any objectivity left in this thread....

Unfortunately for you WB, the question you act is not at all a measure for an answer as to which coach is better. Certainly the expectation might be that Reid, a man who's been in the league over the last couple of decades who's been a head coach for a number of years, coaching the same bunch of guys in general, might be somewhat ahead of ANY coach who'd not been around the league at all for many years, who's coaching a batch of guys, none who have played for him (until Brown was brought back) who didn't even have a playbook until the end of March, who had to relearn his own system to teach it, who had to retrain his mind to deal with the speed of the game, etc.

Most people would coach better than that coach.

That wouldn't make them better coaches.

That would simply make their circumstances such that reasonably they could rarely BE outcoached by the other guy. The sad thing is you think this is a measure here. It's not. It's the expectation. It might even be so for a little longer. But, Reid is not even in the same arena as Gibbs when it comes to coaching.

There's NOTHING Reid has proven to be better at than Gibbs as a head coach. Whether Gibbs can get his legs back and fully recapture all his skills is an open question. But, a guy like Reid, who is so limited in his ability to adjust in game, and so tied to a system it takes him YEARS before he finally does the obvious to cater to his best player, will never be in the league of the great, adapatable coaches like Gibbs.

Few coaches will though, so, there's no shame in that.

[OldTownFan]

Judging by all the Super Bowl rings on Reid's fat fingers, Im going to have to go with butterfingers.....oh wait....

[OldTownFan]

I mean Reid has won the big games when it mattered countless times, with different quarterbacks to boot, plus, he is already a hall of famer right?